nasal infection resistant to antibiotics

[hartwick]

Our Rottweiler cross has had a similar problem for the last 2 months. We are now on our 3rd round of antibiotics for 2 secondary bacterial infections (staph and strepp). But the primary cause of the purulent mucous discharge remains unknown.On a daily basis it crusts over his nostril and has to be removed. The color is a brownish green. We have had him x-rayed, nothing apparent, and currently are waiting on a fungal culture. He's getting worse. He's approx 2.5 years old, an adoption from the local shelter.He only leaves his bed if bid or if nature calls. He lies down with his bowl between his paws to eat dinner and takes about 1/2 hr and doesn't finish it all. He is miserable and we are holding out for any hope.
Thank you in advance for any response.

[Luba]

I can give you an alternative remedy that won't harm!

Go to a health food store and buy oil of oregano (it is a little pricey but concentrated and worth every drop so be careful on how much you use, its very very strong and powerful)
boil it on the stove in water.... I'd say 2 cups of water to 10 drops of oregano oil. Keep your dog in the kitchen while its boiling, let him inhale the properties of the oil. It is a known bacterial and viral killer.

You can also add a drop of it to some water and see if he will drink it, which he may not....so you can add a drop of it to some juice. He may act funny afterwards as there is a bit of a tingly feeling.

Give him a treat right after.

Sounds weird but it is great stuff.

Also if your dog has been on antibiotics give him yogurt or buy live bacterial culture to give back all the pro bacteria the antibiotics have killed off, which your dog needs.

Use plain yogurt.

[hartwick]

The dog is not breathing through his nose. Is there any way to spray the oregano oil into his nose?

[Luba]

NO don't do that it will burn!

Did you get the oregano oil?

Trust me , if you keep the dog in the kitchen and do this every day

He has no choice but to inhale the fumes. It should work and it's worth a try. It cant' do any harm.

Don't put the mixture too close to your dog as it can irritate eyes and burn.

[hartwick]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply we'd spray it directly in his nose.

We put a few drops in some butter and he gobbled it up. We actually noticed a difference later in the day. His nose seems to be clearer and he is less lathargic. Let's hope this continues.

We'll boil some up and see how it goes.

Any recommendations on how often to dose him directly (ie. with in butter or some such treat)?

He's been on a lot of anitbiotics.We've started giving him some plain yogurt to get the enzymes back in his system.

[Luba]

I wouldn't use butter....not a good idea

How about mixing it in with a some wet dog food?

No more then two drops twice a day.

You can also put it in some baby food as well or even mashed potato w/o butter or salt.

When you boil it on the stove just keep him in the same room so he can breath it all in!

It's powerful, so not too much at a time!

I'm glad it's helping out

Pls let me know the outcome!

The yogurt is a very good idea, keep it up

[hartwick]

Mackie (our rottweiller cross) seems to be slipping again. He finished his antibiotics on Tuesday Morning (for staph and strepp infections) and we started him on the oregano oil treatments. Thank you Luba for your recommendations.

For Wednesday and Thursday, he seemed to improve. He was getting out of bed and wagging his tail in greeting. He actually stood to eat dinner!! The mucous discharge seemed to change to runnier and clear. His condition seemed to be changing.

Now I'm fearful that he seems to be sliding again. The mucous has gotten thick again and is crusting up his nostrils. It is eroding his nose and now even his muzzle. We are treating this by removing the mucous with a warm wet cloth and putting on Pet Gel. We are continuing the oregano treatments but are stuck as to what next.

His fungal culture may not be back for another 10 days. I'm thinking of asking my vet for a referral to the clinic at Guelph U. on monday (he's away today).

Any thoughts, suggestions, anything??

In January 03, Dr. Paul Giundon had suggested OCULONAT for what sounded like a similar problem. Should I try that??

[Luba]

Oh dear I'm sorry to hear that!

Are you boiling the oregano oil on the stove too?

Just being in the air it will soak through the mucos membranes of the eyes and nose. I'd keep giving him it orally as well, just a couple of drops, it won't hurt!

All that mucos loss, make sure he doesn't dehydrate...give him lots of water or ice.

Where are you, what city?

If you're closer to Toronto there is a referral clinic here that is also a 24 hr hospital.

I think a referral is probably a very good idea at this point!

I would also continue to give him some plain yogurt daily.

Did your vet actually do a nasal swab and send it to the lab to culture?

