Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Cat health - Ask members * If your pet is vomiting-bleeding-diarrhea etc. Vet time!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 4th, 2015, 02:30 PM
Kallima_butterf's Avatar
Kallima_butterf Kallima_butterf is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Alberta
Posts: 18
Question 16 year old cat developed diabetes

Hello. My kitty was diagnosed with diabetes 3 weeks ago. I'm having a bit of a struggle with him. He hates the needle and I feel bad hurting him. I have to give him 2 units of caninsulin every morning and night with in 12 hours of each shot. Hrs starting to run and he complains big time when I do the needle. I use a 29 gauge 1/2" needle and although the vet said I could reuse the needles 4 times I max out at 2 because any shots using the same needle seem to really upset him. I don't want this to change his personality. He's such a cuddle cat. Is there any way to do this easier? I do tent the skin like the vet showed me and vary the spot I inject.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old January 5th, 2015, 05:30 PM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallima_butterf View Post
I use a 29 gauge 1/2" needle and although the vet said I could reuse the needles 4 times
Yikes, the vet actually told you to reuse the needles? Not a good idea. Here is a pic of what a needles looks like when used more than once:



Also, you might want to get a finer gauge needle. You don't have to use the U40 Caninsulin syringes. You can get 31 gauge (the higher the number, the skinnier the needle) BD Ultrafine II syringes (3/10 cc, "shorts") from any pharmacy, probably for less than you're paying for the U40 ones.:


These will be for a U100 insulin (which means there are 100 units of insulin in 1 ml, as opposed to U40, which means 40 units of insulin in 1 ml), but you can do a conversion so you can still use them with a U40 insulin such as Caninsulin. Conversion chart here at this link, but basically if you're supposed to give your cat 2 units in a U40 syring, that equals 5 units on a U100 syringe. http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

Has your kitty had a blood glucose curve done yet? Are you interested in home testing his blood glucose (bg) to save money, and get more accurate results? Lots of info on that here: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Ho..._blood_glucose

What does your cat eat these days? Is it the same or different than what he was eating pre-diagnosis?
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old January 6th, 2015, 11:45 PM
Kallima_butterf's Avatar
Kallima_butterf Kallima_butterf is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Alberta
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post

Also, you might want to get a finer gauge needle. You don't have to use the U40 Caninsulin syringes. You can get 31 gauge (the higher the number, the skinnier the needle) BD Ultrafine II syringes (3/10 cc, "shorts") from any pharmacy, probably for less than you're paying for the U40 ones.
These will be for a U100 insulin (which means there are 100 units of insulin in 1 ml, as opposed to U40, which means 40 units of insulin in 1 ml), but you can do a conversion so you can still use them with a U40 insulin such as Caninsulin. Conversion chart here at this link, but basically if you're supposed to give your cat 2 units in a U40 syring, that equals 5 units on a U100 syringe.
Wholly crap it may be my imagination but those tiny needles seem to not even phase him. Could it be. I only just brought them and used the first one today. And I threw it out after one use. These needles cost me 38 cents verses the 63 cents.

What is a blood glucose curve?
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Kallima_butterf; January 7th, 2015 at 12:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old January 7th, 2015, 08:36 AM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallima_butterf View Post
Wholly crap it may be my imagination but those tiny needles seem to not even phase him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallima_butterf View Post
What is a blood glucose curve?
That's when the blood glucose levels are checked at regular intervals (for instance, every 2 hours) over a 12 or 24 hr period. A human glucometer can be used, and the blood is typically tested from the edge of the cat's ear using a lancet device. This can provide valuable information about how effective that particular dose of insulin is, like when the onset is, when the nadir (lowest bg level) is, how long it's lasting, etc. When the numbers are graphed, it tends to look like a U shaped curve, thus the name. It's the best way to figure out if the cat is on the right dose of insulin. Often done in a vet clinic ($$$), they don't tend to be very accurate in that situation because stress can falsely elevate the levels.
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old January 7th, 2015, 02:43 PM
Kallima_butterf's Avatar
Kallima_butterf Kallima_butterf is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Alberta
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
Often done in a vet clinic ($$$), they don't tend to be very accurate in that situation because stress can falsely elevate the levels.
Wasn't even offered to me. I was just told to bring him in in two weeks and we would see how he was doing.

