pleease read this, all, and then help me! people were i'm abbusive, im not!

[khalian]

khalian
Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2

severe peeing in house problem - please help

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright, im going to break this down as best I can: I have a 4 year old beagle named Sam. As simply as I can put it, he pees everywhere. All the time. If you yell at him for any reason, he pees. If you touch him and surprise him in the slightest, he pees. If you approach him in any way, he's probably going to pee. Anytime discipline is attempted, he pees more. And more. And more. I dont even see how its possible for him to have this much urine. Now, because of this habit, my younger puppy has started to slowly adopt this same behavior.

some other info:
he's 4, not a puppy.
we've essentially given up on dicipline because he'll just pee. It's ridiculous!!
also, my puppy, Baby, is one year old, and doesn't just pee like Sam, she only pee's if she knows she did something wrong, and knows you're going to punish her


Please help me before i go nuts!!




khalian
View Public Profile
Find all posts by khalian
Add khalian to Your Contacts

#2 Yesterday, 06:03 PM
t.pettet
Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: lanark, Ont.
Posts: 987

severe peeing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It sounds as though you use extreme discipline and even physical abuse to train your dogs rather than patient, positive reinforcement so unless you both change your methods both dogs will continue to submissively pee due to fear.


t.pettet
View Public Profile
Find all posts by t.pettet
Add t.pettet to Your Contacts
Arcade
Challenge t.pettet in the Arcade!

#3 Yesterday, 10:05 PM
luckypenny
Doggie Wench Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Philippe-de-Laprairie, Qc
Posts: 5,477

It's a little obvious, don't you think? Your methods of punishment obviously correlate to the submissive urination. T.pettet is correct, your behavior is at the root of your problem...your dogs fear you. That's not training, that's abuse.
__________________
"Where there is an open mind, there will always be a frontier." -Dorothea Brande

"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant


luckypenny
View Public Profile
Find all posts by luckypenny
Add luckypenny to Your Contacts
Arcade
Challenge luckypenny in the Arcade!

#4 Yesterday, 11:34 PM
DoubleRR
Investigative researcher Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 158

Yes, your dogs are peeing submissively, and this has become a very difficult issue to change. They need their confidence built carefully before this problem has a chance to be fixed, and any punishment or raised voices will undo anything you try. Yes, you have a real problem, but there is no quick fix. It is not the dogs that are in the wrong here, although I know you do not want to hear that.
__________________
We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are.


DoubleRR
View Public Profile
Find all posts by DoubleRR
Add DoubleRR to Your Contacts
Arcade
Challenge DoubleRR in the Arcade!

#5 Today, 12:44 AM
lUvMyLaB<3
I'm a softy Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brandon, mb, Canada
Posts: 805

it will take 10 good puppys to undo every bad dog u have done, meaning long process! The pup did not learn that from the dog but from fear from punishment. How sad for a puppy to be afraid of you. Your statement of your bf killing ur dog scares me! Please get some help. Work on trust building exercises, and knock the punishments off, please. You will never get anywhere with a pup througg anger.
__________________
I prefer my people to wear fur..
Gonzaga's Lady Perdita "Lady" CKC Yellow Lab
Gucci someones designer dog needed a designer name
Tickles Tortie cat the owns my daughter
Princess most recent foster failure


lUvMyLaB<3
View Public Profile
Find all posts by lUvMyLaB<3
Add lUvMyLaB<3 to Your Contacts
Arcade
Challenge lUvMyLaB<3 in the Arcade!

#6 Today, 06:44 AM
khalian
Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by t.pettet
It sounds as though you use extreme discipline and even physical abuse to train your dogs rather than patient, positive reinforcement so unless you both change your methods both dogs will continue to submissively pee due to fear.

first i want to say, that i dont abuse my dogs!!! the most i've ever done to them was slap them on the ass, and yell "no!"
secound, the "by boyfriend's gunna kill them" thing, was an overexageration! everyone says it, everyone!!
third, if my dogs were abused before i got them, then i'm sorry for them, but you guys have to stop assuming that all ownes are bad, if i was abussive, i would've thrown them on the street, and not have even bothered with this website!!!
and forth, my dogs love me! they're not scared of me, it's not my fault that they're scared of loud voices, and, i love both my dogs evenly!!
and i hate it that almost everyone who offered help were accusing me of abuse!!!

i love all animals, more than proubably any of you! i saved my dogs from the streats, and Sam, i save from some man, who i found on the road, and i paid 300 dollars for him! so back off people!!!

also, i dont know what type of people you guys beel with, being vets of what ever you guys are, but not everyone abbuses ther animals!

