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Old August 15th, 2009, 05:22 PM
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An emerging new species . . . . the Coywolf

A Toronto Star article on the emerging Coywolf . . . . a result of human impact on the planet . . .

The larger, highly adaptable animals "have the wolf characteristics of pack hunting and aggression and the coyote characteristics of lack of fear of human-developed areas," says Trent University geneticist Bradley White, who's been studying the hybrids for 12 years.

We're seeing "evolution in action," he says.

But that combination of genetic material from both species has spelled trouble for farmers, who are losing a growing number of livestock to predators.

They report attacks by animals that are bigger, bolder and smarter than regular coyotes. They say hunting in packs to prey on sheep and cattle in broad daylight is becoming a common behaviour.

Durham Region farmers have suffered the most damage to livestock in the province. Last year the food and agriculture ministry paid out a total compensation of $168,000 in the region for 545 dead or injured animals.

Commonly called eastern coyotes, the creatures are actually a mixture of western coyote and eastern wolf that comes from a constantly evolving gene pool, says White, chair and professor of biology in Peterborough.

Going back 100 years, deforestation, wolf control programs and changing habitat, ecosystems and prey conspired to drive down the wolf population. Meanwhile, the number of coyotes whose original range was in western North America grew, thanks to their ability to adapt and reproduce with ease. The two species started to interbreed, White explains.

"In many ways, this animal is a creation of human impact on the planet," says White.


http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/681632

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Old August 15th, 2009, 05:30 PM
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I read that this morning and although I am against killing any animal,I feel for the farmers finding their animals killed in the most horrible way.
I hope they'll find a solution
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Old August 15th, 2009, 06:58 PM
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Farmers know of one solution... its sad but they are protecting their livelihood.

These are prolly the odd coyote ish creatures we had here a few weeks ago, I couldn't believe how "ballsy" they were just walking around the yard

Not fond of the over abundance of wildlife around the new house, but with some settling in I'm sure we'll get used to it.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 09:03 PM
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My opinion may be an unpopular one. And although lOVE all animals..

I see nothing wrong with Hunting for population control. That is why I support Newfoundlands seal hunt. It is for the good of alot of things..
And Although I kinda like the little guys. I am SO glad there is a coyote hunting season here. My uncle hunts coyotes. And I support his wishes.
Now the inhumane practises I do NOT supprt. Like snaring rabbits. I call it "lazy mans hunting". Set the snare and wait for the rabbit to run in and strangle itslef.. Its just terrible. Yet nobody will boycott the thousands of people doing this but they just LOVE trying to shut down the humane practice of seal hunting.
Im sorry people, but its ILLEGAL to hunt the white coats and its ILLEGAL to hit it over the head with a club so paul mcartney can shove that argument up hisbackside. .. Wow, kinda off topic, but went into a little rant..

Id kinda like to see one of these hybrids. I bet they ae beautiful
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Old August 15th, 2009, 09:23 PM
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I hear you, humane is the key and I personally see nothing humane about trapping, I had one of my childhood dogs caught in a snare at my grandmas farm, thankfully she layer down and barked her head off until my dad found her and did not pull away from it

