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  #31  
Old June 11th, 2006, 06:41 PM
jawert1 jawert1 is offline
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I don't mean to sound crass, but dogs are not iPods. They don't work right out of the litter, they don't just automatically do what you want with little or no serious input from you. I sincerely hope he finds his way to a caring, committed home that understands:
a) he's a puppy with little real training
b) he's a lab, ergo working dog with real exercise needs that supercede your idea of what you THINK he needs
c) he's an extremely intelligent breed that needs MENTALLY exercised just as much - running him through commands with no understanding of your own body language or tone of voice is ineffective if you don't check where YOU are in this equation.

A two way street is no way to think of your relationship with your dog, he's better off rehomed and you petless until you get a real understanding of what YOU need to do to be a good pet owner.
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  #32  
Old June 11th, 2006, 08:52 PM
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Joey.E.CockersMommy Joey.E.CockersMommy is offline
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Sprayerdog before you make your decision if you havent already I think you should read "Marley and Me" by John Grogan if you havent already. He was a character right up to the end and you'll have crazy stories of your lab to pass on.
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  #33  
Old June 11th, 2006, 08:54 PM
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I've got two cats, albeit not the same as dogs, however they are both demons! Pawz gets into the tub and can't get out (its especially funny if the tub is wet ), Leo and Pawz will attack the curtains, the windows, the chairs, and anything that moves (including my boyfriend, my friends, my family and I), Leo will steal Pawz's food, they eat me out of house and home, and inevitably at 6am they meow at the door/stomp/pounce on us for their food! I have had my kittens for all of about 3 or 4 weeks now, and I would not trade them for the world! In fact the only thing that would stop me from would be a serious medical crisis where I wouldn't be ABLE to take care of them anymore! (ie. I'm in a major car accident in a coma, or I suddenly become deathly allergic to cats for some reason)

It is going to cost me huge amounts of money (to me anyway) to neuter them both, if they get sick my finances will become the toilet flushing....would I give them up? NOPE. Not a chance! They aren't perfect and I could do without the 6am wake up calls but I love them and couldn't possibly give them away! To top it all off I'm flying by the seat of my pants as far as training or vet care or anything goes and I may not do a perfect job and they may still find our hands enticing in several years as chew toys, but I'm still not giving up on them! My demons! My funny little loving demons who fight all day with each other.

Yes I understand dogs are more time and effort to train and I have seen what happens when you get a particularly intelligent dog (my boyfriend's little sister is having tons of trouble because Ollie has a mind of her own) and I've seen what happens when you get an idiot (think Jack Russell chasing a school bus down the road ) for a dog....With the right training and the right amount of time spent Matty will get better! Patience and time and unconditional love! Even I know that one and I've never owned a pet before Leo and Pawz...

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  #34  
Old June 11th, 2006, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey.E.CockersMommy
Sprayerdog before you make your decision if you havent already I think you should read "Marley and Me" by John Grogan if you havent already. He was a character right up to the end and you'll have crazy stories of your lab to pass on.
LOL, good suggestions JECM

(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppyluv
I think, just as an anecdote (and because it's a really good book) you should read "Marley and Me" by John Grogan, it's about a man who has an extremely poorly behaved dog, but they lived with him to 13.
)
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  #35  
Old June 11th, 2006, 09:02 PM
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Oh wow, I was just going to suggest that book. I read it a few weeks ago and I laughed and cried until the very end. Read the book. True story and maybe you'll re-think this.
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  #36  
Old June 12th, 2006, 11:47 AM
sprayeddog sprayeddog is offline
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Wow. I'm overwhelmed by the comments but then again maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

I don't even know where to start.

I guess on internet forums like this, it's easy to trash on the guy who said "I've had enough with my dog." I guess on a pets forum, it's easy to look at things from the dog's perspective ... I question if any of you have even tried to understand how difficult a decision it is from my perspective, and what we've gone through emotionally?

Yeah, it's easy to say harsh things like "You're a bad owner". "I wasted my time giving advice to you." "Don't ever get another dog. You don't deserve it." "Don't have kids." "I feel sorry for your kids if you have any." if you are to assume the owner bears 100% of the responsibility of this relationship, regardless of what the dog does.

A lot of people say I haven't done enough. I wonder how many of you realize how much I've actually done. Everyday, the only 'life' we have is the 1hr before we go to sleep. Every other minute either I'm either sleepting, working, or else I'm playing / training / exercising with Matty. Never mind he's not even being obedient while playing / training him.

