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  #451  
Old February 11th, 2011, 05:21 PM
Gale911 Gale911 is offline
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So sorry

My little girl cat passed away last week from renal failure, I gave her sub Q fuilds and Azadyl ( a probiotic baceteria ). She was diagnosed in October with ealy stage but by Christmas she was pretty bad.
Try to keep your cat eating and drinking fluids, these are the most important things other than love.
Good luck
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  #452  
Old February 12th, 2011, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gale911 View Post
My little girl cat passed away last week from renal failure, I gave her sub Q fuilds and Azadyl ( a probiotic baceteria ). She was diagnosed in October with ealy stage but by Christmas she was pretty bad.
Try to keep your cat eating and drinking fluids, these are the most important things other than love.
Good luck
Hi Gale sorry to hear about your girl

I'm not sure if you are responding to me or PMFan, if this was directed at me (as I know sometimes people only read the first post ) I originally started this thread a little over 3 years ago when my girl was diagnosed & she had 3 good quality years with CRF before unrelated Lymphoma took her, this thread has kept going to help others dealing with feline renal failure. Any and all tips and good wishes for others are always welcome as something you tried may help someone else.
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  #453  
Old June 19th, 2011, 09:18 AM
Rumor Rumor is offline
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canned cat food

Recently, after a series of blood tests, my vet said that my 16 1/2 year old girl may be starting crf. She wants to do more blood tests next month, but in the meantime, I want to switch her catfood. For the past year, I have been feeding her EVO dry, which is obviously way too high in phosphorous. I would like to switch her to a canned food. I prefer to remain in the better quality, grain-free range of catfood, if possible. The problem is I am in Japan on a military base, so we are severely limited in catfood choices. I had been ordering the EVO through Amazon after deciding the stuff I was getting off the shelf here just wasn't healthy for my kitties.

I have spent many late nights reading websites on CRF and I am having a hard time making sense of the catfood info. I had pretty much determined that the EVO 95% Beef and 95% Venison might be the way to go, but all the info on here is several years old. Does anyone know if they still fall into a low phosphorous range? I have looked through the charts of cat food, canned and dry, but they are a bit outdated (2005, 2008). Anything more recent that I am not finding?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
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  #454  
Old June 19th, 2011, 09:28 AM
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mikischo mikischo is offline
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The last post on the following recent thread gives a number of choices as well as some links for high quality canned foods low in phosphorus:

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=77119

Definitely try to switch her over to entirely canned food. It is far better than dry for all cats and particularly for cats with CRF.
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  #455  
Old June 19th, 2011, 05:42 PM
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Hi Rumor, welcome to the forum, would love to see pics of your girl if you have some you'd like to share

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumor View Post
I have spent many late nights reading websites on CRF and I am having a hard time making sense of the catfood info. I had pretty much determined that the EVO 95% Beef and 95% Venison might be the way to go, but all the info on here is several years old. Does anyone know if they still fall into a low phosphorous range? I have looked through the charts of cat food, canned and dry, but they are a bit outdated (2005, 2008). Anything more recent that I am not finding?
The EVO 95% Beef is okay, after conversions works out to 1.24% dry matter phosphorus, you want to stay below 1.25% dm.

The EVO 95% Venison is far too high, after conversion works out to 2.05% dry matter phosphorus

The Evo 95% Chicken & Turkey is great, after after conversion works out to 0.88% dry matter phosphorus

As mentioned by mikischo above there are more listed in that post, I'll repost them here too:

Some good quality low phos canned food choices for you:

By Nature Organics Turkey & Turkey Liver, Chicken & Chicken Liver, Turkey & Chicken, Chicken & Mackerel, Beef & Beef Liver

Innova Flex Beef & Barley Stew
Evo 95% Chicken & Turkey

Felidae Platinum
Felidae Cat & Kitten
Felidae Grain Free

Merricks Before Grain 96% Beef
Merricks Before Grain 96% Turkey

Merricks Cowboy Cookout
Merricks Thanksgiving Day Dinner

Halo Spots Stew Wholesome Chicken
Halo Spots Stew Wholesome Turkey

Wellness Turkey, Chicken, Beef & Chicken, Beef & Salmon, Kitten, Wellness Core Chicken Turkey & Chicken Liver

Holistic Select Turkey & Barley
Holistic Select Duck & Chicken

This is a currently updated list 2010-2011 the foods are listed in order of lowest amount of dry matter phosphorus, it's up to you to decide what ingredients are acceptable, the manufactures websites are also listed to help in that regard. Tanya's Feline CRF US Canned Food Data Tables
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  #456  
Old June 27th, 2011, 12:39 AM
Rumor Rumor is offline
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Thanks so much for the quick and informative reply!

Armed with the new information, and after much searching, I found that Petco.com would ship the Organix canned catfood to me (it's sooo hard to get stuff like catfood shipped to an APO...) I also ordered some dry Now! that I will carry back after a Stateside trip.

Right now, I have switched my kitty to Hill's Mature Adult Active Longevity dry and canned food (I'm shocked they sell it on base!) but the ingredients are garbage, and I can't wait to get her back on something more healthy.

Now I just have to learn the fine balance between good, low phosphorous catfood and maintaining her weight. She has struggled with being overweight most of her life, (or is it *I* have struggled with it? She's perfectly happy trying to eat whatever she can and staying fat!)

Thanks again! I'll post some pics of the Gollum over in the Pet Photos.
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  #457  
Old June 27th, 2011, 12:52 AM
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As long as Gollum continues to eat and doesn't start rapidly losing weight it's all good. A little extra weight is a good thing for a kidney cat as they often lose weight and it then becomes quite hard to gain it back to get them back to a healthy weight.

If you can get her on mostly canned food with little to no dry food that would be even better for her kidneys as that will provide some extra moisture and not dehydrate her like the dry food will.
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  #458  
Old July 8th, 2011, 04:22 PM
Kattaclysm Kattaclysm is offline
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Lightbulb Crf

I must admit I wept a little when I saw this website. My best friend Greymalkin was diagnosed with CRF 2 months ago and I'm in the thick of things testing different foods to see what he will and will not eat. I've sat up with him at night pleading that he would atleast finish a 1/2 a mini can of K/d... this whole thing is heroing.

That said, Grey is taking it like a champ, he's perfectly happy. As far as he is concerned mommy is just a nut job. He also likes all the extra attention.

On the talk about water intake I found a great article on making flavored waters :
" While you are working toward getting your cat to eat canned food, you can increase their water intake by using flavored waters such as tuna water, beef or chicken broth, clam juice, lactose-free cat milk, etc.You can make you own tuna water by adding 3 cups of water to a can of tuna. Mash it up and let it sit for ~15 minutes then pour the water into covered (to help maintain freshness) ice cube trays. 3 cups of water will fill two 16-cube trays. The ice cube trays can be used for other flavored liquids as well."