Thing that gets to me is people crying animal rights if a farmer shoots anything that is directly after their livestock, yet if they didn't use drastic measures such as this, many of the same people would throw a fit over prices of meat and or unavailability of it when THEY want it...
"Farmers feed cities" and sometimes prey animals do die so this can be true.
And I am sure vegans or veggietarians would love to know how many smaller animals die so that their veggies wheats and grains are not eaten as well
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Old August 15th, 2009, 09:37 PM
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erykah, have you considered getting a mule or two? They're smart, savvy, and can protect the horses or other livestock from coyotes and/or wolves and I'd venture from 'coywolves', too. Our neighbor's mules will stand still, looking vulnerable till a coyote or wolf gets too close, then come out kicking and stomping. The canids don't stick around very long once the mules get riled.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 10:01 PM
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I personally am not losing any livestock and we have considered getting a mule when the horses come back home but... It's not safe for our dogs to have an animal like a mule around and many of the cattle and goat farmers don't have them here for the same reason as the do have herding dogs working the stock ,llamas too are apparently good to javearound bit I don't know many serious cattle farmers who would even consider it.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 10:04 PM
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Think your dogs would try to get in with the mules? You're right--that could be a problem unless there's some way to dog-proof the enclosures.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 10:28 PM
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The dogs always went in with the horses, for some reason horse poop is a delacacy??? and not to mention the funnest stuff in the world to roll in *rolls eyes*
The only way to dog proof the enclosure here would be chain link fence and well, to me it seems odd to fence the dogs out of their own property right?
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Old August 15th, 2009, 10:35 PM
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well goes to show nature does find a way sometimes to get around problems. it is a really pretty animal from the pic i saw. so sad that we have to control wildlife. sometimes i know its just cause of the way we live. just wish we could all live in harmony.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 10:37 PM
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agreed, it would be nice if we could all live at peace, but definately a really pretty animal
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Old August 15th, 2009, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
"Humans are to blame for making monsters of them," he says. Coyotes are attracted by pet food and garbage left lying around in urban areas, and deadstock on farms.
I agree here, however not all coyotes are in yards because of garbage ect ( take our place for example no one lives here most of the week so there is nothing laying around... But Deadstock is DEFINITELY something that should have tougher rules, as it causes so many problems, more so than just attracting scavengers to the area.
Bury them!
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Old August 16th, 2009, 07:46 PM
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There was an odd incident in Sarnia, Ontario last week, a newspaper deliverer was delivering a paper. He got out of his car, when he returned there was a coyote between him and the vehicle. He turned around aand there wre two more behind him! he rushed the lone one and startled it enough to make it out of the way and got back in the car. Surprised me a bit, didn't think coyotes did that, but a cross with wolves might explain the circling a human.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymomma View Post
My opinion may be an unpopular one. And although lOVE all animals..

I see nothing wrong with Hunting for population control. That is why I support Newfoundlands seal hunt. It is for the good of alot of things..
And Although I kinda like the little guys. I am SO glad there is a coyote hunting season here. My uncle hunts coyotes. And I support his wishes.
Now the inhumane practises I do NOT supprt. Like snaring rabbits. I call it "lazy mans hunting". Set the snare and wait for the rabbit to run in and strangle itslef.. Its just terrible. Yet nobody will boycott the thousands of people doing this but they just LOVE trying to shut down the humane practice of seal hunting.
Im sorry people, but its ILLEGAL to hunt the white coats and its ILLEGAL to hit it over the head with a club so paul mcartney can shove that argument up hisbackside. .. Wow, kinda off topic, but went into a little rant..

Id kinda like to see one of these hybrids. I bet they ae beautiful
Hunting for popuation control is a joke. it's called the ecosystem. Everything balances itself out. Also, you support the Seal hunt, then even though you say that you don't like inhumane acts...but you support the seal hunt? Contridciting youself there.

By supporting the hunt, for whatever reason, supporting the hunt in general, is supporting the clubbing.

And because it is not illegal that makes it ok to be beaten over the head.

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Old August 16th, 2009, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ownedbycats View Post
There was an odd incident in Sarnia, Ontario last week, a newspaper deliverer was delivering a paper. He got out of his car, when he returned there was a coyote between him and the vehicle. He turned around aand there wre two more behind him! he rushed the lone one and startled it enough to make it out of the way and got back in the car. Surprised me a bit, didn't think coyotes did that, but a cross with wolves might explain the circling a human.
I would rather come face to face with a wolf then a coyote.
Ive heard from my science teacher, whome is very knowledgable about theses things taht A wolf will leave you alone unless pravoked. Unlike the coyote, who wouldnt think twice about goin gafter you for no reason.

A coyote was coming right at me and kacee down in a feild one day. If kacee hadnt scared the thing off im not sure what would have happened.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 07:54 AM
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babymomma,I did not comment regarding the cruel act of clubbing seals,but I agree with ACO.

I have seen trigger-happy groups of"hunters",dressed in camo-outfit,coolers in tow going for a weekend of killing.
I don't think they have anything else in mind,than shooting for the fun of it.

A farmer trying to protect his animals,I can understand,but killing one Coyote,is like stepping on one ant,hoping to make a difference in the ant-population.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 12:52 PM
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I know for a FACT that people do not club seals anymore.. Unless they are poaching or something stupid.

Why make more work for themselves while trying to make a living? It just doesnt make sense. I know many many people who work n the industry.And they do NOT club seals anymore. They go out on a boat with many many many people and not one of them uses a club. Its just not the norm anymore.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 03:04 PM
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Not to carry this old argument any further,but I know for a fact they are using a pole with a hook on the end,not any more humane.
Shooting is just out of the question,ruins the precious fur,so how do you think they kill them??
Why do you think the whole world are in uproar,every Seal-"hunting"season?
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Old August 17th, 2009, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
Not to carry this old argument any further,but I know for a fact they are using a pole with a hook on the end,not any more humane.
Shooting is just out of the question,ruins the precious fur,so how do you think they kill them??
Why do you think the whole world are in uproar,every Seal-"hunting"season?
NOt to get graphic. .but whats going to ruin the fur more? Beat the seal over the head with a pole and a hook? Or a single shot to the head? They arent exactly using an AK 47 to shoot the thing and blow its head off.

