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Old March 11th, 2011, 03:47 PM
whimsicalator whimsicalator is offline
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Grain-free vs. non grain-free diet?

I have never had a kitten before and recently adopted one. I took my baby to the vet for the first time for his first round of shots and the vets insisted that I feed him "Purina Vet-Approved Pediatric" food. When I countered by saying that I fed him what I had heard was a healthier diet, e.g. grain-free, the vet clinicians responded that the grain-free is better idea is just a myth, that it's better for the kitten to get fed these vet science-y diets (which apparently includes things like corn-meal, gluten, grains, etc.) so that he gets all of his nutrients....

I want my kitten to stay healthy in every possible way for as long as possible. It was tough to believe the clinicians because they really seemed to be product pushing. (I won't go into all the details of our conversation that led me to believe that they were product pushing but I strongly felt that this was the was the case).

Currently, I feed my 14-week old indoor cat the "Now!" brand's grain-free kitten dry food formula (turkey, duck, and salmon...the only kind they have).
If you all have an opinion about grain versus grain-free or know of anything better, please feel free to dole out advice. Again...I've never, ever had a cat before and now I have a (beautiful) little kitten to take care of so I'm a new parent complete with the "am I doing it right?" jitters!

Thanks
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Old March 11th, 2011, 03:54 PM
Jim Hall Jim Hall is offline
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kost vets know zilch about good cat food I usually respond " have you ever seen a cat eat green beans?

the best is grain free wet food that way they get there water and food too like they would in the wild

best of luck with your kitty and welcome to the forum
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Old March 11th, 2011, 04:39 PM
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The very best thing you can do for your kitten is to get him off the dry food all together and onto a good canned food. Cats need their fluids with their food, not beside their food.
This is a wonderful site to read. It is an eye opener. www.catinfo.org.
Of course vets and their techs will tell you their food is the best thing going. They make money off of every bag/can they sell. Cats are obligate carnivours. They need meat. Not veggies, not corn (we can't digest corn so how can cats?), not grains.

Ooops, sorry. Forgot to give you some names of foods. Wellness kitten is a good all round food to give your little one a good start. He can then graduate to Wellness grain free, Natural Balance, Innova Evo, etc. If you real labels you can quickly tell what foods are good and which ones aren't so good.
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Last edited by 14+kitties; March 11th, 2011 at 05:00 PM.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 05:07 PM
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Grain-free for sure for a cat/kitten,I am not certain ,but I believe "Now"also comes in canned,definitely better to get her used to canned from the start.
There are several good canned foods grainfree.

I too had a vet who pushed the bad stuff,actually there were several vets in the office,after arguing with them about this and that,food included,I now have a wonderful vet who agrees 100% on grain-free canned.
I also wanted to say,WELCOME TO OUR FORUM and to the wonderful world of kittens/cats
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Old March 11th, 2011, 05:40 PM
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I went grain free with my dogs and what a difference in their stools. A lot less to pick up as well. I am convinced it's best. You should read what's in the vet's prescription kibble...........
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Old March 11th, 2011, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whimsicalator View Post
I have never had a kitten before and recently adopted one.
Congratulations! Kittens are awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whimsicalator View Post
the vets insisted that I feed him "Purina Vet-Approved Pediatric" food.
Of course they did! Cause they're clueless about feline nutrition, just like a huge majority of vets are. The education they receive on the subject is basically a bunch of propaganda put out by the pet food companies themselves, and then there's the obvious conflict of interest in pushing a product that they make money from. So good for you for questioning their logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whimsicalator View Post
I want my kitten to stay healthy in every possible way for as long as possible.
Awesome! I like your attitude. And since diet is probably the most important aspect of good health after genetics, it's great that you want to start your kitten off on a good quality food (which excludes pretty much every single vet food out there). Even though good food can be expensive, the money you'll save in vet bills over the long-haul will more than make up for it.

Now having said that, it would be best if you could switch your kitten over to all wet food, as 14+ mentioned. Kibble, even grain-free, is not an appropriate feline diet, for reasons thoroughly discussed in the catinfo link. There are lots of really good canned food choices, and even balanced frozen raw food that's as easy to feed as opening a can. If you're feeling particularly adventurous, you can even make your own raw with a bit of research beforehand.

