Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Cat health - Ask members * If your pet is vomiting-bleeding-diarrhea etc. Vet time!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 26th, 2010, 05:52 PM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39
How to help my kidney cat gain weight

Hello everyone!

I found this forum through a Google search. I have read several of the
threads regarding kidney issues. I'm still trying to learn what I need to.

Sampson was diagnosed with kidney disease 10 days ago. He has problems with his thyroid and takes 2.5 mg of Methimazole twice daily.

His blood work in April was fine, no significant elevation. The vet noted he had
lost 4 ounces from his previous visit 3 months before. I was feeding him, as well as my other 2 cats the Wellness Core dry food.

I changed the food to the Wellness canned. They didn't always eat that so
I occasionally gave Science Diet which they seemed to prefer more. No more
dry at all.

His next visit showed a loss of 7 ounces. The blood work shows a BUN number of 47 and a Creatinine level of 2.6. No crystals in the urine, his other blood work is normal.

He is not drinking or urinating excessively. He started the sub Q fluids, 150ml twice weekly.

I weighed him last night and he seems to have lost a few ounces from when he was in to get his first fluids a few days ago. I'm hoping my scale is wrong.

He does eat. I'm very concerned about the weight loss. My vet recommended the low protein food, but after doing research, I see that is not a good option. He will eat the Wellness, I will continue to give him that unless someone can suggest something better.

Also, is giving Renafood helpful? I want to stabilize his weight and keep him healthy for as long as I can.

I appreciate any advice.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 26th, 2010, 06:06 PM
Love4himies's Avatar
Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boating in the 1000 Islands
Posts: 17,754
So sorry to hear about your kitty .

Hopefully, sugarcatmom or growler will be along soon to offer you some advice. I would trust these two before my vet when it comes to cat nutrition. The one thing I do know that cats need protein.
__________________
Cat maid to:

Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 26th, 2010, 06:13 PM
NoahGrey's Avatar
NoahGrey NoahGrey is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,439
You should get a second opinion from a animal nurtrientist. Internet sites can offer alot of false information, and some people only listen to what they believe, but it might be wrong. Good luck.

Maybe it is better to have our vet observe your kitty for a few days.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 26th, 2010, 07:23 PM
14+kitties's Avatar
14+kitties 14+kitties is offline
150% PRO S/N
Starcastle Champion, V:force Champion, UFO Shoot Out Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Crazy Closet Champion, Railway Line Champion, Penguin Pass Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MYOB
Posts: 15,406
Chico2 also has a kitty with thyroid issues. Maybe between the three of them your kitty will benefit. I don't believe you can get any better info than from SCM or growler. They have a wealth of knowledge and personal experience. Sometimes it's better to do your own research and become knowledgeable too. That way you are not getting stuff shoved down kittie's throat that may do more harm than good. Just my
__________________
Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 26th, 2010, 08:24 PM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39
Thank you all for your support.

I have looked at several websites, read tons of threads. I agree that
there is misinformation out there.

It's so much to take in. I just want him to be happy.

I await the others to check in. I also wanted to add that he seems to
go to the little box right after he eats. Not sure if the food is just going
right through him or not. It's normally to urinate, he tends to poop maybe
once a day.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 26th, 2010, 08:27 PM
14+kitties's Avatar
14+kitties 14+kitties is offline
150% PRO S/N
Starcastle Champion, V:force Champion, UFO Shoot Out Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Crazy Closet Champion, Railway Line Champion, Penguin Pass Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MYOB
Posts: 15,406
The health gurus are normally on later at night. I'm sure they will pop by.
__________________
Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 27th, 2010, 02:46 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
Hello everyone!

I found this forum through a Google search. I have read several of the
threads regarding kidney issues. I'm still trying to learn what I need to.
Hi PumpkinPal welcome to the fourm & the CRF cat club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
Sampson was diagnosed with kidney disease 10 days ago. He has problems with his thyroid and takes 2.5 mg of Methimazole twice daily.

His blood work in April was fine, no significant elevation. The vet noted he had
lost 4 ounces from his previous visit 3 months before. I was feeding him, as well as my other 2 cats the Wellness Core dry food.

I changed the food to the Wellness canned. They didn't always eat that so
I occasionally gave Science Diet which they seemed to prefer more. No more
dry at all.
Glad to hear you've eliminated all dry food

For kidney cats I always suggest placing something under the food & water dishes to elevate them between 2-6 inches off the ground. Phone book, upsidedown canned catfood case box, block of wood, something to allow the cat to eat with their head above their stomach level, helps keep stomach acid in the stomach reducing nausea. I found it reduced strain on the neck as well & we want to use any advantage to encourage eating, just make sure the dishes can't slip off the "kitty table".