And i would like to know how you know this for a fact? Do you have friends or family working in the buisness?
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Old August 17th, 2009, 03:59 PM
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And still there are people blind to the fact we are changing this planet, and not for the better.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 04:33 PM
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So true A-G:sad:
Babymomma,you and I are just not on the same wave-lenght,no I don't have any relatives or friends in this"industry",but I read a lot,watch the news,are you saying they are all lying??
Isn't the fact that only Russia and China are buying the furs,telling you something?
Also,anyone who thinks a chained up "bait-dog"being attacked by a Coyote is funny,has a lot to learn,but you are very young,lots of time to learn,that all animals should be treated with care and if they have to be killed,it should be done as humanely as possible.
This is the end of my discussion about seal-clubbing,ok!
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Old August 17th, 2009, 04:43 PM
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Hunting for popuation control is a joke. it's called the ecosystem. Everything balances itself out.
ACO22
Are you kidding? Not after we mess up the ecosystem it doesn't. It can no longer function in the same way.

As for how bold coyotes are becoming, I was having problems with them last fall myself. We have no garbage or dead stock to attract them, however we do have live stock. They were targeting my free-ranging chickens and becoming exceptionally bold. One morning I was working outside the chicken coop setting up a pool for the geese I had just got and the dogs were all with me. They started running and I looked around the corner of the coop to see what was going on and they were running off a coyote that had been just heading down out of the bush towards the coop. That same evening I was working bent down in my garden and heard a commotion so I stood up and looked to see what was going on and there was a coyote again, this time coming right through the horses that were at the edge of the bush and going after the chickens. I yelled at it and it just paused a moment and looked at me like "Yeah, and what are you going to do?" and went back at the chickens. I opened up the back gate and loosed the dogs on it and it took off. However in the process Flurry caught himself on some barbed wire (somersaulted over a strand) and cut himself, costing me a $200 vet bill for the stitches. The next evening again a coyote was back, this time coming down out of the bush while I was teaching a riding lesson. There was myself, my student and her mom all out in the field and it just didn't care. I'm all for live and let live but if my dh had been home at the right times I would certainly have not had a problem with him taking out this/these particular coyotes. As it was I solved the problem by keeping the chickens confined to the coop rather than allowing them to free range, thus removing the temptation of an easy meal. We still have lots of coyotes around us, I can often hear them howling and yapping at night. they keep their distance from my chickens and ducks that have again been free ranging all summer. I make sure to lock them up safe inside before dark every night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2
A farmer trying to protect his animals,I can understand,but killing one Coyote,is like stepping on one ant,hoping to make a difference in the ant-population.
In response to the coyote problem in our area last year there was an information clinic held for the farmers and other interested parties where they had a guest speaker from the MNR and others, and it was suggested that if you have a family of coyotes living on/near your property that are not targeting your livestock that you leave them alone as if you kill off that family another will only move in and it may be a worse bunch than you've already got. Conversely, if you have a nasty lot and you take them out the next bunch may be easier to get along with.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 04:45 PM
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I really cannot comment on hunting this or that but I am an animal activist to an extent and I was invited to go to a hunt in order to come up with my own conclusions and not that of those who have not witnessed a hunting scenario. Ahhh - it did not change my mind, in fact it reinforced it! It was down right ugly.

What about going back in time and using GW pyranese (spelling sorry) or other flock security dogs? Surely the coyotes have not evolved with intelligence from back 'then'?
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Old August 17th, 2009, 05:03 PM
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What about going back in time and using GW pyranese (spelling sorry) or other flock security dogs? Surely the coyotes have not evolved with intelligence from back 'then'?
There are several different breeds of livestock guardian dogs (LGD's) still used by farmer's today. A friend of mine has 3 Anatolian Shepherds to protect her flock of sheep and it works. There was one night (1 night!) she had the dogs shut in the barn for some reason, I'm really not sure why, but the coyotes knew and they came calling. Sometime in a period of 3 hours or so, in between when somebody was out and about the farm the coyotes drove a Scottish Blackface ewe into the page wire so that her horns got stuck and they stripped her bare, right down the the skeleton. My friend said that it looked like some kind of movie prop it was so cleaned off. This happened right across her driveway, not 50' from her front door. Now when the sheep are out on pasture the dogs are with them 24/7 and only come into the barn when the sheep do.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 05:15 PM
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So true A-G:sad:
Babymomma,you and I are just not on the same wave-lenght,no I don't have any relatives or friends in this"industry",but I read a lot,watch the news,are you saying they are all lying??
Funny, This same media will say bad things about pittbulls.. I thought we all knew by now that the media will write anything to get ratings.

