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  #181  
Old January 7th, 2011, 06:56 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Fingers crossed for good bloodwork results....
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  #182  
Old January 7th, 2011, 07:27 PM
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Hope Timber's blood test results are improving.
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  #183  
Old January 11th, 2011, 11:57 AM
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Update?????
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  #184  
Old January 11th, 2011, 02:02 PM
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I was hoping for one, too!

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  #185  
Old January 11th, 2011, 02:04 PM
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That makes three of us.
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  #186  
Old January 11th, 2011, 02:10 PM
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Hopefully no news is good news
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  #187  
Old January 12th, 2011, 05:58 PM
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Hi everyone.

I wonder why they moved this thread to senior dogs since younger dogs can be afflicted with the same condition???

Sorry to keep you waiting. I just got the results back yesterday. Not sure why they took so long but maybe because we were right upon the weekend.

The results aren't too bad but her platelets have dropped from 287 (Dec 14) to 191. Her red blood cells are normal (5.74) and her white count has dropped from 6 to 5.4 so that is good.

As you know she is on the doxy treatment again (started Jan 1). I did contact the fellow who was co-author of the journals in which anaplasmosis was studied in Minnesota and in the 3 cases in Saskatoon. He use to work at North Carolina State U but now teaches. He gave me some really great advice and he told me that in their studies, anaplasmosis does not become chronic so once you treat it it should be cleared from the body. That being said, because Timber's immune system was suppressed an additional treatment in her case is needed because the antibiotic kills the multiplying bacteria but it is the dogs immune system that takes care of the rest. So we can't be sure she was able to get rid of the entire infection. He also said that The only tick-borne diseases that can be in a sub-clinical phase ("hidden") and come back after stress or other immunosuppression episodes are Lyme disease, Ehrlichia, and Bartonella.

After getting these results my vet suggested putting Timber back on low dose steroids. I certainly felt worried about doing that but I guess she just wasn't sure if we weaned her off too quickly or not and wondered if that was why her platelets had dropped. Again, I contacted this fellow for advice and his suggestion was not to introduce the steroid again --- in his words:

At this point the big question is: did your dog develop immunomediated thrombocytopenia (ITP)? And if yes, did he develop before, during, or after Anaplasma infection? It is not an easy question, because both diseases cause decrease in platelets. There is no specific test to diagnose ITP, and we normally need to rule out other diseases first (especially tick-transmitted diseases). Therefore, I would not reintroduce dexamethasone at this point, so you can be sure that doxycycline would be efficient and infection is not part of your problem anymore.

You should not be so worried about the platelet numbers, because it naturally varies a little bit within the normal range. For some labs, >180,000 is normal, for others >200,000. If it takes too long for the sample to arrive in the lab, platelets clump together, and the machine artificially reads less platelets in the sample. Always ask for a blood slide review, so the pathologist will tell you if there is an adequate number of platelets or if there are clumps. Platelets also adhere to glass surfaces (including blood tubes!) if they are not analyzed within few hours after the collection.Your dog should not experience any bleeding disorder if platelets are >50,000.

Finally, corticoid therapy increases platelet production even in healthy dogs. Dogs with abnormally high values of endogenous corticoid (due to an adrenal tumor for example) normally have very high platelet numbers. So I would expect a slight decrease in platelet number after you stop dexamethazone.

If you had stopped dexamethazone too fast, your dog would be really really sick by now (vomiting, diarrhea, etc). I don’t believe this is the case.

I would repeat a blood cell count by the end of the doxycycline treatment, or if the dog gets sick before it. Let’s hope that everything goes well this time.


So, it is always good to ask questions and I think after all that has gone on, I seem to be questioning everything now.

As for the patient, she is doing great. I think she is almost back to her old self, gaining more weight and howling all the time. She has gained back 10 pounds so looks much better! We have a second appointment for acupuncture and some chiropractic adjustments. I'm not sure if I noticed a difference but we only had one visit to date so we will wait and see what happens. Her spine and pelvis area are very stiff and her legs are still weak. She still limps but I believe this might be an injury from so much muscle wasting and weakness. She had a burst of energy and was digging a hole in the snow but right after that caused her to limp again so that's why I think she may have some kind of chronic injury.

