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  #31  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 12:50 PM
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CyberKitten CyberKitten is offline
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Lee than 1%? That's ridiculous!! No reputable charity can get away with that in Canada. (I do Governance workshops for Foundations et al). They are based in the US though, right?

And yep, they have not necessarily helped with the PR of animal rescue. Some of my university students and another prof talked me into protesting at the Shriners' circus last year and I really thought that was a worthy cause (Just looking at some of those poor lions in cages made me ill!). But if you look at other zoos like Busch Gardens for example, the animals are well cared for. And I am oppossed to using animals in experiments but letting those bunnies out of cages to fend for themselves in just as cruel. They have no idea how to look after themselves in the wild. That is just one example I can think of.
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  #32  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 04:09 PM
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Shae Shae is offline
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Just like to point something out......Not all members or supporters of Peta have the same ideas, views, etc. There are so many worthy causes that need immediate attention. Now, every protest or demo I have assisted Peta with, the coordinator always reminds everyone to dress and act respectful. Now of course many members do not follow that guideline......but I for one don't want to be judged because some others get out of hand or are more vocal etc. There are certain situations that I think call for more demanding action.......if the animals are in immediate danger for instance. Id on't follow everything Peta asks of me BUT I make up my own mind and follow due course. See, in the end we all care about one thing. The animals. When certain members of Peta say they want the ban of Pit Bulls........I think what they are saying is breeding in general. See, the shelters and humane societies and rescues are all so over-loaded with animals that are on death row. They are desperate for a family / a loving home. I LOVE ALL animals including Pit Bulls. I've had the pleasure of working with many at the hospital and have had more negative experiences with "other" breeds. No, I do not believe there should be a ban on Pit Bulls nec. I think breeding in general needs to come to a halt at least while there are so many in need. The numbers of abused animals.....kittens being tossed into the river to drown, puppies too......one case there was a litter of lab x pups . The guy couldnt find them homes so he took them to his barn and shot them. I repeat I LOVE Pit Bulls. People are to blame for this. The Pit Bull is a strong animal capable of doing major damage if provoked......which is why so many people are taking in these dogs, as "watch dogs" or "fighting dogs". And its the dog that pays the price in the end. The animals are born innocent and unfortunately so many are raised to be "killing machines" and now it has come down to this. I disagree with the breed specific ban as the Pit Bull should not be singled out. How about we start banning irresponsible owners instead??? Stiffer penalties, fines, jail time, change the laws.......no more slap on the wrists and fooling around. There are many responsible loving people whose family include a Pit Bull(s).........and thanks to idiots that abuse or mistreat these dogs, or use them for their own agenda, everyone suffers esp. these dogs!
Sorry, got off topic for a sec......but I hope you know what I'm saying.Please don't judge all those affiliated with Peta (like me) b/c of certain members. I've had the honour of meeting some FANTASTIC people such as a woman named Allison Ezell.(Peta coodinator)...who is very sweet and is only out there for 1 reason.....she cares about animals they way all of us do in here.
Thanks for listening ....hope I didn't babble too much
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  #33  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 06:45 PM
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LavenderRott LavenderRott is offline
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While I agree with some of the things that PETA stands for - end to animal abuse and puppy mills, to name a couple, I don't like their stand on other things and I certainly don't approve of their methods of making themselves heard. I don't like the terroristic groups that they support. For those reasons, I will not be a part of anything they do. There are other groups that fight for the things I do, in a manner that I approve of.

If you put YOUR NAME on anything that a group does, then your name is associated with EVERYTHING that group does.

