Divorce and Pets - Page 2 - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans

OntarioGreys · #31 June 22nd, 2006, 08:51 PM

One lawyer site for Ontario says that what each person brings into the relationship is their and their is no laws regarding division of property in a common law relationship, which had me scratching my head since my own lawyer from 15 years ago told me different when I seperated, so I dug a bit deeper

Division of assets in Ontario

Quote:

Division of property is dealt with in Ontario under the Family Law Act, which is a provincial law.

The family home (also known as the "matrimonial home") is dealt with separately from other property by the law. The family home is defined to mean anywhere the family has lived -- a house owned by the family, a rented apartment or house, a mobile home, even a tent if that is where the family has lived are all considered "matrimonial homes." Particularly where there has been violence in the relationship, the victim of that abuse (almost always the woman) is likely to be allowed to remain in the home, regardless of whose name is on the deed or lease. The issue of dividing up its value will be dealt with separately.

The written law about division of property refers specifically to married couples. However, case law now "imputes" (or assigns) the same rights of property division to couples, both heterosexual or same sex, who have an established common law relationship.

At its most basic, the law says couples who cohabit have entered into a partnership and all property accumulated by the couple over the years of cohabitation is to be divided equally between them, regardless of who paid for it or whose name it is registered in (as in the case of a home, cottage, boat, car, etc.). The intent of this approach is to respect the contributions made by both members of the couple, even if one of those contributions has been largely non-financial. This has benefitted women enormously, who have traditionally been the ones to leave work or reduce their hours of work in order to raise the children.

Property brought into the relationship by either party continues to belong to that person unless they turn it into joint property. An example of this might be where one person has some money saved up that is used to buy the family home.

There are certain exceptions to the automatic equal sharing of property accumulated during the marriage that we will not deal with here.

Where the couple are also in business together (for example, running a family farm) there are other considerations that must be taken into account when dividing up property.

Property includes pensions, jewellery, art, antiques, investments and savings, real estate and all of the everyday possessions that most families have.

If the couple is able to agree upon a division of property between themselves, this is perfectly acceptable.

If they are not, and they turn to lawyers, mediators or the courts to assist them, they will have to prepare a financial statement that includes detailed information about all the property that each of them owns. What usually happens is that the person whose property is worth more than the other pays money to her (the woman most often has less property than the man) so that the value of the property is "equalized."

There are some time limits to when a person can begin a claim for a division of property, but a considerable amount of time is allowed for the two people to separate and sort out any immediate issues such as custody and support before they must deal with the issue of property.
For more information, see our fact sheet Division of Property.

Quote:

Several provinces have already begun to amend their legislation. Since 1997, British Columbia has amended numerous statutes, including six core statutes, to add same-sex couples. In June 1999, Quebec amended 28 statutes and 11 regulations to grant same-sex couples the same benefits and obligations that are available to opposite-sex common-law couples. And in October 1999, to comply with the Supreme Court decision in M. v.H., Ontario passed omnibus legislation to bring 67 statutes into compliance with the ruling.

Laws and statutes can change from one year to the next, a judge who makes a ruling in one case can set a precendent for future similiar cases, which can be different from the the law or where no current law applies, In Quebec there are no laws governing the division of assets in common law relationships,(that I can find online) but because Quebec has the highest number of common-law relationships there are likely a lot of precendents that have been set from prior court cases, and from those a lawyer can give advise on what would likely happen should end up going to court.

This is the reason I advised her to get her belongings out of the home especially if she has contributed the greater portion, if she tells him she is leaving and he tells her to get out immediately and she can't take her belonging right away, she may have trouble trying to recover in a court and it will also get quite expensive with legal fees, which in the end may not make it worth the cost to recover, it is better to get hoer belonging she wants out first, he may not find it worth the cost of a lawyer to fight to claim them as his. It has nothing to do with being cowardly, it is just a means to ensure she keeps her own property without having to go through a huge cost to recover should he decide to make things difficult for her out of anger and spite. When I left my husband I had to leave all my belongings behind, he destroyed and tossed my belongings in the garbage, which left me starting off a new life with a child with nothing, sure some items are replaceable but school and life momentos, gifts from those then deceased and photo albums are not, and losing those hurt a lot.

glasslass · #32 June 22nd, 2006, 09:51 PM

I can't quote actual statistics. I'm just thinking about a TV program dealing with abuse. It said that while not every man who destroys property goes on to physically abuse a partner, the majority of abusers started by breaking things, sometimes even injuring or killing family pets. Also, that the most dangerous period is when a woman first leaves or obtains a restraining order. You have to follow your gut instinct. If you're afraid of his temper tantrums, and your dogs become afraid, you have to insure your, and your pets' safety first. Then deal with the breakup however you feel best. If there's any chance of violence, be sure someone is present that he respects enough to keep himself civil. Good luck!