Are you meal feeding the canned or is it left out for munching during the day?

You can try increasing the amount of food offered, feeding more frequently - include a before bed meal will help with any nausea overnight between dinner & breakfast.

You can also tempt with a bit of treats on the food some shredded bits of cooked chicken, freezed dried treats like Purebites though some cats do start to demand extras on their meals

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
His next visit showed a loss of 7 ounces. The blood work shows a BUN number of 47 and a Creatinine level of 2.6. No crystals in the urine, his other blood work is normal.
How was his Urine Specific Gravity (USG from the urinalysis) prior to starting fluids?

T4 (Thyroid hormone) level stable compared to the last test?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
He is not drinking or urinating excessively. He started the sub Q fluids, 150ml twice weekly.

I weighed him last night and he seems to have lost a few ounces from when he was in to get his first fluids a few days ago. I'm hoping my scale is wrong.
Did they weigh him before or after giving fluids?

I take it you are bringing Sampson to the vets twice a week for his fluids? Have you considered/discussed with your vet doing them at home yourself?

It's honestly not as scary as it may sound, quite simple to do, and works out far cheaper when you purchase the supplies from a medical supply company rather than the vet.

Here's a great site that shows step by step how to give subqs: http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/weir.../catjuice.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
He does eat. I'm very concerned about the weight loss. My vet recommended the low protein food, but after doing research, I see that is not a good option. He will eat the Wellness, I will continue to give him that unless someone can suggest something better.
Wellness canned Turkey, Chicken, Beef & Chicken and Kitten formula have good phosphorus levels Try to stay away from fish varieties as much as possible they do tend to be higher in phosphorus.

Sampson will need adequate protein levels in his food to gain good muscle weight and slow muscle loss, therefore low protein is not what is important to look for in food, low phos is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
Also, is giving Renafood helpful? I want to stabilize his weight and keep him healthy for as long as I can.
Standard Process' Renafood is good as is their veterinary feline formula Feline Renal Support, helps to support the kidneys with natural supplements, my CRF grrl was started on Feline Renal Support a couple of months after her diagnosis 3 years ago.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I also wanted to add that he seems to
go to the little box right after he eats. Not sure if the food is just going
right through him or not. It's normally to urinate, he tends to poop maybe
once a day.
Most cats (most dogs too as a matter of fact) will elminate after eating, behavour that goes back to the littertraining/housbreaking time. It's not the food he's just eaten that's going right through him, just the schedule his body is on eliminating from previous meals.
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 27th, 2010, 05:43 AM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39
Thank you for your informative response.

I have elevated all the food dishes (he tends to eat from the others' bowls
often ) and the water dish.

The canned stays out all day. He tends to eat the majority of the first
feeding in the morning. I put out one 3 and a half ounce can split between
the 3 of them. I will open another can as they get hungry during the day
and into the evening.

I have used treats to give him his meds. So few are soft and I'm sure the one
I have been feeding (Whiskas) most likely isn't the best. I will get a package
of the PureBites.

The URG was 1.017. His T4 was 1.4. That's about what it was last time.
The vet is happy with his thyroid levels.

At the vet's, I weighed him before fluids were given. He was 11 pounds, 6 ounces. I've since been weighing him at home. He showed 11 pounds, 5 ounces early yesterday evening.

I began administering his fluids at home on Tuesday. I don't want to put
him through the stress of so many vet visits. He tolerated it ok, I think I
did alright. I used the pink, smaller needle. He sat well for most of it,then
decided to jump off at the end! The fluid sprayed everywhere. I'll keep trying,
he did get the full amount.

I have tried to stay away from the fish varieties. I noticed SCM posted
a link to some other foods the other day.

http://sites.google.com/site/felineh...kidney-disease

The pet store mostly carries the fish ones, but I did find the liver and
chicken. He seemed to enjoy that.

So sorry about your kitty. I'm happy to hear you were able
to share 3 additional years with her.

I've ordered the Renafood.

I didn't notice him going to the box straight away before, but I won't be
concerned if it's not a big deal.

Your suggestions are very much appreciated. I feel a bit better about
the situation now.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 27th, 2010, 11:04 PM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39
I also wanted to ask if there is anything I can do to keep interest in the
food.

With it sitting out during the day, he loses interest. So much of it gets wasted.
I'll open another can, he will eat a bit and then not want anymore.

I've heard about VitaGravy and baby food ( no onions or onion powder ). Are
these options or is there something better.

