Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog training - dog behavior > Cat behavior forum - cat training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old July 13th, 2010, 12:21 PM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
Are you selfish? I would say that, but I wouldn't get ahead of yourself. Take it slowly. Better to get Gizzy well adjusted to his new home before introducing another cat. But knowing his record, it could just trigger his urge to spray.
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old July 19th, 2010, 09:03 PM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
Oh ya for sure. I know how moving can take a toll on cats and cause them stress. I will take it slowly and just wait for what life hands me when we cross that bridge thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old July 26th, 2010, 12:02 PM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
Just a lil update, kind of concerned:

Ok so we covered the crate back up with blankets, right? And Gizzy sometimes pulls the blanket into the crate for whatever reason he does. And I guess when I come home and I pull that out first instead of saying "hi" he hisses at me. Cats hiss when they are scared, so does he think my hand is someone else's hand? Or can there be a medical reason for him to hiss other than being scared/startled?

And if anyone has been hoping that we move to a bigger place soon, I thank you a lot! There is a chance that we may be moving!! My bf's grandmother fell at her house and later they found that she couldn't stand so she ended up going to the hospital and she broke her tibia and they found a heart murmur. So it turns out one of his uncles had a reservation for her at a home for about a month now and I guess this is the catalyst he was waiting for. So she'll be going to the home on wednesday, and there apparently isn't any rush to sell her house. So hopefully my bf's cousins won't want to live there and possibly we can live there instead. It's bittersweet and I am bracing myself for the ramifications of her reaction when she realizes she will never see her home again

However, IF we move there, we will still be renting and until I own a house, I feel it will still be best to crate Gizzy in order to minimize the risk of spraying especially in a house that is my bf's grandmothers whereas if it were my grandmother.

Now off to educate myself on dogs on this forum, because I am off for a week lol this move would prolly allow my bf to finally get his husky and that means getting HIM out to walk and exercise and get healthy! lol
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old July 26th, 2010, 03:25 PM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
So why don't you speak with Gizzy first and then let him out of his crate? and while he's out, then take out the blanket. Don't know why he's hissing---want my blankie in the crate with me? you don't say hi or speak to me? bored, and have to do something......who knows, but it doesn't seem as if he's startled, maybe more like mad or upset you're taking out the blanket after he spent a lot of time pulling it in there. Maybe he wants to see out? or wants to lie on it bunchedup (my cats like to do that). Does he pee on it? IMO I don't think there's a medical reason Gizzy is hissing. Most cats hiss because they are scared, startled or annoyed.

Am sure you'll find lots of advice on the forum re dogs, or Huskies in particular.

Sorry to hear about your bf's grandmother, hope she'll make a good recovery. As for her house, remember that saying "don't count your chickens before they hatch". Who knows what will happen there?
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old July 26th, 2010, 08:26 PM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
I usually speak to him as soon as I set my school bag down, but I see the blanket pulled in first and just go to pull it back out so he doesn't see Forest and therefore set him off again. The hissing seems new, as with him wanting to climb all over me and even plopping himself on my chest in between my laptop, it has been very nice for him to want to help keep my lap warm ! When he hisses I ask him in a nice voice why he is hissing and then he meows back as if he wants out, or can't get out fast enough. Other times he has hissed after being put in the crate at night time. Maybe he's getting tired of being put in there all the time, I dunno. Thanks for thinking of reasons tho

Ya we're just hoping right now, nothing is set in stone, but it can't hurt to visualize either...
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 08:02 PM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
I hate to be a pain but I feel like we're at the end of our rope with Gizzy.

We came home today to a smell that couldn't be ignored. We decided to clean the floor of the cage, but upon taking everything out of the cage to be able to pull it out, we came acorss his urine-soaked bed. So needless to say, that bed has gone down the garbage chute because I just don't know how to clean something that is covered in hair, litter and urine.

So as of tonight, he has no bed to sleep in. But he hasn't really slept in it for quite awhile now.