Luvmypit · #33 June 23rd, 2006, 03:53 PM

So sorry you have to go through this!!

Everyone gave you great advice so not much to add. I can only comment on what i would do after given such good advice and many options. I would send all animals you are taking to families house, board Zoe. I would pack, load everything into a car and wait for him on the front steps. Ask to talk while the male relative or friend is in the car waiting and can see the both of you. I was just thinking if you show up with a bunch of people or even one then he may feel threatened and embarassed. He shouldn't be made out to be the bad guy and by having some guy listen in on your break up can be overwhelming and may cause him to be more defensive. That way you can do it to his face, he can say his peace and get some closure hopefully ( you want to avoid him wanting further clarification and correspondance) and at the same time you have a relative monitoring the situation and able to help or summon help if need be.
Ok so I guess i did have more advice... lol ...

I hope for the best and whatever you decide will be fine. You are the one in the situation and you are the one who can determine the safest and most amicable way to seperate because you know him and you know you.

So good luck and keep us updated and always be safe!!!!

Copper'sMom · #34 June 26th, 2006, 07:26 PM

Thank you all so much for your advice. We had an incident the other day in regards to Zoe staying with me at my mom's for 2 weeks as I will be taking care of my grandmother while my mom and hubby are on holidays. He just about flew off the handle in front of my family. My nieces and nephews were running around, so everyone was to busy to notice the way he was talking to me but I do know that Zoe will be a huge issue in my leaving. I've decided to wait until my parents are back from holidays before I move out. I'm scared he may harass me and I need my Mom and hubby for moral support - especially my Mom. I can't do this alone.
I have decided to pack and move while he's at work. I will write him a letter and give all the reasons on why I did it this way and how I feel. I'm scared of him and I just can't deal with his temper. I have been so out of it the last few weeks - scared and sick. I feel like I'm going crazy and I can't relax until I'm gone - until we are gone. Zoe will be boared so she'll be safe. Copper and the cats will be at my mom's. He can take me to court if he wants but there isn't a chance in hell he will ever get Zoe.

Frenchy · #35 June 26th, 2006, 07:52 PM

Copper's mom,I can't wait for you to be outta there.I wish I would live closer so I could help.He just freaked because you wanted to stay at your mom's for two weeks or was it because you wanted to take the dog with you?Either way,not a good reaction from him.So there you have it,BE CAREFUL.And it is a very good idea to leave while he's not there,you might want to take someone with you anyway,just in case,better be safe than,you know.Take care of yourself and I hope your eating more these days,I know,it's not easy but you have to get strenght to get thru this.Keep us posted

Prin · #36 June 26th, 2006, 11:39 PM

Is there something you can do, like notify the cops or something, so that if something does happen, you have proof that there was a threat to begin with and it wasn't out of nowhere?

I really hope you can do this safely. Sounds so scary. I admire you for being so strong.

mona_b · #37 June 27th, 2006, 09:02 AM

Copper'sMom,my heart goes out to.

I know I haven't been on for a while,that's because I just went through what you are going through.It was leading up for some time.But I had to do what was best for me and my daughter(not his)..

I did tell him we were leaving.We left in May,and I told him in April.Things did get quiet in the house.We moved in with him.So it was already his house in his name.So I didn't have to worry about buying him out.I took what was mine and my daughters.

As for the pets.WellTron was mine.I brought him into the house.So of course he came with me.We got Casper and Winnie(cats) together.I paid for the adoption of Casper,and he did for Winnie.Both were in his name.Reason being he used his vet.I was and still am using my vet in Toronto for Tron.I was worried about the cats.I didn't want to leave them with him.He wasn't as responsible for them as I was.So he said they were better off with me.So I have them.

Your situation is a bit different as my other half didn't have anger issues.

My suggestion to you is,call your nearest Police Staion.Explain everything to them.Let them know that you are terrified as to the outcome of you leaving,and especially that he will freak once you take Zoe.Tell them about his anger issues.And that you fear him.I would do this now.

