English Bulldog-like temperament

[brecker]

Originally Posted by hazelrunpack

Yes, most older setters in that couch potato phase will get by with little exercise. There are rescues for English Setters that often have older dogs available...so yes, the OP could find one.

Makes sense - nice dog no doubt, but lacks the bulldog trait. Completely different beasts here

[brecker]

Originally Posted by bendyfoot

Ok, I'll chime in with my . Emotions and personal experiences aside, I think both "sides" here have legitimate arguments.

Brecker: I agree that FOR ETHICAL, RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS (unfortunately a rare breed themselves), breed descriptions will guide them to produce dogs that conform to the breed standard in terms of personality. I see "herding" personality traits in my collieX, "terrier" personality traits in my terrierX, and "shepherd" personality traits in my Shepherd. I can honestly say that if I was going to buy a purebred dog, I would be looking for a breed whose described personality matched my hopes/expectations of an "ideal" personality type. I would use these described traits as one tool in my decision-making when choosing a breed, because I would expect them to be as described...

which then leads me to...

natural variability in character/personality REGARDLESS of breed. I think BenMax and Baily et al. also have a valid point: while breed standards are imporant tools, they also describe the IDEAL of the breed (physically, behaviourally etc.) and this is not always acheived even with carefully planned breedings. Take Sheps for example...most will have some "drive" if bred properly, but that degree of driveyness will vary significantly from pup to pup even in the same litter. Buying a particular dog based on breed alone could be a recipe for disaster or shattered expectations. For that reason, if I settled on, say, another Shepherd as a purebred dog of my dreams, I would work closely with the breeder to help me pick the pup that was best suited for my family and my expectations in terms of its personality...that's why responsible breeders don't let buyers pick their own puppies; because each dog is different.

Then, if you're talking a mixed breed, well, you can throw breed standards right out the window IMO. You just cannot possibly predict an animal's personality based on its POSSIBLE mixes (which are often "guesses" at best). My herding mix acts a bit like a terrier, a bit like a border collie, a bit like a husky and a bit like... Jaida, the closest thing I have to a purebred, looks every bit a German Shepherd, but has some personality traits that you would not expect from a shep: she has little to no drive, wouldn't touch another creature with her mouth to save her life, is quite timid and nervous in new places/with new people...BUT she is a good alert-dog, is wonderful with children.


I think it's important to recognize that breeds can and do possess very breed-specific traits and characteristics, but that you can't just "judge a book by its cover", so to speak, and be careful of overgeneralizing, especially uneducated comments perpetrated by the media (speaking here of breed-ban-type speak)...

All good! But I still stand with my "generalization" of types of breeds. We are dealing with "exceptions" after this point.

[hazelrunpack]

Originally Posted by brecker

Makes sense - nice dog no doubt, but lacks the bulldog trait. Completely different beasts here

Which traits? The OP specified temperament...and what he described is pretty similar.

Certainly, other breeds don't share the conformation traits of bulldogs, but the OP sounded more interested in temperament.

[hazelrunpack]

Oh, this is silly! How many 'exceptions' do you need to hear about before being convinced that breed standards as to temperament mean very little. Dogs are individuals as much as people are. We have 8 setters, not all of them typical of the standard.

[brecker]

Originally Posted by hazelrunpack

Which traits? The OP specified temperament...and what he described is pretty similar.

Certainly, other breeds don't share the conformation traits of bulldogs, but the OP sounded more interested in temperament.

From the OP:

"Up until recently I have always wanted a Bulldog. Not only do I find their appearance great, but those I've known have always had highly appealing personalities."

I know exactly what the OP means - you just need to know the breed I just don't see a setter fitting the bill is all.

I thought a Sharpei might be good, but the OP has reservations on health and breeding ethics - where the Sharpei fails miserable (IMO) as well, just like the bulldog.

[hazelrunpack]

Have you had many setters?

Never mind....

