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Old January 26th, 2011, 01:49 AM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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Question Strangest Training Methods You've Come Across

What are some of the strangest methods you've heard of for training? I just recently come across one trainer that has the strangest ideas for training. Basically he seems to think that you have to connect with the dog on some sort of pyschological level to influence the dog's mind and take power away from the dog! He seems to accomplish mainly by walking the dog on a very short leash in a circle and constantly tugging on the dog's neck! That seems to be about all he does.

Scary thing is, is that he's written a few books and is handing out his very weird advice on Cesar Millan's fb page. Fortunately, it seems that most of the people that post there can't understand what in blazes he's talking about. I have a hard time cause most of his writing seems alot like mindless pyscho-babble! He even believes that puppies have accidents in the house because they're trying to influence their power over humans!! Not the fact that they have little control over their bodily functions cause they're babies!!

Just in case you want to get totally boggled with his training methods, mind you he doesn't really seem to have many followers and has only one location in Florida but he is Canadian (must be something in the water here that turns out some totally freaky trainers!) Supposedly too trains Police dogs and service dogs, doesn't seem possible though. So here's his website if you want to have a look. www.k9pack.com He's got a bunch of articles posted and I'm just curious to see if anybody finds this whole think just totally out in left field! Other than some of my dog friends on FB!
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Old January 26th, 2011, 09:42 AM
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This guy can't be serious. He has absolutely no credentials that I can find.

He's not out in the left field, he's right out of the ball bark playing without a bat . I just read a few of his articles (that he posts on websites himself), and he makes absolutely no sense. Not only can he not spell, he can't write. His articles are simply quotations of other professionals and a bunch of words shoved together in sentences providing absolutely no explanations.

The only thing he debunked in his article on clicker training is that he has any knowledge at all in terms of dog training.

And his house training article? Yep, every time my dogs go out to pee confirms that I have power over their minds alright .

Goes to show that anyone can call themselves a trainer and it's really a case of "buyer beware."
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Old January 26th, 2011, 10:46 AM
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erykah1310 erykah1310 is offline
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there is a local trainer here who insists that the only way any dog will learn long term is if it has a prong collar on. EVERY dog regardless of age or size is required to wear a prong collar, doesnt matter if its a toy poodle or st.bernard.
Her reasoning... "They learn faster and it sticks"
Really? Dont get me wrong prong collars are a great tool when needed ( weaker person walking a giant breed or a powerful puller type thing) I dread to think of the corrections given to those poor dogs. From taking several classes with my dogs with a different traine I have seen how some people just dont grasp training methods and are so quick to correct in extremely bizarre ways. I would hate to be in a room full of prong users.
I am thinking of joining a class with this trainer (bring Kita the dog who doesnt even require a leash)
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Old January 26th, 2011, 12:06 PM
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I had a "trainer" tell me that clicker training "teaches dogs to bite childrens hands" and right after that gem her dogs proceeded to drag her away despite wearing prong collars...

I wont be visiting that link. I dont want to yell at my computer monitor today...
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Old January 26th, 2011, 12:08 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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He cannot be serious.
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Old January 27th, 2011, 12:08 AM
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jassy3399 jassy3399 is offline
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well, this isn't MY experience, but my parents adopted a deaf dalmation (just turned 10 this year and still going strong!) when he was 5 months old. this guy had been passed from foster home to foster home since he was weened, and had no training beyond potty training, and no socialization. my folks enrolled in an obedience class with a woman who said that she had experience with deaf dogs. well, most of her methods were fairly normal, and they did get at least a good groundwork laid with him, but this woman insisted that everyone pin their dogs every training session to reassert dominance. Every training session, no matter what, they were all supposed to put their pups on their backs and hold them until they submitted. both my parents considered that to be kind of bullying, so as soon as they'd muddled through the first steps of training, they withdrew from the class.
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Old January 27th, 2011, 08:39 AM
Longblades Longblades is offline
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I looked at the first video in the link the OP provided and the first thing that struck me is that the camera focused on the owner and you can hardly see the dog at all. I found it surprising that a video purporting to show the dog and canine mind connection basically ignored the dog.

I didn't watch all of that video or explore any others but what I did see appeared to be nothing more than the old method of popping the leash to keep the dog in heel. Only no rewarding with treats and the words used were not "getting her attention" but were "connecting with her mind." I noticed the owner was slow to verbally praise and the teacher did keep reminding him to do so. It did appear that the dog and owner should have done some work in a less distracting location before they started their leash work outside. And I noticed the collar was properly fitted just behind the ears.

So, from the limited amount I saw, he was not so bad. I certainly believe what the OP says about puppies peeing though and that is nuts. Probably why I did not watch more.
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Old January 29th, 2011, 10:18 PM
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There is a training company here in Colorado who requires that you shock your puppy/dog 100x/day!!!!! Can you imagine anyone thinking that was okay to do?
We had a client come to us after using them and she said the poor dog had liquid stools ever time he saw the collar!
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Old January 30th, 2011, 09:01 AM
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My sister was taking her big dog to a trainer to work on his aggression issues and one day she was talking about her smaller pug/boston terrier mix(Peanut). She mentioned that it takes Peanut a long time to find a spot to poop (she can walk around for quite awhile before she finds "the spot").

His solution to this problem (which wasn't a problem anyways)?

TO STICK A MATCH UP THE DOGS BUM!!!!

He said it worked for his dog! Told her that the sulfur from the tip of the match will essentially burn the dogs a$$ which makes him want to push it out and the poop will come out as well.