I'm not saying "I've done a lot". But if giving everything you have, save for 1 hr every day, is 'not enough', then I don't know what is.

Matty is not our 1st dog, as I've said. And as I've said, if Matty is a dog that requires me to go the extra mile, then I'll go the extra mile for him.

And I think I have.

Matty destroyed the first drywall? Ok I got him a crate to protect him as well as protect my house.

He destroyed the dry wall that's beside the crate? Ok, I move the crate to the middle of the room so he can't touch the drywall. Plus, I give him more exercise so he's a more tired doggy. Tired dog = good dog, right?

He destroyed the hardwood floor underneath the crate? Ok, I'd just forget about the flooring, and I give him even more exercise. I wake up earlier to run with him until he's literally catching his breath when we get home. I take him for 2 walks instead of 1 in the afternoon, 1 when I get home and 1 at night. I spend more time playing and exercising with him at home, physically and mentally.

He actually moved his crate 5' from the middle of the room to a drywall to destroy it. What can I do about that?

Matty's received little training? Ok I took him to beginner obedience class, and still not enough? I signed him up for intermediate class, but he's behaving so badly the trainer told me he's distracting the rest of the class and asked me to either re-take beginner class or take my refund.

Matty's life is 'too structured' (isn't it funny how I can "under-train" matty and 'over-train' matty at the same time?!) Ok I spend an hour just 'playing' with Matty and let him 'be a dog'. I play soccer with him, and let him do whatever. I wouldn't expect him to do anything, but of course, he'd still jump up on me and nip my hand, which I still gotta correct.

Can I do any more than that? I don't know, but if he's a dog that requires me to give more, I have definitely given more.

And I do all that not to expect Matty to be a model citizen, but at the very least so that he can stop wrecking our house and at the very least co-exist with us in the same house.

And when that doesn't happen obviously I'm going to get extremely discouraged.

Don't tell me owner-dog relationship is not a 2-way street. Don't tell me if you do as much as you can to love and care for your dog, and all you get in return is disrespect, disobedient and destructive behaviour you won't hurt your realationship with your dog. You go the extra mile to try to build a better relationship, and your dog jumps up to bite your hand. Now tell me that doesn't break your heart.

Most of you are quite willing to jump to a conclusion that Matty's a dog that's under-cared for and udner-exercised, and I'm a bad owner who hasn't given enough, without even trying to understand how much I've given and sacrificed time-wise, financially and most important emotionally.

I guess this is an internet forum, where people can trash on one another and question other's character without even trying to understand the situation.


==============

I don't even know why I bother telling you people this, but anyways I went back to the trainer on Sunday and spent a long time talking to her about the situation and challenge I had. She patiently listened to my whole story.

And I was surprised by what she told me. She started by saying if I really want, she can introduce me to lab-rehoming services, that would be the best for owners looking to rehome their labs. She went through the specifics with me, but she then she said she does NOT recommend me to do that. And I was stunned by the reason.

She said she knows how we've been with Matty through our training, and she doesn't think the new owner, whoever it might be, will be able to give as much as we have for Matty. She said she is really touched by our love for Matty, and how we've been giving everything but 1 hr of our daily life to help Matty fit-in.

She said Matty is a dog the requires A LOT. From her experience, labs are high-maintenance high-energy dogs but Matty's more than just that. She said it's not our fault that it's not working out, and it's not Matty's neither, but that's just the way he is.

She said if we can hang in there, there's a chance one-day Matty will turn the corner. But if we rehome him, she really questions if the new owner can give as much as we can for as long, and chances are Matty will be rehomed again very soon, and again and again, just because of his destructive behavior and extreme high energy. And that's a very bad thing for a dog to be rehomed every few months or so ... .

She asked us to reconsider it over the wkend, and if we still want to rehome Matty we can call that service. BUT, if we decide to give Matty some more time she's volunteered to spend some 1 on 1 time with Matty and us, after her usual class time for free. All that because she sees how much we love Matty and how tough it's been for us over the last few months.


So my wife and I have talked about it over the wkend. We couldn't decide, my wife's past the point she can be with Matty anymore but I still wanted to give him some more time.