I also urge you to limit the amount of vaccinations your kitten gets. I'm running out of time so I'll just post a link for you to check out on that topic: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....t=vaccinations
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Old March 14th, 2011, 11:13 AM
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kost vets know zilch about good cat food I usually respond " have you ever seen a cat eat green beans?
On a bit of side humor:
Yes, One of my adopted cats likes green beans and coldslaw. I think that her former profession was thief and garbage eater.

ps. no, I do not feed her a diet of green beans and coldslaw.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 11:24 AM
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I can certainly tell you that a kitten who is on a raw/quality canned diet WILL develop more muscle mass than a kitten on kibble or low quality food. That in itself is proof that meat protein is so important in the development of the kitten.

You could always ask your vet where in a carnivore's diet corn/wheat gluten fits in?
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Old March 18th, 2011, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by whimsicalator View Post
I have never had a kitten before and recently adopted one. I took my baby to the vet for the first time for his first round of shots and the vets insisted that I feed him "Purina Vet-Approved Pediatric" food. When I countered by saying that I fed him what I had heard was a healthier diet, e.g. grain-free, the vet clinicians responded that the grain-free is better idea is just a myth, that it's better for the kitten to get fed these vet science-y diets (which apparently includes things like corn-meal, gluten, grains, etc.) so that he gets all of his nutrients....

I want my kitten to stay healthy in every possible way for as long as possible. It was tough to believe the clinicians because they really seemed to be product pushing. (I won't go into all the details of our conversation that led me to believe that they were product pushing but I strongly felt that this was the was the case).

Currently, I feed my 14-week old indoor cat the "Now!" brand's grain-free kitten dry food formula (turkey, duck, and salmon...the only kind they have).
If you all have an opinion about grain versus grain-free or know of anything better, please feel free to dole out advice. Again...I've never, ever had a cat before and now I have a (beautiful) little kitten to take care of so I'm a new parent complete with the "am I doing it right?" jitters!

Thanks
Purina is one of the companies responsible for nutrition research and their foods are good and adequate. Some reasons your vet would recommend it are
1) It is way better than than the cheap junk many kittens are fed
2) If it's on your vet's shelf, your vet gets a cut of the price
3) As it is your first kitten maybe you would not know where to start.
4) Research into grain-free diets, raw diets, herbal/veggie/fruit supplements is minimal, and your vet may be one who doesn't believe anything until it is proven in research.
5) There are, in fact, so many brands and varieties out there that your vet hasn't the time to become familiar with them.

Companies like Petcurean use the research Purina has done to make a food that has all the nutrients your kitten does, and then add in their own features: grain-free, low processing, no artificial preservatives, various holistic herb/fruit/veggie supplements... If you look at the ingredients label on your bag of Now!, you will see a long list of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. that they have added to ensure your kitty gets what she needs. You will also an AAFCO statement, don't feed anything without one on the label.

I do believe that you have made a good choice for your kitten. But keep in mind, every kitten is an individual, if your kitten is healthy, the food is working.

However, if I were you, I would seriously consider a new vet. As a person who is interested in newer ideas, and a more holistic approach to your kitten's health and nutrition, you would be better matched with a vet who is comfortable with your philosophies. I would also have some concerns that a product-pushing vet might also encourage you to do unnecessary tests or procedures, rather than doing what's best for your kitten and listening to your choices and opinions.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 08:35 AM
exkalibur exkalibur is offline
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Purina is one of the companies responsible for nutrition research and their foods are good and adequate.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
Purina is one of the companies responsible for nutrition research and their foods are good and adequate.

It's a good thing some folks want to feed more than adequate food.

Some reasons your vet would recommend it are
1) It is way better than than the cheap junk many kittens are fed

No, it IS the cheap junk food a lot of kittens and cats are fed.

2) If it's on your vet's shelf, your vet gets a cut of the price

That's true.

3) As it is your first kitten maybe you would not know where to start.

But with all of the web sites and great info out there these days it's much easier to find the right info. Sites like www.catinfo.org are a great place to start.

4) Research into grain-free diets, raw diets, herbal/veggie/fruit supplements is minimal, and your vet may be one who doesn't believe anything until it is proven in research.