-Catrina.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


please help me!!!

[14+kitties]

No one is accusing you. We are reading your own words....

To start turning this around so your dogs can be happy, healthy, productive members of the family........

Stop yelling.
Stop smacking the dogs on the ass and yelling.
Use positive reinforcements.
Praise, praise, praise.
Ignore bad behaviour, reinforce good behaviour.
Take them outside to use the bathroom on a regular basis. As in ever half hour until you get them in good habits.
Exercise, exercise, exercise.
Find a good behaviour class for both dogs and you and your boyfriend.

When people try to help you on a pet site please listen. Most of the people who tried are trainers, rescuers, and have multiple dogs in their own home who do not submissively pee. They know more about dogs in their little finger than most people know in their whole body. Please listen to them. You came for help. Calm down and let them help.

As people have said ... it is not the dogs' fault. It is you and your boyfriend. So how about you take your dogs that you love all animals, more than proubably any of you! and try to help them by changing your behaviour.

And lastly... No, not everyone says "he's gonna kill them" when talking about their pets. In fact, I know no one on here that would say it.

[aslan]

have to say i agree with the others, you are the one who gave the impression that you abuse your animals. Any form of smacking and or yelling at them IS abuse. There are so many other ways to teach your pet without showing them anger or teaching them fear. And yup i'm with 14+ can't say i know anyone who says " gonna kill my dog".

Find a good trainer who teaches positive re-inforcement. And you and your bf both need to learn this technic. Just wondering, does your bf know you posted on a website that he is going to kill your pets.

[khalian]

okay, just because i drought my boyfriend up, doesn't meen that he's even around, i'm the only one around... so, what can i do... and how is it the dogs will learn if you ignore there bad things, wont they keep doing it because they got away with it?

[DoubleRR]

Ok, let's look at this from a dog's point of view[[or at least as close as we have come to understanding that.] The dog is fearful--perhaps just had enough bad experiences with noise to be so. If the dog arrives at your house pre-disposed to be fearful, and has always been a submissive pee'er, you have huge issues to overcome.
In a dog's world, if you cower and pee, all other canines know you are willing to stay on the very bottom of the social ladder, are no threat in any way, so you need not be harmed. When your dogs are scared, they are using an ingrained canine instinct to show you or the noisey thing that they are no threat.
The only way to overcome that is to make them not afraid. Any form of punishment for the peeing is reinforcing the peeing--more fear, the harder they are trying to let you know they are no threat. Do you understand the never ending circle this creates?

So, all you can do is ignore the bad and reward the good. Step by step--crate train so they cannot pee anywhere in the house when not supervised. Take out first thing in the morning, after every meal or play period etc. just as if they were pups. Stay with them, use a command for peeing, and praise when they do so. It will take some time for them to connect the peeing with the command, but if you repeat "Good pee [or whatever word you use] WHILE they are peeing, it very much helps!!

Do not make a fuss over them when you arrive home--come in and ignore them until you have been home awhile, then when they finally sit down calmly, say a quick but enthusiastic "Good Dog" and then back to ignore. This will result in a lower level of excitement and less liklihood of peeing. Remember--they do not think the peeing is wrong, and cannot understand why you punish them. If a dog is stopped in mid pee, taken outside and encouraged to pee, and then successfully pees outside, you reward them with loads of praise.

On top of that, every time they pee, the lingering scent of it is in the house, signaling them that it is ok to pee there. Only an enzyme based preparation like Nature's Miracle will eradicate those odors--cleaners will not--the dog will always smell it unless enzymes eat the bacteria that cause the odor--you cannot mask it enough for them with other cleaners. Good luck!

[aslan]

its not legit kill!!!! its an over exageration!!!!!!! you're saying that, when really angry, that u've never said: "im gunna kill them"..."You're so dead"... ??

and how is it slapping on the butt is abbuse, please tell me!nd if that's abuse, is smacking your kids butts abuse too?


(I dont have kids.)



please, explain, this to me...


and my boyfriend isnt really around the dogs, only me... and you've never yelled "NO!" to your dogs, and smacked them on the butt?


i will respond to this message in open forum...I don't know about the country you live in, but in Canada hitting your child is abuse and you can be charged for it.

