Puppies & Socialization Critical Periods - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans

Beaglemom · #1 February 7th, 2006, 01:02 PM

I know that puppies of toy breeds should only leave their mother at the age of 12 weeks. Reputable breeders would never allow them to go any sooner. I can't believe how many people advertise puppies of many toy breeds "ready to go" at 8 weeks!

I also know that the critical period for socialization in puppies is between the ages of 4 weeks and 12 weeks. During this time they should be exposed to different people, sounds, textures, etc. so that they will be well adjusted adult dogs.

Now my question is, that if this time period is critical, will a puppy who is with their mother and littermates until the age of 12 weeks get the socialization necessary? How will they react to bigger dogs and different types of people and situations?

StaceyB · #2 February 7th, 2006, 02:10 PM

It can be harder for the puppies if they miss this time.

Beaglemom · #3 February 7th, 2006, 02:18 PM

That is what I thought. So how can we be sure that if we are purchasing a puppy from a breeder at 12 weeks that they are well socialized? I would hope that a reputable breeder would expose their puppies to all types of situations, but they may not be exposed to larger dogs or all the other things that going to their permanent home and to a socialization class would.

We rescued our late dog Blacky at 6 months from an abused home and we had to resocialize him at this age. He was scared of everything, including birds! It wasn't easy, but with a lot of patience on our part we were able to make him a much more confident dog and well adjusted.

Prin · #4 February 7th, 2006, 02:21 PM

I think it's more about establishing your place in the universe. Dogs that are taken out too early tend to be either too fearful or too aggressive, so it would make sense that the longer they have with the litter, the more they are taught by the mother about how to be in social settings. Things like bite pressure and stuff are taught in the litter and a dog taken away too soon would not be able to tell how hard he's biting without teaching him.

That said, a dog who is in the litter too long supposedly has a harder time bonding with humans.

I always heard the critical period was up to 8 weeks...

Prin · #5 February 7th, 2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beaglemom

That is what I thought. So how can we be sure that if we are purchasing a puppy from a breeder at 12 weeks that they are well socialized? I would hope that a reputable breeder would expose their puppies to all types of situations, but they may not be exposed to larger dogs or all the other things that going to their permanent home and to a socialization class would.

At 12 weeks though, they're still very moldable. You just have to overdose them with whatever you think they need to be comfortable with. I mean look at these two guys I have right now. In a week they've changed so much just being around us and Jemma and Boo. No socialization when they're tiny isn't the end of the world. You just have to compensate.

StaceyB · #6 February 7th, 2006, 02:31 PM

You can't be sure. Actually very few breeders socialize their pups with things outside of their home.
There are a few things that affect how social a young pup will be.
How social mom was.
A pup that left too early and didn't learn important social skills from mom and siblings.
A pup that has stayed too long and somewhat missed this social time.
A pup that goes to their new home at 8 wks but does not get socialized by them.

It doesn't mean that they won't become social but it usually takes a lot more work because they missed that fear period.
Fear of the unknown

Socializing is not with what they know but with what they don't know and it will be everything they see, hear, smell and do(meet) in their lifetime.

Socializing is one of the most important areas of their overall health. Socializing or lack of affects all areas of their life, behaviour and training.

Beaglemom · #7 February 7th, 2006, 03:04 PM

I agree with both of you 100% Dogs are very adaptable animals and when they are this young they are extremely impressionable and very willing to learn. My dog Blacky missed this early socialization period and it was harder to help him overcome his fears, but it was definitely possible, but with a lot of hard work and patience with all those involved. Being that he had been abused made it even harder. But, with a lot of training, he did overcome his fears and did become a much more confident dog. The work was worth it.

I thought that I would bring this topic up because there seems to be different opinions as to when it is the best time for puppies to leave their mothers and when it is considered too early or too late.

I'm also a firm believer that socializing is something that should be done constantly, everyday of your dogs' life, not just during this critical time period as dogs, like humans, are constantly learning and need the mental stimulation.