Quote:

HI
I don't know how long you have been living together but after a certain period of time (I think 1 yr) The courts consider you to be legally married when it comes to the division of assets.

Actually no.You are not legally married.The only way you are legally married is with a piece of paper.If you buy a house together,then you either decide to sell it or buy one another out.If neither wants to do it,then that's when the courts will decide.

Splitting from a legal marriage and a common-law marriage is different.You divorce from a legal marriage,you don't divorce from a common-law one.It's just called leaving.This is my second "leaving" situation.My first one was of 7 years.

I also need to add this.His temper may not be taken out on you.But PLEASE PLEASE don't think it won't.I have been to those calls.I have seen it all.Please call the station and talk to them now.

Just know you are in my thoughts....

LM1313 · #38 June 27th, 2006, 09:20 AM

I think it's scary that he's willing to fly off the handle at you even when there are other people around. Also that he's so angry because you/Zoe will be at your mother's . . . That sounds controlling on his part.

I definitely think you should leave while he's at work and have someone else with you just in case he unexpectedly comes home. And have a cell phone with you so that you can call the police just in case!

You can get through this.

jesse's mommy · #39 June 27th, 2006, 10:31 AM

I'm glad Mona came on here. I agree with what she said 100%. Please be careful you just never know what triggers people and what is the last straw. There was just a horrible incident here that happened last week where the father was just at his last thread. I won't go into details, but it's just horrible. Please be careful and make sure there are people there to help you. I would say on the "moving" day, the more the better. It's much easier with more hands so if you have more people there to help you get the bulk out fast, go ahead and use them. If I was there I would be happy to help you. I'm a master packer for moves and fast. Please be careful for you and all of your babies sake.

Prin · #40 June 27th, 2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse's mommy

I'm glad Mona came on here.

Me too. I was so hoping she would come in and say to speak to the cops first and she did- which means it's not a waste of time. I so hope everything goes ok.

mona_b · #41 June 27th, 2006, 11:34 PM

It's definately not a waste of time.This man has anger issues.

I really hope Copper'sMom takes my advice and calls ASAP.

catsnatcher-CDN · #42 June 28th, 2006, 07:56 AM

Copper's mom, I know I'm coming in late into the thread but my advice to you is to move while he's at work. Have a moving company briefed on your situation so that they may move everything out fast.

I wouldn't bring the dogs to the OPPs. They are law abiding people who will know they have no right NOT to hand over the dogs to him if he shows up.

Most importantly, I suggest you call either the police or a shelter for women the day you're packing it up. They will stay with you to ensure your safety while you move in case he shows up.

Good Luck and Congrats on your courage to leave :love:

(I just read mona_b's post. I'm glad she suggested getting the police involved also.)

SugarbearPaws · #43 June 29th, 2006, 10:11 AM

Hi,

I'm very sorry about your situation. Is there any chance he might see these posts? Be careful!

Best wishes.

OntarioGreys · #44 June 29th, 2006, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:
HI
I don't know how long you have been living together but after a certain period of time (I think 1 yr) The courts consider you to be legally married when it comes to the division of assets.

Actually no.You are not legally married.The only way you are legally married is with a piece of paper.If you buy a house together,then you either decide to sell it or buy one another out.If neither wants to do it,then that's when the courts will decide.
Splitting from a legal marriage and a common-law marriage is different.You divorce from a legal marriage,you don't divorce from a common-law one.It's just called leaving.This is my second "leaving" situation.My first one was of 7 years.

No it is not the same, but legally treated much the same with regards to division of property as shown in the quote I posted about the family law act of Ontario.

Quote:

The written law about division of property refers specifically to married couples. However, case law now "imputes" (or assigns) the same rights of property division to couples, both heterosexual or same sex, who have an established common law relationship.

And it is this law that my own lawyer was discussing with me and it can even include spousal support and pensions, we lived together for 7 years as well had no children together, our common-law seperation was over 13 years ago

Copper'sMom · #45 June 29th, 2006, 09:25 PM

Good to hear from you Mona_b! Yes I have been thinking about talking to the police. I know a few officers who will help me out and two of them happen to be the owners of Zoe's doggy daycare kennel that she attends.

I am staying at my mom's for 2 weeks while they are on holidays. When my mom and hubby come back is when I'm moving out. I do plan on having one or two people there with me.