I was just offering the OP a new direction to look in. It's amazing where you can lose your heart once you open your mind to a new direction. You seem to be set on stereotyping, brecker, but the world isn't all black and white. I predict the OP will find a soul mate in an unexpected place and wish him or her all the luck in the world!

[marko]

HRP makes a GRRRReat point.
Just because your particular dog brecker fits the breed standard exactly, does not mean that all purebreds will or should act according to the standard.

The standard is for people who show dogs. They take great pains to ensure that the look and behaviour matches the standard as closely as possible.

and they represent WAY WAY less than 1% of dog owners.

Most dog owners know little about what the breed is supposed to act, so THEY themselves influence the dog's behaviour by how THEY interact with the dog. Sure herding dogs were meant to herd, but now that they have nothing to do (with most pet owners) new behaviours emerge and the standard is less accurate for that couch potato herding dog.

Will some purebreds act according to the breed's standard in some ways? Yes, probably. Will doing this research beforehand help in making a good choice. Yes it will. But to suggest that these standards are anything more than a guideline, imo, is very naive and discounts the whole 'nurture' part of the nature/nurture debate.

[brecker]

Originally Posted by hazelrunpack

Have you had many setters?

Never mind....

I was just offering the OP a new direction to look in. It's amazing where you can lose your heart once you open your mind to a new direction. You seem to be set on stereotyping, brecker, but the world isn't all black and white. I predict the OP will find a soul mate in an unexpected place and wish him or her all the luck in the world!

Have you had many bulldogs? It's not black & white - but it sure isn't one shade of gray.

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by brecker

Have you had many bulldogs? It's not black & white - but it sure isn't one shade of gray.

I think you are taking the following out of context. HPR is very well versed in genetics and all that 'stuff'. Heck even I would not challenge her on this subject as she could very well make mince meat out of all of us.

Nothing is grey, but you have to be open to it as it does infact exist.

Let me give you a very quick example if I may. I rescued now a few GSD guard dogs. One had been 'guarding' for 10 years. The other is a young 1 year old GSD, and his mom - again both guard dogs. Never one of these dogs bite, have aggression issues, herd etc... they are all soft, gentle dogs.

This is totally off topic I understand however relevant at the same time.

[brecker]

Originally Posted by marko

HRP makes a GRRRReat point.
Just because your particular dog brecker fits the breed standard exactly, does not mean that all purebreds will or should act according to the standard.

The standard is for people who show dogs. They take great pains to ensure that the look and behaviour matches the standard as closely as possible.

and they represent WAY WAY less than 1% of dog owners.

Most dog owners know little about what the breed is supposed to act, so THEY themselves influence the dog's behaviour by how THEY interact with the dog. Sure herding dogs were meant to herd, but now that they have nothing to do (with most pet owners) new behaviours emerge and the standard is less accurate for that couch potato herding dog.

Will some purebreds act according to the breed's standard in some ways? Yes, probably. Will doing this research beforehand help in making a good choice. Yes it will. But to suggest that these standards are anything more than a guideline, imo, is very naive and discounts the whole 'nurture' part of the nature/nurture debate.

I said. It's a sound start when going to the local shelter to pick out a dog. right?

I haven't met a purebred dog that didn't "ACT" in some way shape or form like it genetically was made to.

The OP is not going to find a golden retriever with the character traits of a bulldog. Find me a border colie that's doesn't "act" like a border colie? My spaniel ran through bushes, my rotty protected, and my bully is a quintessential bully.

I get your point, lets not start to brush all dogs with the same "trait" brush just yet.

[brecker]

So now a person cannot "stereotype" pure-bred dogs? When did this happen? I must have been sleeping the last 100 years.

[brecker]

Originally Posted by BenMax

I think you are taking the following out of context. HPR is very well versed in genetics and all that 'stuff'. Heck even I would not challenge her on this subject as she could very well make mince meat out of all of us.

Nothing is grey, but you have to be open to it as it does infact exist.