This morning, I was running with Matty as usual, and at the park, he was pulling so hard that he actually broke his collar and ran free. I just stood there, thinking again about whether I should just give him away or not. But then he didn't really go far. No matter where I went, he would stay reasonably close to me (all this without other ppl or distraction at the park, obviously) ... eventually I stood there looking at him and he came over, and started licking my leg. I just held him in tears and I don't think I can ever really give him away. (of course, then he started biting my glasses and I needed to correct him but that's beside the point)

Yes he's disobedient, he's destructive, he drives us absolutely crazy most of the times. I didn't think there's any more that I can give, but then there is. If what the trainer said is right, and I trust her professional experience, then chances are Matty is going to be in a worse situation if he's rehomed.

For that, I'll try to give him some more and wait and see if he can turn around before either I go completely crazy or my wife files for divorce. Matty's going to stay with me, as I'll try to give him a little more.

So that's my story with Matty. I don't think most of you even care to go through it. And I'm a 'bad owner' who's such a 'waste of time' for your advices I don't think I'll be posting here any more.

Just a little advice - next time a devastated owner comes here, completely out of hope and faith, maybe you can try to put yourself in his shoes and understand his situation before jumping to the conclusion he's another one of those 'easy give-away' owner. There are bad owners out there, but there are good owners who really love dogs and just have bad experience. Sometimes a pat on the back is all they need. I am glad I turned to my local professional trainer for advice.

Last edited by sprayeddog; June 12th, 2006 at 12:05 PM.
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  #37  
Old June 12th, 2006, 12:04 PM
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happycats happycats is offline
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Please don't leave!
I think you and Matty can find useful tips and great support here (I know it doesn't seem that way right now) Many of us came here for support and advise, and were flamed, and left feeling like a horrible pet owner, but give this place a chance, I think you and matty would benefit from it!

I commend you for all that you have done, to make this relationship work, and I for one am here to offer support and advice, to help you and matty get through this trying time.

Many here are involved in rescue, and in "rehomeing" dogs like matty, so may come across harsh, but I am sure given all the facts, they are here and will help in any way to make this work for you and Matty.

So WELCOME to you and Matty, chin up, put your feet up and stay awhile!
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  #38  
Old June 12th, 2006, 12:30 PM
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jessi76 jessi76 is offline
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I remember when you first joined here. I remember matty's puppy pics. I remember posting numerous times (with either good or bad advice) about Matty. I cried when I read you were giving up.

your last post did make me smile though, particularly the part where you realized you could never really give him away.

I'm glad to hear the trainer has gotten though to you about the re-homing issue. that's really great news that you're willing to stick it out. Just remember one thing, you made a commitment when you brought this dog into your home.

At this point, all I can really say is... re-take the beginner obedience class.

and when you're done, do it again. If you have to take that class 12 times before Matty gets it, then so be it.

I wish you the best, in fact, I always have. (as many ppl here have done also) it's just heartbreaking for us to read that someone such as yourself (who HAS given time & patience AND implemented alot of the advice given) would just give up. so just as you ask us to be more understanding, I ask that you too, be understanding and respectfull of our opinions on the matter. A good majority of us have read your posts and seen pictures of matty's development, feel like we know him, and are hurt when he's given up on.

like I said earlier, I'm glad you've changed your mind, and I do wish you the best of luck.
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  #39  
Old June 12th, 2006, 12:30 PM
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Mahealani770 Mahealani770 is offline
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Tough Situation

I just want to say that I have been following your story since the beginning and I don't know where you get the strength to go on with Matty. You have been through so much with him..much more than most people would put up with. I'm not sure what the answer is here, as there are no winners in this situation, but I commend you for sticking this out...even at the possibility of your wife leaving you. I know my partner would have BEEN left me over this situation, especially when Matty started destroying walls. My heart just breaks for the three of you. I was in tears reading your last comment.

Is it possible that Matty could be put on meds? I'm not a fan of medicating animals but it just seems like he has serious issues that training can only do so much for. That question is for you and the experts on this board.

Anyway, I have felt like you do now, as far as people getting on your case, but please hang in there and don't leave. It's hard for other people who aren't in your situation to understand exactly what you're going through. I know it's frustrating when you've followed everyone's advice, you've done all the training classes, got kicked out of the training classes, and the behavior is still terrible. I am, however, soooo happy to read that someone is going to volunteer her time to you and Matty and that you are going to keep him. That is great.