Beetlecat · #8 February 7th, 2006, 10:12 PM

I got my dog at 10 weeks. I socialized him like nuts until he was about 9 months old (he loved meeting people and getting petted), and I got a summer job that involved moving into a shack in the woods up north for 4 months.

It was during this time that he got human agressive. Then, upon coming back to the city, I did not really socialize him, too caught up in my own concerns and not really thinking his aggression was anything major (it wasn't directed at me after all) and I figured it was just a 'phase'.

Now, it is hard to tell that he was ever socialized with humans at all. When leashed, he gets scared and goes into an automatic 'get them before they can get me' attitude with strangers.

So, IMO, there is no 'critical' socialization period. Even if you do everything you should at the beginning, it means nothing unless you continue it forever.

Same as anything. If a person wants to be in shape, they do not just exercise for a month and expect to stay fit for the rest of the year while they lay on the couch.

mona_b · #9 February 7th, 2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beaglemom

Now my question is, that if this time period is critical, will a puppy who is with their mother and littermates until the age of 12 weeks get the socialization necessary? How will they react to bigger dogs and different types of people and situations?

In my experience I say yes.

My breeder didn't let her pups go till they were 12 weeks old.And I am talking about GSD's.

Were they being socialized up untill this age?Definately.

They continued to be around their moms.The kids/grandkids were forever playing with them.They were around friends and family(and their dogs)They were around the other retired family dogs.She even started their basic training..Just a few commands.She even started them on leash walking.

My current and 2 of my past dogs all came from her.

I never had a problem with them when I brought them home at this age.They were so easy to train.They were highly socialized.New people,other dogs/pups,cats,sights and sounds.

And I must have done a good job with them.My current GSD made it on the K9 force.....

Quote:

Even if you do everything you should at the beginning, it means nothing unless you continue it forever.

Soooo true........

StaceyB · #10 February 7th, 2006, 11:28 PM

Mona as you mentioned your breeder did socialize her pups, a great breeder.

Many breeders, even good ones don't get much socializing when they are with the breeder. It is these pups that don't benefit from staying to 12 wks.

Dogs like people need to socialize throughout their life to stay social but if they start later and miss these important times it just takes a lot more work. It is not impossible in most cases but it is definitely a lot more work for all of you.

As a young pup they will go through two very important times. Most people are aware of the first one but the second happens at adolescence. If you miss either one you may still end up with social issues.

In my opinion puppies should be socialized with absolutely everything possible, even things that are not going to be a part of their regular life. For example. If your lifestyle doesn't include kids in daily life you don't want to exclude them just because they are not a part of your life at the time. Your puppy is going to live for 10 plus years and there will be a time when they will be around kids, neighbours, grandkids, walks, etc. This may be a problem if you didn't socialize them with kids.

mona_b · #11 February 8th, 2006, 12:06 AM

Yes,she was definately a great breeder......

Trust me when I say I know many more just like her..They take the time to socialize them as much as possible..If they didn't,then I can see no reason for them to wait till they are 12 weeks before they go to their new homes.They would be sending them at 8 weeks..

It's up to the new owners to continue socializing the new pup.

Beaglemom · #12 February 8th, 2006, 08:49 AM

Mona, your breeder sounds like an awesome breeder! Wish more where like that.

I agree that socialization is a life long process and not just a few weeks early in the animals' life, but it has been proven that there are critical stages during the dog's development that are crucial in order for it to grow into a well adjusted adult. If certain things are missed during this time, you can end up with a dog that finds it very difficult to live in our society.

StaceyB · #13 February 8th, 2006, 09:11 AM

Yes, you are very right.

mona_b · #14 February 8th, 2006, 10:27 PM

Yes you are right Beaglemom.

BUT,yes there is a but....

Remember that the majority of socializing takes place after the pup has had the second set of shots...And if I recall,that's at 12 weeks old.And the last at 16 weeks which includes the Rabies.

And we also tell that to new puppy owners on here....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beaglemom

Wish more where like that.

Oh there are...