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#61
May 25th, 2004, 03:15 PM
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Heidiho,I am certainly no dog-expert and when I did have dogs years ago,nobody crated their dogs,not even puppies.
I know it's the norm nowadays,but is it not cruel to keep a lively puppy in a"cage"for up to eight hours a day? I know most of you dog-owners have used crates,but I am oldfashioned I suppose,I think a dog should at least be able to run around,if not in livingrooms,then at least a kitchen,when alone most of the day. I've read from so many people about crating,not to have the dog destroy things,but does that not come with the territory if you have a puppy,especially in a smaller place?
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"The cruelest animal is the Human animal" 3 kitties,Rocky(r.i.p my boy),Chico,Vinnie |
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#62
May 25th, 2004, 03:21 PM
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I hate having him crated also,he goes to my friends house two days a week,and i was gonna take the crate face it towards the kitchen it fits perfect but then i was thinking if he tried to jump over it and got stuck he would be in a bad way til i got home...My goal is when he is a little older i can let him have the whole apt but what age is that??? I dont know,any guesses Mona you might have a good guess when they can have free reign of apt..
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#63
May 25th, 2004, 04:38 PM
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Anita,I've done it the old fashioned way also.I have never crated my dogs.Past or present.
As for how long they should be crated...I have heard that pups(damiens age) should only be crated for 4 hours. Well that depends heidiho.Is he destructive,does he chew on things that he's not supposed to?Is he well behaved when he is loose in the apt? Yukon and Tron were between 5-6 months when they had free run of the house.And I mean when we were out. heidiho,maybe you can try blocking the kitchen. It's not good at all to have a growing GSD pup to be in the crate for 8 hrs...They can have joint problems when older.
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"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than his owner can express with his tongue in hours." |
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#64
May 25th, 2004, 04:42 PM
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g s
Well i was gonna take his crate face it so it opens toward kitchen that way he could lay in it,then walk in kitchen,but i was thinking if he tried to jump over it and got stuck like leg in crate he would be stuck there til i got home..
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#65
May 25th, 2004, 04:49 PM
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I'm trying to picture it in my head what you want to do...........This may take a while....
__________________
"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than his owner can express with his tongue in hours." |
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#66
May 25th, 2004, 04:49 PM
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Like Mona, I have never crated.
Given the design of my condo, I did not even have the luxury of blocking Oliver, my most recent pup, in. All the same, I have suffered minimal damage (granted, I expected accidents when Oliver was younger and I also expected some destruction (it has been minimal). As a precaution, however, I sprayed prized items (like furniture) with Bitter Apple and ensured that all power cords were unplugged and also sprayed (to deter him from developing a taste). I know that people sing the praises of crates but I simply don't see it. Given a choice, none of the dogs that I have known would choose a crate over being in an open room. My parents just adopted/rescued an adult Golden who has been crated her entire life and the owners said she "loves sleeping in her crate at night". Guess what - a week at my parents' place and she will not even sniff it. She loves hanging out in the open now. And I agree with Mona, no matter what your views on crating, 8 hours is too long. Even if a dog sees its crate as its "den" no dog would stay in its den for 8 hours a day. Plus, a pup needs to go out during the day. Eight hours is simply too long crate or no crate. I know we have gone through this again and again, but it sounds like you need to look into a walker, daycare or petsitter (friend or hired) to take Damien out during the day. My two cents and I will not be chiming in on this thread again - famous last words, right?!?!?!  Michelle |
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#67
May 25th, 2004, 05:02 PM
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g s
I have looked into that,and honestly there arent that many here in phx..which ido find suprising.well he goes to my friends two days a week,so he is only crated 3 days out of seven.And i dont like it either but it is.And i do have to say the crate is a great thing,when we are laying around he goes in there on his own,whether to take a nap or eat his bone,he is fine with the crate i think it is a great thing to have,he likes it...When i think he is ready i will let him have run of the house,but i dont have alot of money and just got brand new furniture and no way am i gonna give him the chance to ruin it..Any vet will tell you the crate is a good thing...
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#68
May 25th, 2004, 05:04 PM
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I think it would be a wire crate, right? And a really small entrance to the kitchen, so that the crate door can be left open, and no space would be left. Am I picturing this right?
__________________
~*Life is one big game of fetch*~ http://www.webspawner.com/users/yeltneb/index.html |
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#69
May 25th, 2004, 05:11 PM
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Yeah it is a black wire crate,i would turn it so the front faces the kitchen,it fits perfectly from cabinet to cabinet,no room to get out,but what if he tried jumping over the top of it and got foot stuck in wire??? And he does lloooooooveeee his crate also,if i scold him or when i vacuum that is right where he goes...
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#70
May 25th, 2004, 05:19 PM
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A dog who goes into a comfy OPEN crate to catch a nap is very different than a dog who is locked in for 8 hours a day with no way out. No dog would choose that.
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#71
May 25th, 2004, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
As for saying "sometime in a dogs life they will have to be crated"..Not true.My dogs who have never been crated have never needed to be in one.And they are both 8 now.If they ever saw a crate,I think the first thing they would do is "pee" on it.And I have 2 large PB GSD's that I have had since they were 3 months old.Ok,so one left at 18 months and came back to me at 7.....