And no i don't yell at my dogs and then smack them. It doesn't teach them that i am leader only that i'm mean and to be feared.

If your boyfriend isn't around then why even make the statement about him. You are getting upset and defensive because the members here are responding to statements you yourself made.

So start fresh, your having a peeing issue with your two dogs, don't yell or smack them, don't rub their nose in it. Go to a trainer with experience with submissive peeing and learn how to correct the problem.
a[/COLOR]

[ownedbycats]

First, you don't give them to opportunity to repeat bad behavior (for instance: stealing things from counters = YOU remove everything from reach and keep it reach.) Dogs repeat what they are rewarded for, if they aren't rewarded they don't repeat a behavior. Now, this is where it gets tricky. What you consider a reward and what a dog considers a reward can be two totally different things. Another example: A dog jumping on you is getting rewarded by your reaction. there are two scenarios here. Either every so often someone will pet and make a fuss over him, so he does it every time on to off chance that this will be the time he gets fussed over. Or he gets shoved away which you wouldn't consider this rewarding. The dog however sees this as a signal to escalate and roughhouse with you, which to the dog means playtime,fun a reward. The way reinforcing works is that a dog can only do one behavior at a time. If your dog is anoying you by jumping up all the time, you teach him to sit. He can't jump if he is sitting, and he knows what you expect of him. Mind, it takes a lot of work to get to this point, especially if your dog is so scared of you he pees everytime you talk to him.

[ancientgirl]

I agree with these suggestions you have been given. You have too realize, your dog isn't thinking on the same level you are. They have the level of a 2 or 3 year old child, so you have to do things so they will understand and it's easy for them.

Positive reinforcement is the key.

[Macomom]

Khalian,
I think posting online is like going to the library to get a book- I think it shows a hunger for information and a step forward. So, in taking a step forward- good work
It can be intimidating to post on a forum like this one, because people here are very knowlegeable and have seen many terrible things happen to pets because of people who mistreat them. This is a vocal forum and full of dog advocates. Please don't be intimidated.
I agree with the advice you are getting about crate training your dogs and the positive praise.
Speaking to, and communicating with your dogs is like learning a new language. Your dogs are peeing on the floor because they are speaking dog to you and trying to make you understand that they are non threatening animals. If they don't have to get a message to you, like I am not a threat, then they won't do it- it would be a waste of time and energy for them. If you ignore them, it doesn't continue the behaviour, it sends them a dog message. Ignoring a dog is a powerful thing- they work very hard to get your attention!
When I communicate with my dogs, I purposely widen my eyes and change my facial expression- it is different from how I speak to other humans.
(I probably look pretty silly...) I try to use my body, not my words to get my message across.
Dogs don't forget very easily, so even when you make well meaning mistakes, they remember it- and it takes a long time to build the trust back up.
It will work though- so don't give up!
Remember, people here are so enthusiastic to help. Take their suggestions to heart and try to learn to speak dog. It is really exciting once you start...

[khalian]

thankyou! i will definitally do these things, and i will no longer smack my dogs on the butt, nor yell... but this is a work in progress... i'm sorry that i made it sound like i was an abussive ass, i really do love animals, and in the past i awas told, rubbing there nose in pee, worked, slapping them in the butt, and yelling "no!" worked, but i guess they didn't... i'll try all these idea! i really will!

thankyou!


-khalian

[Bailey_]

You've recieved some really great advice already, I have nothing to add.

Good luck!! Keep us posted.

[Sammi028]

I had a beagle at one point and know your pain. One thing I have learned is that when you are upset about something (in this case him peeing on something inside) you tend to hit a little harder than you intend to. Beagles are little dogs (I have a Silky Terrier and we are going through the same issues with him) and you are like a giant to them. When he pees he is letting you know that you are superior to him...I know it sounds weird, but that's just how dogs work...I used to think that rubbing their nose in it worked too, but by the time that they have pee'd they don't know why you are punishing them because they are showing you that they aknowledge that you are the "alpha dog" so to speak. I agree that he needs to be taken out often and rewarded because then he will understand that outside is where he needs to do his business and reward him when he does go outside. I really do understand what you are going through but if you keep trying to punish the bad behavior the same way and expect a different result then you will be very dissapointed because something has to change in this situation, so why not try it? The best thing that can happen is he will start going outside, the worst it doesn't do anything, but chances are he will want to make you happy so he will do what makes you happy and not upset. Good luck! (We can both work on this together, we still have a long way to go with my little boy)