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Old August 24th, 2010, 12:52 AM
merroo merroo is offline
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Just started feeding raw.

I'm in another pets forum and they occasionally mention the RAW diet but I'm not 100% knowledgeable about it, so I have a few questions.

My dog is 35lbs at his healthy weight but right now he's maybe 45lbs max. How much food should I typically give him?

Tonight was his first supper with RAW and he seemed to really enjoy it. I gave him a meaty pork breast bone and three chicken hearts. Is this okay? Tomorrow I was planning on giving him half a liver for dinner (would this be enough?)

We just grabbed some things from the store as a trial run since he's been known to be picky about bones. We have chicken breasts (could I give him one as a meal?) chicken hearts, liver, and pork breast bone. I am going to pick up some tripe next time but what other kind of bones could I feed? Do I need to give a bone every meal?

Would I be able to feed bison and deer? I know I can feed rabbit. Are these high in fat, and roughly how much would I need to feed? I don't want to feed anything with high fat contents since my dog isn't very active.


I'm sorry for the question overload but I just want to do this properly.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 03:54 PM
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hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
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I'm going to bump this up a bit, merroo--I have a dog that I may be switching to raw, and I have the same sorts of questions.

one of our RAW gurus signs on soon!
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Old August 24th, 2010, 09:39 PM
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luckypenny luckypenny is offline
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Originally Posted by merroo View Post
My dog is 35lbs at his healthy weight but right now he's maybe 45lbs max. How much food should I typically give him?
2-3% of his ideal weight. However, because he's overweight, you could aim for 2-3% of 40lb to start until he reaches it. For example, 2.5% of 40lbs = 1lb. You do have to take into account his activity level though. What breed is he? How old is he? I mention activity level because we have a 24lb mixed breed dog who eats 1.25lbs per day. If I fed her only 2-3%, she'd be awfully underweight. You say your dog isn't very active but how much activity does he get a day ie. walks, playtime, etc? You can get an electronic kitchen scale to accurately measure how much your feeding until you get the hang of it.

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Originally Posted by merroo View Post
I gave him a meaty pork breast bone and three chicken hearts. Is this okay?
How much meat on the bone are you talking about? 1/2 meat, 3/4 meat, etc? The ideal ratio of meat : bone : organs should be something like 75-80% : 10-15% : 10% which would translate into 12-12.8 oz meat : 1.6-2.4 oz bone : 1.6 oz organs.

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Originally Posted by merroo View Post
Tomorrow I was planning on giving him half a liver for dinner (would this be enough?)
What kind of liver? You run the risk of diarrhea if feeding only organs for a meal.

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Originally Posted by merroo View Post
We have chicken breasts (could I give him one as a meal?)
Full breasts with meat? That is fine.

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Originally Posted by merroo View Post
what other kind of bones could I feed?
We feed mainly chicken carcass, chicken neck, and pork bones. The softer the bone, the easier to digest for our dogs (why we don't feed any weight bearing bones such as chicken thigh for example). We also feed whole frozen sardines and mackerel for their high calcium content.

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Do I need to give a bone every meal?
No, you don't. As long as he's getting the right percentage over a few days, he should be ok. If you skip a day of bones, you can feed 3.2 - 4.8oz bone the next day. We use the consistency of our dogs' stools to help guide us. If they seems constipated and/or their stools are very hard and crumbly, we ease back on the bones...if their stools are too soft, we add a little bit more.

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Would I be able to feed bison and deer? I know I can feed rabbit. Are these high in fat, and roughly how much would I need to feed? I don't want to feed anything with high fat contents since my dog isn't very active.
Fat makes up about 10-15% of the meat we feed our guys. Remember that some fat is good...raw fat does have some health benefits, unlike processed fatty grease.

Yes, you can feed bison and deer. I have heard that organs from hunted animals shouldn't be fed though to avoid transmission of parasites. I never really researched it as it doesn't apply to us. If you're just starting out with raw, try to stick to one protein source at a time for a couple of weeks to make sure your dog tolerates it well. If you don't mix and your dog reacts negatively, it'll be easier to figure out which meat he doesn't tolerate well (all our dogs have explosive diarrhea with lamb, and two if I feed beef more than 3 meals in a row).

In conclusion, if your goal is 75-80% meat, 10-15% bone, 10% organs, from a variety of sources you're well on your way to feeding a well-balanced raw diet.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 09:44 PM
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cassiek cassiek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merroo View Post
I'm in another pets forum and they occasionally mention the RAW diet but I'm not 100% knowledgeable about it, so I have a few questions.

My dog is 35lbs at his healthy weight but right now he's maybe 45lbs max. How much food should I typically give him?

Tonight was his first supper with RAW and he seemed to really enjoy it. I gave him a meaty pork breast bone and three chicken hearts. Is this okay? Tomorrow I was planning on giving him half a liver for dinner (would this be enough?)

We just grabbed some things from the store as a trial run since he's been known to be picky about bones. We have chicken breasts (could I give him one as a meal?) chicken hearts, liver, and pork breast bone. I am going to pick up some tripe next time but what other kind of bones could I feed? Do I need to give a bone every meal?