So please don't leave, and do keep us all up to date on Matty's progress. If you need to or want to talk to someone privately, feel free to PM me anytime.
You're in my prayers,
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  #40  
Old June 12th, 2006, 12:46 PM
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I'm so glad you posted this, and I truly hope you continue to post. True it is "easy to attack" over the internet, because we are spread out all over the world, and have met few, if any of the other members in person. I think everyone would agree that Matty is a "difficult dog", and yes, many of us, myself included, questioned the amount of work you were putting into him. I was raised in a family where our dogs got 5-6 one hour walks a day, so reading your old posts made me think he was being drastically underexercised. But your new post is exactly what we needed all along. You have clarified so much for us, and I commend you on taking the time for doing so.

I hope you stay. The people here are so knowledgable. We litterally have an "expert" on every topic, and you could get so much useful advice, both on training and on other aspects of Matty's life. Also, just think about the advice you could provide to the next person who comes here with a "matty".

I really hope these one-on-ones will help. Matty still has a few more years of "puppydom" in him, so I hope you can hang on for it! My parents' dog was a "puppy" until she was 6, so I won't pretend it will all be better soon, it won't. It will take time, you already know how much effort is needed, now you just have to maintain it.
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  #41  
Old June 12th, 2006, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Matty destroyed the first drywall? Ok I got him a crate to protect him as well as protect my house.

He destroyed the dry wall that's beside the crate? Ok, I move the crate to the middle of the room so he can't touch the drywall. Plus, I give him more exercise so he's a more tired doggy. Tired dog = good dog, right?

He destroyed the hardwood floor underneath the crate? Ok, I'd just forget about the flooring, and I give him even more exercise. I wake up earlier to run with him until he's literally catching his breath when we get home. I take him for 2 walks instead of 1 in the afternoon, 1 when I get home and 1 at night. I spend more time playing and exercising with him at home, physically and mentally.

He actually moved his crate 5' from the middle of the room to a drywall to destroy it. What can I do about that?
I highly recommend purchasing an extra large Vari kennel plastic crate. There's no way he could get the drywall through that. I like the extra large size because they have a stronger door and lock. They are 100% worth the $$ and you can maybe find one used online for less.
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  #42  
Old June 12th, 2006, 01:24 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Sometimes a pat on the back is all they need.
Often this is true, but from things you've said - the dog is driving you crazy, your wife is depressed over him and can't stand being around him, and that "2 way street" comment, implying that this dog made some kind of bargain with you and is reneging on it, make it seem like a pat on the back isn't going to do it.

If I may sidetrack for a moment: I have a feral cat who I have showered with affection, good food, warmth, soft beds etc for the last 3 years. She won't come near me and will NEVER return one iota of the love I have for her. Am I hurt at her lack of gratitude? Of course not. She's an animal, and never asked to be brought into my home nor made any bargains with me.

As for Matty, there is also the possiblility that there is something wrong with your dog. So many Labs are being churned out by so many bad breeders that a lot of problems (genetic, temperament) can be expected and are showing up. True, Labs mature slowly and can be a pain for up to 4 or so years, but yours sounds beyond that.
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  #43  
Old June 12th, 2006, 01:26 PM
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Dog Dancer Dog Dancer is offline
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Poor Matty. I've been through this as well, my Shadow has eaten many doors, window frames, blinds, chairs, flooring, and taken down more drywall than many people working construction. We had to fit our lives around hers and it wasn't easy. The crate didn't work for her at all, and finally when my husband passed away I had to take her to doggy day care. If you don't think that wasn't a big strain on my finances think again! But let me say this, her issues were from separation anxiety and when she had to face that at the day care centre, and she had to deal with the daily stresses at the day care centre she improved vastly. It has been six years now since she started day care and two years now since she stays home alone - mind you she is never left inside when we're out, she has to stay outside on a locked/fenced patio. She's fine with that now. She's nine years old now and I'm proud that we never gave up on her. Almost did more than once, but in the end I had just make it work for her she was just too good a girl to abandon her. Please try again with Matty. It's rarely easy, but always worth it in the long run. If not please make sure you responsibly rehome Matty and make sure the new owners are fully equipped and know what Matty's issues are. Lying about it will relieve you of the problem but won't ease your soul any if you know she's going through it all again somewhere else. It will haunt you if you don't handle it well - trust me, been there, done that and never again.
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  #44  
Old June 12th, 2006, 01:34 PM
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Esaunders Esaunders is offline
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Hang in there.

My background is much more in horse training than dog training. There's a few things that I learned in that field that may be useful.

- When things get desparate, get real life help immediately. Forums are great for venting but no one can SEE the situation so snap judgements (and very unworkable suggestions) are way to easy to make.