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"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than his owner can express with his tongue in hours." |
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#73
May 25th, 2004, 05:57 PM
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I agree i hate when i have to put him in there for 8 hours,but that is the way it is,i cant change that..But yeah he does like the crate.And i know he probably sleeps most of the time anyway,one sat.when i was home all day he slept alot of the day..Until i get one of those doors things,great idea duh! i knew that,do you think i could just take crate and dace it toward kitchen???
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#74
May 25th, 2004, 06:00 PM
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Well first off your right,I'm not going over seas....And second,I wouldn't be going over seas..........
__________________
"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than his owner can express with his tongue in hours." |
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#75
May 25th, 2004, 06:13 PM
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Trust me when I say I wouldn't be moving there....I have thought about it..And it will never happen....And I'm serious when I say that....I have a father who is 82 and I am his little girl...So like I said,I would never be moving there....And I have no reason to be leaving where I am now....Heck I just moved here........But am only 45 mins from my daddy.....
heidiho,is there anyway you can look into a licenced dog walker to come take Damien out?Think about this,the reason he loves his crate is because that's all he knows.He is in it for 8 hours.You come home,let him out,then later you go to bed and he is in it for another lets say 8-9 hours during the night.
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"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than his owner can express with his tongue in hours." |
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#76
May 25th, 2004, 06:14 PM
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Well I will have to continue this later.Hubby is on his way home and he is not in a very good mood.So this is my cue to take the dogs for a nice long walk.....
__________________
"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than his owner can express with his tongue in hours." |
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#78
May 25th, 2004, 06:30 PM
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you have repeatedly said you are scared of him, well you fear wont change in a hurry. you should never be scared of own pet and frankly, he has the potential to be very dangerous (as all dogs) and i dont think you can cope. laura we have given her book advice, names of books ect and yet to see these used. and you still wont go to dog school, this is a cheap option and is a necessity for him, he needs to learn basics first which is what dog school does, it sounds like you dont have much control here and dog school would give you the power you need and establish your position. and to give him to your sisterin law, she has 3 dogs, have you thought about everyones quality of life if he went there?? 4 dogs and a family are expensive and hard to handle, you hae said yourself she has a yard, have you looked into the math of number dogs and land sizes per animal?were you going to make continued payment for upkeep?? ring the shelters luba gave numbers, for advice for the poor boy in rehousing have you done this yet.
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#79
May 25th, 2004, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
It took too 'long' actually 45mins she said to be exact. When I continuously asked her if she was doing the feeding as I suggested WEEKS ago she's done nothing but avoid it. This is NOT new advise! Heidiho, whats with you? Perhaps you can explain why numerous people have given you the same advise and you're still sitting there wondering what to do? If you started this May 4th (almost 3 weeks ago) you'd be 3weeks ahead of where you are now! Is this a game to you? A way to seek and get attention? Everyone is just wasting their time here! MAY 4th in response to her original thread I posted this: just want to warn you against using any method of force as it striking your dog with a hand/foot or object. You do NOT want to do this, even if it's retaliation for him nipping or growling at you! Esp you don't wanna do this with a big dog like a GSD or one day he will rip your face off!! You will teach him to fear bite and they by far are the most unpredictable dogs you can find! One day out of the blue he may think your hand that is coming to 'pat him' is going to slap him and CHOMP and TEAR and there you go! I've seen some horrible training techniques even coached by so called dog obedience trainers and pro handlers. They encourage rough shaking and a whack even. I can't tell you how scarey that is to me. I would NEVER hit a dog that way. There are many other methods that can be used to curve/combat this behaviour esp when it comes to feeding. If its a feeding issue YOU become control of EVERY single morsel he eats. I'm not sure what u feed him dry/canned or home fed / both. BUT each meal is going to be atleast 10/15 mins long and he's gonna have to be patient for a few days until he learns to behave. You control the food, the bowl is in your hands or on the counter. You stand/sit in a chair and feed it to him piece by piece. Each time he takes it from your open palm gently you reward him with good boy! Make him sit before each portion, then he'll begin to just stay in seated position. Over the course of a couple of days, alternate one or two pieces in your hand then a few in his bowl that you will put down after he sits for it. When he is finished you put your hand to the bowl and put one or two more pieces in. Constantly telling him he is a good boy. Feed him in the same place ALL the time (if you have a crate you feed him IN the crate and he SITS before he eats). Slowly, you can give him a few more pieces at a time. Until you graduate to an entire meal. MAking him sit to wait for the food is crucial. When he is done take the bowl away immediately and tell him good boy! Hope this helps.
__________________
Cats only have nine lives because they stole them from dogs!Teehee |
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#80
May 25th, 2004, 06:39 PM
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hail queenie luba, you are a far more patient and tolerant woman than i will ever be, sheesh
dont forget this dog is growing and when he get realy big then you will really have probs, fix it now before too late... |
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#81
May 25th, 2004, 06:43 PM
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g s
Then go away Luba why do you aggravate yourself with me then..........Ihave tried alot of new ways of feeing him and the funny thing is why do iask a million times because someone on here said to feed him in different areas but yet you say feed him in the same spot,that is why,cause i get a million different ways told to me to do,so if you dont like my problems,QUIT answering or writing here,i dont need attention i get enough thank you,i think you are the one who need to get a life............