I've given him the lactose-free catsip to boost his caloric intake and he loves it but the tuna slurry is in the freezer now so I can try it. It sounds disgusting but if it works

Just thought I'd pass that on!

Off to go try a new food now (Fussie Kitty)
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  #459  
Old July 9th, 2011, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kattaclysm View Post
I must admit I wept a little when I saw this website. My best friend Greymalkin was diagnosed with CRF 2 months ago and I'm in the thick of things testing different foods to see what he will and will not eat.
Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about the diagnosis, but you've found the right place for support & info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kattaclysm View Post
I've sat up with him at night pleading that he would atleast finish a 1/2 a mini can of K/d... this whole thing is heroing.
Ah clever kitty he knows that k/d isn't very tasty Just 4 posts up you will find a short list of lower phosphorus foods to try and at the end of that post there is a link to a table listing a whole lotta foods in order of phos content.

If you have any questions or tips feel free to post them
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  #460  
Old July 12th, 2011, 04:03 PM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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help with food!

Hello,

Wow, what a great forum!!

Here's my dilemna. I have 4 cats.

one kidney kitty - 14 years old, 6lbs, very picky and mind of her own - eats science diet seafood

one fat kitty - needs hypoallergic food due to pancreatis, 9 years - eats the k/d brand but hypoallergic (not sure the letters?) kibble, she will not eat cans

one kitty with no teeth - well had them pulled in different stages due to rare gum disease, 7 years - eats natural balance green pea and duck cans (mainly becuase she was on hypoallergic with her gum disease but now that we've pulled the teeth its not as much an issue)

one kitty with no problems - 3 years, eats chicken soup kibble

so, they all have seperate foods, all get fed in seperate bedrooms. Its a wee bit high maintence, especially for when we go away and we have "helpers"

So, kidney cat is my main concern. She gets fed 3 times a day (we found the extra feeding before bed was useful to maintain the 6lbs), and takes 0.45 calitrol once a day. She only likes science diet seafood (looks like its not bad in pho at 0.65) and the vet said that was ok given how picky she is. Now, she only likes it warmed up, with a few k/d kibbles on top (and we must put it in a pile after she eats a bit as she doesnt' like putting her nose in the bowl!). Yes, picky. Well, she goes through spurts every other week of "I dont want to eat, but I will puke instead". So i'm wondering if I should change her food to something better for her. It seems the science diet is better than the wellness for the pho rating, but i realize it's more crap food. I have bought some wellness turkey to see if she'll eat it.

Now, my question is, for the other 3, is there any kidney failure food that is hypoallergic? That way I can leave some kibbles out and not worry about the kidney cat having an issue if she actually decides she wants a few pieces? The other issue is NO Teeth kitty, as of course, she has no teeth (not that any of them actually chew their food - but she currently is on soft). So i'm not sure if there is a solution that is less hetic at feeding time for us, given all the cats seem to have one issue or another. Then getting them all to like the same food is another story.

Thoughts? Crazy cat lady? I think so.
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  #461  
Old July 13th, 2011, 02:56 AM
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Hi mandyedwards, welcome to the forum

Let's see if we can't get them all on canned to start the canned food can be left out even after it dries & gets a bit crusty - some cats actually like it like that, adding a bit of water to it will soften it back up again. I would leave it for no more than about 8hrs out though, depending on how hot it is.

Have you considered a raw diet?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
one kidney kitty - 14 years old, 6lbs, very picky and mind of her own - eats science diet seafood

If she won't eat the Wellness Turkey, there is also the Beef & Salmon w/good numbers, & a fishy content. Also have a look at Wellness Healthy Indulgence Pouches. Their Chicken, Duck & Shrimp recipe, and the Chicken, Crab & Herring recipe both have good phos numbers and may appeal to the fish lover. Stay away from the Tuna though! While the phos number is good, tuna is more addicting than other fish it seems & constant feeding can cause a vit imbalance.

one fat kitty - needs hypoallergic food due to pancreatis, 9 years - eats the k/d brand but hypoallergic (not sure the letters?) kibble, she will not eat cans

Much as I don't like the prescription foods, have you tried her on the canned z/d (I'm guessing she's on this one the low allergen)?

Were you able to determine what exactly she reacts against? a specific/all protein, grain, anything over a certain fat content, etc?


one kitty with no teeth - well had them pulled in different stages due to rare gum disease, 7 years - eats natural balance green pea and duck cans (mainly becuase she was on hypoallergic with her gum disease but now that we've pulled the teeth its not as much an issue)

Will she eat other canned foods? The NB green pea & duck canned is high in phos & while it may not be an issue w/this cat and if the CRF cat has a couple of nibbles it wouldn't be an issue, you wouldn't want that available to the kidney cat all the time.

one kitty with no problems - 3 years, eats chicken soup kibble
Will s/he eat canned? Can you switch her/him to canned something/anything & off the dry as a main food source? That would at least eliminate 1 of the different foods being bought

Even getting the kidney cat, the no teeth cat & the healthy cat all eating the same brand of exclusively canned will go along way to helping ease the feeding circus & then you can work on slowly switching the pancreas kitty to canned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
so, they all have seperate foods, all get fed in seperate bedrooms. Its a wee bit high maintence, especially for when we go away and we have "helpers"

So, kidney cat is my main concern. She gets fed 3 times a day (we found the extra feeding before bed was useful to maintain the 6lbs), and takes 0.45 calitrol once a day. She only likes science diet seafood (looks like its not bad in pho at 0.65) and the vet said that was ok given how picky she is. Now, she only likes it warmed up, with a few k/d kibbles on top (and we must put it in a pile after she eats a bit as she doesnt' like putting her nose in the bowl!). Yes, picky. Well, she goes through spurts every other week of "I dont want to eat, but I will puke instead". So i'm wondering if I should change her food to something better for her. It seems the science diet is better than the wellness for the pho rating, but i realize it's more crap food. I have bought some wellness turkey to see if she'll eat it.

Now, my question is, for the other 3, is there any kidney failure food that is hypoallergic? That way I can leave some kibbles out and not worry about the kidney cat having an issue if she actually decides she wants a few pieces? The other issue is NO Teeth kitty, as of course, she has no teeth (not that any of them actually chew their food - but she currently is on soft). So i'm not sure if there is a solution that is less hetic at feeding time for us, given all the cats seem to have one issue or another. Then getting them all to like the same food is another story.
No kidney specific hypoallergic diet, however the Hills z/d is low phos. Ideally you would want to eliminate all dry food as canned (or better yet raw) is much healthier for them all.

This CRF specific site has some tips for persuading your cat to eat (also good to try when starting a new food) http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm

This site has some tips for transitioning off dry food http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Tips%20f...%201-14-11.pdf
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  #462  
Old July 13th, 2011, 09:46 AM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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Thanks so much for the response!!

