Choke chain, correction collar vs harness revisited (sorry)

[SolaMio]

Hi all, I searched for both "choke chains" and "harness" in this forum so I know this is an issue that has already been discussed quite a bit. But I'm still confused.

My trainer strongly suggested that I purchase a correction collar for my 3.5 month old malamute/black lab puppy who is quite a "puller". Sola (pup) didn't seem to react much better using the correction collar (which was a nylon collar just big enough to go over her head, and tightens as she pulls, but can't come off). Is this the same as a "choke chain" other than the material difference (chain vs nylon)?

The reason I'm hesitating on this is a) Sola didn't seem to change her pulling, even though I realize this isn't an immediate thing, but we have tried a few times; b) I'm a pretty inexperienced owner and DO NOT want to hurt my pup, heard about potential tracheal damage etc. She was essentially choking herself last night, and I really didn't like it.

I'm wondering if harness training is just as effective? What about a halti (I'm not really sure what this is). I'm a pretty small woman myself, so I need to be able to control this dog when she is 80+lbs!

Sola listens fairly well already, comes when called (most of the time ) and can obey commands.

Anyway, sorry to breach this topic again... But any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

S.

[Ford Girl]

I am no expert either but at 3 months I put a martingale collar on Dazy cuz she was a puller and very naughty. She needed constant corrections. Martinagle means half material, half chain. Corrections are not meant to choke them, some dogs will pull until they can't breathe, I had a trainer show me how to use the correction collor, it's quick firm tugs to the side while they are doing the undesirable behavior, almost to snap them out of it, but they are not meant to be held in "choke" position while the dog is pulling at the end of their leash.

Is the pulling while you walk her? I would say learn a good walking technique that incorporates your collar so that if your dog pulls a quick correction can be made. When they are that little - if used properly, eventually the noise the chain makes will snap them out of it without a correction.

It's the same for a pronged collar, a training chin, martinegale - the purpose to put directed pressure on the neck to stop or discourage behavior, it doesn't stop them from pulling at the end of their leash and it will cause damage if not used properly. Barrel chested dogs like yours hold all their power in their chest and neck, once they start pulling and lowering their stance it's hard to get them not to pull.

Are you able to see a trainer to show you how to use your collar? I have never used a haltie or harness.

[breeze]

Hi Solamio.. It is hard to know whats best.
I have had a huskey (pulled all the time)
had a rotti mix hardley ever puled
a collie shepard mix did not need a collar at all

an we have Bree bernese small for her breed but pull OMG

I myself do not like the choker collar. with a strong breed they never seem to relize that they have it on!! (their throats are very strong)
I do like the halti unless they learn how to hit just the right spot to make your knee buckle and down you go..Bree learnt that when she was just a year old. most dogs do very well with the halti and never make your knee buckle..I use it with my rotti mix.. but never my huskey. she was the excape artist. It takes some time to get use to it, they can be excape artist, that is why you alway cick the extra clip onto her regular collar..
I have never tried he harness.
i now use a pincher collar with Bree,she has pull my shoulder out one to many times.. and I too am a small women.. with this collar you must find a good trainer to show you how to use it.. it is mandiory. other wise to loose or to tight can injure your pup !!!!!!
If our pup is 3.5 month you said.. I would problay try the halti first.. maybe a martingale. a martinale is like a choker but closes only so much...what ever works for you, and to make the walk more enjoyable...I have tried many different kinds and finially I have found the right one.. ..

[want4rain]

i would strongly suggest the halti/head harness. its just abotu fool proof if you can get it on them. we have a heck of a time getting it on Mister and we do some serious bribing. but it works perfectly.

-ash

[TeriM]

IMO, a 3.5 month old puppy should not be using a halti or a correction neck device. The potential for injury at such a young age is just too likely for my comfort. The halti could end up whipping his neck around and straining his muscles and his neck is not strong enough for the choke. If you must use a head harness device then make sure you purchase a newtrix type as that works by tightening behind his head and not pulling the face around http://www.newtrix.ca/docs/index.php. An older dog would likely be fine in a head device but a puppy is still very excitable.

