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Old March 17th, 2011, 03:24 AM
sways_bodyguard sways_bodyguard is offline
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Protecting my dogs during the radiation fallout from Japan

Protecting my dogs during the radiation fallout from Japan...

Hello, I'm actually in Southern California, and I have 2 dogs (45 lbs. each) for whom I'm trying to find some good advice concerning potassium iodate/iodide doses...

Please, lets skip the fact that the media and the government is telling us that "it's not a concern," or that "the majority of the radiation will have dissipated by the time it arrives in North America" etc.
That is all debatable and besides the point...
All I do know is that they have continuously lied about the seriousness of this disaster, and have had to backtrack 4 or 5 times now with exposing more and more of what is really happening at these fractured power plants...

What I want to try and find out, is 1) what is an appropriate daily dose in MG, not MCG of potassium iodate/natural iodide/or even kelp, for a dog of around 45 lbs... and 2) what are the concerns, short term and long term, if any, of providing such a dose.

I definitely want to provide my dogs with a base of protection in their thyroid and elsewhere, against any fraction of radioactive iodine fallout-
I know this may sound crazy, but I know I am not the only one wondering about this question at this time...

Any help would be greatly appreciated-
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Old March 17th, 2011, 07:52 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Hi sway and welcome back .

I don't have any advice for you, but would love to see your two new dogs
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Old March 17th, 2011, 10:31 AM
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luckypenny luckypenny is offline
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Welcome back SB .

284 mcg or .284 mg of iodine is the recommended daily allowance for a 45lb dog by the National Research Council (NRC). There is no safe upper limit listed so it's not something I'd give more of.

You'd also have to take into account the amount of iodine already included in your dogs' diets so you know to supplement the appropriate quantity. If you're feeding kibble, it should be listed on the package. If home cooking/raw, you can find the nutritional analysis of most foods here:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/index.html

1/4 teaspoon iodized salt contains 0.075mg iodine.
1/4 teaspoon kelp contains approximately 0.5mg iodine (I would suggest you contact the company/manufacturer for an accurate amount).

I do know that iodine excess causes thyroid problems and can be severe.
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Old March 17th, 2011, 10:40 AM
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luckypenny luckypenny is offline
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Oy, I should read more carefully . You're asking about potassium iodate, not iodine.

Wish I could be of help .
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Old March 17th, 2011, 10:41 AM
TokyoParrot TokyoParrot is offline
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do not confuse potassium iodide with potassium iodate!

Please DO NOT give your dog potassium iodide, and please also DO NOT give your dog potassium iodate. Neither should be taken unless there is the imminent danger of a nuclear radiation emergency. In particular, potassium iodate in large doses affects the kidneys and the central nervous system, so proper dosing is a major issue (dosing is also a major issue with potassium iodide, mind you...). You can do MUCH more harm than good by giving either of these unnecessarily. (Note: While potassium iodide is the only one of these two approved by the US FDA, potassium iodate is approved by other countries for nuclear radiation emergencies.)

Radiation will oxidize cells, so you should be upping your antioxidants.

For humans, the best are:
goji berries
prunes
raisins
other various berries (blueberries etc-- google this; it comes up easily)
vitamin C (such as powdered C6H8O6, but regular old vitamin C tabs are fine)

For dogs:
goji berries: unknown how dogs react to this. you should avoid these to be safe.
prunes: not clear how dogs are affected by these. pits are definite no-nos, juice is definitely OK, and the fruit itself (de-pitted, obviously) is thought to be OK, but since prunes are related to raisins, some recommend you avoid these. maybe best to avoid just to be safe, but do your own research.
raisins: do not give to dogs-- causes kidney damage

Other antioxidants include vitamin C and vitamin E. Both are OK for dogs. (Be careful about vitamin E for cats; their tolerance is MUCH lower than for dogs.)

Vitamin C is water-soluble. That means it is not stored in the body, as fat-soluble ones are. Anything over and above what your body needs, you (and your dog) will simply pee out, so it is never toxic at any dosage.

That said, many people get diarrhea if they take too many vitamin C tabs at once. This is a reaction to the binding agent that holds the stuff into a nice tablet shape, and not a reaction to the vitamin C itself. This is why the powdered stuff is recommended over the tablets if you are going to take a large serving, but they are really the same thing; only the amount your body is able to take at one time is different. (You most certainly WILL eventually reach bowel tolerance with the powdered vitamin C, but you will be able to get much more into your system than if you take the tablet form.)

Google "vitamin C dogs" and you will find various recommendations about the form of vitamin C that is recommended for pets. I would recommend sodium ascorbate (C6H7NaO6) because it doesn't have that acidic taste, so they will be less likely to snub food containing it. You will find that their pee becomes more concentrated (i.e., yellower). Anyway there are various recommendations out there, so google it to read the literature for yourself.