To be honest, I was hoping to switch all to kibble (other than kidney kitty) just for ease of leaving the food out. We tend to go away for hte weekend here and there and currently with our feeding schedule, we have to have 2 cats stay with my mom and 2 with my dad (stressful for them). Mainly because you can't leave soft food out for them. What are hte benefits to the canned? I know the water content, but is there others? Is there any other solution for going away if they are all on canned? Another consideration for us is the cost of course. Hard to hide the fact of how many cans we go through with all 4 being on canned. Do any of these come in big cans?

We are not sure what fat kitty is allergic to, she just stopped eating bout 5 months ago (odd for her, she's fat!) and so we took her in. They did xrays, ultrasounds etc to rule everything else out and then diagnosed pancreatis and suggested hypoallergic food. We bought her some NB green pea and duck kibble and she loved that last night. Not sure if this was the right move. She doesn't like canned but I certianly could try some of the techniques to persaude her more. she did try the z/d canned and wanted nothing to do with it. but this was also during when she was not feelign well, so that might have something to do with it. it is hte z/d kibble she is on right now (other than us trying the nb duck/green pea last night kibble)

No teeth kitty will eat anything, she's not picky. So she's not an issue. She was on the NB green pea (its actually venison, I checked last night) just because of her gums but now that her teeth are out the vet said she can eat anything. she loves canned.

Kidney kitty tryed a bit of the wellness turkey and so far loves it. She's bad for loving a new food for a few feedings though and then deciding she's done with it. so we'll see how that goes. being turkey i'm sckeptical. she always seems good on teh sd seafood, but its because she consistantly will eat at least a quarter of a can at a time. until she goes through a not eating phase, which shes in. Just a note but we put a bit of the wellness turkey on top of her sd seafood this morning and she vomited it up. Not sure if it was the wellness being different on her belly or if it was jsut becuase she's vomited a few times this week. hopefully she's working on furball and it's unrelated.

As a side note, bought a cat it water fountain last night. fat kitty loves it and decided she needed to guard it and sleep by it last night. healthy kitty thought it was atoy and there for her amusement. kidney kitty seemed not interested in it (other than the noise was apparently disturbing her). The plug seemed to get quite hot after a few hours of having it on. i'm hoping its not an issue to leave it runnign as that was kinda the point of hte thing.
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  #463  
Old July 14th, 2011, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

Dry Food vs Canned Food. Which is really better?

A carnivorous diet is comprised of primarily protein and fat from animal tissue. They have teeth designed to tear flesh and a short and simple gastrointestinal tract, one suited for digestion and absorption of a concentrated, highly digestible diet. Dry foods typically contain 35-40% carbohydrate. Carbohydrates are nearly absent in the cat's natural diet. The cat obtains small amounts of carbohydrate through the stomach and intestines of her prey. Commercial dry foods, however, may contain as much as 45% - 50% carbohydrates. Since the cat metabolizes primarily fat and protein for energy, most of the excess carbohydrate is stored in the body as glycogen and fat. The primary adverse effect of excess carbohydrate is obesity. The effects of obesity are heart disease because of the increased workload on the heart; orthopedic problems are increased because of increased physical stress on the frame, leading to arthritis and early debilitation; diabetes mellitus, a condition in which the pancreas doesn't produce the amount of insulin that it should to help metabolize blood sugar, is one of the most common problems in obese cats; several liver disorders occur more frequently in overweight cats. Surprisingly, the deadliest one, hepatic lipidosis, happens when the cat stops eating. Changes in the operation of the liver cause fat to be deposited there, which eventually can shut down the liver altogether.

Not all protein sources are of equal value to the carnivore, and the quantity of protein in a commercial dry cat food often says nothing about its quality. Before domestication, cats hunted their prey and consumed a diet very high in meat protein, low to moderate in fat, and very low in carbohydrates. This diet provided both the proper quantity and quality of protein for the carnivore's unique digestive system.
.... Thus, a carnivore's optimum diet must be concentrated, highly digestible, and low in residue because its body is designed to digest primarily protein. If an excess of carbohydrates is included in the diet, much of what the carnivore eats is only partially digested by the time it reaches the large intestine for fecal formation, overloading the digestive and excretory systems. ...

Protein digestibility in pet foods is about 80 percent for dry foods, 85 percent for semimoist and canned foods containing large amounts of cereal grains, and 90 percent for canned diets with meat as the primary protein source. Digestibility is influenced both by the source of the protein and by how it is processed. Protein in cat foods comes from both animal and plant sources. Animal protein is generally more expensive and often of higher quality than plant protein. The composition of canned foods allows the use of protein and fat sources of higher biological value than can be used in dry food.

The cat's natural diet, live prey, contains between 65%-75% water. The cat, having evolved on the plains of Africa, has adapted to obtain her water requirements almost entirely on the moisture content in her prey. Cats can live for long periods without drinking water when receiving food containing 67-73% water but become dehydrated when the water content of the food is 63% or less. The water content of the commercial foods commonly fed to cats varies from 8% in dry foods to over 75% in canned foods; thus the amount of drinking water required is affected substantially by the water content of the food. {All dry-fed-only cats become chronically dehydrated because they cannot drink enough water for their bodies to restore what they loose, re-hydrate & maintain it adequately}

In addition to canned food ensuring adequate hydration, a high water turnover helps eliminate crystallogenic substances before they grow to sufficient size to interfere with normal urinary function. This is a very important consideration for male cats. Cats that cannot urinate for more than 24 hours due to urinary tract obstruction can die from acute renal failure and/or severe damage to the urinary bladder. In addition to the removal of crystals, benefits of increased water intake include dilution of any noxious substances in urine, and more frequent urination to decrease bladder contact time with urine that may reduce the risks of urinary tract disease. For that reason, canned diets are usually prescribed as the first-line therapy for feline lower urinary tract disease.

The alkalizing nature of carbohydrate-laden dry food requires more than twice to three times the amount of acidification than does canned food increasing the risk of acidosis and kidney damage proportionally.

Acidification of the urine is not without potential toxicity. Dl-methionine causes hemolytic anemia, met hemoglobinemia, and Heinz body formation in cats. Dl-methionine is commonly used in dry foods as a urinary acidifier. Additional concerns about chronic acidification are its potentially detrimental effects on renal function and bone development.

