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  #31  
Old August 24th, 2010, 10:30 AM
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Sylvie,what a beautiful girl Miss Bree is and how sad that she has spent most of her life in a kennel
I suppose to many breeders,if a dog cannot produce anymore,she's no longer of any use to the breeder.

Miss Bree is a lucky girl,what could have happened to her,if you did not come along
I am certain with your loving care she will lose her insecurity soon
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  #32  
Old August 24th, 2010, 10:51 AM
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Thank you Chico, I sure hope so. It breaks my heart to see her so afraid of me. But I do notice she is looking at the other dogs and trying to follow their lead.

At least she pee'd this morning, just need her to poop now. I just need to be patient with her.
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  #33  
Old August 24th, 2010, 11:32 AM
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Sylvie, how sad that she is so nervous of everything. I'm sure though that with time she will take the cue from the other dogs and learn to relax and trust again. I agree with Mirela that everything I've heard says not to mix raw and kibble in one meal. You might want to be careful with that.

Ms. Bree (I do like that better, sorry hubby) come on now and join the pawty. You're gonna love it!
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  #34  
Old August 24th, 2010, 11:34 AM
Chris21711 Chris21711 is offline
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With your TLC she will feel at home in no time Sylvie

What Mirela said about not feeding raw and kibble in the same meal due to different digestion rates, from what I understand it should not be done Sylvie.
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  #35  
Old August 24th, 2010, 11:40 AM
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She is just beautiful! With her new loving home she is going to blossom and come out of her shell in no time
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  #36  
Old August 24th, 2010, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirela View Post
I don't think you should mix raw meat with kibble.
Ditto.

Sylvie , your best bet would be to give kibble 2 hours apart from the raw. And if she still hasn't poop , maybe a tablespoon of pumpkin puree (not the pie filling , the 100% pumpkin puree) twice a day with her meals.

she sounds like a puppy mill dog they're always more comfy around other dogs but , you can use that. Once she sees that your other dogs are not afraid of you , she'll caught on. with time and patience ... but she will.

keep us posted
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  #37  
Old August 24th, 2010, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirela View Post
I don't think you should mix raw meat with kibble. From what I've read about this, raw meat and kibble digest at different speeds and mixing might create problems for your dog's digestive system.
At the most, fed raw at one meal and kibble at the other.

Thank you, I didn't know about that. Do you think just a straight switch would be the best way to change to kibble?

Only one pee since Saturday?? Does not sound right...perhaps a vet visit might be needed. Is she drinking??
She had a long pee this morning.
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  #38  
Old August 24th, 2010, 02:49 PM
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If you could stick with raw, I guess it might be better for her. Was she fed raw before? - then she might do better if you could continue.
There is an entire subforum here to help you with this type of feeding. I don't feed raw so I cannot advise first hand but there are members here who do. I'm sure if you open a new thread with this type of questions you will get a lot of good responses.

However, a good brand of kibble, grain free, should work as well. The transitioning process - perhaps "cold turkey" could work but I would suggest to give her a bit of time before you do that. Right now the poor girl has had enough changes in her life and needs some time to adjust to everything.

IMO - for now just feed her raw at one meal and kibble at the other - what brand are you using? - and make sure she poops OK and pees regularly. Then you could reassess her diet in a couple of weeks. Just my

Good luck.
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  #39  
Old August 24th, 2010, 02:58 PM
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I am feeding her Origen.
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  #40  
Old August 24th, 2010, 05:08 PM
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Macie behaved very similarly when she first arrived, Sylvie. Cass and Cole took her under their paw and taught her to play and enjoy herself. She slowly thawed, but it took a couple of months. She's going to learn a lot by watching your dogs. Just give her time and watch her blossom!
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  #41  
Old August 24th, 2010, 07:53 PM
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I don't feed raw but I know there is a lot of controversy on the internet about not feeding with kibble because of the different digestion rates.