[hartwick]

We are still doing all the oregano treatments.

We are north of Toronto. Can you give us the name of the referral clinic.

[Luba]

Veterinary Emergency Clinic
920 Yonge Street, Toronto
416 920 2002

Yonge north of Bloor Street
(entrance at rear on McMurrich)

This place is open 24/7!!

[hartwick]

Took Mackie into the vet yesterday to be scoped. He has no signs of tumors. The vet believes it is fungal and cureable. The infection is in both nasal cavities and not in his lungs. He stayed over night and will be back today.

Thanks for all the help. The oregano oil did make him feel better and made the whole house smell great.

Thanks again. We'll let you know how things end up.

[Luba]

Great stuff

keep up the Oregano oil, it will help and let me know how he is doing !!!

[hartwick]

We're at a dead end.
Mackie was scoped last week for his nasal condition. The biopsies (12) weren't able to find ANYTHING!!!!
No evidence of cancer, no autoimmune, no fungal. Just a massive bacterial infection that has not responded to antibiotics.
Where do we go from here. He won't come out of his cage willingly. His nose is coming apart.
The vet is suggesting 1) a course of anti-fungal, 2) re-scoping,
3) nasal surgery.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance for your response.

[Luba]

Oh dear, I am sorry the oil of oregano isn't working BUT pls keep it up as it may take awhile if the bacteria has grown.

This must be frustrating and he must be so uncomfortable.

Do you have a homeopathic vet near you? I wonder if they can suggest something that your regular vet isn't suggesting. Also, did your vet do the scope him/herself? You should see a specialist.

What started all of this with the nose? Can you remember?

[Luba]

I found some sites regarding treatment that may be helpful to you...I hope it is best of luck.

Have they done blood work to rule out underlying causes??

http://www.skinvet.com/diseasedetail.asp?index=27

Skin lesions are most common on the face, ears, feet, and tip of the tail. The lesions usually consist of patchy hair loss, redness, scaling, and mild crusting. Some dogs may exhibit ulcers
Therapy for the skin lesions may consist of vitamin E, fatty acid supplements

http://www.skinvet.com/content.asp?index=12

http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/de.../seborrhea.htm
Secondary seborrhea is seen in older dogs. It looks the same clinically but is a response by the skin to other conditions, rather than an inherent defect in the skin itself.

http://www.skinvet.com/diseasedetail.asp?index=23
What is pemphigus foliaceus?
Pemphigus foliaceus (PF) is a skin disease of dogs and cats that typically begins in early middle age. It causes crusting on the skin surface. The skin under these crusts is raw and may be painful. The disease may begin on the face and ears,


http://www.skinvet.com/diseasedetail.asp?index=25
What is Malassezia?
Malassezia is the name of a type of yeast (fungus) that lives on the surface of the skin of dogs. It is a normal inhabitant of the ear canal and some other parts of the skin, and in most dogs it does not cause a problem. The yeast lives on substances produced by the skin and likes areas of high moisture. It is the same organism that causes some ear infections.

http://www.dog.org/1999/e-abstract99/161.html


This is a good one too:http://www.acvd.org/public/beforeaft...afterindex.htm

[hartwick]

I have found a naturopathic vet but she wanted a diagnosis before trying to treat him. I'm going to get him in to see her first thing in the morning. Maybe there is something she can suggest.
I'm also very worried about this bacterial infection. Both staph and strep can migrate over the the children.

Mackie was scoped at a referral clinic, she gave me the name. The original swab that we did came back negative for fungal as well.

He's such a trooper. I know it hurts him when I clean off his nose, but he still lets me do it. He's such an awsome dog. It's rotten not knowing how to help him.

Thanks again for your responses.

[Luba]

You're welcome

Does he lick at it a lot?

You should try to clean it with aloe vera gel. You can buy it at any health food store and it's cheap. Called lily of the desert, good brand. Maybe you can also try putting vitamin e directly on it, unless he licks it off. Plus giving supplements internally with his food vitamin e, evening primrose, omega fatty acids.

This will help if even a little bit...give the immune system something to work with.

I just thought of something.... odd

Take his bowl away and feed him on one of your plates and take it right away after so he can't lick it. There may be a chance he's reinfectecting himself ? maybe through his nose contacting the bowl. OR there is a toxic chemical in the dish you use??

Some stuff to think about.

[hartwick]

They did blood work as part of the scoping procedure.