Dry cat food is generally unpalatable to cats because of its dry nature. Palatability of dry cat foods is enhanced by animal fats, protein hydrolysates, meat extracts, acid, and the amino acids alanine, histidine, proline, and lysine. The preference for protein breakdown products and acidity may explain the use of "digest" as an ingredient in nearly all dry foods. Digest is "a microbiologically stable material resulting from digesting animal tissues. . . ." It is produced by enzymatic hydrolysis of animal tissues and by-products, which yield a viscous solution of amino acids, peptides, and fatty acids. Digest also contains significant quantities of phosphoric acid, which is added to stop the enzymatic degradation process and to preserve the product. Digest is sprayed onto the outside of cat foods at 4 to 10 percent of the final finished product or is incorporated directly into the food. Digest can enhance the palatability of foods by as much as two- to threefold over the uncoated product. Once incorporated into cat food, the phosphoric acid increases the amount of acid ingested by the cat. Because of this manufacturing practice, urine acidifiers should not be given to cats fed commercial cat foods, however, nearly all dry foods contain urine acidifiers, most commonly, dl-methionine. Chronic, overacidification leads to metabolic acidosis, demineralization of bone, calcium oxalate crystal formation and possibly renal damage. This may be a contributing factor in increase of incidence of calcium oxalate urolithiasis and high prevelence of chronic renal failure in middleaged cats.

......most dry pet foods are hard but brittle so that the kibble shatters without much resistance and so there is little or no abrasive effect from chewing. {Thereby giving no "teeth cleaning" benefit. Besides the cats teeth are a scissor bite not designed for a lot of chewing and with the lower jaw in a straight hinge there is no side to side chewing movement}
Very simply put it's not natural for cats (& dogs) to eat dry food, it was designed for our convenience not their health.

More reading here:
http://feline-nutrition.org/health/s...rs-of-dry-food
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/w...canned-food-2/
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/d...ean-the-teeth/
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/t...gram-for-cats/
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/feline-obesity/
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/k...in-older-cats/

Many brands Wellness, Felidae, Holistic Select etc do come in a 12-13oz size can, which after opening can be refrigerated and yes you can even freeze canned food into portion sizes. Some stores offer discounts for buying by the case as well.

Instead of 2 cats going here & 2 cats going there, can you have someone come to your house for the weekend while you are away? Less stress all around.

Do you have the kidney cats' food dishes elevated 2-6 inches off the ground while they are eating? This is good to keep the excess stomach acid that tends to happen w/kidney issues in the stomach & out of the throat reducing nausea & vomiting as a result.

If the fountain is a good quality brand (ie PetMate etc) it is designed to be on all the time & there should be only mild heating of the plug. I've not purchased Hagen products before, however they have had this question asked in their site FAQ http://faq.hagencrm.com/details.asp?kbfaqid=24423&usa seems they are aware and are assuring their customers this is normal. You can always contact the company for more info.

Sometimes it takes a while for the cats to get used to the sound, running water and the different-ness of the fountains. It took my cat a few days before she was comfortable w/the PetMate fountain I bought & it was silent when the water full.
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  #464  
Old July 14th, 2011, 10:05 AM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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wow. that's alot of information! Thanks for that.

we will definately look into finding a canned food that they'll eat. fat cat does nto like canned food - perhaps that is why she is fat. and we've struggled with that. She only gets the prescribed amount of food, supervised, twice a day. no access to any other food. it has been that way for years (but the food has changed). and we have no idea why she is overweight. none of the other cats are overweight. now i'm wondering if it is because she wont eat canned. the only other cat on kibble is the 3 yr old who is terribly active given her age. interesting. and i'm not sure what food to put her on (canned) since her pancreatis - which addmittly, they dont know what caused it, just hta she was in alot of pain, not eating at all and had every test under hte sun done on her to find nothing. so they said when they find nothing then pancreatis is diagnosed. So i have no clue what she shouldn't eat. I'd love it if I could feed the the same as the others (wellness turkey? or something kidney cat can eat). thoughts on that?

to answer your other questions, we have started elevating kidney cats food dish - did this after i read that in this forum. she ate very well for her before bed snack of wellness turkey. not so great this morning but might have been full from last night. still doesn't want anything to do with the fountain. but on the plus side, fat cat loves the fountain and since she's on kibble it's probably a really good thing.

no one can come into our house unfortuatley. boht my parents are about 40 mins away from us (in opposite directions) so it's a bit much to ask for them to stop by twice a day. we are in a new neighbour hood so we dont have any neighbors yet. this would be our perfect solution though. is there any automatic timer dishes for soft food? it'd be hard cause i need to feed 4 cats with it (do i get 4 feeders?) but might be worth a shot.

ultimately, i just wnat the process to be hopefully easier (switching all to canned is not a big inconvenice and one i'm willing to deal with anyway) but i'd like to hopefully have them not on 4 different foods. that's the hard part right now.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 10:35 AM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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Sorry, one more thing. Any thoughts on the SD seafood that the CRF kitty was on? It's lower in pho and protein (0.65 pho, 35.10 protein, 0.4 sodium) so i'm wondering if it's a better choice than the wellness? Or is the wellness better due to the better ingredients?


Also bought a can of the Evo Chicken and Turkey - comparison numbers with the wellness turkey are:

evo - 0.88 pho, 40.68 protein, 0.46 sodium
Wellness - 1.05 pho, 46.33 protein, 0.30 sodium

So in comparision, maybe kidney kitty should be on the evo (assuming she likes it, as I haven't given it to her yet). but are the increased sodium numbers more of a concern than the decrease in pho and protein (although the SD seafood she's been on has 0.40 sodium)? If she liked both equally which should I choose?

Would one be better for fat/hypoallegic kitty than the other (or both a risk due to similar ingredients)? Or am I stuck feeding her the one different food from the other 3?

Thanks for all your help.

Last edited by mandyedwards; July 14th, 2011 at 12:13 PM.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 01:23 AM
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i'm not sure what food to put her on (canned) since her pancreatis - which addmittly, they dont know what caused it, just hta she was in alot of pain, not eating at all and had every test under hte sun done on her to find nothing. so they said when they find nothing then pancreatis is diagnosed. So i have no clue what she shouldn't eat. I'd love it if I could feed the the same as the others (wellness turkey? or something kidney cat can eat). thoughts on that?
I think it's highly likely it's the dry food that has caused or at least contributed to the weight issue. Probably the easiest canned food to try to transition her with would be either the z/d ~ don't buy a full case to start though maybe just a can or two ~ or the NB that no teeth kitty is on due to the limited ingredients, and you currently have it on hand The NB is still too high for kidney cat though unless the vet puts her on a phos binder ~ depending on the bloodwork probably not necessary at this point as phos is still an essential nutrient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
to answer your other questions, we have started elevating kidney cats food dish - did this after i read that in this forum. she ate very well for her before bed snack of wellness turkey. not so great this morning but might have been full from last night. still doesn't want anything to do with the fountain. but on the plus side, fat cat loves the fountain and since she's on kibble it's probably a really good thing.
The higher quality foods have less fillers so they sometimes eat a bit less than the other food, as long as she is maintaining weight/activity level, and is within the foods' recommendations.