- Some animal/person combinations ARE NOT MEANT TO WORK OUT. This is more readily recognized in the horse world where a mis-match is more likely to result in serious injury to either or both parties. Unfortunately, the animal that is near-impossible to deal with is that is almost impossible to place in a good home.

The best thing that can be done is to train-train-train the animal in question so that a good home will want them. Deal with it like a rescue, this is no longer your dog but a dog that you are rehabilitating for an unknown someone else. When that point is reached, one can step back and re-evaluate. You may find that good home for the animal in your own.

- Sometimes the most challenging animals can be the most rewarding, after alot of blood, sweat and tears. (meant literally btw) I've owned and worked with a few like that. Make no mistake, it gets worse before it gets better. That is where professional help is so vital. They can help you see if you are going to turn a corner or if you are following a dead end.


Best of luck, you have a challenge ahead of you. I hope this gets better for all of you. When in doubt, ignore us ALL on here and listen to the pro. They can see the situation, we can't.
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  #45  
Old June 12th, 2006, 01:39 PM
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Wow people were busy posting while I was. So much has changed already! Glad to hear that you're going to pursue a bit more. Good luck. Of course I hope you realize that I do understand also what you're going through and your frustration with it. I also have a 5 year old lab who is still just a puppy brain but fortunately not destructive (but can you say noisy???) It's so hard and yes, sometimes our people here while meaning the best can be bluntly harsh. Try not to take it personally. Give Matty some time and he'll come around - back to beginning again. Good luck to you, your wife and Matty. The trainer you have sounds good and very aware stick with it. Like I said we did day care for a long time and all the obedience you can handle, but in the end the obedience didn't help the destructive issues - stress management for the dog did Oh and we did try some of the doggy drugs too, but everybody thought she was sick when she was on them so we dropped those, but I would imagine they've improved vastly now and may be worth a try if you need to.
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  #46  
Old June 12th, 2006, 01:52 PM
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Sprayeddog,I did read your whole post,as I have any others you've written.
I can really not judge you,I am not that experienced with dogs,but Matty could be Cody(black lab/German Sheperd)almost 1yr old.He lives across the street from me.
He is incredibly obedient,but when left alone in the house is slowly destroying it:sad:
I am glad you have an understanding trainer,who could tell you like it is.
I too would probably go nuts if my dog would destroy my house,but drywalls,floors etc..can be fixed,while Matty would probably not stand a chance in a shelter.
I believe you love your dog,he might never become a perfectly obedient dog,not many are,but he will give you love and comfort in return,he's not going to be a puppy forever.
One day you'll be glad you did not give up on him.
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  #47  
Old June 12th, 2006, 01:53 PM
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dtbmnec dtbmnec is offline
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When Matty finally gets through this you will be soooo happy!

Pawz and Leo have finally figured out how to jump *out* of the bathtub so I don't have to go "rescue" them anymore! I am so proud of them! Now if only the 6am wake up calls could stop....

hehe

If all else fails....find the nearest wall and bash your head off it! It works....so long as its not hard either that or pick up a particularly violent video game or something and kill stuff in it! lol (It works for me....with you maybe not so much...)

Good luck and Happy training

Megan

P.S. If I came across as particularly mean, I'm sorry....didn't mean to just yeah....
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  #48  
Old June 12th, 2006, 02:03 PM
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phoenix phoenix is offline
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Hi sprayeddog. Good post. I noticed that you reached 100 posts and figure they are all about this one issue, aren't they? I'm glad you stuck it out with the board.

I know that we can be a harsh bunch. The thing is, very often, people give you advice and it seems that you don't hear it, and that has been so frustrating throughout... but I couldn't be happier that you decided to see that trainer and that she talked to you and seems to have made an impression on you.

When my dogs were puppies, they chewed through door frames and baseboards. Even now, I've had to put fences up around my garden to keep them from eating expensive flowers, but most days I come home to find the heads chopped off of them. Sam peed ON my husband yesterday. I had a week a little while ago when the vet asked me if I lived there, she had seen me so often. I have also raised a horse who was extremely violent and untrusting, dangerous, one that people had given up on and ended up with a beautiful, loyal animal after many many years of work. You need to understand where I am coming from (and where others who post here are coming from, who do rescue these dumped dogs all of the time). We know a little something about frustrating canine behaviour.

I am on the fence about whether Matty's life will be better if you keep him or if you rehome him. As your trainer said, rehoming him could be a death sentence (or a life sentence which could even be worse). He could go from bad home to bad home. Maybe your family is the best one matty will ever have.

