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  #31  
Old June 18th, 2010, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
I know it's different there, the State I live in here would be very civilised in comparison to where that guy lives, but given that this fellow has added to your shelter woes in a major way it just seems strange that no-one mentions that he should not have kept that many. Obviously they were breeding, they can't have been cared for properly and I don't think the fact that he took in strays is a good thing unless he was having them desexed. It is nonetheless very sad that he died, tragic for this huge pack of dogs and pups.
The small town Cochrane, where people from my town have to travel 90 minutes on the hwy to catch the train to go to Toronto has another train called The Little Bear and another one I think called The Big Bear going north. Both go up to the James Bay coast to Moosenee and Moose Factory which is a Native Reserve. If u look north on a map u can see how far up James Bay is.

The Little Bear is one the natives use to go back and forth into Cochrane...it's been many years since I've been up to Moosnee, but I went as a tourist...and took the Big Bear...I would say it took a good 6 hrs as the tracks are so bad. And there is nothing but forest, swamps, millions of black flies and mosquitoes, lots of bears, wolves lynx etc.

The native people do not keep their dogs in their homes they tie them outside or just let them roam...when the dog population gets too large they start shooting them. I'm sure that some of the ones get shot at found that man south of them.

So I think Jean was a hero for trying and help these dogs. Cause if he didn't they would of all been bear food.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris21711 View Post
TQ - My mistake I asked my Daughter last night if there was a branch in Cochrane and was told "no"...from the FB group I got the impression that the OSPCA were in "talks" to see how they could assist. Maybe it is just "talk" though .....Also on FB one poster mentions the plight of the 100+ sled dogs in Quebec last year, that OUR own BenMax was involved with and how smoothly and efficiently that evacuation went.

I'm surprised that the UAN or Noah's Wish have not got involved

Goldfields - I don't think you quite understand the situation....This man lived deep in the bush, with no road access at all. He wasn't a man of means. How so many dogs ended up living with him, I can only surmise that the dogs were strays from trappers originally and they bred causing the population to expand....It isn't a matter of whether it was a good or bad idea to try and care for that many dogs, nobody can care for 200 dogs properly, he did what he could, he cared.

TQ - One option for catching the more timid dogs would be a Ketch Pole. If they could get a Livestock Vet on board that would be great, they have tranquilizer guns.

I that some organization will help out big time
The OSPCA has known about this man and his dog for years as I have found out tonight and they did nothing about it. To take some of the dogs or to help the man.

Our vet here in my town travels 90 minutes by hwy once a week to look after the animals in Cochrane,,,so Cochrane doesn't even have their own vet! It is smaller than our town and our town has only about 8,000. Ours is the largest town around, the next biggest is 2 hr hwy drive away. So Northern Ontario towns this far north are spread out and don't have much available.

I paid over 250 for spaying and neutering my cats. I don't know even if Jean could have afforded to get them fixed how that man could get his dogs into cochrane on the day that the vet was in town. And if he did he would have to stay in Cochrane for a few days cause the train doesn't run every day unless it's tourist season.

I found out today that 4 dogs were caught today...3 females 1 male.

Chris, I was thinking of one of those poles. When I worked at the Human society in Chatham the dog catcher used them. They might have worried they would scare the other dogs as they watched one of their fellow dogs get caught by that pole. I don't think it would of taken too long for the dogs to figure out that pole was bad news.
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  #32  
Old June 18th, 2010, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
I have followed the link now, read the part of Our Journal about this man, and I think no differently. You tell me where this was going to end up if he hadn't died? Just how big could that pack have become? If the public there condone what he's done then you shouldn't complain about how many dogs end up in shelters. We are all going to die, I don't think it's fair on others to leave this sort of chaos for others to deal with.
If the public there condone what he's done then you shouldn't complain about how many dogs end up in shelters.

But there IS NO PUBLIC where he lived! It was just him and the dogs and dense forest and swamps for miles around. He lived in the wild and u can't understand how wild it is unless u live up here. I live in a town but am surround by bush and people get lost in our bush up here and die! And I live in the civilized part...Jean didn't!

He died because he went back into his home to rescue more puppies!
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  #33  
Old June 18th, 2010, 09:50 PM
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[QUOTE=Tundra_Queen;929232]

The native people do not keep their dogs in their homes they tie them outside or just let them roam...when the dog population gets too large they start shooting them. I'm sure that some of the ones get shot at found that man south of them.


