I'm Back..puppies leaving mom too early

[pitbulliest]

C flat..that's where you're wrong...a responsible owner is not an oxymoron, because a responsible owner loses more money on breeding their dogs than they gain. THEY ARE NOT in it for the money..and any gains that they might have are used to cover all vet/medical/health testing costs/etc.

Furthermore, responsible breeders have experience from working in shelters and belong to various rescue groups that they partake in on a regular basis. They are very active in these fields. Furthermore, a responsible breeder has a contract that prohibits the buyers from breeding the animal and they must provide proof that they have fixed the dog within a certain time period. If they do breed it, the breeder has every right to take them to court and gain 100% posession of all the pups in that case.

Also, a truely responsible and good breeder always shows their dogs prior to breeding..and not just once or twice..they have had years of experience with the specific type of dog before they even think about having a litter. Also, no responsible breeder breeds more than ONE specific breed of dog that they have specialized in. You're also forgetting that a good breeder will not breed their dog until it is AT LEAST 2 - 3 years of age, and will breed the dog a maximum time of once a year...but most will breed once every second or third year.

All the examples and comments you have put out on your post are to me, describing a backyard breeder, not a responsible breeder. This just tells me that you DO NOT know what a responsible breeder is like..and I don't blame you..alot of people have no idea...that's why there are so many problems with dogs right now..because people are getting their puppies from the BYB breeders...and they don't even know it!

[LavenderRott]

I can assure you that many people that I know that own purebred dogs are neither stupid nor egotistical! To make a statement like that is rude, to say the least.

I am sorry that you don't know any responsible breeders, but I can assure you they are out there. To say that all animals should be spayed and neutered is really not thinking things through, because in 20 years all breeds of dogs would be extinct.

I give money and time to rescues. I have worked in the shelter sytem and held both puppies and kittens while they have been pts. I have two dogs, one was rescued from a shelter, the other was found wandering the streets.

My next dog will be from a responsible breeder. Having put in many many hours of research in finding the right breeder, I can assure you that I am not stupid and am far from egotistical.

[doggy lover]

Just a thought, how many dogs from responsible breeders/owners really end up in animal shelters. What I see is mostly cross breeds ( not that there is anything wrong with them ) but most breeders only breed purebred dogs. As a owner if you spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on a dog that you want, you have probably researched the breed and picked the type of dog that is best for you, and if you have problems you are not going to send say a $1000 GSD to the shelter you are going to spend a few hundred more to get help from a trainer. When I was looking for a new pup I checked out THS and other places almost all their dogs were Pit bull crosses, not what I wanted. So maybe I'm selfish but why get into trouble with a problem that someone else created, these poor animals were not from breeders but unresponsible people who didn't think. If everyone got their dogs fixed and were responsible for taking care of them until death do they part their wouldn't be animals in shelters. People must stop and think what they are getting into, go to a petstore and listen to them, they see the cute little puppy and don't think that that pup is going to become a 120lb dog, or is a dog that should never be bought by a first time owner. Education is the issue, and who not better to decide weather you get a puppy or not, someone that has the best intrest of their puppies at heart and can make you get the pup fixed a responsible breeder.

[GsdDiamond]

Originally Posted by Cflat

People who insist on a purebred that don't show are either uneducated or on an ego trip. It also makes NO sense to me that a dog has to be intact to be shown. The AKC and the CKC should get their act's together and stop that neandrethal practice.

I take offence at the qwip about being "uneducated" or "on an ego trip" because I bought a purebred dog that I won't be showing. I bought a purebred dog after doing much research into the type of dog I wanted, the character traits of the breed, temperment, requirements the dog had in food, exercise, etc.
I don't know if a "mixed" breed dog is going to be a sound choice. In my lifetime I've owned 3 dogs. One purebred (now) who's physically and mentally perfect for the breed. My two previous dogs (not owned at the same time) both had either temperment issues or physical ones.
- First dog: temperment issue. The dog, at 4 months old, thought she was alpha. She was a highly aggressive dog who drew blood on purpose on more than one occassion. Obedience classes and temperment experts did not help this dog. End result: PTS
- Second dog: physical issue. The dog was rescued from a BYB who didn't give a rat's a$$ about his dogs. The poor thing had worms so bad, her blood pressure was through the roof. This caused her blood vessels in her eyes to rupture causing gradual blindness. She's with my ex now as when I left the house, I moved into a no-pets allowed apartment block. If she's still alive she'd be about 9 years old and totally blind now.

When a dog is shown in the ring, there is to be no physical alteration of the dog. This includes spay/neuter. Dogs who win in the ring usually have other titles under their collars and are prime candidates for continuing the betterment of the breed. Male dogs who are prone to testicles that won't drop, aren't a dog that breeders want to breed, or at least reputable ones.
My dog isn't a show dog because she isn't 100% perfect. Her fault? Long hair. That's it. Becuase of this she isn't a candidate for breeding, and I'm ok with that. That's why the reputable breeder we bought her from (someone who sells dogs to Police agencies, runs a Shutzhund club, and also owns Canadian champions) sold her to someone who only wanted a pet. Stipulation? She be fixed as soon as the Vet would allow. Fine by us.

So before you decide that people who buy purebreds are only in it for the "glory" of owning a purebred dog, ask someone why they bought one. I, for one, did my homework.

[trescanis]

Great response to a person who is ignorant of the facts GsdDiamond.


