Jag bit again.

[Lukka'sma]

Good luck angeldogs, and Jag

[TeriM]

Just wanted to send some good vibes your way. This must be such a difficult time and I wish you luck .

[sissani]

I'm glad you decided not to give up just yet, I really hope it works out!!

[glitterless]

Good luck with Jag, angeldogs. I hope that you can figure out what the best thing is for yourself, your family, and for Jag.

I realize that I come off harsh sometimes, but I am honestly not a dog hater! I am the type of person who gets attached to a wild bird that frequents my barn yard! The more time I spend with animals, the more difficult I find it when I have to say goodbye.

Although many of us disagree on such issues, we are all here because we love animals and want what's best for them. Even during debate, I feel very much at home on this board because I know that in the end, I'm talking about my passion with other like-minded people.

[angeldogs]

Glitterless.i don't look at it as being harsh.with getting jag my buddy asked at
9:00 pm on a thurs.and need to know by that fri night.like i said before it was to be temp.i asked around and some hunters i know.none use dogs anymore and didn't want him.so we kept him instead.and this board has been a big help.that's why i posted instead of just disappearing and leaving people in the dark.just out of respect for the help and info i have recieved from the board.i'm still with the same plan.the wifes not anymore she wants to keep him same with the kids.they are smart.they said crate him.either way after reading the posts and calmed down and after getting some sleep.it made me realize that if it's health problem it's up to me to get the problem fixed first.i wouldn't hide that he has bitten.and if health i wouldn't hide that either.i would be up front about it.

[glitterless]

I hope that you can find a solution. So I guess from here you'll investigate his health and then decide what to do next?

My parents' family dog bit my sister when she was about 16 -- 7 years ago. He had actually bitten once or twice before, like Jag. The last bite was the most traumatic. He got her right in the face, and she needed emergency plastic surgery to have her lip reattached.

We ended up keeping the dog. He's 11 years old now and he'll finally be put to sleep this summer as his health is failing. I don't think that any of us trusted him after that bite, but then again, it's probably naive to trust any dog not to bite. So I know where you're coming from...it's not so easy to have him put down, especially when the rest of your family is against it.

I believe that he probably can be trained not to bite, and I believe that in Jag's mind, he's biting for a very good reason. You mentioned that he knows the people who he bit, but how often are they in your home? Jag probably feels that you guys are his pack and that he wants to protect you. So any intruders, even people who he's met before, are a threat to his family. I think that at heart he's a really good dog who is very confused about his place in the family. Jag thinks that he's the protector of the family, but what he needs to learn is that he is the lowest on the totem pole.

I'm sure that you don't need to be told this, but don't trust him for a second. He might already respect you or your wife, or even your kids as dominant pack members, but he may also try to challenge that at any moment. Jag's bites may only be issued as warnings, but these bites can do serious damage to a human.

I wish that I could offer more advice in regards to training, but I honestly don't know how to safely socialize a confirmed biter with people and teach him not to bite. Hopefully the other users on here have given you enough resources so that you can find a trainer who is experienced with dogs like Jag. I don't think that biting should be a death sentence for a dog, but you also can't sit back and wait for it to happen again.

Again, I wish you guys the best of luck. I also appreciate the fact that you've updated us on Jag, even when we've probably told you things that you don't want to hear.

[Lise]

There is a form of epilepsy that causes almost a split personality.It is mostly in spaniels but also higher than average cases in pointers and reatrievers.It causes unprovoked agression and then the dog is completely normal.Personally I agree that no dog with that many bites should ever be rehomed,the risk is too great.

[Rottielover]

the only thing I can think of would be thyroid,

[angeldogs]

We are going to check for a chemical imbalance in the brain.thats what the drops are for.if if he gets rehomed it will be with out kids.and they would know everything about him.
my brother as a toddler had his face riped open by a dog bite.but it was a small breed.
i will continue to update thank you everyone for your advice and concern.

[Dekka]

I have rehabbed some biting dogs. The JRTRO will take dogs who have bit (JRT rescue) as many of these dogs are biting because they are in inapropriate situtations. And by that I mean homes where ppl can't read 'dog'. You have no idea how many times I have heard the 'the dog bit with no warning' well I can tell you 1 of 3 things is happening. The dog has a medical issue (ie like a brain tumour, epilepsy etc) the dog did warn, and the humans missed it, or the dog had been punished for warning (corrected everytime it growled)

I hope this issue is resolvable. I think you are doing everything right. But one comment, obed training does not cure aggression. You take an aggressive dog and train it, then you have an obedient aggressive dog. (there was a woman I met at the sportsman show when I was manning the JRT rescue booth, who told me about her dog. She sent her aggressive JRT to a trainer. She now has a dog that comes, sits, etc but if you touch it, it will bite and break skin.

Speaking of bites, on Ian Dunbar's scale of bites. http://www.canineaggression.org/page10.html what was the level of the bite inflicted by the dog?

[SableCollie]

You take an aggressive dog and train it, then you have an obedient aggressive dog.

Yes! That's exactly what I was trying to say.

From the description, sounded like a level 2 or 3 bite, angeldogs would be able to give an exact answer.

I am curious as to whether a chemical imbalance can be found in jag's brain. However, as described, it sounds like either fear aggression, or resource guarding, with the resource being the home/family.

[angeldogs]

Hi Sablecollie that's what were trying to find out if it is chemical imbalance.that's what the drops were for.and he's more sucky now.and was told it's working.he gets 6 drops a day.were going to another vet.we heard from our vet today and i mentioned about testing for aggresion and she said he didn't need it.