Now that it's gotten warmer out, the three of them have been eating less.
I don't want him losing any more weight.

Thanks again for all the help!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 28th, 2010, 02:06 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I have elevated all the food dishes (he tends to eat from the others' bowls
often ) and the water dish.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
The canned stays out all day. He tends to eat the majority of the first
feeding in the morning. I put out one 3 and a half ounce can split between
the 3 of them. I will open another can as they get hungry during the day
and into the evening.
How much is each cat eating per day?

As a rough guideline from Wellness http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/produ...ng-guidelines:

Quote:
Feed according to the age, size and activity of your cat.

For 3 oz. can:
For adult cats, feed 2 cans per 6-8 lbs. of body weight per day. Feed at room temprature and refrigerate unused portion. Your cat should always have access to clean fresh water.

For 5.5 oz. can:
For adult cats, feed 1 cans per 6-8 lbs. of body weight per day. Feed at room temprature and refrigerate unused portion. Your cat should always have access to clean fresh water.

For 12.5 oz. can:
For adult cats, feed about 1/2 can per 6-8 lbs. of body weight per day. Feed at room temprature and refrigerate unused portion. Your cat should always have access to clean fresh water.
What this very basically means is an 11 lbs cat should be eating roughly around 7-10 ozs per day, with allowances for age/activity level/caloric content of food etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I have used treats to give him his meds. So few are soft and I'm sure the one
I have been feeding (Whiskas) most likely isn't the best. I will get a package
of the PureBites.
Are you putting the meds into the treats or giving the treat after?

If you are putting the meds into the treat Greenies Pill Pockets might be a healthier alternative, or you could try cheese whiz - mould some around the pill

The Purebites are not a soft treat, it's freeze dried that allows it to be crumbled nicely to use as a topper on food or given as a treat not crumbled

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
The URG was 1.017. His T4 was 1.4. That's about what it was last time.
The vet is happy with his thyroid levels.

At the vet's, I weighed him before fluids were given. He was 11 pounds, 6 ounces. I've since been weighing him at home. He showed 11 pounds, 5 ounces early yesterday evening.
The USG is quite low, good thing he's already on fluids, help him to replace what he is loosing in urine.
T4 results are good, glad that is staying stable

Could be your scale, some may be calibrated differently or not as sensitive, or he might have had an empty stomah or bladder dropping the results a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I began administering his fluids at home on Tuesday. I don't want to put
him through the stress of so many vet visits. He tolerated it ok, I think I
did alright. I used the pink, smaller needle. He sat well for most of it,then
decided to jump off at the end! The fluid sprayed everywhere. I'll keep trying,
he did get the full amount.
Excellent Be sure to warm the fluids before administering & run the fluid out a little bit to remove any big bubbles - not to worry though if there are a couple of small air bubbles in the line

The pink ones are 18 gauge, you could go smaller either 19g or 20g depending on how comfortable you & Sampson are with the 18's. I felt the 18's were a bit big & the poke to hard on her skin, so I went with the Terumo Ultra Thin Wall 20g needles - the tip is sharper & the walls are thinner making the poke less noticable, but the flow about the same. Most vets use the 18g Monoject, some may have the Terumo, but a medical supply company/pharmacy is a cheaper alternative for purchasing supplies.

I always use "you're not done yet" or something along that line when requiring patience of an animal who would rather be somewhere else, for fluids or nail clipping or whatever. They sometimes tune out repeated "stay" command, then saying "that's it or okay you're done" will also give them a signal that you are really finished and they are allowed to leave.

Duffy was very good getting her fluids & would lay still on my lap, but she always seem to know when we were nearly done even when we changed the volume of fluids. When they get used to having fluids consistently their bodies will tell them they've gotten what they need and you may see some signs of antsyness, though some cats just don't like being restrained for the few minutes it takes .

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I have tried to stay away from the fish varieties. I noticed SCM posted
a link to some other foods the other day.

http://sites.google.com/site/felineh...kidney-disease

The pet store mostly carries the fish ones, but I did find the liver and
chicken. He seemed to enjoy that.
You can always see if a food can be ordered in for you - though many stores will require a commitment to at least a full case.

There is another list here: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html for this particular one looking at the phos (mg) per 100 kcal column you want a food that is around 230max and lower but still has quality ingredients.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
So sorry about your kitty. I'm happy to hear you were able
to share 3 additional years with her.
Thank you she would still be here if not for the cancer

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I've ordered the Renafood.
Are you working with a holistic vet?