Really? So it's ok to feed obligate carnivours things like herbs, veggies, fruit? What purpose does it serve? Cats can not and will not survive on a veggie diet. There has actually been a lot of research done lately. Vets research unfortunately is greatly skewed by the giant food companies that also are their "teachers" if they choose to take food nutrition while in school. Raw "diets" are exactly what cats survived and thrived on for years before human intervention.


5) There are, in fact, so many brands and varieties out there that your vet hasn't the time to become familiar with them.

A good vet will make themselves familiar with them.

Companies like Petcurean use the research Purina has done to make a food that has all the nutrients your kitten does, and then add in their own features: grain-free, low processing, no artificial preservatives, various holistic herb/fruit/veggie supplements... If you look at the ingredients label on your bag of Now!, you will see a long list of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. that they have added to ensure your kitty gets what she needs. You will also an AAFCO statement, don't feed anything without one on the label.

If you look at the same bag of Purina Cat Chow you will see the same list of vitamins, etc. You will also see lots more - grains (cats don't need), by products , flavour enhancers, etc. But, ironically, that bag of dry food, no matter what kind, should never be on the shelves to begin with. Cats need their fluids with their food, not beside it. As for the AAFCO - that's another different discussion.

I do believe that you have made a good choice for your kitten. But keep in mind, every kitten is an individual, if your kitten is healthy, the food is working.
However, if I were you, I would seriously consider a new vet. As a person who is interested in newer ideas, and a more holistic approach to your kitten's health and nutrition, you would be better matched with a vet who is comfortable with your philosophies. I would also have some concerns that a product-pushing vet might also encourage you to do unnecessary tests or procedures, rather than doing what's best for your kitten and listening to your choices and opinions.
That's interesting because my vet also sells that food. She knows my views on it and does not push it. She also does not do unnecessary tests.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
Purina is one of the companies responsible for nutrition research and their foods are good and adequate. If you look at the ingredients label on your bag of Now!, you will see a long list of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. that they have added to ensure your kitty gets what she needs. You will also an AAFCO statement, don't feed anything without one on the label.
You must own stock in Purina or something.

9-Lives has a pretty decent list of vitamins and minerals on their label too, but I wouldn't feed that to my worst enemy.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
Companies like Petcurean use the research Purina has done to make a food that has all the nutrients your kitten does, and then add in their own features: grain-free, low processing, no artificial preservatives, various holistic herb/fruit/veggie supplements... If you look at the ingredients label on your bag of Now!, you will see a long list of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. that they have added to ensure your kitty gets what she needs. You will also an AAFCO statement, don't feed anything without one on the label.
Yes, the companies that manufacture the premium pet foods use the research that Purina has done but then they go a step further and use genuine meat protein and human grade ingredients to improve the quality of their foods.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 04:31 PM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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That's interesting because my vet also sells that food. She knows my views on it and does not push it. She also does not do unnecessary tests.
Exactly. I believe they are linked. My concerns for whimsicalator's vet are that
1) His income is higher priority than what's best for the cat, and
2) He thought he knew everything 20 years ago, quit learning, and knows little of recent advances in nutrition or elsewhere.

If you need to confirm for yourself that Purina is nowhere near the bottom of the barrel, you may need to look harder. You may be shocked what's out there that people feed their cats.

Now! does have canned food as well. Please be careful when you say a cat should have their water with their food not beside it. A cat should always have access to clean fresh water regardless of what they are fed, and I am quite certain more than once I have seen a stray cat on a very natural mouse-based diet drink water.

Yes I do believe it is okay to feed a cat fruits, vegetables, and even grains. Carnivore is a relative term: dogs are more carnivorous than humans; cats are more carnivorous than dogs. Feral, farm, and wild cats do not eat solely muscle meat, they eat the the whole animal, including the large portion of the prey that is their stomach and intestinal contents. They will also eat vegetable amount in varying smaller amounts. No, I do not believe wheat, rice, corn, etc. should be a large portion of the diet of a cat, dog, or human.