I would strongly suggest purchasing a body harness like the sensation body harness http://www.softouchconcepts.com/ or the gentle leader harness http://www.premier.com/pages.cfm?id=74 . They work by attaching in the front of the body and redirecting the pups energy around towards you. I found the sensation harness was the best fit for my large lab but I also bought the bigger version of the gentle leader and had it modified slightly to fit. It will depend on the shape of your puppy which would be best.

I did eventually go to a pinch collar as well but that was just this year when my dog hit 90 lbs and 1.5 years old. It was mostly the teenager attitude that caused me to convert from the harness as I wanted just a bit more control.

Good luck.

[want4rain]

very good point TeriM. we used the GL body harness with Mister at that age (he swore he was a sled dog) and it worked really really well until he got to be about 65lbs.

-ash

[SolaMio]

Thanks folks for the advice.. We have a pretty limited selection where I live , but I'm going to try our only pet supply store and see what they have. I'm really tentative about correction collars so maybe I will try a harness and see how I make out. I think they did have a "gentle leader" brand harness, if memory serves. I'll keep you updated!

Sola does pull quite a lot now, and she weighs about 30 lbs. I've been trying to teach her the "heel" command but the results are just kind of comical so far.

[dogcatharmony]

Are you looking for the collar just for the pulling while walking? Seeing your dog is a malamute mix, just from my experience be careful using a body harness because it can actually make then pull more. I have an Elkhound mix and we tried endless collars because of her pulling, when I got a body harness she figured out she could pull more by putting her whole body into it. After countless collars I tried something new, I put her normal everyday collar on her and leashed her to me, as soon as she started pulling i would turn around and walk the other way. Which ever way she wanted to go I went the opposite. It only took two walks and she caught onto watching where I was going instead of pulling me where she wanted to go.

Good luck.

[Winston]

I agree with Breeze here! what she said about the pinscher is right on the money!

I am a pretty small women and have taken one too many undesirable pulls across the street almost being hit by a car! My dog is over 100lbs with the big barrel chest! He attempted to pull once with the pinscher collar and has never again! He is a good dog to walk now because of it! some will not agree..each dog is very different and so are the sizes of the owners...

I never liked a choke chain period, because you could never enjoy walking a dog that is practically dead by choking itself as it pulls!!

I also used a gentle leader when he was small and that was also good because it controlled the upper portion of the head as well but he quickly grew up and stronger!

Good Luck

Cindy

[lavandula&gaya]

Originally Posted by breeze

i now use a pincher collar with Bree,she has pull my shoulder out one to many times.. and I too am a small women.. with this collar you must find a good trainer to show you how to use it.. it is mandiory. other wise to loose or to tight can injure your pup !!!!!!

i sincerely believe that every situation needs individual attention... that not every training tool will fit every dog or every owner...

i also use a "pinscher collar/prong collar", as strongly suggested by my new dog trainer for dominant/aggressive dogs - she showed me how to use it with her own before i bought my own the following day... i just adopted gaya at the spca shelter, 2.5 weeks ago, she is 3.5 y.o., only 57 pounds, but she is pulling terribly, making a walk with a reg. collar totally impossible for more than 5 min., just for the time for a pee when we're on the road... and she is demonstrating spontaneous aggressiveness towards other pets we meet in parks... :sad: i don't really know what happened to her with other pets... people don't tell everything when they abandon their pets at the spca shelter... the only thing they said is that gaya was alone all day/evening in a fenced yard, or in a cage inside...

i have major back and neck/shoulder issues and i walk with a cane - i didn't like the idea of a prong collar initially, not more than for a choker, but for everyone's safety, with proper instructions, i went for it... as i learned that the prong collar is safer for your dog than the choker chain... so, with the prong collar, i feel i have a much much better control... and walking in parks is now possible and fun with my new friend... better be safe than sorry

here are 2 links i found... for those interested in getting more info on how to use the pinscher collar/prong collar:

quote:
A Study on Prong Collars was done in Germany:
100 dogs were in the study. 50 used choke and 50 used prong.
The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed.
Of the 50 which had chokes, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma.
Of the 50 which had prongs, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma.


http://www.cobankopegi.com/prong.html#Pictures

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/prong.html

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[kigndano]

*deleted by me*