Good news overall!
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  #188  
Old January 13th, 2011, 09:01 AM
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That is great news . I am so glad you contacted the researcher, I would be listening to his advice, for sure!

If he is indeed correct about the immune system needed to fight the existing bacteria, then for sure, your dog should not be put on steriods , that is only common sense.

Now of course we do need pics of the patient so we can evaluate for cuteness
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  #189  
Old January 13th, 2011, 01:40 PM
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SW, that is wonderful news.

I too am glad that you contacted the researcher ....without his advise, poor Timber would be back on steroids again so kudos to you for checking things out so thoroughly.

Has your vet shown any more interest in getting information out there that tick disease does happen in Canada? Perhaps, if you could get a newspaper to publish Timber's story just to make the public more aware to get help if they suspect it with any of their pets.

Sending more for Timber's recovery and yes, I'd love to see new pics too.
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  #190  
Old January 13th, 2011, 03:22 PM
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Wonderful update, SW! So glad that Timber seems to be on the road to recovery now!!!
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  #191  
Old January 14th, 2011, 01:32 PM
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Interesting update! Very interesting to hear what the researcher had to say.
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  #192  
Old January 14th, 2011, 06:17 PM
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Thanks everyone!

I also wanted to ask your opinions on the panacur for giardia. I haven't given it yet because I wanted to wait until Timber was off the doxycycline and feeling better.

I received it in a liquid form and am to give 13.7 ml once a day for three days. Has anyone else used the liquid? Seems like a lot to give and so I'm wondering how I will manage disguising it.
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  #193  
Old January 14th, 2011, 09:10 PM
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Thanks everyone!

I also wanted to ask your opinions on the panacur for giardia. I haven't given it yet because I wanted to wait until Timber was off the doxycycline and feeling better.

I received it in a liquid form and am to give 13.7 ml once a day for three days. Has anyone else used the liquid? Seems like a lot to give and so I'm wondering how I will manage disguising it.

So glad to see things are looking up and Timber is slowly getting back to normal

As for the liquid version of the panacur, I used it for both Thorin and Nanook a few months ago. We REALLY struggled for the first day and a half... until I figured out how to do it lol. Ours wouldn't take it in food or water, and you have to be very careful just shooting it into the mouth as they could inhale it. We fought (literally) with Nookie trying to get his mouth open enough to get the syringe in. That is, until, hubby held him and I just pulled his bottom lip out and squirted it (very slowly) between his back molars and cheek. We did the same for Thorin and it worked well

Neither one seemed to mind that... but try to pry their mouths open... forget it
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  #194  
Old January 18th, 2011, 03:35 PM
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Thanks for the tip Rgeurts! Seems like a challenge but I will try your suggestion when the time comes.

I was just reading your thread and hope all is well with Nanook. Poor guy, however, if it turns out to be thyroid, at least you have some options.
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  #195  
Old January 19th, 2011, 01:41 AM
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Wow, lots of news!! So glad that Timber is still doing well overall. Seems like those blood tests took forever

To be honest, when I heard that she was off the doxy, I expected the platelets to drop. Same thing happens with Max. Great that the RBC is holding and the WBC has come down (is it normal now?).
I am absolutely shocked that the vet would want to put Timber back on steroids. She just doesn't "get it"

This entire process really is life changing, and very likely changes how you look at a lot of this medical stuff.

I think it's great that you contacted the researcher. I've been thinking about the meaning of "chronic". We have seen these chronic disease states on the tick list from dogs treated for anaplasmosis. So I guess the question really is, whether the infection is really cleared, and that makes sense to me. I think the disagreement may lie in how "easy" it is to eliminate the organisms throughout the body.

I think any disease process that the immune system is responsible for keeping in check will flare when the body is stressed, no matter what. He seems to make a distinction between anaplasmosa and ehrlichia, interesting, perhaps a lot more to learn there!