Isn't the fact that only Russia and China are buying the furs,telling you something?
Yea, if they were showed the footage from the early 1900's of baby seals gettng killed with a stick they may back out too.. And if they were being fed LIES. Like paul mcartney and whats her face were giving out.
Also,anyone who thinks a chained up "bait-dog"being attacked by a Coyote is funny
The dog wasnt chained up. But I do beleive that dogs that are BRED for a JOB and has the equipment to defend itself and outrun the thingsshould be allowed to do it. Just like those breeds of dogs that are BRED to hunt wild Hogs should be allowed to do their job. Or the beagles bred for finding rabbits should be allowed to do the JOB they were BRED to do.. The death rate of the lacy dogs is very low. They had traits bred into them to do their Job.
,has a lot to learn,but you are very young,lots of time to learn,that all animals should be treated with care and if they have to be killed,it should be done as humanely as possible.
I am learning.. The differance is i am learning BOTH sides of the story.. I EDUCATED myself to form my opinion.. Im not going to read a newspaper written by someboody with no actual experiance on the subject, just a bit of info that may or may not be true, and automatically assume he or she is right. Its the same thing with ACO22, he or she thinks that reputable breeders are from hell and contribute to the pet overpopulation.. She see's one side and wont open her mind to learn about the reputable breesers before forming her opinion (Sorry ACO, for using you as an example. BUt i remember your comments about reputable breeders)
This is the end of my discussion about seal-clubbing,ok!
Thats fine.. Its not the end for me..
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Old August 17th, 2009, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymomma View Post
NOt to get graphic. .but whats going to ruin the fur more? Beat the seal over the head with a pole and a hook? Or a single shot to the head? They arent exactly using an AK 47 to shoot the thing and blow its head off.

And i would like to know how you know this for a fact? Do you have friends or family working in the buisness?
Well Chico2 may not have relatives in the business, but I DO. You can believe what you want to BM but they DO still club them, or spike them in the skull. Maybe next season go out and see what really goes on instead of what they show on tv or hearsay from someone else. I have seen the family video's first hand, hmmmm for every 1 or 2 guns used, there are 20-30 spikes. Bullets cost money.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 07:06 PM
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Also, Coyotes do not go after people..Wolfs and coyotes are shy animals and stay away from humans when they can. If a wolf or a coyote attack humans, odds are it is sick or injured.

ACO22
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Old August 17th, 2009, 08:35 PM
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The slaughtering of the seals is about vanity. That is the main reason why it is done. They can say that the rest of the carcass is used for something (probably another chinese remedy for a larger shlong or something ridiculous like that) but this is to appease those or clear any wrong doing. If there were no money to be made, then this would not be an issue on how it is done. They infact use the picks to not ruin the main body of the pelt.

I say the only way to humanly secure the flock and maintain the coyotes is using dogs that are bred to protect the flock. Why not? To me, I think that this not only preserves the breeds but the flock is safe, and the coyotes get to live in a land that we have removed from them as a safe haven. That's my
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Old August 17th, 2009, 08:55 PM
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I agree totally Benmax, we as humans have created this situation by taking over the poor animals habitats and killing off their food supply. Then when they have the nerve to try and survive(sarcasm), we get all mad and kill them. We slaughter animals for coats, not out of neccessity, but looks. Elephants for the tusks, gorilla's so some idiot can have a gorilla hand ashtray, etc, etc. Mother nature is just doing what was inevitable creating the Coywolf.

As for hunting season, i still wouldn't like it but atleast if it was a little more sportsman like and went back to using arrows, not high powered rifles it would be a little more digestable. Seriously when was the last time you saw a deer wearing a bullet proof vest.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 09:01 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,187
Absolutely Aslan. And not only that, it's so darn easy to pull out a gun and kill them without looking into a new resolution to this ever increasing problem. And we are the superior beings....I sometimes really wonder about that.

They are entitled to try and survive. I am certain that they do not mass kill either which just proves that they take only what they need. We just take it all.
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