MY name is too valuable to be associated with PETA.
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  #34  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 07:22 PM
LL1 LL1 is offline
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Very few groups in the world would I support 100%. Even with political parties, I definitely have not found one I support 100% but that doesn't mean I wouldn't vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderRott
If you put YOUR NAME on anything that a group does, then your name is associated with EVERYTHING that group does.
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  #35  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 09:53 PM
Sheriffmom Sheriffmom is offline
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I have a hard time understanding why anyone would support PETA (although I respect that it is your right to do so). I can't understand a group that euthanized over 80% of dogs and cats put into their care in 1999 (Associated press- PETA euthanized 1,325 out of 2,103 animals put into their care.)
Or how about the fact that in 1995 they had 12million in donations and only $3,955 went to shelters, but over $70,000 went to R.Coronado, a convicted arsonist associated with ALF a group the FBI has on their domestic terroist list (from their 1995 tax return).
I don't understand the hypocracy of saying Eating meat is murder, and yet being sponsered by a Steak restaurant? Or Saying all animals are precious, but having an almost 80% Euthanasia rate (national average for Shelters in about 46%)?? Or how about moving an animal to a different zoo is cruelty, but sentencing hundreds of Pitbulls to death isn't because "People who genuinely care about dogs won't be affected by a ban on pits. They can go to the shelter and save one of the countless other breeds and lovable mutts sitting on death row through no fault of their own"
I would much rather support a rescue/ SPCA/ Spay & Neuter programs etc... PPL who will use my money and my time to physically help abandoned pets, physicall help to heal abused and sick animals, physically help reduce the problem of overpop. Rather than use my money to defend ppl on the FBIs domestic terrorist list, arsonists, car bombers etc... I would rather my money not go to help someone who in the name of "rescuing" lab animals firebombed the lab....killing the animals and in doing so "rescued them".
Just my 2 cents....
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  #36  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 10:01 PM
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Shae Shae is offline
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Some of those stats are news to me. Never heard of those ones. But will be checking that out......as for the SPCA......do you have any idea how many they euthanize? What about Cheech? That whole horror story. What about that poor family that went in to p/u their dog from the SPCA ...there less than 24 hours and they "accidently" put him to sleep?!?!
As I said....I am not a "follower" of Peta.........but I share many of their causes and work hard doing what I can for the animals. As for Peta Euthanizing......hmmmmmmmmmm, like I say, never heard that story but checking it out. I can't see it. Again, judging an entire affiliation b/c of certain members. I'm certainly not a terrorist or arsonist or otherwise. I simply care and do whatever I can.....whether that means doing demonstrations, protests, letter writing, posting in the AR cafe,volunteering educating kids, helping out with the no kill cat shelter....It may not be much but it's something.
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  #37  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 10:16 PM
Sheriffmom Sheriffmom is offline
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Hey Shae, did you read the post about the response (the 2nd one PETA sent me) regarding their no-kill policy? If you go to google and type in PETA Pitbulls there are many news articles etc... about PETAs stance on euthanasia. Another article (I will try and find all the links and post them for you) stated that after a convicted dogfighter and drug dealer went to jail PETA attempted to "rescue" 19 of the dogs. The local SPCA would not let PETA have the dogs, as they planned to euthanize them all because "a fighting dog can never be rehabilitated". A few of the dogs were euthanized, however not all of them.
For me anyway, I can't support an organization that I think is being decieving, underhanded, and hypocritical.... even when I believe they have a few valid points. Like I said above I do support many Animal Charities, and with these groups I feel that both my time and my money are going directly to making a difference in animals lives. With PETA I find it too political, and too far removed from the actual animals (and I have serious issue with supporting anyone who has ties, however small, with any terrorist groups.)
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  #38  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 10:30 PM
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Shae Shae is offline
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If you mean this one, yes I did.
"However, we maintain that any ban should include a clause protecting all pit bulls already living in caring homes" and "By advocating a ban on breeding this dog, PETA is trying to protect the dogs from people who would hurt them. This position would save dogs’ lives overall, not take more lives. Any good person could still adopt a dog—just not a pit bull who could be abused or bred to make more animals to abuse. and finally "But nice families rarely come to a shelter to adopt pit bulls. Almost without exception, those who want pit bulls are attracted to the “macho” image of the breed as a living weapon and seek to play up this image by putting the animals in heavy chains, taunting them into aggression, and leaving them out in all weather extremes to “toughen” them."
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  #39  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 10:39 PM
Sheriffmom Sheriffmom is offline
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actually I meant this one: "PETA does not support no kill shelters. As we have seen over and over, many of these shelters turn into warehouses for unadoptable, ill or vicious animals. You can read about one of the shelters we are currently working with in North Carolina at http://www.peta.org/feat/acgas/index.shtml. Furthermore, most of these shelters are always full, and are therefore forced to turn away animals. To read more about our stance on no-kill shelters, please go to http://www.helpinganimals.com/Facts...splay.asp?ID=40."
But about the quote you wrote.... I just want to know how would not being able to adopt a Pitbull save dogs lives overall? Wouldn't a dog who is not allowed to be adopted just be euthanized?? "PETA is trying to protect the dogs from people who would hurt them. This position would save dogs’ lives overall, not take more lives. Any good person could still adopt a dog—just not a pit bull"
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  #40  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 11:12 PM
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Shae Shae is offline
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The thing about no kill shelters though is that now, at least a vast majority can only call themselves No-Kill as they will only accept "adoptable" animals. They refuse ill or aggressive animals due to the fact there would be little or no chance of adoption. The ones that do take "all" animals including aggressive and sickly end up overloaded with animals. Most are non profit and many end up with so many animals that they cannot simply keep up with the work and the large amount of money it costs to run a shelter. In the end the animals are neglected, starved and often abandoned. I have many stories from various news articles on this very subject. Now, the SPCA isnt adopting out aggressive dogs. So many are killed every single day. It all comes down to irresponsible humans. Now, you say you would never help out with any cause that Peta was promoting (or something to that effect) So, tell me this, I am encouraging ppl to help me by writing letters to a local Vancouver radio station that is encouraging ppl to try Iams Pet food.They are heavy into animal testing. I need ppl to send emails to them trying to put an end to promoting this. Would you write to them or would you not simply b/c I do volunteer work for Peta? BTW, this isn't Peta's thing......it was I who heard Karen Daniels promoting this garbage and wanted to get a letter writing campaign going. Would you sooner turn the cheek and allow them to encourage ppl to buy this product so testing may continue ??? I'm just curious .Why allow animals to suffer if you can help out......don't NOT help just b/c Peta may be helping too. You know we all have varied opinions.....sometimes best to agree to disagree. Have a great night!
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  #41  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 11:40 PM
Sheriffmom Sheriffmom is offline
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Oh sorry.... I mean financially and in terms of being part of their demonstrations. I have no problem writing letters (and have at your request to Karen Daniels re Iams) regarding animal issues. I won't however mention any affiliation to PETA. Nor will I even mention PETA in my letters.
I wrote to Iams awhile back (there is a thread around somewhere ), and their letter back was very evasive (also posted on thread), so I wrote them back asking for clarity on the issue.... and never go a reply (here is the link http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=7348) and my reply to Iams ( appreciate your response, and in a timely fashion. I have visited the site you suggested, and most of it seems to be great (as long as it is infact enforced and implemented). I just had a few quick questions.
You're site indicates the "investigator" de-barked the dogs against Iams wishes, do all employees (especially fairly new ones) have the authority to order surgical proceedures for the animals? If so, should this maybe be addressed? How was the "investigator" able to get the dogs debarked behind Iams's back? (Did she remove the animals to a clinic? or have the proceedure take place in the lab? Did the "investigator" pay for the proceedure, or was it out of Iams pocket? Are dogs currently de-barked in your labs? Are there any de-barked dogs in the labs now that were not de-barked by the "investigator"?

