Help for Hard drive hard dog

[Rottielover]

Hi guys,
In light of all that has been happening around the forum, I thought I might be able to make a few suggestions that have saved Harley as well as I.
Harleys drives are very high
prey-3
chase-4
protect drive-4
dominance-4
food- 5
rank drive- 3
guard drive-4
pack drive -2
retrieve drive- 4
fight drive- 4( he will not flight)
play drive-5
activity drive-5
survival drive-4( will not flight)
tracking scent drive - 1

This is from 1-5 5 being the highest.
This this in play, I was then able to search for help based on what he needed most...His attitude problem...prey and chase drive, and guard drive.
He no longer plays tug with a jute, we now retrieve with it.
He has down time every night, quiet time. I say when it is over.
We are now training for sled pulling for the winter.
We NILF for everything little thing. Including water.
Around where I live it was extremely hard to find help based on what I am going through. So I have asked for outside my country help.....
He is no longer able to visit people...he tries to challenge, so when people are over, he is in his crate. Until I am comfortable with him out of it.


Everything that I am doing is making very slow progress, but we are getting there.
As for dog to dog aggression, we make one little step forward, something happens, and we are worse than when started.
He has been bit on many occassions. Dumb owners not having control of their dogs. Harley on leash of course....
My course of action with this. Is to practice our focus command. He loves looking at me. LOL
So here is alittle update so far...

[pitgrrl]

Perhaps I'm missing something from earlier posts, but where/how were the points for drives determined?

[Rottielover]

A trainer out in the US, gave me a long list of drives that all dogs have.
She said to take each drive and evaluate your dog based on what you see every day.
I did....I am not a professional, but I know the hard ships I have been through with him.
I gave her my results based on the numbers.
Gave her a few scenerios. She came to that conclusion.
Also a OB trainer here in montreal. But she is only an OB trainer, but we have been working together since Harley was a pup.
Also my own research.

[Joey.E.CockersMommy]

Based on what you said - and my own observation of Joey this is what I would put his drives at

prey-1
chase- 2
protect drive-3
dominance-4
food- 5 (Joey lives for food)
rank drive- 4 - Joey thinks he is top dog
guard drive-3
pack drive -2
retrieve drive- 1 (meaning he will fetch once and take the item and keep it )
fight drive- 4 He is usually the first to be aggressive :sad:
play drive-4
activity drive-3
survival drive-4 not sure about this one
tracking scent drive - 4 (cause his nose is always to the ground )

Joey isnt good with other dogs - like you said its progress then your set back again. Joey is fine from a distance - even like a foot - and then seems fine - but has soon as the sniffing each other starts then Joey retaliates and gets aggressive and that is with most dogs especially males - well all males, he likes some females - but I get nervous with him to close to other dogs - because of his Jekyll and Hyde behavior.

[pitgrrl]

It's an interesting list. I came across a web site a while ago that had a sort of quiz on your dog's drives, same idea basically, to help you figure out the best way to train. I wish I could find it again......

[phoenix]

rl, thanks for the post. very interesting. you're doing a great job with Harley, way to go!

[Prin]

ok... for Boo...
prey-2
chase- 5
protect drive-3
dominance-1 normally, 5 with intact males
food- 2
rank drive- 1
guard drive-1, 4 for bones
pack drive -3
retrieve drive- 3? He goes to get it, but leaves it there and doesn't come back.
fight drive- 1, 5 if it's an intact male
play drive- 2 (gettin' old)
activity drive- 2 (gettin' old)
survival drive- not sure what that means, but I don't think it's a big concern...
tracking scent drive - 1, unless it's an intact male, then 5

So he's pretty good. But there's no ADD, separation anxiety/anxiety in general or selective hearing on that list...

Jemma:
prey-3
chase- 5
protect drive-4
dominance-4.5
food- 4
rank drive- 5, but not with us...
guard drive- 1, but for food, maybe 4
pack drive - 5
retrieve drive- 10
fight drive- 3.5
play drive- 4 (older than Boo, but younger than Boo, if you know what I mean)
activity drive- 4
survival drive- still don't know what it means, but she's probably higher than Boo
tracking scent drive - 0. She can't smell squat.

Funny because Jemma's numbers are higher, but Boo is soooo much harder to train. Soooo much. Because Jemma's pack drive is higher, I guess, she tends to respect pack order and seek pack order a lot more. Boo is far more independent and aloof. You can dominate him all you want, NILF him, anything, and he just doesn't care. He doesn't care to be the alpha, he just doesn't care. He would rather be off on his own, chasing rabbits.

[Rottielover]

The trainer in the states told me to think this through very carefully based on the issues I have with him. It has helped me realize I no longer has that docile dog I once owned, and for me to wake up and act appropriate.
As for the pack drive. He only submits to me and my daughter. He knows he can not get away with anything with us, based on leadership I have done with him.
Some stupid person on another board told me harley was fearful....LOL, little do they know

[Hunter's_owner]

Originally Posted by Prin

ok... for Boo...

retrieve drive- 3? He goes to get it, but leaves it there and doesn't come back.


So he's pretty good. But there's no ADD, separation anxiety/anxiety in general or selective hearing on that list...

Well again Prin, I wonder if Hunter and Boo are brothers. This sounds exactly like him

For Hunter:
prey-2
chase- 5
protect drive-3
dominance-1
food- 2
rank drive- 1
guard drive-1
pack drive -3
retrieve drive- 3? He goes to get it, but leaves it there and doesn't come back. (copied from Prin )
fight drive- 1,
play drive- 5
activity drive- 3
survival drive- not sure what that means either, but Hunter is very cautious
tracking scent drive - 3

Cassie:
prey-4
chase- 5
protect drive-5
dominance-5
food- 5
rank drive- 5
guard drive-5
pack drive -5
retrieve drive- 5
fight drive- 1 (I think she would like to fight, but she is too scared,
jk)
play drive- 3
activity drive- 3
survival drive- not sure what that means
tracking scent drive - 5 (she is a beagle!!!)

Well Cassie's are all higher than Hunter's, but she is much harder to train. But I think this has more tho do with the fact that she a beagle...she is very stubborn