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#84
May 25th, 2004, 08:20 PM
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Here's an excellent article on curbing CPA
http://www.doglogic.com/possess.htm Do what is best for you and your dog, but pls. try this for a few weeks brfore making your final decision. My parents have a Cocker who had C.P.A. and we were able to work it out of her, she is 15 years old this year now and has been a joy to have. There is no need for be-littling people for anything in life includeing this! |
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#85
May 25th, 2004, 08:43 PM
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"Heidiho, whats with you? Perhaps you can explain why numerous people have given you the same advise and you're still sitting there wondering what to do? If you started this May 4th (almost 3 weeks ago) you'd be 3weeks ahead of where you are now! Is this a game to you? A way to seek and get attention? "
Heidi???? Whats up with this??? 3 weeks ago Luba gave this advice and you are STILL here asking the exact same questions over and over...... Damien should be in a routine by now and you should be seeing some improvement. Are you going to try and help this situation or not???? I'm getting a bit ticked now...... You don't appear to want any advice or accept it. The ones giving advice here have all either been through this or have helped others through these problems. I think that time and energy are being wasted here. I personally won't be replying anymore and I wish you all the best of luck in the world with helping your situation, because you are going to need nothing less than a miracle at this point before there is a serious injury. One last very good piece of advice, which should be done ASAP (not that I haven't said it before) CALL RESCUE IMMEDIATELY. They need to get the dog out of your place and into a situation where the dog has a chance at life and being treated right. Heather |
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#86
May 25th, 2004, 08:52 PM
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Food for thought huh Goldenmama!
I wonder, have we ever seen any pictures of this dog? I don't recall? The naming him Damien, first choice? Why? I doubt when you first saw him he exhibited this behaviour your stating he has. It's probably only 'after' coming up with this wonderful story line that people have been following that Damien sounded like it suited his behaviour huh! Reminding me of that Almond Joy commercial!
__________________
Cats only have nine lives because they stole them from dogs!Teehee |
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#87
May 25th, 2004, 09:08 PM
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For the puppy staying in his crate 8 hours a day problem, this is my experience... One of my neighbours was walking her golden lab puppy, i started talking to her, telling her how cute he was... She asked me if I knew anybody who stayed home during the day (I was home and it was lunch time - so I guess she figured that I might), and I said that I was, so she asked me if I would mind going in and letting her dog out in the middle of the day. It turned out great! When you're walking your pup around the neighborhood, if you see neighbours that you think you can trust (students -like me- are often home during the daytime), you can get to know them and then ask them to come over to give your puppy a break. My neighbour was actually driving back home from work before I started going. I really enjoyed going in to see him, and I still do when I'm home, even though her dog is now older.
Asking someone who is home during the day might be doing the other person a favor, I wanted to walk a dog, but I wasn't sure if I wanted one, so I got to walk the dog (which is safer), and I decided to get one of my own! |
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#88
May 26th, 2004, 10:03 AM
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g s
I dont know how many times i have to say i have been working on this,and for the person who aksed about how much land,it is alot,they live in the country and have alot of property.Well dont worry tried hand feed him last night and growled and went to bite,so dont need your advice anymore,called the breeder and i have a feeling part of this was his mother from what she said.And it is funny how some of you say you get so annoyed but yet you keep putting in your 2 cents in, i am so happy everyone knows how my dog gets,i would like to see one of you put your hand near his food bowl..So for all of you sooooo annoyed by me QUIT WRITING TO ME...........
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#89
May 26th, 2004, 12:08 PM
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poor gs
Well, this has turned into a very interesting conversation!!! Oh, Hediho, you make it sound like we should all feel so sorry for you. You had to shell out 78 dollars for your trainer - and you don't know how you're going to pay for it... BOO HOO... I would not eat for weeks if it came down to who had food, my dog or myself. I guess that 's just priorities. You got a dog because you were getting married, good reason - don't think I've heard that one before.
Sad truth is, an aggressive dog like g s is simply because of improper training, socializing and attention -- all linked to you unfortunately. Your dog needs MUCH more then a backyard and a playmate, it needs an educated owner that has time and money to take care of it. I have a pitbull and live in a apartment, I don't think you're cruel for that, but I think it's safe to assume that your dog does not run and play with other dogs and meet new people on a regular basis. Off leash parks are excellent for urbanized pets that doen't have backyards - look into it, if you have the time!! P.S. A private trainer for 78$ how far did you look into this before you hired them? |
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#90
May 26th, 2004, 12:17 PM
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To be honest,an off leash park would not be safe.Imagine if Damien came across a bone or something,and another dog came up....Oh man,you would have a definate scrap between them.Remember,he has food aggression.
heidiho,is there any way you can post a pic of him?
__________________
"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than his owner can express with his tongue in hours." |
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