It all started as a runny nose. I thought he had a cold and my sister told me to get him to the vet. They thought it was a bacterial infection but it didn't respond to antibiotics.

The worst problem now is that his nose is eroding. Like the inside of the nose of the picture of the dog with Lupus. One entire nostril is raw inside and out and his muzzle is deteriorating as well. It's from being wet for 3 months from the mucous discharge.
And now the top of his nose is rotting as well.
I am encouraged by the photo of the Lupus dog. The black covering on his nose did grow back.

Thank you again for all your efforts and support.

[hartwick]

You may have hit on something. He may be reinfecting from his food bowl. I'll do the plate thing.

Interesting - our other dog (who is 12 years old) is not showing and symptoms. I think I'm going to farm him out for the duration.

[hartwick]

Luba, thanks for the tip on EFA's.
Just gave him a bowl of Yogurt, Flaxseed oil and Lean hamburger.
He left the meat and mopped up the Yogurt and oil.
Fell asleep with his muzzle in the bowl.
He seems to know what he needs most.

[Luba]

I dont' think you need to necessarily separate your dogs. If the other one hasn't been affected yet, I dont' think he will. But then again, you just never know.

I think you're doing great with the yogurt and flax seed oil.

Try some of the other things and maybe I would say no to the hamburger. Try boiled chicken and turkey for now.

Hamburger can set off pancreatitis and heaven knows if your dogs resistence is down that is a BIG possibility.

Give him fresh foods, carrots, celery and apples. Start off small though, chop them up finely and just add a little with the yogurt when you give it to him.

Yes some of the information I posted in the links is very reassuring.

This is a very interesting topic and I'm hoping others reading it will also learn from what your poor dog is experiencing.

Give your dog a hug for me

And... lets see some pictures


Also.... print off some of the information and take it to your vet!!
Sometimes they need some help

[Luba]

Just checking in for an update? How are things going?
Any more tests been done?

[hartwick]

Hi Luba,
We're holding right now. Mackie has an appointment at Guelph U. on Monday.
He doing OKAY. Since we put him on real food, he's acting more like himself. He's not quite so lethargic, he stands to eat his food, he wants to come outside with us and he's even keen on the occasional walk.
But the green mucous continues to stream down his nose.

We are hopefull that the young bright minds at the Veterinary College will be able give a diagnosis and maybe even a course of action.

As for now, he isn't deteriorating. I guess that's a good sign. As soon as we hear anything, we will let you know.
Thank you for your help and support throughout this difficult time. We're still working on a picture.

PS Obedience class is for humans....

[Luba]

Hi I'm glad to hear u have a specialist appt!

They have them at the Emergency Clinic in D/T toronto as well if it's close to you.

Keep up on the oil of oregano and other homeopathic remedies we talked of, it WILL help to boost the immune system and reduce/eliminate any bacteria.

Glad he's eating better, keep it up as it sounds like you are doing the right thing here.

[hartwick]

The vet college in Guelph diagnosed Mackie with a fungal infection. He has been treated and appears to be on the mend.

[Luba]

YIPPIE DO DA

[Luba]

Hi there, just checking in to see how things are progressing ?

Luba

[hartwick]

Well, I'm not quite sure what to say.
Mackie was diagnosed with asperigillosis (please excuse the spelling) a fungal infection by the OVC. Amazing people and wonderful care. I would recommend to anyone with a complex problem to go to them. He underwent 2 "drenching" treatments under full anesthetic. I took him back for a check-up last week and now he has pnemonia and his kidney's aren't concentrating urine. They tested him to see if the fungal infection had moved into his organs and it hasn't. He's on antibiotics (again) but they don't seem to be helping at all. We also have him on probiotics and Noni juice.
Whatever damage was done to him before he came to us may be too extensive to fix. I fear his body is breaking down now as people's do at the end of their lives. I only hope that I can continue to make the right decisions for him.
Thanks you again Luba for all your support and help.

[Luba]

Well lets all send some positive vibes to Mackie!!

Cranberry, pure cranberry will help reduce residuals and bacteria in kidney and liver as well as bladder.

The probiotics are a great idea, keep that up.

One other thing you may consider is shark cartilidge. Since sharks are immune to every single disease known to man, this can only do good for him.

I have faith that he'll get through this, I truly hope he does!

Thank you for the update and for taking such wonderful care of him!

[Princesss04]

Your dog is so lucky to have you taking care of him. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope all goes well.