And the most important thing, so glad that Timber is doing so well. With the weight gain and vocalization, how great to have her back

I hope that the limp gets better, but in the grand scheme of things, Timber with a limp is soooooooooooo much better than no Timber at all. I was getting really worried when we hadn't heard from you. Often that's terrible news. What a relief!
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  #196  
Old January 24th, 2011, 04:45 PM
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Has your vet shown any more interest in getting information out there that tick disease does happen in Canada? Perhaps, if you could get a newspaper to publish Timber's story just to make the public more aware to get help if they suspect it with any of their pets.

No, not really. I did ask if this was a reportable disease and apparently it is not one that needs to be reported to the CDC. That really surprised me considering humans can also get this disease and Lyme is on that list I meant to go to our MB government website and find out why.
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  #197  
Old January 24th, 2011, 04:48 PM
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Thanks MaxaLisa,

We will test again on Feb 6 (that would be a month since the last blood test and after another 30 days on doxycycline).

Still has a chronic limp but seems happy overall

Has anyone tried a product called Recovery SA? I might try it with Timber.

http://www.recoverysa.com/
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  #198  
Old January 24th, 2011, 05:29 PM
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We have Nookie on Recovery SA. Dr. Marsden put him on it about 6 weeks ago. I don't know if it's helping a lot. Nookie still has a pretty bad limp. But he doesn't seem to be hurting as bad, so who knows

We were getting it through the vet at $33.00 per 100 grams (which only lasts a little over a week at Nookies size). pbpatti told me to check Tailblazers. I did and we now get a 350 gram jar for $42.00 (thank you patti!! ). Once they get the 2.2 lb container back in stock, I will be buying it that way for $79.00.

I'm very glad to see Timber is still doing well, overall!!
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  #199  
Old January 24th, 2011, 06:45 PM
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Has anyone tried a product called Recovery SA? I might try it with Timber.

http://www.recoverysa.com/
I use it for Skippy, more as a maintenance supplement, he has a bit of a tricky back leg and is 11 1/2 years old. I think without it he could develop problems.

I also used it on Cocoa before she passed on, she went from having senior difficulties to jumping in 3 weeks.

They now have Recovery Extra Strength which is suppose to be better http://www.purica.com/recovery.htm......When we finish the tub we have I will then go to the Extra Strength formula.

Rguerts you say you go through 100grms in 1 week, is that the dosage that Dr. Marsden suggested you use?
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  #200  
Old January 24th, 2011, 07:16 PM
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Rguerts you say you go through 100grms in 1 week, is that the dosage that Dr. Marsden suggested you use?
It is. We give Nookie 3 tsps a day. Seems like a lot, but when I calculated the dose from the label, it's only 1/2 tsp more than what the label says
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  #201  
Old January 24th, 2011, 07:19 PM
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It is. We give Nookie 3 tsps a day. Seems like a lot, but when I calculated the dose from the label, it's only 1/2 tsp more than what the label says
According to the label, doesn't it say to lower the dose after the first few weeks and keep them on a maintenance dose.....you might find the Ex Strength is better for Nookie...that doesn't come in the 1 kilo tub though, not yet.
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  #202  
Old January 24th, 2011, 07:33 PM
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According to the label, doesn't it say to lower the dose after the first few weeks and keep them on a maintenance dose.....you might find the Ex Strength is better for Nookie...that doesn't come in the 1 kilo tub though, not yet.
On mine, it says to start at a lower dose and work your way up, but nothing about lowering it (not that I remember reading, anyway). I was thinking of using the extra strength and plan on asking Dr. Marsden on Friday when we see him. I don't mind if it isn't in the 1kg tub. I'm sure it's still cheaper than getting it from the vet!

Between that, his herbs, pancrease-V and meds we are spending about $500a month. That's not including his food and vet visits
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  #203  
Old January 24th, 2011, 07:45 PM
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On mine, it says to start at a lower dose and work your way up, but nothing about lowering it (not that I remember reading, anyway). I was thinking of using the extra strength and plan on asking Dr. Marsden on Friday when we see him. I don't mind if it isn't in the 1kg tub. I'm sure it's still cheaper than getting it from the vet!