QUOTE]

That, if nothing else explains why the OSPCA might put this in their too hard basket. They could get an unending supply of dogs to try and look after . And trying just enables it to go on IMO. It must be a nightmare working for the OSPCA or shelters in Canada.
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  #34  
Old June 18th, 2010, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
We have our share of hoarders here too, chico2, no doubt full of good intentions, but because looking after vast numbers is beyond two people, let alone one, what generally happens is that the dogs become disease ridden, injured in fights, totally matted if they are long coated dogs, and of course a lot have temperament problems. And here, because it's not a 7 hour trip into the wilderness to do it, our RSPCA do act. They swoop in and confiscate the dogs, putting those to sleep that they think they have to. Finding homes for the rest.
If dogs have been able to be rescued, it means that those male dogs he was given could have been taken out of there, doesn't it? Instead he let them breed. More poor neglected dogs, which is very sad. Love4himies asked

Why wouldn't the SPCA help out his man and at least neutered the males , why, why, why????

Good question isn't it? Maybe he should have dumped those males on their doorstep, like people do here. Tie the dog to their fence and walk away. It is preferable to them reproducing.
There is no OSPCA up north here! I don't know where the closest one would be...so there is NO DOORSTEP to dump them on up here! Also there is NO SHELTER...just volunteers working full time at other jobs and giving their free time to just help and foster dogs when they can in their own homes and feed them. They try to raise money in the community to help pay for the spaying and neutering and vaccines. The people trying to rescue these dogs ARE VOLUNTEERS! The OSPCA are a PAID government agency and they are no where around up here helping with these dogs.

Debbie
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  #35  
Old June 18th, 2010, 09:57 PM
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[QUOTE=Goldfields;929240]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra_Queen View Post

The native people do not keep their dogs in their homes they tie them outside or just let them roam...when the dog population gets too large they start shooting them. I'm sure that some of the ones get shot at found that man south of them.


QUOTE]

That, if nothing else explains why the OSPCA might put this in their too hard basket. They could get an unending supply of dogs to try and look after . And trying just enables it to go on IMO. It must be a nightmare working for the OSPCA or shelters in Canada.
There is a lady in Cochrane Pamela who started this rescue...she is just a person who got tired of waiting for the OSPCA to do something! Instead of sitting around like the OSPCA she got organized,,,got a few people and just went up to help the dogs!
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  #36  
Old June 18th, 2010, 10:02 PM
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Just 30 miles from me a person could get lost in the Grampians mountain range and die too, but I know what you mean, it's true wilderness where you are. Point is that when do you reach a point where it's best to start culling animals? Your shelters and the OSPCA can't be any different to here, there must be a limit to what they can do. One man alone should consider the what ifs. What if I die, what if I fall and break a leg, what happens to the dogs then? Those feral dogs are now having shocking deaths, a bullet might have been kinder. What I think is terribly sad is that he must have felt so alone with this increasing burden on his shoulders, not at all a happy life.
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  #37  
Old June 18th, 2010, 10:46 PM
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Why are we still going back and forth on the what have's, could'ves, should'ves, would'ves? The fact is this man lived in virtual wilderness. No civilization around for many, many miles. Not just 30 minutes by car, not just a little hike. Wilderness! Canada is a huge place. There is only a very very small part of it that is actually habitated. The rest is basically barren with small pockets of humanity. Even those of us who live in the densely populated areas have trouble comprehending the sheer areas that are empty. Empty! No people. Or very few. Those that are there make their own laws. There is no one near by to govern. And who says that is a bad thing. Unless you are in a situation such as this one.
That bullet that you are talking about him using on his dogs to stop the breeding probably went on wild game to supply food for them. Sometimes it isn't about hoarding. Sometimes it's about trying to do what's right. Sometimes when you try to do what's right you get bogged down in it. Not his fault if there was no one there to help. Sometimes you are so busy trying to deal with every day life and living you forget the "what if's". Sad if you live in a perfect world. He didn't.
Now there is a wonderful group of people trying to rescue those dogs that they can. I am sure the rest will be culled quietly. Please let's let them get on with what they are trying to do with no more censure.
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  #38  
Old June 18th, 2010, 11:14 PM
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Oh, I agree 14+ that he was totally bogged down. I reckon though that dogs would have been suffering long before he died. It's a bad situation made worse by his death and I hope they act fast to end their suffering one way or another.
I did read more on that site and this is interesting, someone DID do the maths.

One female and her offspring can produce 67,000 puppies in just six years.

Wow!! And I thought a thousand dogs in 10 years. Wrong!!
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  #39  
Old June 18th, 2010, 11:42 PM
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Pamela posted tonight and they have caught 10 dogs today and have room for 3 more...but I imagine they are back in cochrane now. The train comes in at 11 pm.
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  #40  
Old June 19th, 2010, 01:05 AM
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Brilliant, if they even get 10 at a time it's a miracle, given the terrain they could escape into.
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  #41  
Old June 19th, 2010, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
Just 30 miles from me a person could get lost in the Grampians mountain range and die too, but I know what you mean, it's true wilderness where you are. Point is that when do you reach a point where it's best to start culling animals? Your shelters and the OSPCA can't be any different to here, there must be a limit to what they can do. One man alone should consider the what ifs. What if I die, what if I fall and break a leg, what happens to the dogs then? Those feral dogs are now having shocking deaths, a bullet might have been kinder. What I think is terribly sad is that he must have felt so alone with this increasing burden on his shoulders, not at all a happy life.
I am sure that had crossed his mind many times, however there was nobody to help him out and there is not one doubt in my mind that he did what his heart told him to do.