According to Lew Olsen who has a PHD in Nutrition and owns the b-naturals.com website and also the K-9 Nutrition website it is fine to feed both kibble and raw together as long as the raw does not contain any bone.

I have some information about it saved from one of her newsletters and will go find it and then post it here.
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  #42  
Old August 24th, 2010, 08:22 PM
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Okay, here is the information from http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/changing-diets/ .....

Quote:
Raw Diets

Raw foods can be added to either commercial food or home cooked foods during the transition to a raw diet. The only exception would be the raw meaty bones, which should be fed separate from dry dog food. While many dogs do fine with this, some dogs don’t do quite as well as the bones compete with the digestion of the dry food. Gastric juices are excreted on the lining of the stomach and both foods, being heavy, gravitate to this area. This can cause some undigested food to be present in the stool. So, you can mix muscle meat and organ meat with kibble, but feed raw meaty bones as a separate meal from kibble for the first few weeks. Instructions for feeding a raw diet can be found here: http://www.b-naturals.com/May2006.php

And, here is a question and the answer (in blue) from the archives of k-9 nutrition http://onibasu.com/archives/kn/121809.html ....

Quote:
Hi,

Lew, I've noticed a couple of times that you've mentioned that you
can add raw to kibble but not RMBs? Can you explain why to me? My RM
currently is feeding mostly kibble, some canned food and chicken
backs to his 5 mo. old Gr. Pyr. Is this bad for him? And if so, can
you explain it to me in a way that I can easily explain to my
roommate?

Sometimes the kibble can block the digestion of bones. Basically the stomach churns and the 'heavier' bits go to the stomach wll to be digested. Sometimes the kibble gets in the way.


I have heard that if you feed raw and kibble you should feed one meal
of raw and one meal of kibble. Is there any truth to this? I'm not
sure if he's currently doing this or not.

Nah, you can raw food to kibble, just don't add bones. Feed those separate.

Lew


And, another one that was answered by Mary Straus who used to be a moderator there but now owns the dogaware.com website and writes articles for the Whole Dog Journal http://onibasu.com/archives/kn/150921.html ....

Quote:
I've just started adding raw to my dog's kibble based on Lew's newsletter. She's 85 lbs but needs to lose a few - probably 6-8 lbs. I'm starting with 1-1/2 times the amounts listed for a 50 lb dog (listed in the newsletter). The amounts listed for a 50 lb dog are 1/4 c kibble and 1/4 c meat, 1 egg and 2 T of yogurt plus supplements. So based on my calculations, my dog should be fed 1/2 c of kibble and 3 oz of meat plus an egg and 3 T of yogurt, along with some supplements. That just doesn't look like much food at all.

Because different kibbles vary quite a bit in terms of their calorie content, what I usually recommend when combining kibble and raw food is to calculate how much of each you would feed if that were all you were feeding, then use a percentage of that amount based on how you divide the diet up.

In other words, if the kibble you're using recommends feeding 3 cups a day to a 78 lb dog, and you are feeding half kibble and half raw, then feed 1 1/2 cups of kibble, plus the raw.

Rule of thumb for feeding a raw diet is 2-3% of the dog's ideal body weight daily, which would be around 25-37 ounces a day. Again, if you're feeding half raw and half kibble, then you would feed half that amount, or 12-18 ounces a day. Since you want your dog to lose weight, I'd start on the low side and give 12 ounces a day.

So you're right, it looks like you're feeding a lot less than your dog needs (the newsletter amounts appear better suited to a 25 lb dog than a 50 lb dog). Increase the amounts to what I've listed above, and then keep a close eye on your dog's weight, adjusting up or down as needed. What you want is a slow, steady weight loss, no drastic changes. If you need to reduce the amount you're feeding, drop it about 10% at a time, then check his weight again in a couple of weeks and continue to adjust until you see a slow, steady weight loss, then stay at that amount.

Mary Straus
Pleasanton, CA
http://www.dogaware.com
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  #43  
Old August 24th, 2010, 09:21 PM
Mirela Mirela is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvie View Post
I am feeding her Origen.
Good choice
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  #44  
Old August 24th, 2010, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvie View Post
As many of you know we lost our beautiful Greta 7 week ago.