Broccoli, spinach, and Brussels sprouts are also pretty good anti-oxidants. You should not feed too much of these for other reasons (google this if you are not sure why-- reasonable amounts are OK but large amounts are bad for dogs).

You really should not take potassium iodide unless in imminent danger of exposure, which the US is NOT in. (I totally get your point about lack of information-- believe me, those of us living in Tokyo have been climbing the walls to get more information-- but the fact is, you are NOT in a situation where you should take potassium iodide.) It is most definitely harmful to health. That said, radioactive iodine will damage your thyroid more, so if you are in imminent danger of a radiological event, that is a different story; in that case you would choose the lesser of two evils and take the pills. You are NOT in that situation in the US by any stretch of the imagination. You will absolutely do more harm than good by taking these.

I have no medical background whatsoever, which tells you something right there about the value of my comments. Please do your own research (which I know you are doing... we are too over here in Japan!).

I do think that anti-oxidants are the way to go here, and I look forward to other people's contributions & wisdom about that point, whether pro- or anti-.

Stay indoors if a plume comes over to the US; cover your mouth with a wet cloth if you must go outside and shower upon returning (this is the advice we have been receiving in Tokyo this week). Leave clothing all in one spot when you enter the house so as not to bring the radiation inside. Limit outside activity and turn off your air conditioning units. And pray for us over here in Japan. God help Japan.

Last edited by TokyoParrot; March 17th, 2011 at 12:48 PM. Reason: to improve accuracy
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  #6  
Old March 17th, 2011, 11:05 AM
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Goldfields Goldfields is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoParrot View Post

DO NOT take potassium iodide unless in imminent danger of exposure, which the US is NOT in. (I totally get your point about lack of information-- believe me, those of us living in Tokyo have been climbing the walls to get more information-- but the fact is, you are NOT in a situation where you should take potassium iodide.) It can easily damage your thyroid by taking it. Radioactive iodine will damage your thyroid more, so if you are in imminent danger of a radiological event, that is a different story; in that case you would choose the lesser of two evils and take the pills. You are NOT in that situation in the US by any stretch of the imagination. You will absolutely do more harm than good by taking these.

Instead, stay indoors if a plume comes over to the US. Limit outside activity and turn off your air conditioning unit. And pray for us over here in Japan. God help Japan.
On our news in Australia it did say that some Americans and Canadians were over reacting when they aren't at risk. Sway, please be guided by your vet before giving anything like that to your dog.
Tokyo Parrot, I've shed quite a few tears for the poor Japanese. I hope this right now is as bad as it gets. for everyone there. Stay safe. The cleanup, when and if it happens, will be such a daunting task. The view up the valley from one of the seaside towns, full as far as the eye can see with destroyed homes, unbelievable. that they get the reactors under control soon.
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Old March 17th, 2011, 11:25 AM
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Dog Dancer Dog Dancer is offline
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I have to agree with TP. Don't over react and do something that will ultimately harm yourself or your pets. Speak to your vet if you are that concerned.

TP I truly hope the situation in Japan stabilizes soon with the reactors and I pray to God that there is some quick recovery for the survivors. Such a devastating situation - my prayers are with all of you.
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  #8  
Old March 17th, 2011, 11:31 AM
sways_bodyguard sways_bodyguard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoParrot View Post
DO NOT give your dog potassium iodide, and for the love of heaven, do not even THINK about giving your dog (or yourself) potassium iodate. Potassium iodate is a POISON affecting the kidneys and the central nervous system. You will absolutely poison yourself and you will absolutely poison your dog. (Type in "potassium iodate poison" into google to do your own research. Beware of unscientific websites like answers dot com or yahoo or what have you that have laymen answering questions.)

Radiation will oxidize cells, so you should be upping your antioxidants.

For humans, the best are:
goji berries
prunes
raisins
other various berries (blueberries etc-- google this; it comes up easily)
vitamin C (such as powdered C6H8O6, but regular old vitamin C tabs are fine)

For dogs:
goji berries: unknown how dogs react to this. you should avoid these to be safe.
prunes: not clear how dogs are affected by these. pits are definite no-nos, juice is definitely OK, and the fruit itself (de-pitted, obviously) is thought to be OK, but since prunes are related to raisins, some recommend you avoid these. maybe best to avoid just to be safe, but do your own research.
raisins: do not give to dogs-- causes kidney damage

Other antioxidants are vitamin C and vitamin E. Both are OK for dogs. (Be careful about vitamin E for cats; their tolerance is MUCH lower than for dogs.)

Vitamin C is water-soluble. That means it is not stored in the body, as fat-soluble ones are. Anything over and above what your body needs, you (and your dog) will simply pee out, so it is never toxic at any dosage.