Some cats also prefer a variety of brands/flavours, so this may be an option for you saving a little money in the long term if you rotate through the low phos holistic foods and mixing in some low phos Science Diet or Fancy Feast etc. Ideally a variety is better so if/when a cat decides they won't eat X-food anymore, you know they already like/will eat Y-food.

Rotating flavours/brands may help keep the interest of the currently-kibble-only kitty too.

She may still get there with the fountain, especially when she sees the others into it all the time, cats are great copiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
no one can come into our house unfortuatley. boht my parents are about 40 mins away from us (in opposite directions) so it's a bit much to ask for them to stop by twice a day. we are in a new neighbour hood so we dont have any neighbors yet. this would be our perfect solution though. is there any automatic timer dishes for soft food? it'd be hard cause i need to feed 4 cats with it (do i get 4 feeders?) but might be worth a shot.
There are some auto feeders with a cooler that you can use canned in, I've not heard from anyone that has actually used them, so I'm not sure how fresh the food stays or how the cats react etc. Plus there's no guarantee each cat is eating their own portion & not eating another cats unless they were all separated for the entire time.

Another option is once you find a local vet, asking a receptionist/tech that you are comfortable with to stop in check on, feed etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
ultimately, i just wnat the process to be hopefully easier (switching all to canned is not a big inconvenice and one i'm willing to deal with anyway) but i'd like to hopefully have them not on 4 different foods. that's the hard part right now.
Or if they will all rotate through the same variety at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Sorry, one more thing. Any thoughts on the SD seafood that the CRF kitty was on? It's lower in pho and protein (0.65 pho, 35.10 protein, 0.4 sodium) so i'm wondering if it's a better choice than the wellness? Or is the wellness better due to the better ingredients?
Personally my I would stay away from fish flavours unless there is at least 1 other named meat source preferably higher in the ingredient list than the named fish. I also personally am not a fan of SD, and I feel the ingredients in Wellness are better.

However, (a) you know kidney cat will eat it so that's a plus ~ hopefully not but there may come a time where it will be a battle to get her to eat anything and at that point you feed whatever they will eat regardless of phos value or ingredients just so they will eat

There's a saying to do with CRF cats ~ The best food for a CRF cat - is a food they will eat. ~ The food with the lowest phos or the best ingredients will do no good to a cat who won't eat it.

Quote:
http://www.felinecrf.org/which_foods.htm#best_crf_food
In 11 guidelines for conservatively treating chronic kidney disease (2007) Polzin D, Veterinary Medicine December 2007, Dr Polzin makes the shocking observation that "in many or most dogs and cats with chronic kidney disease, death or euthanasia results directly or indirectly from starvation."
(b) it's got a great low phos value
(c) if you are comfortable with the food/ingredients, can afford to feed it, cat is doing well on it, etc then by all means continue or keep it in a rotation
(d) it's not my cat I'm just here to guide a little, I don't want to say you have to do this or you must feed that, there are no absolute answers what works for one may not for another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Also bought a can of the Evo Chicken and Turkey - comparison numbers with the wellness turkey are:

evo - 0.88 pho, 40.68 protein, 0.46 sodium
Wellness - 1.05 pho, 46.33 protein, 0.30 sodium

So in comparision, maybe kidney kitty should be on the evo (assuming she likes it, as I haven't given it to her yet). but are the increased sodium numbers more of a concern than the decrease in pho and protein (although the SD seafood she's been on has 0.40 sodium)? If she liked both equally which should I choose?
Just be sure you are always getting the Evo 95% C&T with the orange label not the regular C&T with the purple label.

Assuming that she (& the others) like both, rotate the flavors. Add the SD & anything else that's low phos they will eat to the rotation, that way you will even out both in nutrients and costs too.

The 0.30-0.46 sodium is not a huge difference and definately not the highest on the market, if kittys bloodwork indicates high or high end normal sodium then you would want to look a little closer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Would one be better for fat/hypoallegic kitty than the other (or both a risk due to similar ingredients)? Or am I stuck feeding her the one different food from the other 3?
I would see how she does with the attempt at the canned z/d or NB first, if she still can't tolerate those or refuses all transitioning attempts you may have to leave her on the dry.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 10:37 AM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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[
Quote:
QUOTE=growler~GateKeeper;1017828]I think it's highly likely it's the dry food that has caused or at least contributed to the weight issue. Probably the easiest canned food to try to transition her with would be either the z/d ~ don't buy a full case to start though maybe just a can or two ~ or the NB that no teeth kitty is on due to the limited ingredients, and you currently have it on hand The NB is still too high for kidney cat though unless the vet puts her on a phos binder ~ depending on the bloodwork probably not necessary at this point as phos is still an essential nutrient.
ok, NB for fat cat. WE have the venison one I believe. we also have a few z/d cans kicking around for when we tried her on it - I can give it try again. So I assume all the other foods we're considering (wellness, evo and SD) are a risk for fat cat and her allergies? I'm really hoping we can get her on the same food and her allergy was more related to the dry (she was on the weight control prescription when she got sick, I think it was O/M?) This is when she was switched to z/d, but admittly, she gained weight as well. Prior to this, she had lost a pound on the o/m (from 13 to 12lbs) and she was on it for a year and a half with no issues. I kinda think there was some other stresser that caused her illness. She was acting very skiddish with everything, hiding under the bed etc - which is not her regular behaviour. She is normally the outgoing one.

Quote:
The higher quality foods have less fillers so they sometimes eat a bit less than the other food, as long as she is maintaining weight/activity level, and is within the foods' recommendations.
She eats about 1/4 of a can, twice a day. Sometimes a bit mroe, sometimes less. I believe the recommendation is a can or a can and a half a day. She has never eaten this much (at least not for hte last 5 years).

Quote:
Some cats also prefer a variety of brands/flavours, so this may be an option for you saving a little money in the long term if you rotate through the low phos holistic foods and mixing in some low phos Science Diet or Fancy Feast etc. Ideally a variety is better so if/when a cat decides they won't eat X-food anymore, you know they already like/will eat Y-food.
Valid point. Oddly enough, she did not want the wellness turkey last night, or but ate the evo c&t. Then this morning wouldn't eat the evo at all (not even sniffed it) but i opened another new one, the wellness beef and chicken and she gobbled it up without breathing. She seems to want just different food - she'll be done with this beef one by tomorrow i'm sure. So perhaps I hsould just open a different food each time i'm done a can. Would I run the risk of tummy upset if I do this? Or now that she's tried them all I should be ok? I'm thinking i'll do the SD seafood, Evo C&T, Wellness Turkey, Wellness Beef in the rotation and just maybe every few cans switch it up (for all 3 kitties). Let me know your thoughts on that plan.
Quote:
Rotating flavours/brands may help keep the interest of the currently-kibble-only kitty too
.