We have been approached by a Breeder who was getting rid of a 6 year old female who she was not going to breed anymore as she had new stock from Germany

We went to see her and fell in love. She is nothing like Greta which is good. This poor girl has never been off her property Hubby took her for a walk and she was so scared. She will need a lot of confidence building. But we are up for that.

In our last email with the Breeder she said that she would bathe her in the morning and that she was looking forward to going to her new home. I wanted to reply. No she isn't she would rather stay there you are ....ing
looking forward to getting rid of her. But I am being polite until we have her. We pick her up tomorrow.
wow this is really great dog..actually that's my favorite dog?
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  #45  
Old August 26th, 2010, 05:40 AM
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Thank you for all of your info Rainbow. It is helpful. I decided to go cold turkey and I am feeding her the kibble. She has started to pee and poo (although not in the right place yet) and loves the kibble, no problem with her eating.
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  #46  
Old August 26th, 2010, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvie View Post
She has started to pee and poo (although not in the right place yet) and loves the kibble, no problem with her eating.
wooohooo ! that's great news (other than doing business where she's not suppose to ) but they tend to do this when they don't feel 100%

we'll need new pictures soon btw
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  #47  
Old September 6th, 2010, 10:21 PM
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Sylvie - How's Breedie doing?
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  #48  
Old September 7th, 2010, 11:00 PM
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I agree, you shouldn't mix raw with anything else!

She's beautiful!!! And.. so are you for rescuing her!!
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  #49  
Old September 7th, 2010, 11:24 PM
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Bree as she is now being called is doing quite well. She looks to our old girl Shadow for protection. It is really cute. If Shadow leaves the room then Bree follows her.

Shadow seems to like her. We switched her from raw to Orijen and she seems to be doing well on the Orijen.

I will try to work on loading the pictures this weekend.
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  #50  
Old September 8th, 2010, 04:53 PM
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Sylvie,I am so happy for Bree,I am sure she'll soon realize,what a lucky girl she is and life for her,from now on will be wonderful(as soon as she starts pooping in the right place)
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  #51  
Old September 8th, 2010, 05:00 PM
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Thanks for the update Sylvie. Sounds like Bree (love it!) is going to be a wonderful companion once she has life at Sylvie's house figured out.
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  #52  
Old September 8th, 2010, 05:05 PM
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What I find amazing too is that they all figure out how to get along and each learn diffierent things from one another??? Shadow is a good girl to follow the ropes with!!

Hopefully Winston didnt teach her any bad habits last week....I think he is still looking for his ball!!
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  #53  
Old September 8th, 2010, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston View Post
Hopefully Winston didnt teach her any bad habits last week....I think he is still looking for his ball!!
Did he leave a ball here

Does he miss me a little
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  #54  
Old September 9th, 2010, 08:20 PM
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No no ball left...I was joking about Bree stealing his ball!

He always misses you guys you know that!! okay here is another sweet pic! I have to share!

good luck tomorrow!!!!!
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  #55  
Old September 10th, 2010, 03:26 PM
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Such a sweet pic.

And, I'm glad to hear that Bree likes the Orijen.
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  #56  
Old September 10th, 2010, 03:30 PM
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I'm surprised that nobody commented on the feeding raw and kibble together info that I posted. I'm going to repost it in a new thread in the Raw Food Forum as I'm interested to see other opinions.
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  #57  
Old September 14th, 2010, 08:46 PM
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Interesting that the raw and kibble together controversy has come up here. It's being discussed on another forum I visit and no one can come up with any science to back up the notion that they are bad together. Certainly the idea that they digest at different rates and that one holds up the other is disputed. Several folks seem to be feeding raw and kibble in the same meal just fine. I think it's going to be like corn in dog food, OK for some, not for others. Or the notion of switching foods gradually, again, required for some, not for others.
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