ON NOW...No Country For Animals...Gobal Montreal

[cassiek]

Originally Posted by Gammachi

Why you should really become a vegan, or make a serious effort to consume less meat, dairy, eggs:

1. Animal welfare: Organic farm animals don't get slaughtered or transported any differently than factory farm animals (Maybe not, but they are generally raised with the animal's welfare and the environment in mind. A good alternative, IMO, and more realistic for some individuals then becoming a vegan).

2. Our health: Plant based protein is far better than animal protein in many ways, see this documentary: http://www.youtube.com/user/heylover.../0/yResuAasCnA

3. Environmental: read up on UN report here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ree-diet/print (Yes, it certainly is a fact that livestock are "hard" on the environment in regards to climate change. But so is on-road transportation, household biofuel, household fossil fuel, waste/landfill, power, other forms of agriculture etc. We need to come together and look at and criticize several of our "ways" of being as a species that are both harmful and neglectful to the environment, it is not a simple one-dimensional problem.)

4. Personal: Follow your conscience. Live with integrity. You gain positive energy in making a difference in so many living beings' lives if you stop contributing to their suffering.

5. It's just easier for you to promote animal welfare to others if you don't eat them yourselves. (I tend to disagree with this. I am a huge animal welfare advocate, but I can do so and still consume meat.)

6. Why a pig is food and a dog is pampered? There's no reason. They all feel pain, sadness, suffering, helplessness, despair all the same, just as humans do.

Simple and valid points, but not a simple answer. I've harped on this subject enough, so at risk of sounding like a broken record, I won't repeat my same old arguments. This is a multi-dimensional concern and problem world-wide. Progress can be made, but let us do so being as informed and educated as possible.

[Golden Girls]

Originally Posted by cassiek

Simple and valid points, but not a simple answer. I've harped on this subject enough, so at risk of sounding like a broken record, I won't repeat my same old arguments. This is a multi-dimensional concern and problem world-wide. Progress can be made, but let us do so being as informed and educated as possible.

It is a very simple answer - ask anyone trying to make a difference but at the risk of sounding like a broken record myself I too won't repeat but please Cassiek when you don't have an personal agenda meaning you don't profit off of animals (you sell animal feed to farms) then I'll respect what you have to say on this topic otherwise it's enough with the "This is a multi -dimensional concern and problem world-wide" We know that, specifically being the reason it's even being aired ... so that people WILL NOW make educated choices after viewing for themselves the horrific life animals suffer *shrug*

[cassiek]

Originally Posted by Golden Girls

It is a very simple answer - ask anyone trying to make a difference but at the risk of sounding like a broken record myself I too won't repeat but please Cassiek when you don't have an personal agenda meaning you don't profit off of animals (you sell animal feed to farms) then I'll respect what you have to say on this topic otherwise it's enough with the "This is a multi -dimensional concern and problem world-wide" We know that, specifically being the reason it's even being aired ... so that people WILL NOW make educated choices after viewing for themselves the horrific life animals suffer *shrug*

And I can certainly appreciate trying to make a difference - I am just stating that it's not as simple as becoming a vegan and not eating meat - what about all the byproducts we consume on a daily basis that come from slaughtered animals? What about the food we feed our pets? I am just simply stating that it's a multi-dimensional issue and one that both the government, farmers, and consumers will need to work on together to achieve the end goal. As has been stated before, if consumers want to demand that their meat is raised with certain standards, they have to be willing to pay for it.

And for the record, I don't have a personal agenda. Your choice is your choice, I just try and provide a different perspective. Alot of people don't think much past the surface... without going too in depth, an example is most people want to demand that layer hens are cage free. I have no issues against this, but remind people that it does cost more to the grower to raise them this way (as was pointed out in this documentary), and that the consumer must be willing to pay more for that dozen eggs they pick up in the grocery store, and most are not. If anything, I am in a position that I have the opportunity to see how much of the industry is run, something most consumers do not and I am a consumer myself. I would never preach or say that the industry is something it is or is not, I just get weary when people make uninformed decisions based on an ad by PETA, or an article in the news, or one simple source for that matter. IMO the best way to make educated, smart decisions are to do your research. I encourage people to visit farms, slaughter plants, etc. and really learn where their food comes from and form their own opinions.

I am allowed my opinion too and if you have a problem with it, you don't need to comment on it. So enough of the "but at the risk of sounding like a broken record myself I too won't repeat ".

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by cassiek

I am just stating that it's not as simple as becoming a vegan and not eating meat - what about all the byproducts we consume on a daily basis that come from slaughtered animals? What about the food we feed our pets?

This isn't an ALL or NOTHING issue. How about starting with eating LESS meat, and ensuring the meat you do eat comes from humanely raised sources? While veganism may not be everyones choice, there is no reason to be eating meat every single day. And especially not fast food meat. Those cheap burgers have a huge cost in the bigger picture.

There is a book I think you really need to read. Actually I think everybody on the planet should read it. It's called "Eating Animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer. Extremely well written and well researched, with perspectives from all sides of the feed animal industry.

[cassiek]

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

This isn't an ALL or NOTHING issue. How about starting with eating LESS meat, and ensuring the meat you do eat comes from humanely raised sources? While veganism may not be everyones choice, there is no reason to be eating meat every single day. And especially not fast food meat. Those cheap burgers have a huge cost in the bigger picture.

There is a book I think you really need to read. Actually I think everybody on the planet should read it. It's called "Eating Animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer. Extremely well written and well researched, with perspectives from all sides of the feed animal industry.