Definately, just need to find a few she can have! lol. She really is not huge on the canned food, I gave her the rest of the evo C&T that kidney kitty didn't touch last night and she was all excited, had a few bites then decided she was done. For a cat that rarely eats half of the recommended food intake I really don't understand how she is overweight. I really think that something else is wrong with her but the vet assures me that its probably just her activity level. Granted she is older but she does play here and there but I just dont see the amout of food she's actually eating causing this much overweightness.

Quote:
She may still get there with the fountain, especially when she sees the others into it all the time, cats are great copiers
Score! Caught no teeth kitty drinking last night!



Quote:
There are some auto feeders with a cooler that you can use canned in, I've not heard from anyone that has actually used them, so I'm not sure how fresh the food stays or how the cats react etc. Plus there's no guarantee each cat is eating their own portion & not eating another cats unless they were all separated for the entire time.
True.

Quote:
Another option is once you find a local vet, asking a receptionist/tech that you are comfortable with to stop in check on, feed etc.
I think I might look into some of those "pet sitters" to see if I can find a good one. PRobalby is they need to give kidney kitty teh calitrol. I might just try to bring her to my mom's so I know she's eating getting her drugs then leave the other 3 with dry for the few days.

Quote:
Or if they will all rotate through the same variety at the same time

Quote:
Personally my I would stay away from fish flavours unless there is at least 1 other named meat source preferably higher in the ingredient list than the named fish. I also personally am not a fan of SD, and I feel the ingredients in Wellness are better.
Totally agree. If I had my way she wouldn't like this one. BUT, she does go back to this one most times (and when she's done a few feedings of any other new food she decides she's done with it). And its not bad on pho, or protein.

Quote:
However, (a) you know kidney cat will eat it so that's a plus ~ hopefully not but there may come a time where it will be a battle to get her to eat anything and at that point you feed whatever they will eat regardless of phos value or ingredients just so they will eat

There's a saying to do with CRF cats ~ The best food for a CRF cat - is a food they will eat. ~ The food with the lowest phos or the best ingredients will do no good to a cat who won't eat it.



(b) it's got a great low phos value
(c) if you are comfortable with the food/ingredients, can afford to feed it, cat is doing well on it, etc then by all means continue or keep it in a rotation
(d) it's not my cat I'm just here to guide a little, I don't want to say you have to do this or you must feed that, there are no absolute answers what works for one may not for another.
Still totally appreciate your thoughts!

Quote:
Just be sure you are always getting the Evo 95% C&T with the orange label not the regular C&T with the purple label.
I will check on this tonight. i've had so many new cans in my pantry that I can't be positive! I know it says 95% on it though!

Quote:
Assuming that she (& the others) like both, rotate the flavors. Add the SD & anything else that's low phos they will eat to the rotation, that way you will even out both in nutrients and costs too.

The 0.30-0.46 sodium is not a huge difference and definately not the highest on the market, if kittys bloodwork indicates high or high end normal sodium then you would want to look a little closer.
I got the vet to fax me kidney kitties results so I could figure out where she sits.

From April 2010
Urea 12.8
Creatine 343
Phos 1.96

Last bloodwork from April 2011
Urea 17.6
Creatie 298
Phos 1.17

So she has gone down in the year she's been on calsitrol (other than the urea - which admittly, i'm not sure what that means). So she is in Stage 3 according to the links you provided.

I would see how she does with the attempt at the canned z/d or NB first, if she still can't tolerate those or refuses all transitioning attempts you may have to leave her on the dry.[/QUOTE]

I will look over the ways to transition her. For someone that just refuses to eat alot of foods (including her dry z/d - she only ever eats about half the amount recommended) I really dont understand how she is so overweight.

Again, thanks for your help!!

Last edited by mandyedwards; July 15th, 2011 at 10:59 AM.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 01:20 AM
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growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
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Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
So I assume all the other foods we're considering (wellness, evo and SD) are a risk for fat cat and her allergies? I'm really hoping we can get her on the same food and her allergy was more related to the dry (she was on the weight control prescription when she got sick, I think it was O/M?) This is when she was switched to z/d, but admittly, she gained weight as well. Prior to this, she had lost a pound on the o/m (from 13 to 12lbs) and she was on it for a year and a half with no issues. I kinda think there was some other stresser that caused her illness. She was acting very skiddish with everything, hiding under the bed etc - which is not her regular behaviour. She is normally the outgoing one.
Hard to say considering we don't know what it was she reacted to. If she has no ill reaction to the C&T she ate or the z/d or NB, then expanding her choices slowly would be a start.

Sometimes tummy upset can be caused by a "bad" batch of food - close to expiry date or not properly cooked etc. As well as a new formula, slight change in ingredient volume, incorrect nutrient additive amounts, new source for ingredients etc. Then when the tests come back fine just the pancreas shows slightly inflammed, the cat is given hypoallergenic food & all is fine ~ it's then assumed the cat has pancreatitis & must be on this food for life. While this may be true in some cases, sometimes they just needed a little more time to adjust & overcome the inflammation.

Acting skiddish/hiding when not normal behaviour could've just been her displaying discomfort. Subtle personality changes can often indicate there is a medical issue or emotional stress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
She eats about 1/4 of a can, twice a day. Sometimes a bit mroe, sometimes less. I believe the recommendation is a can or a can and a half a day. She has never eaten this much (at least not for hte last 5 years).
If kidney cat is eating dryfood as well that needs to be considered into the daily intake amounts, as does activity/metabolism level. Some cats are just small eaters, my mum's cat doesn't eat very much & maintains a healthy weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Valid point. Oddly enough, she did not want the wellness turkey last night, or but ate the evo c&t. Then this morning wouldn't eat the evo at all (not even sniffed it) but i opened another new one, the wellness beef and chicken and she gobbled it up without breathing. She seems to want just different food - she'll be done with this beef one by tomorrow i'm sure. So perhaps I hsould just open a different food each time i'm done a can. Would I run the risk of tummy upset if I do this? Or now that she's tried them all I should be ok? I'm thinking i'll do the SD seafood, Evo C&T, Wellness Turkey, Wellness Beef in the rotation and just maybe every few cans switch it up (for all 3 kitties). Let me know your thoughts on that plan.
Cats usually have pretty strong stomachs and do well with flavour switching. When my kidney cat was on canned she would get a different flavour each day, I used to buy Wellness 12 oz by the case containing the 3 different flavours that she liked/low phos. Some members here do each meal different a flavour/brand, some each day something different.