Dekka we are going back to the woman we first seen because we trust her.jag didn't show aggresion to her then so she only did basic ob.this time it's only to acess him for aggression and go from there.she said it sound like him and she thinks it's medical also.if there is no medical is going to come to the house and see if it's resouce aggression.thanks again everyone for your help.and i'm glad you are all here.thanks again i will keep updating.

from the website it was a level 3.the puncture wound wasn't as deep.it took a off little skin and bleed for only a couple of mins.

[SableCollie]

What are the drops called? I'm just curious as to how they test for a chemical imbalance. Wasn't he having some health or digestive problems in the past too? I would definitely get everything physical checked out first, I hope the other vet is more open to health testing than your first vet.

I hope you do figure out the reason for his aggression soon!

[~michelle~]

how about muzzling/ crating him when company is over??? maybe you can find an adopter who is willing to take the dog, doesnt have kids or alot of visitors?

[angeldogs]

SableCollie.the drops are called Azmira
certified ingredients.30c&200c each,in 20%
ethanol &distilled water
Chicory,Holly,Impatiens,Rock Rose,Vine.
i'm going to see if my brother can ask his friend.their boy was tested for it.i will post the answer.we thought he might have had a problem digesting bone.we were going through some bad runs with bone in it.i was giving to much bone.then still runs so we thought it could be raw.it was his favorite food causing it.turkey and he was chewing at his paws.took a way turkey runs stopped.poor boy.of all the food he would get the mild zommies when the turkey came out.he could get to it quick enough.

~michelle~.we have been crateing him and musseling him.my wife hd company the other day crated him.and we the friend said it's ok jag i quess he calmed right down and left in the crate till they left.from my side door we have access to the kitchen and down stairs.so i'm putting the door back on the kitchen and moving the crate down stairs.so when he needs out he won't be able to get upstairs till the quest leave.

[gomez]

right, I have been debating on posting this since the thread started, and here it goes...

PLEASE, please don't flame me...

I have a friend, whenever she drinks yellow alcohols, i.e. whisky, dark rum, etc... gets drunk very quickly and gets very agitated and sometimes violent - it is a chemical imbalance that is greatly exacerbated by these types of alcohol...

Is there even the slightest, most remote possibility that raw diet does not agree with Jag? Is it possible that the raw protein creates some kind of chemical imbalance in this particular dog?

Just something to think about...not the premise for arguments...

[pitgrrl]

Originally Posted by angeldogs

SableCollie.the drops are called Azmira
certified ingredients.30c&200c each,in 20%
ethanol &distilled water
Chicory,Holly,Impatiens,Rock Rose,Vine.

I hope I don't come off sounding like an as* by asking this, but you posted that these drops are to indicate a chemical imbalance, but from the above post it looks like they are a homeopathic remedy or flower essence blend. Are they the Azmira Flower Essence for Aggression?

Though I have no doubt that these may help the issue(s), it's not the same thing as testing for a chemical imbalance, I would hope that your vet did not lead you to believe that. Maybe I'm just confused?

[angeldogs]

Pitgrrl.there not from the vet.and yes they are homopathic.there from my trainer to see if it helps.she said if there was a chemical imbalance it would help with it.but not cure it and to let her know when she goes to access him.till we can get into see a new vet and get that tested and other health issues that would cause aggression.

[gypsy_girl]

I have found biofeedback VERY useful in determining source origin for issues such as yours. In works on a nutrition level, emotional level, etc
I am sure you would have someone in your area that can help with this
Here is a link that talks about it
http://www.energyconnection.org/

[~michelle~]

id there something about the people he has bit? smoking, alcohol, prescription med change, perfumes? maybe theres something about the person and the chemicals in their body, the pheromones that caused him to bite

[happycats]

It's great that your are doing all that you can for Jag, and I do hope that you get to the bottom of this and that it's fixable and that you your family and Jag can spend many happy years together!!

[angeldogs]

Thanks for the info pitgrrl.
Thank you happycats
~michelle~Maybe.My buddy doesn't smoke and wasn't wearing any after shave.the wifes friend i don't know.
we were at the regular park across the street yesterday off lead and jag was playing with another puppy and jag paid no mind to the owner.

[angeldogs]

Gomez.i was wondering that also.the vet said no raw diet wouldn't cause it.

[technodoll]

angeldogs, any update on jag?... is he still with you?

[angeldogs]

Yep he's still here.i was looking for a new vet.called the one my O.B told me to call.hadn't heard back from her yet.so calling tomorrow.he's been fine now.it all happened right after my bro moved out.my mom thinks thats what caused it all.but still going to talk to a new vet and she what she thinks and what test should be done.

[chico2]

Angeldogs,that sounds good,I was a little afraid to open this post

[Hunter's_owner]

Originally Posted by angeldogs

Yep he's still here.i was looking for a new vet.called the one my O.B told me to call.hadn't heard back from her yet.so calling tomorrow.he's been fine now.it all happened right after my bro moved out.my mom thinks thats what caused it all.but still going to talk to a new vet and she what she thinks and what test should be done.

That sounds good Angeldogs. Thank You so very much for trying so hard

[angeldogs]

Thanks ladies.were trying.we keep him crated when company is over.he goes nuts wanting to play with the kids.we were on a walking trail yesterday and the wife walked him.instead of me all the time.he didn't bother with anybody.even some other dogs.but 2 and him and them wanted to play.

[Prin]

More luck!

[angeldogs]

Thanks Prin