Our OSPCA has millions of dollars to shut down a no kill shelter in Toronto because they didn't like the living conditions of the animals there, but they don't have a penny to help out those who are of little means financially and are trying to give cats and dogs a better life. They get our tax money so IMO, they should be there to help out EVERYBODY who needs it.

Not sure if you have ever been to northern Canada, but it is true wilderness, it is so hard to comprehend the 100's of miles of pure wilderness unless you have been there. For hundreds and hundreds of miles it is so very sparsely populated, let alone have a vet handy. For this reason, I have sympathy for this man and don't compare him to other hoarders (which is a mental disease) who have easy access to vets and shelters, some even to low cost spay/neuter clinics.
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  #42  
Old June 19th, 2010, 08:17 AM
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Great news TQ!!! I hope other rescues can step up now and help the rest.
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  #43  
Old June 19th, 2010, 11:20 AM
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No, Love4himies, I haven't been to Canada but do know how rugged (and beautiful) it is. I suppose I just can't get past all the misery, sickness and injuries those dogs would have suffered even before this man sadly died. Since he died it must have been like Hell for them. Seems like you have a massive problem in your country with uncontrolled dog breeding. I can't imagine an end to it.
We call Oz the lucky country, though often we say we are over-regulated. Well, if over-regulating means forcing people to look after dogs the way they do here then I'm all for it. We have vets outback who look after dogs in aboriginal communities, very strict Council rules in the civilised places, a really great RSPCA, and a Code of Ethics for Canine Council members that ensures in part that you don't mate bitches too young, or too often. Not a month goes by that there isn't a short list of people who've thought they could get away with breeding pups too often, which results in a $300 fine and suspension of membership, with worse to follow if it happens again. Lots of people might hate it, but I think it's great.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 11:39 AM
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And yet Australia has many animal rescues as well.
Every country has it's issues. Some worse than others. I don't think Canada is the worse but we have a long way to go. This man did not fail his dogs. The system failed him a long time ago. Maybe that is one of the problems we have in being so big. I don't know. I don't have the answers.
Now can we please let it rest and go back to hoping and praying as many of these dogs that can be rescued get rescued? That is what TQ started this thread for.
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  #45  
Old June 19th, 2010, 12:02 PM
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Does anybody know if a TO or National newspaper has been notified of this story? I think it would be a great story and hopefully get donations and more help in the rescue.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 12:10 PM
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Would love to hear an update if any? Reading through the journal you have to wonder if they will be making another rescue attempt! All I can say is god bless the person that felt it in their heart to help these dogs that are clearly suffering. As human beings that all love animals we should really be more concerned about the plight of these suffering dogs than what we all beleive in. Which IMO is the dogs! Cant change things now! regardless of who is right or wrong, BUT we can help educate people and teach them and try to help people like Jean Luc!

It was so nice to read about how well behave these dogs were! Yes apparently some ferel type but mostly genuinely looking for help! It broke my heart to read about the remaining dogs waiting to be rescued hearing the train whistle and going absolutely crazy and thinking their master was coming!

RIP Jean Luc some do care and will take care of your dogs!
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Old June 19th, 2010, 12:13 PM
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RIP Jean Luc some do care and will take care of your dogs!
I believe he is looking down smiling at the angels who are desperately helping his dogs
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Old June 19th, 2010, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tundra_Queen View Post
I was thinking of one of those poles. When I worked at the Human society in Chatham the dog catcher used them.
Sorry to get off topic...but dogcatcher??? SERIOUSLY!!! Sorry but we are called animal control officers, or Animal Protection Officers or Animal Services Officers. Most people in this field find that term very disrespectful...sorry to say. Also...please be properly trained before using a ketch-pole. When not trained, it could lead to injury or death.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 12:56 PM
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TQ,thank's for the update,very good news
Hopefully most of those dogs will find homes and if some are too wild,humane Euthanasia is better than being killed by a bear.
A great big hug to Pamelathere really are people with a heart
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Old June 19th, 2010, 04:50 PM
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Sorry to get off topic...but dogcatcher??? SERIOUSLY!!! Sorry but we are called animal control officers, or Animal Protection Officers or Animal Services Officers. Most people in this field find that term very disrespectful...sorry to say. Also...please be properly trained before using a ketch-pole. When not trained, it could lead to injury or death.
Gee I'm sorry I used the wrong name! That is what they were called when I worked there...yes animal control offier.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 04:57 PM
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Hi

Trying to update u... Pamela writes:
Make sure you listen to CBC radio between 6:00-6:30 on Sunday evening!!