Sounds good I know the Wellness & Evo come in the 12oz cans so that can save you a bit, canned food can be refrigerated up to 3-4 days or frozen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
For a cat that rarely eats half of the recommended food intake I really don't understand how she is overweight. I really think that something else is wrong with her but the vet assures me that its probably just her activity level. Granted she is older but she does play here and there but I just dont see the amout of food she's actually eating causing this much overweightness.
Calories and carbohydrates/sugars contribute a lot to that. It also can be difficult for a cat to safely lose excess weight while still on a dry food diet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Score! Caught no teeth kitty drinking last night!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
I think I might look into some of those "pet sitters" to see if I can find a good one. PRobalby is they need to give kidney kitty teh calitrol. I might just try to bring her to my mom's so I know she's eating getting her drugs then leave the other 3 with dry for the few days.
Some will give meds & some won't, if you can talk to people & get recommendations that's best. The vets office/pet food supply store might know a reliable pet sitter aside from their own staff of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Totally agree. If I had my way she wouldn't like this one. BUT, she does go back to this one most times (and when she's done a few feedings of any other new food she decides she's done with it). And its not bad on pho, or protein.
Since she's consistant with it, I'd keep it in the rotation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
I will check on this tonight. i've had so many new cans in my pantry that I can't be positive! I know it says 95% on it though!
Most likely the right one then, if not you can always feed it to the others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
I got the vet to fax me kidney kitties results so I could figure out where she sits.

From April 2010
Urea 12.8
Creatine 343
Phos 1.96

Last bloodwork from April 2011
Urea 17.6
Creatie 298
Phos 1.17

So she has gone down in the year she's been on calsitrol (other than the urea - which admittly, i'm not sure what that means). So she is in Stage 3 according to the links you provided.
Do you have the reference ranges for those numbers? Not all vets/labs have the same machines and or they are calibrated slightly different, so one needs the ref ranges to compare accurately.

Good drop on the Crea & Phos The Urea increase is not too bad considering that's a year between tests.

Urea is aka BUN Blood urea nitrogen, the measure of urea nitrogen in the blood on it's way to the kidneys for elimination in urine.

When protein is digested the resulting ammonia (a nitrogenous waste product) is absorbed into the gut, and then converted by the liver into urea. The urea nitrogen travels through the blood stream from the liver to the kidneys, where the kidneys filter it out of the blood & excreted it into the urine. That's where the strong ammonia smell of cat pee comes from, especially with a cat that has a high USG.

Urea levels are subject to fluctuations due to food, stress, urinary blockages and water intake - a dehydrated cat will have a higher urea level.

Was there a urinalysis done as well? Do you have the Urine Specific Gravity (USG) and the urine protein values?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Again, thanks for your help!!
You are most welcome
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  #469  
Old July 17th, 2011, 10:59 AM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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Urea ref is 5.0-12.0 (she is 17.6)
Creatine ref is 71-203 (she is 298)
Phosphorus ref is 1.00-2.4 (she is 1.17)

These were done in April of this year. kidney kitty is now not eating, it's been about 3 meals that she has only eaten maybe a teaspoon of food. We try all 4 each time and she takes a nibble from each one and that's it. I wonder if we should be taking her to the vet? Would it be worthwhile to get her bloodwork done again? Is there anything they can do for her? She is also quite restless, prior behavior is to sleep all day - now she walks around the house, mostly following us. No other symptoms though (weak legs, vomiting, etc). she has done this no eating before, and we've gone through a few times a month prior of her doing this - but it's been half a year since she's done this. And before her other behavior didn't change, she'd still sleep all day and not follow us around. She just seems to keep looking for something.

Do you know if microwaved food can be put back in the fridge to be used again? trying all 4 foods every meal leaves alot leftover. is it best to throw it away?
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Old July 18th, 2011, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Urea ref is 5.0-12.0 (she is 17.6)
Creatine ref is 71-203 (she is 298)
Phosphorus ref is 1.00-2.4 (she is 1.17)

These were done in April of this year. kidney kitty is now not eating, it's been about 3 meals that she has only eaten maybe a teaspoon of food. We try all 4 each time and she takes a nibble from each one and that's it. I wonder if we should be taking her to the vet? Would it be worthwhile to get her bloodwork done again?
Has your vet mentioned decreasing the time between blood & urine tests?

Often blood/urine tests are done every 3-4 months for CRF or other chronic conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Is there anything they can do for her?
You can ask your vet about an appetite stimulant, something that will just increase her desire to eat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
She is also quite restless, prior behavior is to sleep all day - now she walks around the house, mostly following us. No other symptoms though (weak legs, vomiting, etc). she has done this no eating before, and we've gone through a few times a month prior of her doing this - but it's been half a year since she's done this. And before her other behavior didn't change, she'd still sleep all day and not follow us around. She just seems to keep looking for something.
Is she restless and irritable or is she alert and wanting to be w/her people? Have you tried feeding her when she's following you, do you think she's hungry? What does she do if you stop & sit down?

I know when I had my kidney cat I could tell by her behaviour when her levels were going up. An increase in toxin levels will make her cranky, irritable, not wanting to sit w/me, she'd be in & out on the balcony all the time etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Do you know if microwaved food can be put back in the fridge to be used again? trying all 4 foods every meal leaves alot leftover. is it best to throw it away?
I personally wouldn't warm the food in the microwave (course I couldn't either cuz I don't have one ) - it changes the molecular structure of the food - makes me nervous about cat food in there.

Adding a teaspoon or two of warm water, or placing the dish in a sink of hot water for a few minutes (as long as the dish isn't hot when served) will warm the food sufficiently to release the flavour/scent.

Have you tried offering it without warming it? Why not offer kidney cat a food & if she doesn't eat it feed that to one of the others?
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Old July 18th, 2011, 08:23 AM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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I am staying home today in the hopes that we can get in with the vet.

I bought 4 cans of fancy feast, of which all day yesterday she managed to eat half a can (they are the really small cans). this morning she didn't want her regular SD so again, i opened up a can of the fancy feast(seafeood) and she is gobbling it. she got about 1/2 of a can done.

i do feed the remaining food to the others, they just have usually finished their own by the time kidney cat is done. could you put the warmed (with water etc) food back in the fridge after? or would you throw it out?

thanks for all your help
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Old July 18th, 2011, 08:29 AM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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Sorry, to answer your other question she wont eat when i stop. she just wants something - to be honest it might be to just go outside. she loves outside and we sit on the patio with her on her leash. she loves it out there. normally though, she just sleeps all day and doesn't care what goes on around the house. she's not really sleeping at all, which is very odd for her. she is sleeping in bed with us during hte night though - which is typical for her. just normally she sleeps all day as well.
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Old July 18th, 2011, 11:14 AM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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Just got back from teh vet. She is wondering if she is hyperthyroid as well. It would explain the not wanting to settle down and the lack of appetite as well. She pulled blood to check her kidneys and hte thyroid. So we'll see. Not consitpated and has actually gained a wee bit of weight since last exam.
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Old July 19th, 2011, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
I am staying home today in the hopes that we can get in with the vet.