If this is not coming through your vet be sure to mention it to them so they are aware of the additional supplements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I didn't notice him going to the box straight away before, but I won't be
concerned if it's not a big deal.
Just depends on how their day is scheduled

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I also wanted to ask if there is anything I can do to keep interest in the
food.

With it sitting out during the day, he loses interest. So much of it gets wasted.
I'll open another can, he will eat a bit and then not want anymore.
The unused food can be refridgerated, best if put into a glass dish not kept in the can. This way you can buy the bigger sized cans to save a bit $ that way, some cats are okay with straight from the fridge, other prefer it warmed a bit first - I wouldn't put it in the microwave though, place the dish in a bowl/sink of hot water for a couple of minutes.

Have you tried adding a 1/2-2 tsp of warm water to the food? Amount depends on how much food there is, and how the kitties like it w/water added. Adding a bit of warm water will "freshen" up the food that's left out & releases a bit more flavour which most kitties will follow their nose to the food, if it doesn't smell interesting they won't eat it. Also good for a kidney cat to get that little extra water in their food.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I've heard about VitaGravy and baby food ( no onions or onion powder ). Are
these options or is there something better.

Now that it's gotten warmer out, the three of them have been eating less.
I don't want him losing any more weight.
Don't know anything about the VitaGravy, but no onion babyfood is okay, no salt chicken broth is another option - this you can make yourself by boiling chicken in a pot of water do not add salt or anything else, if using bone-in it's done when the meat falls off the bone, remove chicken from water - any little pieces are fine to stay, allow stock to cool & add a bit to the canned food - you can always try a couple of small chunks of boneless chicken to start to see if that would entice them.

Just adding warm water, Purebites mentioned earlier, little sprinkle of parmesean cheese, teensey tiny pinch of catnip (doesn't work with all cats, but some it will stimulate the appetite a bit), bits of shredded cooked chicken - can use the boiled chicken from above stock receipe.

Some will respond better to bigger early morning & late night meals when its cooler with some canned left out during the day for snacking
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old June 29th, 2010, 04:27 AM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39
Once again, thank you for your help.

It's hard to gauge how much each is eating. I doubt it's 7 ounces, possibly
a bit less.

I was putting the pill inside the treat. It's a hard, little pink pill, just putting
in the food is a no go. The vet did suggest the pill pockets. If they are
ok to give him, I'll get some of those and keep the other treats to distract
my other two.

I thought the Pure Bites may not be soft. I used to give the Halo's Liv O Littles to my sugar kitty , they all loved them.

http://www.amazon.com/Halo-Littles-N.../dp/B00027CL5S

His weight results are up and down. I'm keeping on eye on it to make sure
there is no significant decrease.

I keep the fluids in the fridge as recommended by the vet. She says it's better because there are B vitamins in it. I do leave it out for at least an
hour before so it's not cold for him.

I'll check into the other needles, good suggestion. Today will be my second
try, hope I do better and he stays put.

I checked Binky's page. Odd, I thought the Healthy Indulgence was a
new product but it shows as last being updated in 2008. I want to
make sure I'm giving the right one. I noticed the Turkey and Duck flavor
is at 187 so I got a few of those. They like it! Unfortunately the other
two with numbers below 200 have fish flavors. Naturally, now they are
being picky and don't want to eat the other Wellness flavors now!

Cancer, terrible thing. I've lost 3 to it so I know how you feel.

I don't have a holistic vet. I absolutely will let my vet know about the
Renefood as well as the food he's getting.

I did try the water, didn't seem to make a difference. He loves the
baby food, so I'll keep with that. I notice it has cornstarch, I'm assuming
that isn't bad for him?

He loves cooked chicken, he'll gobble that right up.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old June 30th, 2010, 05:33 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I keep the fluids in the fridge as recommended by the vet. She says it's better because there are B vitamins in it. I do leave it out for at least an
hour before so it's not cold for him.

I'll check into the other needles, good suggestion. Today will be my second
try, hope I do better and he stays put.
It is Lactated Ringers Solution with added Vit B? or a different fluid formula?

I used to put the LRS bag, kept at room temp w/no add ins, inside a giant ziplock bag into a sink of hot water for a few minutes to warm the fluids up. Warm but not hot - can be tested like a baby bottle on your wrist. Cats will react differently to warm fluids as opposed to room temp or cold fluids, much more pleasant when warm, their internal body temp is higher than room temp so that should make a difference to his reaction to the fluids especially the first bit already in the line.