Would I be able to feed bison and deer? I know I can feed rabbit. Are these high in fat, and roughly how much would I need to feed? I don't want to feed anything with high fat contents since my dog isn't very active.


I'm sorry for the question overload but I just want to do this properly.
Hi Merroo,

I can try to be of some help, and hopefully some RAW experts will turn up soon that can offer more advice. I have only been feeding RAW for about a year, so I am somewhat of a novice myself!

Generally, for an adult dog, you want to feed between 2-3% of their bodyweight in RAW. So, at 45 lbs, if you fed 2.5% you would feed just a little over 1lb a day (1.125 to be exact). I think 2.5% is generally a good starting point, and you can adjust it from there based on his weight.

For porportions, generally if you think in terms of a prey animal, you should be OK. Ex. Lots of bone, lots of raw muscle meat, a little raw organ meat, and a little pre-digested stomach content (tripe), as well as some extras.

There are different ways you can do RAW. When I fed my dogs 100% raw I went with 75-80% raw meat, 10-15% raw bone (edible bone ex. chicken backs/necks), 10% organ meat, and then some "others" i.e. tripe, yogurt, etc.

For organ meat, I usually stick to liver or heart, but don't give it every day - usually I give it about 3 X a week.

Be careful when you buy tripe that you buy GREEN tripe, not the WHITE that is usually found in grocery stores. I can find GREEN, raw tripe at my local TailBlazers, but it smells so awful I usually buy it in the can, Tripett (and it still stinks ).

You don't need to give a bone every meal (we are talking recreational bones here right?). For recreational bones, I usually do once a week. I'm sure more often wouldn't hurt, but with having 4 dogs I try to minimize my costs P.S. you will be so impressed with how clean and white your dog's teeth stay with raw bones!

As for edible bones, like I said, you should incorporate them into meals on a regular basis (10-15% of total). I like chicken backs and necks, but you can also find some ground up RAW that you can purchase at petstores that will have the bone ground up in it.

I don't think bison or deer are a problem. I have fed them to my dogs, but not on an often basis because they are not readily available around here, and they are too expensive to buy through the petstore. I wouldn't feed them all the time, but they are not a problem for a switch up once in awhile. I use a lot of poultry because it's cheapest here (turkey or chicken) and beef. Once in a while I will give lamb, rabbit, or bison as a treat.

That's the other thing, make sure to switch the diet often. That's the beauty of RAW is you can switch up the meals. BUT make sure you start slowly, if you try to introduce too many new proteins at once the dog may get diarrhea I would start with chicken and turkey and slowly try introducing different kinds.

Hope this helps! There are some really great threads in the RAW section here, that have tons of information. If you scroll through them, you should find everything you are looking for.
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Last edited by cassiek; August 24th, 2010 at 09:49 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 12:52 AM
merroo merroo is offline
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Thank you for the replies!

My dog is a welsh pembroke x wire hair fox terrier, and I believe he's 7. He gets half an hour of walks, and he doesn't usually play, but when he does he'll run around for seven minutes and then give up.

The bones are roughly 1/2 meat. We have a scale somewhere in the house but if I can't find it I'll certainly invest in a scale.

He didn't seem to like the liver, he brought it out of his bowl into his special place, licked it and walked away. I ended up giving him a chicken breast tonight.

I wouldn't give him the organs of any game animals. I only ask about game animals because my grandparents hunt deer and elk and they usually have leftovers. Bison because a store nearby specializes in bison. Although I heard that if you do feed organs you should freeze them for a few months to kill any bacteria, would you know if that's true?

I was going to do two protein sources for a few weeks - pork and chicken. If anything does happen I should still be able to narrow it down. Barney is usually picky when it comes to his food so buying two sources at a time would probably be best to figure out what he likes anyways.

Barney seems to really enjoy chicken hearts (as does the cat!) But what's the difference between green and white tripe? Is green tripe typically hard to find? I'm not too worried about the smell, when it comes to my dog I can handle nearly everything.

It's only been two days and I swear I can already notice a slight difference in his teeth!

Is it normal for the bowel movements to be slightly softer than usual for the first little bit?

I still need to find a butcher! Right now we're just doing what the grocery store has. Edmonton doesn't seem to have too many.

Thank you again everyone! I just managed to convince my parents to feed raw a few days ago so I was slightly thrown into it once they bought bones and meat. My mom has also been reading up on RAW and she seems to like the idea - it's generally cheaper, and so much better for the dog.
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Old August 25th, 2010, 11:52 AM
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luckypenny luckypenny is offline
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Originally Posted by merroo View Post
My dog is a welsh pembroke x wire hair fox terrier
And he's low energy . I guess there is an exception to every rule . What was he eating prior to the switch to raw? You may notice his energy levels pick up as he adjusts to the raw and might have to add another 30+ minutes to his walks.

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Originally Posted by merroo View Post
He didn't seem to like the liver, he brought it out of his bowl into his special place, licked it and walked away.
You can try searing it lightly in a frying pan to get him used to the flavor.