Certainly the way he is behaving is not going to be attractive to a potential owner. You have a responsibility to Matty to get him at least to the point where he could have a positive new life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayeddog
I question if any of you have even tried to understand how difficult a decision it is from my perspective, and what we've gone through emotionally?
Of course. But you have a voice and you have power, and the dog does not. In the end, you come here and vent, and we try and read between the lines to help, but sometimes we read (what might not be true...) impatience, selfcenteredness, unwillingness to try. These characteristics are usually in direct conflict with pet ownership.

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Originally Posted by sprayeddog
Don't tell me owner-dog relationship is not a 2-way street. You go the extra mile to try to build a better relationship, and your dog jumps up to bite your hand. Now tell me that doesn't break your heart.
As LR said, it is not. Sorry that's not what you want to hear. Animals are not people and sometimes they don't meet our expectations... but that is our fault. It does break your heart when you don't get what you expect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayeddog
Most of you are quite willing to jump to a conclusion that Matty's a dog that's under-cared for and udner-exercised, and I'm a bad owner who hasn't given enough, without even trying to understand how much I've given and sacrificed time-wise, financially and most important emotionally.
OK, here's where I get frustrated.
You came here looking for help and ideas. We gave you the ideas we had from our experiences (get more exercise, etc). Then we are accused of trashing you as a bad owner. Every advice I gave you worked for me. I don't know why it hasn't worked for the two of you- the options are either that you aren't following through on the advice, OR Matty doesn't respond to the tactic, and that's that. You shouldn't be interpreting that advice as us accusing you of being a bad owner necessarily. We don't know you. But in our experience, we've presented some causes for Matty's effects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayeddog
Yes he's disobedient, he's destructive, he drives us absolutely crazy most of the times. I didn't think there's any more that I can give, but then there is.


See Matty has given you a gift already. There is your '2 way street'. Do you know what a valuable lesson is expressed in your quote above?
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  #49  
Old June 12th, 2006, 03:03 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaunders
- Sometimes the most challenging animals can be the most rewarding, after alot of blood, sweat and tears. (meant literally btw) I've owned and worked with a few like that. Make no mistake, it gets worse before it gets better. That is where professional help is so vital. They can help you see if you are going to turn a corner or if you are following a dead end.
I so agree. When you spend so much time with a hard dog, somewhere down the line, you realize that the bond you have with this hard dog is stronger than any bond with any other dog you've had.

I know with Boo, who is 5 and still is stubborn as hell, I see a distinct look in his eye when he's pretending to ignore me. Most people look at him and don't see anything where I see tons of expression and communication. He is still very frustrating at times, but I wouldn't trade him for anything... even if he still manages to run away and end up INSIDE the neighbor's house alone.

The dog might never change, but you will. You'll learn to read him and predict him and give him exactly what he needs- like in the park off leash. Some dogs just need a little trust sometimes.

It can't all be negative attention either, you know, or the dog will think that's all there is and crave it.

I wish you so much luck with Matty... Luck and patience.


Oh and for the two way street- I agree with Lucky... I did everything for my old yellow lab and never got any love back. She was in love with my dad and my bro (who didn't give her the time of day) and didn't have room left for me. But she still made me laugh and was still a dog, and that was enough for me.

Last edited by Prin; June 12th, 2006 at 03:06 PM.
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  #50  
Old June 12th, 2006, 04:01 PM
sprayeddog sprayeddog is offline
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Thanks for some of the nice comments, like happycat and Mehealani's. I really appreciate the kind words.

What I find esepcially offensive, is how I'm questioned of 'unconditional love' and how Matty is my committment and my responsibility.

And that's true, and that's fine, because this is a pet-centric forum, and everything starts from the dog's perspective.

But what about my wife?

How about the woman I married? Don't I have a committment to her as well? Shouldn't I show unconditional love to her as well?

Those who said they followed my story must know I mentioned my wife has had a nervous breakdown. She still can't really stand seeing our house, which we renovated and decorated together and was so nice before, gets destroyed bit by bit day by day.

And she put up with all that, not to mention her depression and all her emotional problem, because she loves me.

If there's anything I am self-centric for, is that I've continued to defer my wife's request to rehome Matty, at the expense of puting my wife through the mental torture which she has been experiencing.

I just don't understand how someone who's been following the story can just overlook something as serious as a nervous breakdown, and make harsh comments like "I feel bad for your kids if you have any".