Trescanis

[DogueLover]

I take offense also to the quote about people only getting purebred dogs for an ego trip or because they are uneducated.
I realize that it is unfair to the thousands of dogs and cats that are pts in shelters every year however it is highly unlikely that they were sold by reputable breeders. Reputable breeders will screen out unlikely "lifelong pet owners" and those who want a power or ego trip by buying certain breeds.
I have a purebred Dogue de Bordeaux that I looked long and hard for. I spent years educating myself on the breed and checking bloodlines before I got my Dogue. These dogs, as I am sure most owners of purebreds will agree, are not only lifelong companions, but an Investment. The dogs sold by reputable breeders will end up back at the breeder should the owner not be able to keep them for any reason.(AT least that is what our understanding is from our dog`s breeder).
I will not argue that there are unwanted purebred dogs out there, but they come from owners who did not educate themselves and did not prepare themselves for the long term commitment it takes to keep a pet. Those people need to keep virtual pets as they only take the commitment these people are willing to spend.
I used to rescue Rottweillers and still love the breed, I have seen some of the worst temperments I could imagine in any dog with some of the Rottis I cared for, all brought on by moronic ego chasers who thought it would be fun to make their BIG DOG A MEAN DOG TOO. It makes you wonder what they do to people if they are able to mistreat and beat an animal that way.
Fair treatment and a lot of patience turned the rottis in my care around... although sometimes it took more than a year.

I believe that your bitterness is somewhat justified considering what you have to face every day in the shelter but cut some slack here when making blanket statements about all pet owners.

[Delirium]

I realize that it is unfair to the thousands of dogs and cats that are pts in shelters every year however

And this is why I agree 100% with Cflat. Its not about us. Its about the millions of dogs dying every year. We're suffering an epidemic and during an epidemic its time to put down the hobbies and other unnecessaries and focus on fixing the problem. Once we've got homes for all of the angels in shelters and rescues, then lets talk nice to haves. In the meantime, pick up a shovel. Its time to get dirty. Every breeder, bad or worse, takes up potential animal friendly space in homes around the country. They should be referring every single one of their potential customers to shelters and rescues near to them and assisting them in finding a preexisting dog that meets their needs/requirements. Saving lives: Now THAT's what I call working for the betterment of a breed.

Wish we had the luxury to afford choice.

Dee

[pitbulliest]

Again, I have to disagree. It is actually the responsible breeders that probably do more for breed rescues and shelters than any of us. They are very active, like I said, when it comes to these issues. Again, its the BYB that we need to focus on. They're the ones that puppy mill their way through life. A responsible breeder will have at the most, a litter per year, but usually once every two years or even more...not to mention, those dogs DO NOT end up in shelters.

As for the dogs in shelters, well again those animals are there because of BYB and uneducated people that purchase the dogs from them and pet shops. As for your comment about breeders referring customers to shelters...that is exactly what happens at least 70% of the time. The breeders that I know breed show quality dogs...and occassionally they will have "pet" dogs for sale...but they do heavy screenings on homes..and if you have no experience...and aren't planning to show your dog..then they tell you that you should be looking at adopting a dog...these breeders have a waiting list. Some people are waiting for 3 or 4 years..or even more, to get that "pet" dog. I really don't think responsible breeders add to the problem...I think they do alot to help out homeless dogs, and it would be absolutely wrong to give them the evil eye when its clearly not them that are causing this whole ordeal in the first place. What needs to be stopped are the BYB and the puppy mills...if people stopped buying dogs from pet shops, the problem would decrease tenfold!!!

Remember, responsible breeders are on OUR side..

[Delirium]

That's the thing. Its not clear. I have seen even championship dogs available for adoption on petfinder. They're bringing dogs into an already over crowded world. A travesty for which there is no excuse. If every dog owner who at one point in their life bought a dog from a breeder of any degree of evil adopted a shelter dog instead, we wouldn't be in nearly half the state we're in today. So called "responsible" breeders included. Of course I use the term only in an attempt to translate.

Also, showing is currently a horrible farce. An antiquated pasttime, long since past its appropriateness in today's society. Only when these archaic organizations bring their practices into the modern world and not only accept but require spaying and neutering before competition in the ring will I consider them valid. As it stands today, they contribute to the epidemic of overpopulation directly and also by adding to the impression that a fixed dog is "broken" or unacceptable.

Dee

[pitbulliest]

You say that its not clear..but IT IS..its very clear...there are strict guidelines to being a responsible breeder..and if a person falls out of those guidelines...than they're not responsible breeders..end of story...that's why there are so few to begin with...

Anyways...I'm finished with this thread as we will choose to believe what they want to believe. I say focus on the BYB idiots and the puppy mills...when we get rid of them, then we'll worry about the next step.

[Bugsy]

In my opinion, the blame should be put on the irresponsible owners
period. It's just all about supply & demand. :sad:

Now, if we could get potential new owners to think beyond their noses....

[mona_b]

Amen Pit.

You have done your homework...

I just need to add a couple of things...My GSDs have come from a VERY reputable licenced breeder.I was put on a waiting list BEFORE breeding was to take place.I was put through a lot of red tape.I was also put on a no-breeding contract.That meant if I didn't have them neutured,I would have been fined $5000.I had to show her the vets papers to prove it.My breeder also did rescue work and belonged to the clubs.3 of my GSD's have come from her.My one is a retired Police Dog that I had and trained for 18 months before he went to my work with my brother.Yes,Police dogs come from licenced breeders.It's the BYB's we should be focusing on.They are the ones who are doing it for money only.They breed wat before it should be done.And I mean before the age of 2.They are not doing any heath or genetic testing.They are not OVF or OVC checked.These are the ones we are seeing in the sheltersAnd you will not see licenced responsible breeders advertising in the paper.

Here is a very good link.

http://geocities.com/petsburgh/fair/1901/chart.html