Let me give you a very quick example if I may. I rescued now a few GSD guard dogs. One had been 'guarding' for 10 years. The other is a young 1 year old GSD, and his mom - again both guard dogs. Never one of these dogs bite, have aggression issues, herd etc... they are all soft, gentle dogs.

This is totally off topic I understand however relevant at the same time.

Great. If you had 100 dogs of every breed in your backyard, I'm sure a good chunk of the "bites" would be from the GSD's.

[hazelrunpack]

Originally Posted by brecker

When did this happen? I must have been sleeping the last 100 years.

You're much older than you come across on the internet

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by brecker

Great. If you had 100 dogs of every breed in your backyard, I'm sure a good chunk of the "bites" would be from the GSD's.

You my friend are a danger to canine society with your generalizations and sterotyping. Shame!

That's all I have to say.

[Bailey_]

Great. If you had 100 dogs of every breed in your backyard, I'm sure a good chunk of the "bites" would be from the GSD's.

I've been trying to stay out of this, but I couldn't help but laugh when I read this.

Brecker, I think you should've stopped at "I get your point,"....

[brecker]

Where do I get these rose coloured glasses people seem to be wearing?

Yes your GSD's are not nipping, guarding, herding, black and tan dogs (all white, or even black), they are small mules wearing costumes that can talk bullfrog.

[brecker]

A retriever is the "best" dog at retrieving.

[brecker]

A Saluki is the fastest and best "seeing" dog in the world. And will probably chase anything that moves.

[bendyfoot]

Ok, WHAT? Please tell me that you just don't know an incredibly inappropriate "joke" when you tell one...

[brecker]

nope.

Did I prove my point yet?

It's a strong case that I'm right in ALL statements.

[brecker]

what are we afraid of?

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by brecker

nope.

Did I prove my point yet?

It's a strong case that I'm right in ALL statements.

Ok you are right.

SingedbytheAsianwhoflunkedenglishduetopoorsentance structure.

[breeze]

Originally Posted by brecker

nope.

Did I prove my point yet?

It's a strong case that I'm right in ALL statements.

no you haven't proved anything except you only see what you want to see. and what you want to believe in.. AND that you can attack dog breeds and people.

[brecker]

Originally Posted by BenMax

You my friend are a danger to canine society with your generalizations and sterotyping. Shame!

That's all I have to say.

The dangers are people getting dogs that they really have no idea what they are getting. That's the danger!

[Bailey_]

Originally Posted by brecker

what are we afraid of?

And I don't even understand what point you're attempting to make.

Let it go. You continue taking this thread off topic and discounting a lot of great information that knowledgable people have already shared with you.

SingedbytheAsianwhoflunkedenglishduetopoorsentance structure

[breeze]

Originally Posted by brecker

The dangers are people getting dogs that they really have no idea what they are getting. That's the danger!

that is why people have to do research and talk to people, and see for themselves and not stereotype and put all dogs in categories!!!!!!
like you are doing....

[brecker]

Originally Posted by breeze

that is why people have to do research and talk to people, and see for themselves and not stereotype and put all dogs in categories!!!!!!
like you are doing....

It's too bad others don't. Really - this is a shame. Start getting/choosing a breed for WHAT THEY WERE BRED FOR!

People will soon realize I'm an advocate for dogs. Not the problem.

[Bailey_]

It's too bad others don't. Really - this is a shame. Start getting a breed for WHAT THEY WERE BRED FOR!

Should I link you to the wonderful comments that Marko and Bendyfoot made regarding breed type? Or, do you just want to scroll up there and read it for yourself?

[marko]

This thread has run it's course and will now be closed.

The racist 'joke' statements are in poor taste and will be deleted. Do not make these types of statements again brecker; consider this a warning and do NOT respond to this in an open forum...by PM only.

If/When the OP comes back please PM me and I will reopen the thread.

Thx
Marko

[brecker]

So... Did you choose a dog?