Sure, we made the decision together to get a lab a year ago, but Matty is a lot more than what we signed up for. I mean, unless you're telling me "lab owners should expect 1 dry wall destroyed every 3 months despite you give him all the exercises you can, and put him in a crate even at 1 yr old" for a lab. Like the local trainer said, she's seen a lot of labs but Matty's destructive nature and energy level is a lot more than what is expected of an usual lab.

I'm willing to go the extra mile, but can I blame my wife for not being as strong as I am when it comes to this matter and suffered nervous breakdown?


I don't know why I come across as unwilling to try. I started posting on this forum when Matty came home with the barking problems. We tried everything that was suggested here, and eventually it worked. Matty then destroyed the first drywall in his fenced area, and we were suggested to get a crate for him, which we did.

Matty's behavior problems continued, and we were suggested to step up the exercise level to tire him down. Which I again, did. First by spending more time to exercise with him, and when that isn't enough, I wake up earlier to run with him.

We were then suggested we should run a boot-camp for Matty. Everything he does should be earned. Which we did.

Later on, we were suggested we should go in opposite direction, and just let Matty be a dog, which we again, did. I spend 40min - 1 hr playing soccer with him everyday, without asking him to do anything but just play, and only correcting him when he does something completely unaccetpable like jumping on me and biting my hand.

We were suggested to spray bitter apple on his leash to get rid of his biting the leash problem, which we tried, but didn't work. I even went as far as shortening the leash to a minimum while we run as per what's suggested here, despite I expected that would trip me over really bad when I'm running at full speed. And sure it did, leaving bad bruises on my elbow, knee and thigh.

I've tried almost everything that was suggested here, which is why I'm just scratching my head why I would come across as an owner who "doesn't try". Some advices work, others don't, but I've always been grateful for every advice that people give me whether they work or not.


As for this '2-way street' thing, let me put it this way. Matty's had all kinds of behaviour problems, and while it doesn't bother me was much if he say, doesn't sit the first time I tell him to, it is a different thing when he is destructive.

So I come here and ask for advice on Matty's destructive behaviour, and I'm suggested to wake up earlier, spend more time exercising with him, spend more time playing with him, tire him down ...

So obviously, while I go the extra mile and do all that, there *is* an expectation. The expectation is not for him to be a model citizen, but at the very least, that the increased exercise would tire him down so he'd be good enough to a point that we can co-exist in the same house.

(I find it funny how I'm told I have the responsibility to at least get Matty to that point so he can be rehomed ... heck, if I can get Matty to that point, then there isn't a need to rehome him at all. I don't really have high expectation for Matty. Just to be a happy dog who isn't destructive.)

So when I step it up, and he doesn't respond with ANY improvement, isn't it normal to be discouraged and disappointed, especially when he continues to be in a destructive state and is wrecking a part of our house every week?!

Or, is expecting a 1 yr old lab not to be destructive too much?

Last edited by sprayeddog; June 12th, 2006 at 04:03 PM.
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  #51  
Old June 12th, 2006, 04:06 PM
LL1 LL1 is offline
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Many dogs are destructive well past being a year old.Where did you get your dog?
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  #52  
Old June 12th, 2006, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayeddog
(I find it funny how I'm told I have the responsibility to at least get Matty to that point so he can be rehomed ... heck, if I can get Matty to that point, then there isn't a need to rehome him at all.
do you find it as funny to think of him going home to home, or being euthanized for his behaviour with someone who is not as great an owner as you are???

I don't find it funny at all.

I think your primary responsibility is to your wife. But, you took on another committment that you couldn't handle. Doesn't matter whose fault, no one ever said life was about having only one responsibility and the rest can go to ****. Now, you don't have to get Matty into training, or pay for even one more thing to make him better. But lots of people reneg on their committments with animals (heck, with people too)... so why should this be any different.

People suggested that you might rethink more dogs/or children and you took offense. But from this last post, I'm in agreement. If there's nervous breakdowns happening for real (hopefully you are not just using this as a term of speech, but really mean the kind where you need medicine and care etc) then for her sake, they really do have a point. Wait until a teenager trashes your house when you're gone. Now there is trouble.
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  #53  
Old June 12th, 2006, 05:17 PM
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dtbmnec dtbmnec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix
do you find it as funny to think of him going home to home, or being euthanized for his behaviour with someone who is not as great an owner as you are???

I don't find it funny at all.
I think he meant it as a sarcastic kind of funny...a "ha-ha" funny not a "i'm going to laugh because its slapstick" kind of funny...