Ps the pharmacist at Walmart said if I bring in my insulin she can match it to human insulin and it would be the same and cheaper. Do u know anything about that route sugarcatmom?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old January 7th, 2015, 02:44 PM
Kallima_butterf's Avatar
Kallima_butterf Kallima_butterf is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Alberta
Posts: 18
Diet: Oyster's diet use to consist of nutro natural choice weight management crunchies with 6-7 little temptation treats in the morning a a teaspoon of friskies wet pate cat food at night. He seems to be highly constipated (noticed before diabetes was diagnosed).

Now he has (as per vet) 1/4 of a tin of wet food (the large tins that friskies comes in) in the morning and again at night so something is in his system for the insulin. The doctor did want him on a high fibre wet food but he shoved his nose up at the science hill d/m wet food and at the max cat wet food I tried which was close in fibre to science hill. Tonight I gave him fancy feast which is not much up from friskies but it's all I could find in Walmart. I don't live near a pet store and will have to try another brand out next time I get there.

He needs to urinate often and heavy and he drinks like crazy.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old January 7th, 2015, 04:49 PM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallima_butterf View Post
Wasn't even offered to me. I was just told to bring him in in two weeks and we would see how he was doing.
Right, they'll probably do a "spot check" (a single blood glucose check), which won't be enough to really gauge how he's doing overall (it's only a tiny snapshot of the bigger picture and should definitely not be the only basis for a dose adjustment).

Another option is what's called a fructosamine test, a blood test that shows the average glucose levels over a longer period of time (around 2 weeks). Problem with the fructosamine is that it doesn't show the highs and lows, so it can look perfectly normal when in fact the bg levels were wildly fluctuating (something called "Somogyi Rebound", from too much insulin). Dose adjustments should not be made based on fructosamine tests either. More info here: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Fructosamine

One way to monitor at home, if you don't feel up to trying bg testing yourself just yet, is to measure the amount of water he drinks every day. Pour the same volume into his water dish (say, 500ml) twice a day, then 12 hours later around the same time that you give him his shot, pour the remaining amount back into the measuring cup and subtract it from the total. Write down the number in a log book. Again, it isn't enough info to change an insulin dose, but can show trends in how he's doing overall.

A blood glucose curve is still the best way to monitor though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallima_butterf View Post
Ps the pharmacist at Walmart said if I bring in my insulin she can match it to human insulin and it would be the same and cheaper. Do u know anything about that route sugarcatmom?
Not true, Caninsulin is pretty unique (porcine based) and there is no human equivalent. In the world of insulin, it's also one of the cheaper ones (unless your vet is overcharging, which happens a lot).

However, there are some great human insulins that can be used on cats with much better results than Caninsulin (which was originally developed for dogs and is suited more for their slower metabolism). Lantus or Levemir are longer lasting, and although they're more expensive than Caninsulin, they have higher rates of sending cats into remission because of tighter control over blood glucose levels.

There is also a feline-specific insulin called Prozinc that has been used successfully, but I don't know how easy it is to get in Canada. And I don't think it's cheap either.

A great resource for all things diabetes is the Feline Diabetes Message Board, if you haven't found it yet: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/?...1e8307b4ba2e3e
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old January 8th, 2015, 01:46 AM
Kallima_butterf's Avatar
Kallima_butterf Kallima_butterf is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Alberta
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post

A blood glucose curve is still the best way to monitor though.


However, there are some great human insulins that can be used on cats with much better results than Caninsulin (which was originally developed for dogs and is suited more for their slower metabolism). Lantus or Levemir are longer lasting, and although they're more expensive than Caninsulin, they have higher rates of sending cats into remission

I think I will definitely be doing the bg test. Just have to figure out the monitor to use. Do u have any suggestions sugarcatmom? The water test would be too hard with 5 other animals male in the household and I'd hate to lock him up when he's not use to it for test that isn't as good.

If I want to put my baby on Lantus or Levemir is there a conversion chart that u know of or would I talk to the vet first?

I will definitely be checking out the site u recommended.

Thanks for all ur help. I'm am very grateful as I stumble thru this. The needles already made a big difference. He feels them and complains but not as bad.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:36 AM.