I would love to see a tested approved mouse-based or rabbit-based raw diet that would be more suitable for cats and small dogs. I know they exist, but only in vary large cities.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
Exactly. I believe they are linked. My concerns for whimsicalator's vet are that
1) His income is higher priority than what's best for the cat, and
2) He thought he knew everything 20 years ago, quit learning, and knows little of recent advances in nutrition or elsewhere.

It's great that you got that out of the little bit whimsicalator typed. Me - guess I have a little more faith in human nature. I just got vet wants to make a little more money so pushes the food he sells. I wouldn't necessarily say his income is higher priority than the patients he is supposed to be looking after. He probably would have been out of business by now if that were the case. Word of mouth about a bad vet goes a long way.

If you need to confirm for yourself that Purina is nowhere near the bottom of the barrel, you may need to look harder. You may be shocked what's out there that people feed their cats.

I don't need to confirm anything thanks. I work in a place where the crappiest food is sold daily. I risk losing my job trying to convince people t buy a better quality, canned food. Surprisingly not something my store sells. I direct them to a good pet food store. That along with the research I have done and our marvellous cat guru(s) on Pets and learning how to read ingredients labels has done marvels for my education re pet food.

Now! does have canned food as well. Please be careful when you say a cat should have their water with their food not beside it. A cat should always have access to clean fresh water regardless of what they are fed, and I am quite certain more than once I have seen a stray cat on a very natural mouse-based diet drink water.

Yes, Now does. But - the OP was speaking of feeding her kitten dry Now so that is what I have focused on. I do believe when members replied they explained the difference between dry and wet. I also do not believe I ever said not to give your cat water. Please be so kind as to point that out to me. If you can find it I will apologize. As with any animal I figured it was common sense to leave water out for them. Didn't think it needed to be said. You can also add extra water to the canned food if you are concerned your cat is not getting enough to drink or is showing signs of dehydration.

Yes I do believe it is okay to feed a cat fruits, vegetables, and even grains. Carnivore is a relative term: dogs are more carnivorous than humans; cats are more carnivorous than dogs. Feral, farm, and wild cats do not eat solely muscle meat, they eat the the whole animal, including the large portion of the prey that is their stomach and intestinal contents. They will also eat vegetable amount in varying smaller amounts. No, I do not believe wheat, rice, corn, etc. should be a large portion of the diet of a cat, dog, or human.

Interesting that you have seen that. With all of the feral cats I have worked with over the years that brought me wonderful pressies of mice, rabbits, etc and then proceeded to eat them in front of me not one ate the intestines or stomach contents. When I wasn't fortunate to see the body before kitty(s) decided to make done with it I was normally lucky enough to step in said stomach/intestines. But then I haven't worked with that many I suppose that I can make that type of judgement.


I would love to see a tested approved mouse-based or rabbit-based raw diet that would be more suitable for cats and small dogs. I know they exist, but only in vary large cities.
We are speaking about cats here, not dogs. They have completely different dietary needs. Earlier on in this thread I posted a web site. Interesting reading if you have the time. There are many many more out there as well.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 06:10 PM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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You said:
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Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
The very best thing you can do for your kitten is to get him off the dry food all together and onto a good canned food. Cats need their fluids with their food, not beside their food.
Common sense is great, but I'm afraid it is not common at all. The statement can easily be interpreted as discouraging the presentation of water separate from the food.
A cat needs a bowl of fresh water available regardless of what she is fed, and regardless of how rarely some cats may use it. You could wet their food to the point of soup, and I would still say, offer the plain fresh water for whenever they want or need it.

Good luck with the job.

I'll go to that website and get back to you on what I read, it's a bit long so not right now.

As for what I was saying about mice and rabbits, I was unclear. I did not mean that an identical diet would be suitable for both cats and dogs. I was just stating that a major natural meat source that would be a suitable ingredient for a raw cat food and for a raw small dog food is largely unavailable.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 06:21 PM
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there is an all meat based diet,,it's called a raw diet...where you go to the store buy raw meat,,organ meats,,etc prepare it in proper amounts then feed it to your pets,,personally that is the best diet for a pet over canned or kibble.