Also, is 30minutes 5 days a week really enough human contact and exercise time for the dogs? Is this the type of time Iams recomends for pet owners?

How does Iams choose which animals get re-used in the lab, which get adopted out, and which go to a "pet retirement" home? Do you have pictures of the "Pet retirement" home? Who works at the retirement home? Do you accept volunteers to come and take care of the animals (play, walk etc...)?

Thanks for your time, I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely

I hope this makes it more clear... I am always getting in trouble from Hubby, because he says when I try and explain myself he needs a translator!!(I tend to get passionate and my words get jumbled and the meaning obscured...sorry )
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  #42  
Old October 23rd, 2004, 01:00 AM
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Shae Shae is offline
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Hi.....no, please dont apologize for being passionate about certain issues. I know all about that! I remember reading your letter awhile back. Very impressive. Iams is pathetic. Not surprised you didnt get a reply to that one email though *L* Your letter was great and to the point. Thanks so very much for writing Karen at JRFM. If you saved a copy I'd love to take a peek. Thanks yet once again for helping out. Its much appreciated.
Sharon (Shae)
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  #43  
Old October 23rd, 2004, 01:10 AM
Sheriffmom Sheriffmom is offline
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I'll post a copy tomorrow (I'm on the night shift, and don't have access to my personal emails here). I basically reiterated the ideas that I posted in the reply to IAMS, asking her to ask herself these questions. Asked her if she was so passionate about IAMS to ask for an unrestricted access pass to view their labs, and if after that she was satisfied.... well we'd all leave her to it!
Haven't recieved a reply...at least not that I am aware of yet (again...at work ) Talk to you soon.
PS_ I really enjoyed our debate. PPl expressing differing opinions without getting nasty!! I love this site, and am sometimes in awe of the ppl on here. Most are just too great for words!!
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