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Originally Posted by merroo View Post
Although I heard that if you do feed organs you should freeze them for a few months to kill any bacteria, would you know if that's true?
If it's fresh human grade from a butcher or a poultry shop, I often feed fresh organs without freezing and haven't run into any problems in over 3 years. I think it's parasites rather than bacteria you would be killing by deep freezing for 30+ days. Again, if the meat you're feeding is human grade, parasites shouldn't be a worry.

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what's the difference between green and white tripe? Is green tripe typically hard to find?
White tripe has been emptied of it's contents and has been bleached ie. safe for human consumption. In Quebec, raw green tripe is illegal to sell to the general public. I can only find the cooked canned varieties (eg. Trippet). You might be able to get some through cattle farmers in your area. Some pet supply stores also sell it raw-frozen. I haven't been able to locate any here.

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Originally Posted by merroo View Post
Is it normal for the bowel movements to be slightly softer than usual for the first little bit?
Perfectly normal unless it's explosive foul smelling diarrhea (could be he's not tolerating the meat source). Once he's adjusted well to raw and if it goes on for a few days you can 1. increase the bone content by a little bit, 2. decrease the organ content by a little bit 3. offer him a tablespoon or two of plain organic yogurt between meals.

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I still need to find a butcher! Right now we're just doing what the grocery store has. Edmonton doesn't seem to have too many.
Here's a list of some that may be close-by. http://www.yellowpages.ca/search/si/...etail/Edmonton

Here is also a list of Aberta meat suppliers where you can buy in bulk most likely much cheaper than a grocery store or butcher's. Scroll down to Alberta.

http://lepusreg.tripod.com/NRS1a.html
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Old January 7th, 2011, 01:05 AM
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mhikl mhikl is offline
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Namaste Merroo,

Iím into day 4 with my dog so Iím floundering round in the dark, too. Thereís a plethora of info on this site - check the B.A.R.F site in this forum. Also some good info found in a google search. Itís how I found this forum.

I buy my food from a Chinese grocery in Calgary. (Hong Kong on 17 Ave SE) I believe it is an independent. If I get time, will check out T&T tomorrow and compare prices. And when I can get to Hong Kong grocer next, Iíll ask if they know any good stores in Edmonton. I am sure Edmonton will have great buys there if you can find them.

Prices for comparison: all in pounds, Iím afraid: Chickenófeet $2.09 ónecks $1.09 ó Beef bones cut up (not honking big) $2.00 a bag - I think it was a lb. Bag. óbacks $1.29.

Check out Super Store for AA-1 Sardines Red with chillies. 69Ę here in Calgary for a 155g tin. Cheeper than at the Chinese stores. Sadie and I share a tin a day for breakfast.

I boiled up a dozen eggs: Put eggs in 2 L cold water; no need to puncture eggs when done from cold. Put on high heat. When water comes to the boil turn down to low simmer-boil for 12 or so minutes for large eggs. (no green yolks this way) When done, put into large bowl of cold water with 2 trays of ice cubes. When melted, eggs cool. Dry and place back into egg carton and into fridge.

I add 1 egg and 2/3 AA-1 Sardines for Sadieís breakfast. (I get the other 1/3). Crack shell all round and then I scrunch the egg and mix with egg. I also add a tsp lecithin and a crushed Vitamin C tablet. I have to get some cod liver oil caps.

Iím trying to find out if a dog would benefit from some magnesium. I had a doctor who used to say that if everyone took magnesium daily, the hospitals would be empty. Go figger.

I wonít buy liver from grocery stores. Liver there is filthy. I wrote about this in https://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread...536#post974536. I think I will repost this as its own thread.

I would be cautious about feeding too much organ meat in any one day. I started my dog off on a thumb size piece as she has had runny bms before.

From what I read before I came to this site was to start dogs off with beef and chicken. However, my dog has had problems with beef (hamburger and liver) in the past so I am restricting beef to bones, though the bones I am getting have a fair amount of meat on them.

Day 1: Sadie was cautious about eating this stuff. It took her a while to get the chicken neck down. She was a little taken back with the chicken feet which still had their nails on, though not painted. But, ever the pig, she kept at the first one and it seemed to fill her.
Day 2: Began peeing a lot. This was much like what happens to me if I eat too many carbs for a while (xmas time) and then return to Atkins hi protein/fat. I guess dogs retain water, like humans when eating too many carbs.
Day 3: Still a lot of peeing. Seems to have trouble with her bum. Moves about alto but gets the job done. Stool is softer than usual.
Day 4: Peeing seems normal. Stool still soft. Itís like this has been her food all along. Not sticking her nose up at chicken feet and their nails. Takes a neck down like a pro now.

Here is a site that talks about how many calories a dog needs. Donít know how good it really is but I am going to follow it as Sadie needs to shed 8 xmas pounds (every day is Christmas in Sadie delinquent mind) and you mentioned a little pork prob with your pet (unless I'm confusing forums).
http://www.smalldogsparadise.com/hea...og-need-a-day/
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