I agree sugarcatmom, that is isn't an all or nothing issue, and personally I try to consume less meat, especially red, as much as possible in my own diet. Despite what many may think here, I am huge advocate for the welfare of livestock animals, and am very concerned especially when it comes to the impact that raising livestock have on the environment.

All I am trying to say is that it is a extremely complex issue, and it will take the cooperation of many individuals and organizations. Change will be slow-coming, and I think change is needed, I am just pointing out that the consumer needs to be aware that it comes at a cost and they must be willing to pay for it.

I am entitled to my opinion and to have it be respected, even though some of you may not agree with me. I'm not the enemy here simply because I work in the livestock industry, nor have I ever stated that it doesn't have it's faults. I am also a consumer, and I have had the opportunity to really see "behind the scenes" and think I can offer a perspective many people can't simply because they don't see where their food comes from. And if I was given the chance, I could really offer some "food for thought". I don't deserve to be backed into the corner and criticized, simply because I am throwing some different ideas out there.

I am not going to turn this into a thread that becomes 20+ pages long bantering back and forth. No sense beating a dead horse. If any of you wish to have a civil and mature conversation on this topic, you can PM me and I would be more than willing to provide research and information that I have found through the course of my university studies and career. If anyone is in the S. Alberta area and would like to know where their chicken and turkey come from, I would be more than happy to show them through the process of raising chickens right from the hatchery to the processors.

FYI, I have read this book along with many other's on the subject. I spent four years in school learning about all the good, the bad, and the ugly of this industry. It is a wonderful book, and does offer many "voices" in this industry to be heard.

Cheers,

Cassie

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by cassiek

All I am trying to say is that it is a extremely complex issue, and it will take the cooperation of many individuals and organizations. Change will be slow-coming, and I think change is needed, I am just pointing out that the consumer needs to be aware that it comes at a cost and they must be willing to pay for it.

Absolutely. It would be extremely costly and many families are barely making it by as it goes. Does this mean that transportation can't be a bit more humane?? Not sure, I am not in the business, but I am hoping that it wouldn't be that much more of a cost. Canada is all about the almighty dollar, and not quality of life, for humans or animals.

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by cassiek

If any of you wish to have a civil and mature conversation on this topic,

I thought this was civil and mature.

Here is my point: the strongest vote anyone can make is with their dollars. By purchasing factory farmed meat, you are essentially saying you support that system. The consumer is the most essential cog in the wheel of industrial agriculture and if people stopped buying these cruelty-filled products, the system would change. Yes, it's that simple. Instead of having cheap industrial meat 7 days a week, how about buying local, humane products 3 days a week? (this isn't directed at you personally, this is just a general observation) North Americans have to reavaluate their purchasing patterns when it comes to food. Out of all the industrialized nations, we spend the lowest percentage of our income on food. I wonder what percentage is spent on cars and tvs and electronic gadgets? This attitude has got to change, and documentaries like this one (and Food Inc, etc) are a step in the right direction.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

I thought this was civil and mature.

Here is my point: the strongest vote anyone can make is with their dollars. ...The consumer is the most essential cog

Unless the gov't bails them out like GM or Dodge , sorry couldn't resist that comment. Nothing against your post, I totally agree with you.

[cassiek]

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

I thought this was civil and mature.

Here is my point: the strongest vote anyone can make is with their dollars. By purchasing factory farmed meat, you are essentially saying you support that system. The consumer is the most essential cog in the wheel of industrial agriculture and if people stopped buying these cruelty-filled products, the system would change. Yes, it's that simple. Instead of having cheap industrial meat 7 days a week, how about buying local, humane products 3 days a week? (this isn't directed at you personally, this is just a general observation) North Americans have to reavaluate their purchasing patterns when it comes to food. Out of all the industrialized nations, we spend the lowest percentage of our income on food. I wonder what percentage is spent on cars and tvs and electronic gadgets? This attitude has got to change, and documentaries like this one (and Food Inc, etc) are a step in the right direction.

I agree with you 100%, my only observation is that quite often (and no, not all the time) many consumers make demands but do not want to pay the price it comes at to raise these animals in such conditions. I agree, we should all be a little bit more proactive and involved in where our food comes from, and to chase the almighty dollar and only want to buy cheap meat... well you get what you pay for.

Anyways, I have said enough on the subject.

Peace.

[Golden Girls]

There is alot of info re our Agri-Biz and this video's message isn't about veganism nor vegetarianism, it's exposing animal cruelty both in puppy mills and factory farming.

With puppy mills we advocate to not purchase pets from pet stores. Why, because the inbred/overbred parents of all these sick puppies are forced to live horrific lives caged forever in dark damn cold/hot sheds stacked on top of each other with bare minimum food/water and no vet care until they die. Just sickening, right? Well for farm animals it's even worse.

We shouldn't just care because their dogs or cats and that most won't be eaten. We should care because their animals - whether raised for food or snuggles they have a right to be respected, live with dignity and free from pain

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

I thought this was civil and mature.

Here is my point: the strongest vote anyone can make is with their dollars. By purchasing factory farmed meat, you are essentially saying you support that system. The consumer is the most essential cog in the wheel of industrial agriculture and if people stopped buying these cruelty-filled products, the system would change. Yes, it's that simple. Instead of having cheap industrial meat 7 days a week, how about buying local, humane products 3 days a week? (this isn't directed at you personally, this is just a general observation) North Americans have to reavaluate their purchasing patterns when it comes to food. Out of all the industrialized nations, we spend the lowest percentage of our income on food. I wonder what percentage is spent on cars and tvs and electronic gadgets? This attitude has got to change, and documentaries like this one (and Food Inc, etc) are a step in the right direction.