Place a light hand on his shoulders above the needle so he can shift positions but not escape, you also don't want him poking himself accidentally with the needle as he moves. Eventually most of them learn to wait patiently until they're done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I checked Binky's page. Odd, I thought the Healthy Indulgence was a
new product but it shows as last being updated in 2008. I want to
make sure I'm giving the right one. I noticed the Turkey and Duck flavor
is at 187 so I got a few of those. They like it! Unfortunately the other
two with numbers below 200 have fish flavors. Naturally, now they are
being picky and don't want to eat the other Wellness flavors now!
They may want it again in a couple of weeks, some cats need more variety in their diets than others to avoid food boredom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
Cancer, terrible thing. I've lost 3 to it so I know how you feel.

I don't have a holistic vet. I absolutely will let my vet know about the
Renefood as well as the food he's getting.
Thank you

Try as they might, don't give into the low protein/vet food hard sell, stick with healthy quality protein, low phos canned

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I did try the water, didn't seem to make a difference. He loves the
baby food, so I'll keep with that. I notice it has cornstarch, I'm assuming
that isn't bad for him?

He loves cooked chicken, he'll gobble that right up.
Cornstarch is not easily digested, I would look for Heinz Organics or Earth's Best Organic baby food, they both have limited ingredients, no extra fillers

Add tiny bits of the cooked chicken to the canned food, make it small enough or smoosh it together so he's not just picking out the good stuff .
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old June 30th, 2010, 07:28 AM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I keep the fluids in the fridge as recommended by the vet. She says it's better because there are B vitamins in it.
Instead of having the vet inject the vitamin B directly into the bag, a better idea is to get your own vial and inject each dose yourself into the administration port on the IV line. That way you can keep the vitamins fresher (they degrade when exposed to light - so store the vial in a dark place).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
He loves the
baby food, so I'll keep with that. I notice it has cornstarch, I'm assuming
that isn't bad for him?
See if you can find some Beechnut baby food. It contains only chicken and broth.
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old June 30th, 2010, 11:26 PM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
Instead of having the vet inject the vitamin B directly into the bag, a better idea is to get your own vial and inject each dose yourself into the administration port on the IV line. That way you can keep the vitamins fresher (they degrade when exposed to light - so store the vial in a dark place).
Not all of the IV lines have an injection port, so you would need to make sure you get the ones that do. The Braun/McGaw ones I was using did not, but they have another one that does. Also depends on where you are getting your supplies from & if they can get the ones with the port.
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 2nd, 2010, 11:38 PM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39
Thank you both once more for your helpful responses.

I've got the Lactated Ringers Solution, I don't think it has the injection
port. I'll look more into that.

I attain the fluids and needles from the vet. If I am injecting the B vitamins
myself, is there a specific kind and how much do I add on each administration?

I read in another thread about kitties becoming more ansy after a certain
point. Sampson did that this evening, I wasn't quite at 100ml. I'm assuming it's
ok to give the rest tomorrow? I want to make sure I don't give too much.

The Wellness Healthy Indulgence pouches have been successful. They are
eating a bit less, but still very interested. I found the Beechnut baby food
and mixed some in when they seemed a bit less interested. (After licking off
all the parts with the gravy. ) Did the trick, they all love it.

I spoke briefly with my vet about his progress. She was happy and had
no issue with the different food.

His weight seems to be stabilized. Sometimes my scale shows a slight gain,
sometimes the same as when he last went to the vet. Thankfully, no losses.

Another question: He is licking the base of his tail like crazy. I've had the vet
look at it a few times, she didn't notice mange or anything of that nature. He's
completely licked off most of the hair on one side. Any suggestions?

Your support is so very much appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 3rd, 2010, 02:20 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I've got the Lactated Ringers Solution, I don't think it has the injection port. I'll look more into that.

I attain the fluids and needles from the vet. If I am injecting the B vitamins
myself, is there a specific kind and how much do I add on each administration?
All fluid bags have an injection port, which is the one your vet is using to put the vit Bs in the bag, different from the one mentioned above. If you have an injection port on the IV line it sticks out (sort of creates a y shape in the line) & is close to the needle end. There's a picture here just above 1/2 way down the page http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/weir.../catjuice.html

The kind & amount of injectable B Vit should be discussed w/your vet as they will have the proper dosing amounts as to what Sampson is getting now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I read in another thread about kitties becoming more ansy after a certain
point. Sampson did that this evening, I wasn't quite at 100ml. I'm assuming it's
ok to give the rest tomorrow? I want to make sure I don't give too much.
Sounds like you are also giving 150mL twice a week? Is this the first time Sampson was antsy at 100mL? If he seems uncomfortable over that amount, drop it down to 100mL three times a week, he'll still get the prescribed amount each week. Mention to your vet how he was acting & that you are giving 100mL three times a week instead, this way she'll have a record of his fluid schedule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
The Wellness Healthy Indulgence pouches have been successful. They are
eating a bit less, but still very interested. I found the Beechnut baby food
and mixed some in when they seemed a bit less interested. (After licking off
all the parts with the gravy. ) Did the trick, they all love it.