We are going to take him to the vet to rule out any illnesses before deciding whether to surrender him or not. If that happens, I don't think I will be getting another cat until Forest passes as to not stress him out and b/c my bf thinks cats don't need to be introduced which I do not have the energy to explain to him that they do...
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 10:49 PM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
I guess what I'm not clear on is how much time is Gizzy in the crate? Do you put Forest in another room and let Gizzy have livingroom to run around to burn off some energy in exercise? Do you play actively with him, using something like a teaser toy? Give him lots of loving? I know when he sees Forest he's stimulated to spray, and I know in your small apartment there isn't much room for juggling cats in the kind of situation you've got. Hissing a lot as you reported Gizzy doing in your previous posts in July is always a sign of unhappiness, annoyance or frustration. It will be a difficult decision to make whether to surrender him or not that's for sure. I don't envy the position you're in, but I'm sure you and your bf will come to a decision that will be the best for Forest, Gizzy and yourselves. All the best!
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 05:56 AM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
From about 2pm - 10pm during the week, he is out of the crate. Forest doesn't go anywhere. Forest has hairball problems so we have to watch him to make sure he doesn't vomit on the carpet. On weekends he comes out when we get up and if we go out then he goes back in, or if we stay home he stays out of the crate, unless it's meal time and he eats his food in the crate which he has trained us to do.

When the hissing started, a few days after he hide in his litter box whenever it's time for him to go in his crate. I don't know why he needs to hide inside his crate, I'm never angry or mad at him when it's crate time .

Gizzy gets a lot of pets when he comes out of the crate. He runs into my hand when he's out and if I take it away too quickly he will do a lil bite or swat at me, then when he's had enough head butting my hand he will walk all over my lap and finally snuggle up against me or half on my lap. I play when I can with him, but he's usually zooming around the room to even care about the toys I have for him to play with.

I hope the vet can help but also not be too difficult on the food issue.

Thanks catlover2!
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 12:38 PM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
Gizzy sounds like he's getting enough time outside his crate for exercise to really stretch his legs and give his muscles a workout and gets lots of attention. Maybe a special treat (something he really likes, piece of cheese or chicken) when he has to go in his crate would change his behaviour from hiding or hissing and make him happier about going in. His "bed" can be old (or cheap) towels or baby blanket, so that if soiled they can be washed easily.

As for Forest's hair ball problem, one way to eliminate that is to run the comb through his coat twice a day---sounds like a lot of grooming, but it isn't really and only takes a couple of minutes. Older cats often start to neglect their grooming, and most really appreciate having it done for them and not having to lick up and swallow all that fur.

I realize that this crate setup isn't ideal for an active Bengal mix, but does control and limit his spraying in your apartment to make it more livable for you and your bf. Hope everthing turns out well at the vets.

Don't know what you mean by vet "not be too difficult on the food issue." ??
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous

Last edited by catlover2; August 23rd, 2010 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Additional question
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 12:44 PM
14+kitties's Avatar
14+kitties 14+kitties is offline
150% PRO S/N
Starcastle Champion, V:force Champion, UFO Shoot Out Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Crazy Closet Champion, Railway Line Champion, Penguin Pass Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MYOB
Posts: 15,408
I hope you realize if you chose to surrender Gizzy at this point he will most likely be pts. Not many people want to take on a cat who sprays. I wish you would have taken me up on my offer months ago when I had a spot for him.
I will keep my fingers crossed for Gizzy. I am almost hoping the vet finds something wrong with him to justify the spraying.
__________________
Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 01:35 PM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by catlover2 View Post
Don't know what you mean by vet "not be too difficult on the food issue." ??
The vet we go to (and pretty much any vet around us) thinks dry food is what a cat should be eating. Especially for senior cats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
I will keep my fingers crossed for Gizzy. I am almost hoping the vet finds something wrong with him to justify the spraying.
That's what I'm hoping as well! Cuz I really don't want him to be pts either. And who knows how he will be around a strange family even if he is the only cat.

Why must everything go wrong when you don't have the money to fix anything? Soo depressed right now.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old August 28th, 2010, 10:06 AM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
Oh dear....any news? You've been in my thoughts and prayers. Hope everything works out for the best, whatever that may be for you all.
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old August 31st, 2010, 07:41 AM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
Thanks catlover2! You're an ! Matt (my bf) isn't mad anymore at Gizzy so I think the thought of giving him away is subsiding! It also helps that Gizzy is warming up to him each and every day! He climbs all over his lap, up his chest, head butts his hand and demands to be scratched and pet.