To the OP,,a canned diet would be much better for your kitten. Wellness, Evo etc are excellent foods,,i would rather feed an kitten a less than perfect canned diet over a kibble diet any day and in the long run it will save you money on vet fees.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 06:41 PM
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there is an all meat based diet,,it's called a raw diet...where you go to the store buy raw meat,,organ meats,,etc prepare it in proper amounts then feed it to your pets,,personally that is the best diet for a pet over canned or kibble.

To the OP,,a canned diet would be much better for your kitten. Wellness, Evo etc are excellent foods,,i would rather feed an kitten a less than perfect canned diet over a kibble diet any day and in the long run it will save you money on vet fees.
Since I have been a member on this forum I have learnt so much about feeding. Based on all the excellent advice given, I moved my cats to can Evo, and Wellness. The difference is amazing. They look great, coats are shining like no tommorrow, and I have not had a vet visit in almost 2.5 years.
Thank you so much to all those cat savvy people: L4H, SCM, Chico2 and of course 14+K..for all their knowledge and advice.

And of course yes...Aslan as well.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 07:40 PM
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You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties
The very best thing you can do for your kitten is to get him off the dry food all together and onto a good canned food. Cats need their fluids with their food, not beside their food.
Common sense is great, but I'm afraid it is not common at all. The statement can easily be interpreted as discouraging the presentation of water separate from the food. Regardless of how rarely some cats may use it. You could wet their food to the point of soup, and I would still say, offer the plain fresh water for whenever they want or need it.

Ahh, I see. I suppose that "could" in a stretch be taken that I meant not to leave water out for your cats so - I will apologize. I would hope there are not that many asinine people out there that would be so _______ (fill in the blank) as to think cats do not need water. I will rectify that immediately. Cats, because of their long ago origin as being desert dwellers, if given a "natural" diet of mice, rabbits and other small animals, derive most of their fluid intake from the very animals they eat. If not given that choice then they need a diet, canned or balanced raw, where their water should be included. Yes, they still need a bowl of fresh water when/if they chose to drink water.

I'll go to that website and get back to you on what I read, it's a bit long so not right now.

As for what I was saying about mice and rabbits, I was unclear. I did not mean that an identical diet would be suitable for both cats and dogs. I was just stating that a major natural meat source that would be a suitable ingredient for a raw cat food and for a raw small dog food is largely unavailable.

Mmmmm, there was a member a while back - didn't stick around for long - who stated that he figured that mice could be raised akin to livestock; being left in the garage with "the wife" throwing feed to them. See why he wasn't around long? He was then going to put his dog in an I think "empty or spare" room to "catch" the mouse which I am assuming his poor wife would have had to pick and take to said room. Sorry to be so .
As for a suitable natural meat source - I do not live in a large city but I can go to my Pet Valu and get raw foods for my cats (if they would deign to eat it, spoiled little buggers). Also, Global Pet Foods are now in quite a few smaller cities. They have a wonderful array of foods for cats and dogs. There is the hunter route if you so choose. There is even buying, as aslan stated, the meat source in a grocery store or from a butcher and making raw yourself. All readily available. There's always ways to get that natural meat source if you take the time to look.


Now really, we are going back and forth on the same thing. I think it's time to move on now. The member who started this thread has not been back to reply. If the OP would like to come back and ask questions so she can learn about feeding her kitten I would be more than happy to help her. Other than that I am done "arguing" semantics.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 08:31 PM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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Lucky you to have never met one of those ******* people yet. Yes they are out there, and in this day and age they even have access to the internet. They are scary.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 10:06 PM
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Hi SamIam, welcome to pets.ca! Not to threadjack (okay, maybe a little) but I just want to address some of your points about cat food.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
Purina is one of the companies responsible for nutrition research and their foods are good and adequate.
Almost all "nutrition research" has been funded by various pet food companies (Hill's, Purina, Iams, Royal Canin, blah blah blah). Doesn't mean it's worth the paper it's written on. In fact, the bias of these companies to show their products in a favourable light taints the "research" considerably, from the design of the study all the way to the interpretation of the results and even whether or not the study gets published.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
1) It is way better than than the cheap junk many kittens are fed
Purina is cheap junk. I'm not sure what other cheap junk you're referring to, but here's a comparison of the first 4 ingredients in Purina Cat Chow, Meow Mix, and 9Lives, all of which are about the junkiest of the junk:

Purina Cat Chow
Corn meal
poultry by-product meal
corn gluten meal
soy flour

Meow Mix
ground yellow corn
corn gluten meal
chicken by-product meal
soybean meal

9Lives
Whole ground corn
poultry by-product meal
corn gluten meal
soybean meal

Gosh, remarkably similar wouldn't you say? If you can find a worse food on the market, please let me know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
4) Research into grain-free diets, raw diets, herbal/veggie/fruit supplements is minimal, and your vet may be one who doesn't believe anything until it is proven in research.
That's because, as I mentioned above, all pet food research is funded by pet food companies. Of course they aren't interested in studying a raw diet, that's not what they're selling/promoting. But the best "research" of all is right in front of our noses, and that's simply a matter of taking a look at what cats evolved eating over millennia. Fresh raw meat, in the form of juicy rodents, birds, lizards, insects, .... Not corn pops and rice cakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
You will also an AAFCO statement, don't feed anything without one on the label.
So my cats shouldn't eat mice ? Truth of the matter is that the AAFCO is a sham, populated largely by self-serving pet food company employees. Here is a tidbit from a rather eye-opening article on the pet food industry: http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/dat...Patrick06.html

Quote:
Americans own more than 130 million cats and dogs and spend over $12 billion per year on commercial pet foods. The commercial pet food industry faces minimal substantive regulation, despite navigating several layers of regulation from various groups including the FDA, the American Association of Feed Control Officials (AAFCO), and state regulators. The FDA entrusts AAFCO to issue regulations governing ingredients, feeding trials, labels and nutritional claims. But AAFCO’s rules fall short of ensuring that America’s pets receive adequate nutrition, or even foods that won’t cause chronic digestive, skin, eye, and coat problems. The influence by the pet food industry over AAFCO manifests itself through AAFCO’s irrational regulations, including ingredient definitions which effectively prohibit organic chickens and vegetables, while blindly permitting thousands of euthanized cats and dogs to make their way into pet foods through the unsupervised rendering industry. Trusting, but uneducated, consumers purchase these commercial pet foods under the assumption that the FDA or some other regulatory body has ensured that the foods contain “balanced” meals, and “complete” nutrition. These consumers naively believe veterinarians that endorse and sell pet foods from their offices while neglecting to mention that these “pet doctors” are often “on the take” and can earn up to 20% of their total income from such sales. This paper will examine the ways in which inadequate regulation results in confused consumers and sick, malnourished pets. Ultimately this paper seeks to reveal that multiple parties, including consumers themselves, share the blame for the current muddled state of regulation.
There are some really great commercial pet foods available, especially in the raw department, that don't have and never will have, the AAFCO "stamp of approval".

Something else you might not know is that an AAFCO feeding trial consists of feeding 8 cats or dogs the same food for 6 months. If 6 of the 8 animals survive the 6 months, then it's considered "complete and balanced for the life of your pet". I'm not making this up. I wish I were.

You might not remember this but in the '80s, a large number of cats became seriously ill due to a taurine deficiency. They'd been eating commercial cat food that had that good ol' AAFCO stamp, but were later discovered to be lacking sufficient taurine. A taurine deficiency takes many months, even years, to manifest as ill health. These foods passed the ridiculously lax feeding trial requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
But keep in mind, every kitten is an individual,
But it's still a CAT. With very specific feline nutritional requirements that don't have a lot of room for error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
if your kitten is healthy, the food is working.
Just because a cat looks healthy on the outside, doesn't mean there isn't damage being done on the inside. And the damage is often cumulative, over a period of many years. Diabetes doesn't pop up the first time you feed kibble. But by the time a cat is 8 or 9 or 12, all of those years of eating inappropriate food takes its toll and the pancreas burns out, or the kidneys start to fail, or the intestinal tract is so inflamed that no nutrients can be absorbed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
As a person who is interested in newer ideas, and a more holistic approach to your kitten's health and nutrition, you would be better matched with a vet who is comfortable with your philosophies.
This part, I agree with.
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  #22  
Old March 19th, 2011, 04:42 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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whimsicalator:

Welcome to Pets, it is a great place to learn about kitties.