I spoke briefly with my vet about his progress. She was happy and had
no issue with the different food.
Which flavours & do they have the phosphorus listed on the pouch? It's not on their website, may need to email them for that info.

Excellent

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
Another question: He is licking the base of his tail like crazy. I've had the vet look at it a few times, she didn't notice mange or anything of that nature. He's completely licked off most of the hair on one side. Any suggestions?
Any evidence of fleas? Flea allergy?

Does the licking happen more frequently after a certain flavour of food? Food allergy perhaps?

Has he ever had Vit B shots before? any reaction then?

Does he seem stressed in the house?
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 3rd, 2010, 04:21 AM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39
Thanks, still trying to learn everything!

I'll speak with the vet after the weekend.

Yes, it's 150ml twice weekly. The first time I did it, he tolerated about
120ml. Last night we didn't get to 100ml. I'll give the 3 times weekly a try
and let the vet know about the schedule.

The flavor I'm using is the Turkey and Duck.

http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/produ...nteed-analysis

The phosphorus level isn't listed. I was going by the values shown on
the thread you posted before. According to Binky's page, the level is
187. If it looks like I have the wrong info please let me know and I'll
contact Petco.

No fleas or allergies that I know of. He's been doing this on and off for
awhile now. I haven't noticed him just doing it right after he eats, it's
different times during the day and evening. He was doing it before
the fluids.

Stress could certainly be a factor. He doesn't always get along with
my youngest (Pumpkin). Is there anything I could put on his tail maybe
to sooth or help heal it?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 3rd, 2010, 07:55 AM
Twocents Twocents is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
Another question: He is licking the base of his tail like crazy. I've had the vet look at it a few times, she didn't notice mange or anything of that nature. He's completely licked off most of the hair on one side. Any suggestions?

Your support is so very much appreciated.
Hi PumpkinPal,

Some ideas - could be a flea allergy or problem with anal glands.

Two of our cats have had problems with anal glands filling up & becoming uncomfortable. I took them to the vet to have them expressed. I've read that you might be able to do it yourself, but I'd want the vet to double check that it's not infected or abscessed first, as well as to show me how. I read cats can be harmed if it's not done correctly. I'm not too keen to do it myself, however, as know first hand that anal gland fluid is extremely putrid stuff, even in tiny amounts.

In my experience, our vet never looked at our cats & suggested that anal glands might be the problem , so I asked if it might be the reason for their discomfort. After expressing the glands, the vet or vet tech would agree that they had been full.

Try searching online for feline anal glands. Some info Franny Syufy: http://cats.about.com/cs/healthissues/a/analglands.htm

Best wishes,

__________________
What part of "Meow" don't you understand?

We can be part of the problem or part of the solution. Inaction is part of the problem.
Please advocate for animals.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 4th, 2010, 04:48 PM
chico2's Avatar
chico2 chico2 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 26,594
Pumpkinpal,my 14yr old Rocky also has HyperT and is on the same amount of meds as your Sampson.
My trick for pilling him,I crush the pill in a soup-spoon add some food and stir it up,Rocky will readily lick it all up.
I do this 3 times a day and after the spoon he gets his dish,raised on a thick book.
Rocky would not eat before I raised his dish,I too feed mine Wellness canned,no dry at all.
I also have 3 cats and they get about 3/4 of a large 12,5 can in the morning,the rest at lunch,then they get a 5,5oz can at night.
Rocky unlike your Sampson,does have a very good appetite,but is not gaining weight,before he was diagnosed with HyperT,he weighed 16lbs and now a skinny 11lbs.
My vet thinks Rocky might either have kidney problems or cancer,his calcium level is too high.
He put Rocky on Prednisone 1 0.5mg pill/day and he'll get some more tests in a few weeks.

I always know how much my cats are eating and who is,I have stainless steel dishes with different color bottoms.
Also if I put any food in the fridge,I put the dish in a bowl of hot water,like Growler said,my cats do not eat cold food from the fridge,I guess they cannot really smell the food if it's too cold.
Rocky drinks a lot of water,always has and I am he does not have cancer,or kidney-problems.
Good luck with your boy,I know how worrisome it is
__________________
"The cruelest animal is the Human animal"
3 kitties,Rocky(r.i.p my boy),Chico,Vinnie
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old July 4th, 2010, 07:04 PM
gardensgrow gardensgrow is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11
Very very great and informative thread!!!