We rent so there is no nonsense involved with the house etc. My name isn't on anything(bills etc).

Quote:

I'm very sorry about your situation. Is there any chance he might see these posts? Be careful!

None whatsoever!! I've taken care of that long ago.

I am so thankful that you all understand the love we have for our pets. If Zoe wasn't involved, it would be much easier. People think I'm crazy because I am putting Zoe's needs before mine. People don't understand that I can't just up and leave her behind or find her a new home!

"She's just a dog" they tell me!

I have thought about it very very briefly(ok, imagined it for a second) what life would be like without her...............and it would be hell. A huge part of my heart would be gone. As much work as she is, I wouldn't trade her for anything in the world.

It's not going to be easy staying with my mom and hubby either. My 92 yr old grandmother lives here as well. One level house, my 2 dogs and 2 cats, my mom's dog and 2 cats and my mom's hubby. My mom's hubby and I have had many issues over the last 13 years. I love him very much and appreciate everything he does, but he's not the easiest man to get along with! lol But it's better than where I'm at now and this is only temporary until I get my life back on track. I have more stuggles to deal with after this one is over.

But for now, I have 2 weeks holidays - no work(except taking care of grandma

), high speed internet

, pool, hot tub and my 3 out of 4 kids:love: so I'm going to take time and relax!

babyrocky1 · #46 June 29th, 2006, 09:44 PM

Oh Coppers Mom, I just pmed you before i read this, if you want to send me moms # Ill phone you there!

babyrocky1 · #47 June 29th, 2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copper'sMom

I am staying at my mom's for 2 weeks while they are on holidays. When my mom and hubby come back is when I'm moving out. I do plan on having one or two people there with me.

We rent so there is no nonsense involved with the house etc. My name isn't on anything(bills etc).

But for now, I have 2 weeks holidays - no work(except taking care of grandma

), high speed internet

, pool, hot tub and my 3 out of 4 kids:love: so I'm going to take time and relax!

Im glad to see you have an "out" for now and a short term plan, I know this has been coming along time and you have really thought this out as best as you can, its time to act. I know I dont need to tell you that. I think that if he were to harrass you over Zoe it would be mostly just to have something over your head and I dont think he would actually go to court over her. It would make interesting news coverage though. "pittie custody battle"... anyways, relaxing for two weeks is long over due, so try and take advantage of the time and enjoy your vacation with your babys and grandma! Any luck on the places we were talking about?

babyrocky1 · #48 June 29th, 2006, 10:03 PM

[Gret Advice Mona, and Im so sorry to hear of your situation as well but very glad that your back!

I hope things are back on track for you and your daughter now.

mona_b · #49 July 1st, 2006, 09:35 AM

Great to hear.Please talk to them.I am sure they won't hesitate to help/be there for you.....

.

When the time comes for you to move,and once you have moved,PLEASE be careful.This is why I hope you talk to them now.I'm just more worried for you once you are gone from there.He can make you life a living hell.

Quote:

But for now, I have 2 weeks holidays - no work(except taking care of grandma ), high speed internet , pool, hot tub and my 3 out of 4 kids so I'm going to take time and relax!

Ummmmmmmm,can I come over?????............

babyrocky1,things have been pretty good.I enjoy being on my own.And she is doing well.Just have 2 issues with her that is stressing me.But I'll deal with it...

Prin · #50 July 1st, 2006, 11:20 AM

You both are such strong women.

Copper'sMom · #51 July 10th, 2006, 08:08 PM

Ok, it's done.......................................but my stuff is still at the house.

He came by my mom's and was asking when i'd be coming home.....if i was coming home at all. He knew something was up. So, I told him i didn't know what i wanted and that i was happy here. Then he left.

Then he called and ranted on the phone for over an hour. I didn't have much to say as I am numb. He wants Zoe and I told him to take me to court if he wants her.

Frenchy · #52 July 10th, 2006, 08:20 PM

I'm glad it's done

But now you have to be careful.I think we all told you not to go to the house ALONE.I hope he doesn't make any trouble with Zoe,or any problem att all.BE CAREFUL and keep us posted.I hope everything will go smoothly.Congrat on your new life!

glasslass · #53 July 10th, 2006, 08:27 PM

Stand firm as the next thing he'll probably do is try to make you feel sorry for him and guilty.

technodoll · #54 July 10th, 2006, 08:34 PM

be strong... and be assured that this too, shall pass. in a little while you'll be wondering why you waited so long to start your New Wonderful Life! hugs from a been-there, done-that girl...