Just choose the spot that you want the dog to poop and stick a match up their bum!
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Old January 30th, 2011, 10:01 AM
Mirela Mirela is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolynInPEI View Post
My sister was taking her big dog to a trainer to work on his aggression issues and one day she was talking about her smaller pug/boston terrier mix(Peanut). She mentioned that it takes Peanut a long time to find a spot to poop (she can walk around for quite awhile before she finds "the spot").

His solution to this problem (which wasn't a problem anyways)?

TO STICK A MATCH UP THE DOGS BUM!!!!

He said it worked for his dog! Told her that the sulfur from the tip of the match will essentially burn the dogs a$$ which makes him want to push it out and the poop will come out as well.

Just choose the spot that you want the dog to poop and stick a match up their bum!
Hmmm, useful idea, but I'm not sure this method will work. I would be tempted to try it on the "trainer" first. ...and lit the match...you know, just to speed things up a bit more...
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Old January 30th, 2011, 10:02 AM
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I once told a client about that method (jokingly) because her dog hadn't soiled in days. Upon hearing that "remedy" the dog went to the grass and did his business as of to say "your not doing that to me!".
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Old January 30th, 2011, 10:13 AM
Longblades Longblades is offline
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This is an old, old trick people have used for years to get their dog to poop before entering a show ring. It's so old I think it stems from the days when smoking was much more accepted and it even predates lighters because then folks lit their cigarettes with matches, hence had them with them and handy for this purpose. I always thought they used the stick end though, not the burning end. Any small stick would do, it's just that folks tended to have matches handy. Much as I have heard of this trick, I would never do it and I don't know anyone who would.
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Old February 19th, 2011, 01:01 PM
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@ Patty, This guy, like a lot of trainers, seems to have the right idea to behavioral training with none of the information needed to pull it off.

I can see how you have to "Connect" with the dog on a psychological level, which is no different then bonding with your dog, in the sense that you can see what works with him in order to influence him. If he works well with praise then treats, just by knowing that you have connected with your dog on a psychological level because you understand his mindframe at that exact moment when he misbehaves and thus can correct it properly.

When he says "Influence the dogs mind to take power away from the dog" It seems more like words that will entice and captivate in order to draw crowds in, so that he can show people that all you need to do is keep dominance over the dog.

Now the whole "Walking the dog on a short leash in a circle" actually does accomplish something. After a dog goes on leash and is attached to a person, when walked in a circle it is being forced against it's will to do what the human wants, and thus, if it doesn't want to be stuck being tugged time and time again, it must follow the human and become submissive instead of dominant.

It works better when people do quick bursts of speed, and then slow down, as well as doing small obstacle courses around street lamps, parking meters, trees, anything you can weave in and out of while having your dog attached to your waist (So that your arms don't allow any buffering of your body movements). That way if the dog goes his own way and doesn't watch you, he gets stuck on the opposite side of a post/tree/etc and has to find his own way back, which doesn't involve going forward and instead, involves tracing the leash back and thus will stimulate his mind, allow him to become submissive, and allow you to bring about more dominance all in one.

It's an effective training regiment used at the beginning of dog walking to train them on leash, is very successful, but unfortunately doesn't work well unless you incorporate other training regiments in with it.

If anyone has any questions about the information I have posted, feel free to message me.
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Old February 19th, 2011, 04:23 PM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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Hmmm sounds like Brad Pattison's methods. I don't buy into to the whole domination/submissive dog thing.
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Old February 19th, 2011, 05:57 PM
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And that's fine, you don't have to use that as a technique if you don't want to, but depending on what degree you want your dog trained, you can either work with what it knows, and bring yourself down to the dogs level to allow it to comprehend more effectively, or you can bend the dog around to your mindframe, which does take a lot longer, but can be accomplished.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 05:20 PM
GalaxiesKuklos GalaxiesKuklos is offline
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The mere fact that he uses the term "Dog psychology" tells me he doesn't know what he's talking about. This is simply a re-packaging of aversive/compulsion based jerk-training like that used by Millan, Pattison, and Sullivan. And you are right PattyMac, the dominance spiel used by these guys is so outdated, they should be embarrassed to even mention it.

As for the strangest... well many not the strangest but the least helpful is Pattison's hit to the face.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 10:47 PM
Etown_Chick Etown_Chick is offline
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pattymac,
I won't vouch for everything Pattison says, but I do use some of his methods and find them effective with Scruffy. Then again, Scruffy challenges me nearly every waking moment. Most dogs don't do that.

What baffles me is, who is telling people to pin their dogs every time the dog doesn't listen, or doesn't do exactly what they say at that exact minute? Our dog park is somedays filled with people pinning their dogs every five seconds. Some of these people are going to get bit, badly. I've also noticed it tends to be the part-timers doing this, not those of us who are at the park every day.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 11:22 PM
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My friend was told to spit in her dogs food before serving him dinner to assert her role as the alpha.

So, I tried spitting on my cat to see if that would put it in his place when he was misbehaving badly one afternoon, and he pretty much looked at me like WTF did you just do? Needless to say it did not work one bit.

Just one of my many brilliant ideas...
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Old February 24th, 2011, 12:06 AM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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The only thing of Brad's that I kind of agree with is tethering. Not the way he does it though, but it's great if you want to have your hands free while walking. I don't like the way he makes it sound like he invented it though.

I've heard of the spit in the food thing too, that's just gross. How is the dog supposed to know...they eat usually too fast to notice anyway!

Spitting ON your cat?!!?! Hahahah that's too funny..sorry! I can imagine the look you got! I'd likely get smacked for it!
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