Thanks so much for so much good information and insight. My hyperT kitty (Nimmie) lab results are showing definite signs of kidney desease as her thyroid (T-4) gets under control.

Growler, you are a genius!! Nim has always loved catnip to roll in and lick at when sprinkled on her corrugated card board scratchers. A very tiny pinch of catnip from the freezer onto her food perked up her cat nose. She downed the (previously refused) liquid thyroid med in her scant teaspoon of tuna in seconds and went on to scarf up most of the wet food she had picked at all day.

Thanks so very much to all.

Sharon and Nim
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old July 5th, 2010, 12:12 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
The flavor I'm using is the Turkey and Duck.

http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/produ...nteed-analysis

The phosphorus level isn't listed. I was going by the values shown on
the thread you posted before. According to Binky's page, the level is
187. If it looks like I have the wrong info please let me know and I'll
contact Petco.
Looks good I was looking under Wellness not Healthy Indulgence

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
No fleas or allergies that I know of. He's been doing this on and off for
awhile now. I haven't noticed him just doing it right after he eats, it's
different times during the day and evening. He was doing it before
the fluids.

Stress could certainly be a factor. He doesn't always get along with
my youngest (Pumpkin). Is there anything I could put on his tail maybe
to sooth or help heal it?
Is he licking the fur off or pulling it out? Pulling fur out is a sympton of HyperThyroidism.

What is the condition of the skin in that area? red, inflammed?

Has the vet seen the area either this time or when he's done it before?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gardensgrow View Post
A very tiny pinch of catnip from the freezer onto her food perked up her cat nose. She downed the (previously refused) liquid thyroid med in her scant teaspoon of tuna in seconds and went on to scarf up most of the wet food she had picked at all day.
Awesome
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old July 9th, 2010, 05:08 AM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39
Sampson seems to have lost a few ounces again. He's eating pretty heartily. I'm giving the sub Q's 3 times a week, 100ml each time. I've gotten the Renafood but haven't given that yet. Sprinkle one capsule once a day?

He licks his tail most of the time, but I have noticed some pulling. There is no redness or irritation. The vet has looked at it a few times but seemed to think it was caused from stress.

He doesn't have any foul odor back there so I don't think it's the anal gland. He's had this off and on for over a year now, maybe longer. It's just at the base, no where else. I can take a pic if that would be more helpful.

He seems ok otherwise. Activity level is the same, no excessive urination or drinking.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old July 11th, 2010, 01:13 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,272
For Renafood give 1 in breakfast & 1 in dinner

For the weight - have you tried Wellness Kitten or Wellness Chicken canned food? Those two are dense in calories but still in the good range for phosphorous

Add a couple of extra treats during the day - cheese etc, try to tempt Sampson to eating a bit more per meal

And for the fur - it might just be stress does he have a spot he can go to relax/snooze that Pumpkin doesn't go?

Did it start around the time he was diagnosed w/HyperT? If he was doing it then in reaction to the hormone levels, he may be doing it now as a repetitive motion stress reliever, unless he is showing signs of HyperT again? I know he is at a good spot now w/the T4 number.

Did you change laundry degerent/cleaning solutions/fabric softener/carpet cleaner around the time it started?
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old July 13th, 2010, 04:19 AM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39


Thanks once more for your continued advice.

I started him on the Renafood yesterday. I was only able to get
tablets, capsules weren't available. Crushed it up in a few pill pockets,
he ate them right up.

The chicken Wellness was one of the foods I was giving him when he
was losing weight. I did get some of the kitten food. He didn't seem
to eat as much today. He loves cooked chicken, I'm guessing I could give
him more of that during the day as well?

I'm initiated into the finger poke club! Was changing the needle and it slipped,
went right through my thumb.

His weight seems good, not much change. He showed 12 pounds yesterday.
That 5 ounces always is fluctuating. Fingers crossed the Renafood
helps him go up a bit.

The fur licking most likely is stress. I was thinking of getting one of those
DAP diffusers, maybe that will calm Pumpkin down a bit. We live in a small
space, so unfortunately Sampson doesn't have too many options. He does
go under the bed, Pumpkin won't bother him long when he goes under there.

It's been so long, I honestly don't remember when it started. It could have
been before he was diagnosed. Thankfully, his T4 numbers have been
good for some time.