I haven't had a whole lot in the way of dog experience. Heck the only time we had a "pet" was when we were dog sitting a lab. She was well behaved inside but outside.....oh outside was horrible! She was used to an electrified fenced yard and she wasn't taken for walks and had no idea how to walk with someone. I had the (dubious) pleasure of taking her for a walk once or twice (once in the summer time and once in the middle of winter). She was still a puppy, probably about the age Matty was, was probably 150 pounds to my 80 (at the time). The walks.....were not fun....in the winter time I had to be fished out of the snowbank/hedge that she'd run us into by my ankles.....the summer? Well my 85 pounds weren't much deterrent to her to run across the road to visit the neighbours dog and I was told I was a horrible person for "letting" her run across to meet this slightly agressive dog. Telling her to sit didn't work, neither did stay, nothing worked and I was the "bad owner" for trying my hardest to keep her away (I was pulling with all my 85 pound might against her and it was nothing to her...she only had a collar on and it was choking her and she still went after the other dog)

At the time I hated those situations, after a few years I look back on it and laugh (except for the "bad owner" part)....in a few years I'm sure you will look back and laugh at some of these things. Are you seriously not going to look back and laugh at the few spills you've taken with him? At that time that he actually retrieved the ball the first time (even though he might have nipped at you)?

Megan
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  #54  
Old June 12th, 2006, 06:00 PM
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I really hope that you know that others have been where you are, and it can work out. In absolutely understnad your level of frustration, and having a spouse that is not up to the challenge.
Your posts have brought back so many memories of my first years with my two dogs. Picture Matty with a twin bother, except you're a 105lbs and the dogs are 170lbs together and have some very serious prey drive on top of the destruction, through the roof energy level and total lack of any ability to focus on training......oh, and they're pitbulls, so you can imagine what we looked like to people on the street.

Anyway, I'm telling you all this because by the time they had reached 2 years old I had so many scars from being dragged around, had had so many fights with my boyfriend about all of his stuff getting destroyed, and had put so much money into fixing the apartement I was renting that I was very, very close to the point of just giving up, but I am so happy I didn't.

Now that the dogs are almost 5, I can almost miss the days when they were wild beasties, almost. I can't imagine that my relationship with them would be as strong had we not been through so much together. I would not trade one minute with them for anything. The dogs I used to envy, the super easy, well behaved dogs who happily sit by their owners side and ignore the other dogs, squirrels, pigeons, etc, now seem totally boring to me.

I really hope that you can stick with it and get to enjoy the rewards that come from having a dog you really, really had to work at.
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  #55  
Old June 12th, 2006, 06:02 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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I can say that expecting a 1 year old lab to not chew things is expecting too much. My old lab chewed till the day she died. But by then we of course had the house super, super dog proofed and we let her keep a shoe she mangled to chew on just in case.

Labs chew. That is why so many of them are up for adoption at exactly this age. They're cute puppies, but they grow up to be chewers- that's the life of a lab in a nutshell. I don't know why your trainer says it's exceptional, other than maybe that she's trying to get you to keep him.

Will he do poorly in a new home? I have two Matties that in total 7 people couldn't handle. They're wonderful dogs to me. And the proper rescue organization wouldn't adopt Matty to just anyone, given that they would know the FULL truth about him, right? I'm just saying...



Honestly, I'd get a new crate... If he can still chew the outside world from inside the crate, something is wrong with the crate.

Last edited by Prin; June 12th, 2006 at 06:04 PM.
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  #56  
Old June 12th, 2006, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin
Will he do poorly in a new home? I have two Matties that in total 7 people couldn't handle. They're wonderful dogs to me. ].
I completely agree, if he is placed properly. That is why I'm on the fence. If he ends up at the SPCA, he could be sold to the first comer if he makes it out, but a rescue will try to find someone who knows how to handle this type of dog if they can.

Oh, and Megan? If I had an emoticon hitting its head on the wall... duh I know he didn't mean funny.
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  #57  
Old June 12th, 2006, 07:15 PM
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  #58  
Old June 12th, 2006, 07:20 PM
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many thanks. i'll have to learn how to do that, i know someone explained it in another thread
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  #59  
Old June 12th, 2006, 07:22 PM
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Sorry for the threadjack, go to www.bestsmileys.com hit page index, click the subject and copy the URL for the smiley and paste it here.
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Old June 12th, 2006, 07:32 PM
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yup, there's even a whole section for "frustrated" smileys
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