There is still the issue of him hissing whenever we are fixing the blanket on the crate but we just have to ignore it and speak baby/kitty talk to him to let him know there is nothing to be scared of.

And I bought Forest a Kitty Kong Zoom Groom and he LOVES it! He even knows when it's time to brush the other side! Hopefully this helps with his hairball problem !
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old August 31st, 2010, 11:17 AM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
Smile

Happy to hear Gizzy is happier and things are improving, especially between your bf's attitude and Gizzy. Glad to hear bf is happier and more positive with Gizzy who's certainly responding to him in an affectionate way and showing how much he appreciates the change. This sounds like one of my spays I had many years ago who held a grudge against my hubby for accidentally stepping on her. He never apologized to her for it, and she avoided him from then on and hubby ignored her and never talked nice to her. Finally I convinced him to try sweet-talking her after about 12 yrs! And she responded very much like Gizzy did quite quickly and ended up being his lap cat! So cat's can change if treated and talked to with respect and love. Hope everthing continues to get better from here on.

The Zoom Groom sounds like a fabulous grooming tool, I've seen them but first time I've heard how cats like them. Certainly sounds better than a wire slicker brush as the rubber teeth probably give a nice massage. My Devon Rexes shed very very little, but I occasionally run a comb through my girl's coat as it's a little thicker than my boy's.
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old September 1st, 2010, 02:38 PM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
Yes a cat is the worst animal to hold a grudge with because they can always pick up what you're feeling and take it up 1 notch lol and make you feel even worse!

Gizzy likes the Zoom Groom too! He usually doesn't like anything because of his skittish behavior, but when this comes out he just lays down on the spot!

So there may be bumps in the road with this whole crate thing but I'm glad I have you guys to vent to and the wonderful suggestions that keep coming!
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old September 2nd, 2010, 02:20 PM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
That's great to hear the improvement and we're always happy to help and and try and solve any problems, and we all learn from each other especially when you update so well to tell us what works and what doesn't. Great! I'm thinking that this thread has now become too long to read through from the beginning? If other questions arise, perhaps it would be better to start a new thread? All the best! now, Gizzy, you be a good boy!
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old September 2nd, 2010, 05:39 PM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
Agreed! See you in a new thread upon next update!
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old September 2nd, 2010, 11:02 PM
14+kitties's Avatar
14+kitties 14+kitties is offline
150% PRO S/N
Starcastle Champion, V:force Champion, UFO Shoot Out Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Crazy Closet Champion, Railway Line Champion, Penguin Pass Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MYOB
Posts: 15,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by catlover2 View Post
I'm thinking that this thread has now become too long to read through from the beginning? If other questions arise, perhaps it would be better to start a new thread? All the best! now, Gizzy, you be a good boy!
Really? Too large? There are other threads that are larger and people read them. Look at growler's CRF thread. Considering at this point it is basically three people, most of the time only two, I would think this thread is fine to keep going. That way all the info is in one place instead of looking all over to see what happens to Gizzy. JMO
__________________
Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old September 3rd, 2010, 01:58 PM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
So, who's supposed to end a thread? Is it the Moderator or the OP? I find a post as long as Growler's on CRF is too long to read all the posts, especially if I'm looking for a quick answer or don't have much time to spend on the forum. Just my
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old October 8th, 2010, 11:54 AM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
Just a quick Q: Per my "Found a cat" thread @ http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72963: what would the repercussions be if I were to shelter the cat in a crate in my bedroom, doors closed? Forrest meows all day everyday, so I don't know if that would upset the new cat at all or if Gizzy would sense anything amiss?? Or does this have bad idea written all over it? I don't want another cat, I just don't want to see this cat suffer the cold winter. But at least someone is feeding him something...

So this is what it feels like to be between a rock and a hard place
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old October 8th, 2010, 12:15 PM
mikischo's Avatar
mikischo mikischo is offline
Mickey, my angel
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Posts: 1,185
It is really quite impossible to predict what kind of reactions there would be. The fact that he would be crated would mean you could keep him as far away from the bedroom door as possible but I'm sure they would still sense that he was there even if he was quiet.