I'm gonna have to read the label again

Between that, his herbs, pancrease-V and meds we are spending about $500a month. That's not including his food and vet visits
You're still young and have time to recoup

Super Wanda for hi-jacking
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  #204  
Old January 25th, 2011, 10:43 AM
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You're still young and have time to recoup

Super Wanda for hi-jacking
LoL, yes. Money is made to be spent

And I did read the label. It does say around 60 days you may be able to lower the dose and have it be effective. I'm sure Dr. Marsden will let me know when to lower it (if ever).

And sorry from me to Wanda!
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  #205  
Old January 25th, 2011, 12:33 PM
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LoL, yes. Money is made to be spent

That's why I have none

And I did read the label. It does say around 60 days you may be able to lower the dose and have it be effective. I'm sure Dr. Marsden will let me know when to lower it (if ever).

Me too, I boobed on it

And sorry from me to Wanda!
Ditto Wanda
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  #206  
Old January 25th, 2011, 06:46 PM
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No troubles.

I noticed that the purica website has a list of suggested retailers so I am going to look through and see who has the best price (and free shipping if possible).

We only have one store that carries it and they don't have the best prices.

Rgeurts -- I think you mentioned before that Nanook has a limp from the steroids??? Timbers limp is, I believe, the right front leg and I wonder if it is coming from the shoulder/spinal area but hard to tell. I was told by the natural healing rehab vet to not stop exercising however I am finding that exercise seems to make it worse.
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  #207  
Old January 25th, 2011, 07:27 PM
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Rgeurts -- I think you mentioned before that Nanook has a limp from the steroids??? Timbers limp is, I believe, the right front leg and I wonder if it is coming from the shoulder/spinal area but hard to tell. I was told by the natural healing rehab vet to not stop exercising however I am finding that exercise seems to make it worse.
Nanooks is the left front leg, shoulder and paw. They believe the reason for his limp is that the steroids cause loss of muscle and the tendons become "loose". In some of his pictures you can see that instead of standing upright on the paw, his little leg from the ankle down was actually laying flat on the ground. It has corrected quite a bit, but he still has a bad limp. I don't think it hurts him most of the time, but once in awhile he will step and just scream... it tears my heart out

Dr. Marsden and Dr. Milan both told us not to exercise him too much. They said to take him for very short walks and slowly work our way up to 15 minutes max. He can play at daycare but has to be with only 1 dog at a time and it can't be with a hyper puppy. He also has to take a lot of breaks in between. Nanook is insanely intelligent and gets bored so easy so Dr. Milan also suggested setting up a small obstacle course with chairs and different items and walk him through figure 8's etc to give him a good mental workout and it will also excersice him, but won't overdo it. Someone reccomended hydro-therapy. I'll be talking to Dr. Marsden about that on Friday. I can say that when we overdo it, I notice his limp gets much worse and he has more pain.
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  #208  
Old January 30th, 2011, 12:04 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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SW, Max gets a limp on his front leg and it does come from his neck. He's be lost without his chiropractor! Occasionally his shoulder also has to get adjusted.
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  #209  
Old January 30th, 2011, 02:41 PM
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Poor Nanook -- perhaps as he grows he will be able to get over some of the damage caused by the steroids. We have also been doing a few exercises. Lifting up one leg for 10 seconds so that it forces her to balance. She also said to try to make her walk backwards -- this is not easy. We try to create a narrow passage by putting the coffee table beside the couch and forcing her go back to get out but she usually just stands there and doesn't know what to do.

MaxaLisa -- The natural healing vet said that Timber's neck is very tight as well. It's funny because we have been giving Timber massages at home to try and stimulate healing and circulation, she is getting very accustomed to these treatments and paws and grumbles at us as if to say, "Okay people, time for my massage"
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  #210  
Old January 30th, 2011, 03:05 PM
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She also said to try to make her walk backwards -- this is not easy. We try to create a narrow passage by putting the coffee table beside the couch and forcing her go back to get out but she usually just stands there and doesn't know what to do.
Have you tried it with a treat in your hand? I was told that walking backwards would be good for our lab as a recovery exercise after his tplo operation. I started doing it when feeding his meals and walking towards him with his food dish held up and he automatically would walk backwards. Hope it works for you.
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