I've been using the same detergent/cleaners for years. (no perfumes, dyes,
etc. )










Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old July 15th, 2010, 12:38 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I started him on the Renafood yesterday. I was only able to get
tablets, capsules weren't available. Crushed it up in a few pill pockets,
he ate them right up.

The chicken Wellness was one of the foods I was giving him when he
was losing weight. I did get some of the kitten food. He didn't seem
to eat as much today. He loves cooked chicken, I'm guessing I could give
him more of that during the day as well?
Crushed in the Pill pockets is good, glad he's showing no objections

Yup cooked chicken works great as a treat, you can also try putting tiny bits in his catfood, make the bits little so he's not pulling them out & just eating them & not the food , also smooshing them into the canned works for that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
I'm initiated into the finger poke club! Was changing the needle and it slipped,
went right through my thumb.
Ouch!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinPal View Post
The fur licking most likely is stress. I was thinking of getting one of those
DAP diffusers, maybe that will calm Pumpkin down a bit. We live in a small
space, so unfortunately Sampson doesn't have too many options. He does
go under the bed, Pumpkin won't bother him long when he goes under there.

It's been so long, I honestly don't remember when it started. It could have
been before he was diagnosed. Thankfully, his T4 numbers have been
good for some time.
I've never used a DAP diffuser but some members have found success with them - worth a try anyways if there is stress in the house

It's good that Sampson has at least that one area to go if he feels the need for some alone time
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old August 12th, 2010, 09:45 PM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39
Sampson has lost weight again.

He has been looking slightly thinner near his hindquarters, my scale
is all over the place with the numbers so I took him to the vet.

The tech put him at 10 pounds 10 ounces. His last weight a few months
back was 11 pounds, 5 ounces.

He's been doing well with all the treatments. I'm still giving the sub Q 100ml,
3 times a week. He gets his thyroid pill twice daily and the Renafood morning
and evening. His appetite has not waned, he still eats a fair amount.

There has been no vomiting, excessive thirst or urination. He gets some
slight soft stools now and then, no blood, etc.

He's not lethargic or hiding. He's often more playful than he was months
back.

I'm fearing the worst. He was fine for awhile, what's going on?

The vet wants to see him in 2 weeks. I made the appointment for a bit
before that, don't want to wait too long.






Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old August 18th, 2010, 01:42 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,272
Is Sampson showing any signs you would relate to HyperT flaring back up?

Have you tried increasing his daily food intake? I know that can be hard sometimes with more than 1 pet.

How was he with the cooked chicken added on his food?
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old August 18th, 2010, 03:44 AM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39
I'm not sure if it's the Hyper T. His only symptom seems to be the
weight loss.

He eats voraciously. If he is standing by his food dish, I empty almost
a full packet of the Wellness. His drinking and urination have not increased.

I do pay close attention as much as possible to see how much he eats.

He'll eat as much chicken as I can give him. Appetite certainly isn't an
issue.

He's not vomiting at all. When I go to give the sub Q, I can feel the bones
almost poking through his neck. Other than that, he looks thinner through
the back haunches. His fur is still shiny. He is not grooming excessively.

We are going into the vet on Monday. I'm hoping it's the thyroid and not
something much worse. He seems to be absorbing the fluids ok.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old August 18th, 2010, 10:25 PM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,272
When he's finished his chicken & pouch is he looking for more food? or does he just go off to do his thing like he's had enough food?

I would keep giving him added chicken & increase his Wellness portion - start with say 1/4 pouch see if he finishes it, if he's still looking for more you can slowly increase the portion size.

for Monday's visit.
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 01:19 PM
PumpkinPal's Avatar
PumpkinPal PumpkinPal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 39
Sometimes he does want more food which I give him including the
chicken.

We went to the vet this morning. She did a full body exam, got
a good palpation of his stomach. She did a few x rays which came
back clear. She did say his heart was slightly smaller, but not concerned
as there is good blood flow. She also did a consult with a specialist.

I'll get a stool sample for her to examine. Right now, she thinks he's
just not eating enough. She also is an advocate of feeding wet food,
but she said that giving him a bit of dry might help. He has lost another
ounce in 2 weeks.

She suggested the Purina Pro Plan Senior, that is what the specialist gives
her older cat. I am concerned of course about the phosphorous numbers.

I've got some Wellness Core Dry, he gobbled that right up.

I did tell her about the Renafood, she had not heard of it. Could this possibly
be part of the problem? I know the thyroid is a large factor. She did
not feel that blood work was needed at this time.

Any further suggestions would be appreciated as always. He's full of energy and seems to be doing well, just so concerned about the weight
loss.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crf, kidney, weight loss

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 8.33%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 PM.