That said, many people get diarrhea if they take too many vitamin C tabs at once. This is a reaction to the binding agent that holds the stuff into a nice tablet shape, and not a reaction to the vitamin C itself. This is why the powdered stuff is recommended over the tablets if you are going to take a large serving, but they are really the same thing; only the amount your body is able to take at one time is different. (You most certainly WILL eventually reach bowel tolerance with the powdered vitamin C, but you will be able to get much more into your system than if you take the tablet form.)

Google "vitamin C dogs" and you will find various recommendations about the form of vitamin C that is recommended for pets. I would recommend sodium ascorbate (C6H7NaO6) because it doesn't have that acidic taste, so they will be less likely to snub food containing it. You will find that their pee becomes more concentrated (i.e., yellower). Anyway there are various recommendations out there, so google it to read the literature for yourself.

Broccoli, spinach, and Brussels sprouts are also pretty good anti-oxidants. You should not feed too much of these for other reasons (google this if you are not sure why-- reasonable amounts are OK but large amounts are bad for dogs).

DO NOT take potassium iodide unless in imminent danger of exposure, which the US is NOT in. (I totally get your point about lack of information-- believe me, those of us living in Tokyo have been climbing the walls to get more information-- but the fact is, you are NOT in a situation where you should take potassium iodide.) It can easily damage your thyroid by taking it. Radioactive iodine will damage your thyroid more, so if you are in imminent danger of a radiological event, that is a different story; in that case you would choose the lesser of two evils and take the pills. You are NOT in that situation in the US by any stretch of the imagination. You will absolutely do more harm than good by taking these.

Instead, stay indoors if a plume comes over to the US. Limit outside activity and turn off your air conditioning unit. And pray for us over here in Japan. God help Japan.
potassium iodate is most definitely NOT a poison...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_iodate
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  #9  
Old March 17th, 2011, 11:35 AM
sways_bodyguard sways_bodyguard is offline
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and japan is in my prayers...
be safe!!
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  #10  
Old March 17th, 2011, 12:30 PM
TokyoParrot TokyoParrot is offline
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The FDA has NOT approved potassium iodate for use in radiological emergencies. I believe that it (as with many things) is an issue of dosage-- it can be used in table salt, for example, but my understanding is that it is considered toxic in large quantities, most notably because of the potential for kidney damage (which is why people with renal issues are not supposed to take potassium iodate). I believe that this is the reason why the WHO/FAO says that it is OK for table salt but not OK for adding to staple foods like flour-- you overdose on it.

I have no medical background whatsoever so please take everything I say with a large grain of 'salt' (nyuk, nyuk ... little pun there... hopefully won't be turning into gallows humor over here by the end of the week).

All that said, if you want to say that potassium iodide is also toxic in large quantities, then I have to agree! It is a "lesser of two evils" situation, as far as I can figure out.

Since potassium iodate is most definitely approved in other countries for radiological events, I will go edit my post above to reflect that fact. Thank you for following up on that and pointing it out!
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Old March 17th, 2011, 12:54 PM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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TokyoParrot, My thoughts are with those in Japan now.
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Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

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Old March 17th, 2011, 11:19 PM
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TokyoParrot thank you and I hope you and your family & friends are safe, Japan is in my prayers.
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  #13  
Old March 18th, 2011, 12:17 AM
sways_bodyguard sways_bodyguard is offline
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the FDA do not approve of the use of any vitamins, for basically anything...
they are big pharma, and basically the opposite of anyone who believes in natural or holistic medicine...
so their endorsement, or lack there of means squat to me
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  #14  
Old March 18th, 2011, 12:18 AM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sways_bodyguard View Post
What I want to try and find out, is 1) what is an appropriate daily dose in MG, not MCG of potassium iodate/natural iodide/or even kelp, for a dog of around 45 lbs... and 2) what are the concerns, short term and long term, if any, of providing such a dose.
There are inert ingredients in any medication or supplement, as well as different forms of supplements. I would be very cautious about providing your dog with supplements designed for humans, as there may be risks or a need for a different per-bodyweight dosage. Most pharmacists can not provide you information on giving their supplements to dogs; your vet may or may not know whether certain ones are safe. All of your supplements are available in canine form and I would argue the possibly higher cost is worth it. The dosage, of course, will be provided by the manufacturer or by your prescribing vet.

In humans there are documented adverse reactions to "normal" doses in some individuals. And too much can harm the same thyroid you are trying to protect.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 02:20 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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I was reading the other day that one thing that radiation sickness does is alter the flora in the gut. I would add probiotics to the list of antioxidants as battling radiation induced disease.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 11:19 AM
luvmypet luvmypet is offline
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Hello sways_bodyguard

I found your thread on Google and immediately joined this site. I am thankful that you posted something about radiation fallout from Japan and illness to animals. My cat has been sick since the plumbe supposedly hit the West Coast. I know the news said that there would be no ill effects on humans????? but what about animals. They are small and low to the ground. I have an indoor cat and she likes to sit by the open door. Maybe I should keep everything closed.

Oh, I too am in Southern California,
luvmypet
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