Do your other cats normally go in the bedroom?
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." -Pythagoras
"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different." -Hippocrates
"Let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

Kitties: Punky (13), Tweeky (6), and Sassy (7)

SweetMickey 1991 to May 24, 2009
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old October 8th, 2010, 12:36 PM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
You said yourself "I just don't want another cat", so why are you considering it? Yes, it would upset Gizzy & Forest to have an unneutered cat in your apt. Even if they couldn't see him, they could smell him. Yes, it has "bad idea written all over it". I know it's hard to see a cat suffer by being homeless, but I strongly recommend that you find a relative, friend that would be willing to foster, or contact some resuce groups outside of Toronto. I wouldn't jeopardize what gains you've made in Gizzy & Forest's relationship by doing this...you've worked too hard to have achieved some level of harmony and tranquility in your home.
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old October 8th, 2010, 12:41 PM
mikischo's Avatar
mikischo mikischo is offline
Mickey, my angel
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Posts: 1,185
I just read what Catlover2 posted on the other thread and she is absolutely 100% correct.

Given the issues you have had with your boys and the gains you have made in resolving them it is definitely not worth the risk of jeopardizing everything that has been accomplished. Hopefully someone else will be able to take this boy in.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." -Pythagoras
"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different." -Hippocrates
"Let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

Kitties: Punky (13), Tweeky (6), and Sassy (7)

SweetMickey 1991 to May 24, 2009
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old October 8th, 2010, 06:54 PM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
I don't want to keep him, I just don't want him to die from the cold. If I had a bigger house I could keep him and do proper introductions but that's not happening right now. He looks like he is fixed tho cuz his "things" look like Gizzy's does only a teeny bit smaller, but then again who knows.

If ppl didn't steal I could buy a cat igloo and put it there for him...
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old October 8th, 2010, 07:16 PM
Winston's Avatar
Winston Winston is offline
Mom of 3 precious Angels
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamilton Ontario
Posts: 7,068
Dollface if yon check the threads here or even contact 14+ I am pretty sure she has some information on how to make a cozy house for a kitty from rubbermaid containers, styrofoam & hay I think?

I agree with the others...you have too much work into the 2 you have now and I think you would be risking some real set backs.

Good luck

Cindy
__________________
Tabitha April 10, 1995 - August 23, 2013
Bomber April 10, 1995 - July 12, 2010
Winston Nov 15, 1999 - September 15, 2011
Sophie Aug 30, 2011

"UNTIL ONE HAS LOVED AN ANIMAL, PART OF THEIR SOUL REMAINS UNAWAKENED"
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
-Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old October 8th, 2010, 07:20 PM
Love4himies's Avatar
Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boating in the 1000 Islands
Posts: 17,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikischo View Post
It is really quite impossible to predict what kind of reactions there would be. The fact that he would be crated would mean you could keep him as far away from the bedroom door as possible but I'm sure they would still sense that he was there even if he was quiet.

Do your other cats normally go in the bedroom?
You are right, there is no way to predict, but I can guarantee you 100% they will know there is a cat in the bedroom.

My Jasper can smell an unnuetered cat from inside the house with all the windows closed and I have a very airtight house.
__________________
Cat maid to:

Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old October 9th, 2010, 09:20 AM
dollface's Avatar
dollface dollface is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 576
Ok thanks everyone! Not gonna take him in at all, but just want to try to build him a house/someplace warm to sleep. If I brought a can of food and left it there for him, opened, will only cats eat wet food, or will any animal just take it too? If that's the case, I would have to give it to him when he's there, right? There is a vet close by, should I take him to get checked out or something?
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old October 9th, 2010, 05:26 PM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
I'm glad you made the decision not to take him. Of course, it would be better if someone could take him and get him off the streets. If that's not possible, having him checked out at the vet and get him shots and neutered if he's not would be the next best thing. Thank you for thinking thinking to have him seen by a vet for a checkup, shots, worming, etc. that would be wonderful.
There are a lot of racoons in Toronto and yes they love cat food. As well as there are other stray homeless cats likely around as well. You can't guarantee that only this boy will get the food, if that's your intention. Cats are creatures of habit and routine and if you always went or someone did at the same time each day to feed, I'm sure he would be there waiting for food and probably some of his friends too. A waterproof box with shredded newspaper would give some insulation and warmth.
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:04 PM.