The best diet for your kitten would be a properly prepared raw diet, no veggies or fruit needed. I do find, though, that commercially made raw diets can have too much bone in it and cause constipation, so what I have done when I was purchasing it was to add a bit of fresh meat to it.

Other really great foods are:

Wellness, canned, the grainfree varieties
Natures Variety, Instinct
Fromm's 4 star
Organics by Nature

These foods can be found in a quality pet food store, not in a grocery store.

You will find if you feed your kitten a raw diet, it will have superior muscle mass to a kibble diet, that is proof that it is far healthier than processed food, especially kibble.

As was pointed out in previous posts, cats should get their water from their food, that is the way nature intended for animals to get it. Nature did not provide glasses for animals to drink from, but just a tongue that is not efficient at lapping up water. Imagine yourself eating crackers all day and trying to get enough fluids by licking up water. That is what is happening to your cat if you feed it kibble. Your cat will be chronically dehydrated.

SamIam, just a quick comment on eating the contents of the stomach: My super hunter, Snowball, did not eat the contents of the stomach, usually just the heads, except if it was a baby bunny , then the contents of the stomach were left for me to clean up. . Also, a deer was killed by a pack of coyotes a couple of years ago in my back yard, The ONLY thing left behind was the contents of the stomach which the crows took care of.
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Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

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  #23  
Old March 19th, 2011, 04:58 AM
Love4himies's Avatar
Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boating in the 1000 Islands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
Purina is one of the companies responsible for nutrition research and their foods are good and adequate. Some reasons your vet would recommend it are
1) It is way better than than the cheap junk many kittens are fed

IMO, Purina is part of the "cheap junk" listings of cat food. corn and wheat gluten have no place in a carnivore's diet

2) If it's on your vet's shelf, your vet gets a cut of the price
so true

3) As it is your first kitten maybe you would not know where to start.
4) Research into grain-free diets, raw diets, herbal/veggie/fruit supplements is minimal, and your vet may be one who doesn't believe anything until it is proven in research.
Here is the proof. Cats have a very short digestive tract that can't extract protein from vegitation efficiently, it is made for animal protein. Cat's lack the enzyme, amylase that break down starches into carbs for energy, cats get their energy from meat protein and fat. Cats teeth are not made for breaking down plant cellular matter, but for ripping flesh and chewing bones. Cats need taurine, only found in it's natural state in uncooked meat/organs. I could go on, but I am sure you get the message. If I can figure this out, so should a vet.

5) There are, in fact, so many brands and varieties out there that your vet hasn't the time to become familiar with them.

That's a vet's job if he/she is expected to give nutritional advice, that vet should know what is good and not good foods for a cat.
Companies like Petcurean use the research Purina has done to make a food that has all the nutrients your kitten does, and then add in their own features: grain-free, low processing, no artificial preservatives, various holistic herb/fruit/veggie supplements... If you look at the ingredients label on your bag of Now!, you will see a long list of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. that they have added to ensure your kitty gets what she needs. You will also an AAFCO statement, don't feed anything without one on the label.

I make my own homemade raw, no stamp on it. I can tell you had I not changed my Puddles's food a few years ago from cheap kibble (probably made by Purina), to a quality canned and raw diet, she would probably be dead by now. When I wasn't making my own raw, I was feeding a commercial made raw and the vets (4 different ones in total), could not believe the muscle mass all my fosters had and how healthy they were.


I do believe that you have made a good choice for your kitten. But keep in mind, every kitten is an individual, if your kitten is healthy, the food is working.
All nutritionally complete food will show that your kitten is healthy, so do young smokers look healthy. It takes years to see the toll of what an unhealthy lifestyle will do.


However, if I were you, I would seriously consider a new vet. As a person who is interested in newer ideas, and a more holistic approach to your kitten's health and nutrition, you would be better matched with a vet who is comfortable with your philosophies. I would also have some concerns that a product-pushing vet might also encourage you to do unnecessary tests or procedures, rather than doing what's best for your kitten and listening to your choices and opinions.
I do so agree with your last statement. Hopefully the Op lives in an area where there is such a vet.
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Cat maid to:

Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey

Last edited by Love4himies; March 19th, 2011 at 07:31 AM. Reason: Had to add IMO in front of Purina
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