I bought 4 cans of fancy feast, of which all day yesterday she managed to eat half a can (they are the really small cans). this morning she didn't want her regular SD so again, i opened up a can of the fancy feast(seafeood) and she is gobbling it. she got about 1/2 of a can done.

i do feed the remaining food to the others, they just have usually finished their own by the time kidney cat is done. could you put the warmed (with water etc) food back in the fridge after? or would you throw it out?

thanks for all your help
Yes you put canned with water added, or warmed in the sink back in the fridge to try again later, if microwaved I'd probably toss it .

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Sorry, to answer your other question she wont eat when i stop. she just wants something - to be honest it might be to just go outside. she loves outside and we sit on the patio with her on her leash. she loves it out there. normally though, she just sleeps all day and doesn't care what goes on around the house. she's not really sleeping at all, which is very odd for her. she is sleeping in bed with us during hte night though - which is typical for her. just normally she sleeps all day as well.
Is she meowing more than normal? In particular any yowling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandyedwards View Post
Just got back from teh vet. She is wondering if she is hyperthyroid as well. It would explain the not wanting to settle down and the lack of appetite as well. She pulled blood to check her kidneys and hte thyroid. So we'll see. Not consitpated and has actually gained a wee bit of weight since last exam.
Nice that you could get her in so quick

Did the vet check her blood pressure? Hypertension can also cause restlessness

Hyperthyroid is a possibility, usually the cats are ravenously hungry and loosing weight, but each cat is different and there are always exceptions. The restlessness and wandering around also fits w/hyperT

Little bit of weight gain is good I say for kidney cats, far more common for them to loose too much weight than it is for them to gain even a little.

for good blood results, did the vet take a urine sample for testing?
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  #475  
Old July 19th, 2011, 10:50 AM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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Yes she did check blood pressure and advised it was normal (other than the small elevation due to being in the clinic).

No urine sample. I checked and the last one done was 2009 - so i'm not sure why this is not being tested. I can ask when she calls with teh results today.

She has had 2 solid meals now (about half of a small can of fancy feast). Also was given 1/4 tablets of Pepcid AC, and she's had 2 now. Perhaps that is helping ease her tummy.

She is just acting odd. She is standing by the front door alot, yelling at us for not letting her out. Not terribly odd considering she went out for the first time this year on the weekend - so she just wants to go back out. The house is quite hot right now, about 26 with the afternoon sun. So we've been catching her downstairs on a chair she never sits on. Not sure if hte heat is doing this. Normally she sleeps all day on a chair with a heating blanket under her as she likes the heat. She is still quite restless but yesterday she did sleep most of the day, which is a big departure from the last few days - but then by dinner and the rest of hte night she was awake.

We are going away for the next two weekends and my mom has offered to take her so we know she's getting food offered and her calsitrol. The others will stay at home with dry food.

I'll let you know when the vet calls today.
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Old July 19th, 2011, 05:48 PM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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ok, got back the results. Her thyriod is actually low (she said typical of a cat not feeling well) so no issue with her being hyperthyriod, which is great.

Her kidney levels have gone up since april of this year.

phos is now 2.15 (1.17 in April)
Urea is 24.7 (was 17.6 in April)
Creatinine is 357 (was 298 in April)

They also circled her Calcium, at 2.51 (range 2.00-2.9) - perhaps because it went up. I dont have her April in front of me (only what I typed out on the forum). Ranges all the same for this testing period as last.

She was most concerned with the phos increase. She is ordering a phos binder for her to take. Hopefully that helps out. She suggested this doesn't really indicate why she is not eating right now, and only that she is progressing through the disease. She didn't mention changing her dosage of calcitrol - I didn't think to ask. Not sure what necessitates a dosage change?

She said she might just nto be eating due to her tummy being upset, perhaps the pepcid ac will help that. she has eaten well the last two meals (half a fancy feast, which are the very small cans). i'd like to get her off hte fancy feast but we'll see if she allows me to. her behavior is still odd, not sleeping where she normally sleeps if at all etc. but perhaps its just that upset tummy again.

So all in all, I have a very picky cat that is excessivly picky as a kidney cat. So what do I do to control these numbers? The SD that she likes is actually the least phos of all the foods she likes (wellness and evo) so I dont see how that is causing the increase in phos numbers.
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Old July 20th, 2011, 02:42 AM
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Those increases in numbers is the most likely cause for her being "off" & a bit cranky - the build up of toxins makes one irritable.

Ask your vet about starting her on Azodyl http://www.vetoquinolusa.com/CorePro...al/Azodyl.html

In regards to the phos rising even on a lower phos foods:
Her kidneys can't excrete enough phos so it's building up, even on a food with the lowest possible value the blood phos would still rise because nothing is going out.

The phos binder will not remove much/any of the blood phos but it will prevent absorption of more phos from the food which is why while on a phos binder a kidney cat can safely eat a higher phos food.

Just a guess but the vet likely circled the calcium because the use of calcitrol will cause an increase in calcium values

The ideal Calcium to Phosphorus ratio for cats is 1.2:1 so her numbers fall not too far off 1.16:1.

The changes in calcium levels especially and also phos levels would be determining factors for the dosage amounts, since calcitrol basically regulates the production of calcium.
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  #478  
Old July 20th, 2011, 10:28 AM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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Thanks for that link - I will ask the vet about it.

She is currently not eating again. Yesterday breakfast she ate ok, dinner nothing and bedtime a small amount. Then breakfast this morning she ate a bit of fancy feast salmon (after 3 other food attempts), ate a bit and puked it all up. So no food in her belly again.

I just need to figure out how to make her eat! We have 6 different types of food in our rotation and we try all 6 at each meal just about with no results. i'm goign to look up the values of some other (maybe other wellness?) and see if she just wnats something different again (assuming thats why she ate the salmon as she hadn't had that one before).

she did eat a bit of chicken and chicken broth baby food yesterday, a bit. Then the next meal she wouldn't touch it. So frustrating!!

I think i need some type of appetite stimulant!!
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Old July 21st, 2011, 12:42 AM
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Definately ask the vet about an appetite stimulant.

Is she looking nauseous at all before she eats? Lip licking, excessive swallowing, drooling, head hanging over the water dish?

Perhaps it's also time to ask the vet about subq fluid therapy.
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  #480  
Old July 21st, 2011, 04:48 PM
mandyedwards mandyedwards is offline
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no, no sypmtoms of nausea. other than vomiting yesterday (we gave her salmon for the first time, so that might have done it).

vet said she wasn't dehydrated which is good. she is now drinking from the fountain

last night bedtime she looked really hungry so we fed her and she inhaled half the food, then stopped lol. this morning she had another solid eating (after 2 foods). So w'ell see tonight. if she's good tonight she might be getting her appetite back.

we also went and got 10 more other foods that are ok for her to eat so we have some backups for when she doesn't eat.
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