This was posted today:

Rescue efforts for the dogs at Wurtele are still ongoing. Volunteers are returning to the site to trap the remaining dogs. We head out by train in the morning from Cochrane and return on the train late in the evening. Volunteers help, transport, set and bait live dog traps, then transfer any trapped dogs to crates a...nd transport the crates to a a box car. Can you be a part of the group of volunteers who will return to Wurtele on three seperate days?

The dates are Monday June 21st, Wednesday June 23rd, and Friday June 25th. Volunteers must be 18 years of age. We require one individual per team to hold an FAC and firearm, which we bring as a precautionary measure against bears. The crew will meet at the ONR train station in Cochrane at 8:30AM and could return in the evening between 10pm and midnight depending on the train schedule that day.

Our last trapping rescue crew returned on Friday June 18th with an uplifting 10 dogs! Some of these being pregnant females therefore preventing more litters of puppies being born in isolation. The efforst that day brought the total rescue total to 45 dogs. Help us add more!

Contact Lydia at 519-312-7650. Please leave a message if you do not reach me and I will return your call.
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  #52  
Old June 19th, 2010, 05:51 PM
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I sent a request to the United Animal Nations asking if they could help....I received this answer. Keep your fingers crossed that they can help out.

Hi Chris,



Thank you very much for your e-mail, I am sending it to our Emergency Management Team. They will review the situation and get back to you as soon as possible.



Best wishes and have a wonderful weekend!



Sincerely,



United Animal Nations
P.O. Box 188890 • Sacramento, CA 95818
(916) 429-2457 - phone
(916) 429-2456 - fax

(800) 440-3277 - toll free
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  #53  
Old June 19th, 2010, 06:14 PM
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Thanks Chris, Maybe u could let Pamela know that u sent it? Just so she is aware, might keep her spirits up too if she know that people are trying to help them as they all must be exhausted trying to catch these dogs and keep things organized too.
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  #54  
Old June 19th, 2010, 06:14 PM
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Great news. Its pretty bad when we have to go outside of the province for help..since the organization and worse head office that is suppose to help animals, are obserlete.

As for shooting the bears. Don't agree with it...besides these are black bears, more often then not, would run from humans then attack. I live in bear country and camp regularly in the bush. It is all about educating yourself about the species.
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  #55  
Old June 19th, 2010, 07:45 PM
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I suspect they bring the guns for the noise factor, NoahGrey. Black bears don't always run--they're extremely curious. I've been approached twice now--and I've only ever met two bears on the ground. My high-pitched yelling is not impressive (I think it takes on an almost hysterical tone in those situations ), but an air horn or a pistol makes enough noise to get a bear's attention and send it packing.

Does anyone know how many more dogs might be out there?
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Last edited by hazelrunpack; June 19th, 2010 at 07:50 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 08:07 PM
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We get black bears coming into town all the time too. I am not a fan of guns, but if I had to go up to mile 26 I would be taking a gun, not to shoot a bear, but to shoot up in the air to scare them. Even when I take Mindy for a walk in the park across from us I'm always cautious of bears.

If there aren't much berries in the bush at this time and there probably isn't as it is still very early in the season and a lack of rain, bears will be around looking for food.

The volunteers are opening cans of dog food and the smell is what is getting the dogs to come out of the bush. If a bear is in the area they would be coming out of the bush too to investigate and I know I wouldn't want to meet a black bear face to face!
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Old June 19th, 2010, 08:11 PM
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hazel, I have just asked how many dogs might still be up at mile 26 and I'll let ya know if I get an answer.

Debbie
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Old June 19th, 2010, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra_Queen View Post
Hi
Can you be a part of the group of volunteers who will return to Wurtele on three seperate days?

The dates are Monday June 21st, Wednesday June 23rd, and Friday June 25th. Volunteers must be 18 years of age. We require one individual per team to hold an FAC and firearm,

Two questions. Are any of you going? And, pardon my ignorance, what is a FAC?
I wondered would they catch more if someone could actually stay at his house/cabin for a few nights so the dogs got used to them being there?
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Old June 19th, 2010, 09:22 PM
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Goldfields

FAC...has something to do about firearms..probably firearm license.

I'm not healthy enough to go.

There is no cabin left up there as far as I know it all burnt to the ground in the fire that Jean died in.

They thought about staying in tents but because of the bears up there it is not safe.
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Old June 20th, 2010, 12:33 AM
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Oh, yes, the fire. Wasn't thinking. I guess if volunteers get up there often enough and feed them they will be more trusting anyway. Wish I was there, I'd be at the train station bright and early. I hope they get a good result again.
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