Copper'sMom · #55 July 10th, 2006, 08:40 PM

So now I have no idea what to do from here! I think I'll put Zoe in the kennel for a few days for her safety and one less thing for me to worry about right now. I can't just leave my mom's all day as I have to be here for my Grandma. On Wedensday, I can get away for the day as my aunt will be here.

I think i will call the police and ask them to escort me to the house to get my stuff - even if he's not there.

He wants my car too. He bought it (used $1000) but it's in my name. I don't have a clue as to whether or not he can take it illegally.

I think he's just shooting off his mouth because he's pretty upset. I really don't know what to believe as he says things alot and then changes his mind about it.

Once i get my stuff, then i can relax! hopefully!

Skryker · #56 July 10th, 2006, 09:03 PM

Congrats! I know this has been very hard and stressful for you.

The police escort is a good idea-not only is it safer for you, but you have witnesses to what gets said and done. If he says "OK, you can take that." or "Yes, that's yours." in front of the cops, he can't very well change his mind later.

As for the car, if it is in your name, it's your car. He would have to go to court and prove he paid for it and that it wasn't a gift, I think, in order to claim it. (That is just my opinion-I'm not sure WHAT the law might be).

Please don't relax too much, too soon. I know you want it over, but...my aunt's former husband harassed her for years, and tried to run her off the road almost 5 years after their divorce. I don't mean to scare you, but please be careful!

Prin · #57 July 10th, 2006, 09:46 PM

that everything goes ok and you're free.

mummummum · #58 July 11th, 2006, 01:17 AM

Hey Copper'sMom - it's a tough and scary thing to do but it sounds like you're making it through the worst of it. And you're right - he may be nothing but hot air and empty threats. You know your ex best but we truly never know what someone is capable of (and in some cases, the good they are capable of) and in my experience safety is THE all-important factor in leaving a relationship such as yours.

But, as you know manipulation, control, anger and physical violence are a continuum. Taking concrete steps to make sure you KNOW you are as safe as you can be is also good for your peace of mind and your feeling of self-worth and accomplishment. You are doing something that takes alot of courage, determination and inner-strength.

Taking these steps may seem to be a bit overboard but at the end of the day it's your safety we're talking about:

Taking calls from him or agreeing to see him (accepting mail from him, speaking to his friends or family at his request etc.) is likely to fuel his frustration, rage and sense of impotence. It also allows him to maintain a measure of control over you, your time and your emotions.

Speaking with your local Police frankly about your situation and involving them with retrieving your belongings is a must.

Program 911 as a 1 touch into your cell and keep it on at all times. Buy a spare battery so that you can always keep it "live".

Program 911 into the landline where you are staying if that is possible.

Arrange a code word or phrase with your parents and your friends so that if something happens and they call or you are able to call them they will know to contact the Police immediately.

If you have a coworker or supervisor whom you can trust, tell them about your situation so that they can keep an eye out for you while you are at work. Ask for an escort to and into your car by a co-worker if you have any reason to be concerned.

If you go out for a night on the town have some one pick you up and see you into the well-lit house.

If he starts to escalate the number of phone calls or you start to see him in unexpected places, arrange a safe house completely unknown to him and preferably unknown to your parents and friends.

Stay focussed only on that which cannot be replaced - you and your dogs and cats. Worry about your stuff when some or all of the numbness wears off and you are thinking clearly.Then you can plan for "what tomorrow may bring".

If I can be of any help in accessing local resources for women, women in crisis or housing please feel free to pm me - I'm happy to help.

You're courageous kiddo and we're all behind you here.

mona_b · #59 July 11th, 2006, 04:52 AM

Well you just took the first step....

sista....

You CAN do this.You have to be tough now.Don't take any crap from him what so ever.Definately get the escort to your place.He may not start anything while they are there,but that doesn't mean he won't give you a hard time later.Have you talked to the cops about your situation?

Once everything is out,don't make any contact with him.Don't take any calls.And if you have to,change any numbers he has.I know it's a hassel,but it needs to be done.Do NOT go and meet him anywhere.

Cut the ties and go on with your life.And after a while he will give up.I hope.

If you need to talk,pm me......

Thank you Prin.I stand by the saying,what doesn't kill you makes you stronger...