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  #1  
Old May 14th, 2010, 10:55 PM
jfmcrazy jfmcrazy is offline
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Neutering complications - worried

My Buddy was neutered on wed 5.5.10. The first night when we brought him home he was totally out of it. I was so worried that I used an infant medicine dropper to get water into him. He never moved, just stayed larthargic the whole night. I had noticed that his scrotom looked swollen (about the size of a tennis ball) and he was really bruised near/around his penis. The next day, he was not much better, still out of it, not really coming to. It wasn't til later that night that he began to show "life" again. I had to still give him water with the dropper, and hand fed him cheese, meat and other things he liked, as he wouldn't really eat either. Well, on the third day, we took off his cone for a little while. When we didn't see him, he had ripped out a few stitches. We put the cone back on, and using the cone, he finished the job of ripping out the remaining stitches. This past wed, when the swelling began to get really bad, and he was beginning to bleed, we brought him back to the vet. He did another surgery, not quite sure what he did exactly, other then close him up and he gave us some antibiotics. He began to swell again, and then yesterday, began to bleed, alot (IMO). We never took the cone off of him this time, and hand fed him all the time. Today, when you touched his one leg, he cried out very badly, and began to really bleed. We took him to the vet first thing, and he "milked" the blood out, saying this was normal, but it had backed up, and that we should do this too. Now, only 10 hrs later, he's back to where he was this morning. I am so worried. This just can't be normal. I've never had a dog fixed before, just used to cats that rebound in no time flat. Today when we left the Vet, he told us to bring him back on tomorrow (Sat). But we've decided to bring him somewhere else. Has anyone else ever had a dog have this kind of complications after neutering?
Oh, he does eat/drink a little if we hand feed him, but we again cannot touch the one leg without him crying out. We were also not given any kind of pain meds for him, or told what/how we could address any after pain.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 11:02 PM
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LavenderRott LavenderRott is offline
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Ummmm, yeah. NO!!!!

Take him to a different vet. A neuter is a fairly simple, straight forward procedure that doesn't involve the leg at all and most certainly should not cause leg tenderness. I have never, in 30 years of owning (and speutering) dogs, heard of having to drain blood from the incision.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 11:19 PM
pugsrule pugsrule is offline
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I would definitely take him to a different vet. I did have some complications with one pug, but he was about 5 yrs old when we rescued him, and it is a lot harder on an older dog. He is also paralyzed in the back legs, so he scooted on the "balls" and they became very inflamed. He finally burst a small hole in one testicle, and the dried blood could escape, and then he healed up quite quickly after that. the blood there was very dark, but if you are seeing bright red fresh blood, you have a problem that should be looked at sooner rather than later.

On some dogs they may need anti-inflammatory to reduce the swelling, which also encourages them to move around more, which helps the swelling also.
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Old May 15th, 2010, 04:30 PM
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kathryn kathryn is offline
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Hi jfmcrazy, I work in a spay/neuter clinic down in south jersey. I can tell you that it is a common complication for older/larger male dogs to get a scrotal hematoma. That's why I always recommend having a dog neutered before they have a chance to get too big

Please seek a second opinion. Feel free to PM me if you need any help since you are somewhat local.

Do you know what kind of meds he is on? Usually cephalexin works very good for post-op infections in spays/neuters. Also if your dog is in pain like that even my shelter would likely put him on some sort of anti-inflammatory (such as rimadyl). It's pretty insane that the vet is making you come back all these times, not giving you a direct answer and since this is a private practice he really should be medicating your dog a bit better.


Also, if you have any way of doing so, if you could post a picture of the surgical area I can give you just a general medical opinion, but of course I am not a vet, but have no problem comparing it to some other cases I have observed.


Hope your doggy feels better soon!
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Old May 16th, 2010, 01:10 AM
jfmcrazy jfmcrazy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathryn View Post
Hi jfmcrazy, I work in a spay/neuter clinic down in south jersey. I can tell you that it is a common complication for older/larger male dogs to get a scrotal hematoma. That's why I always recommend having a dog neutered before they have a chance to get too big

Please seek a second opinion. Feel free to PM me if you need any help since you are somewhat local.

Do you know what kind of meds he is on? Usually cephalexin works very good for post-op infections in spays/neuters. Also if your dog is in pain like that even my shelter would likely put him on some sort of anti-inflammatory (such as rimadyl). It's pretty insane that the vet is making you come back all these times, not giving you a direct answer and since this is a private practice he really should be medicating your dog a bit better.


Also, if you have any way of doing so, if you could post a picture of the surgical area I can give you just a general medical opinion, but of course I am not a vet, but have no problem comparing it to some other cases I have observed.


Hope your doggy feels better soon!
Well, we did bring him back to the original Vet. Until this occurred, we've never had a problem with him. He really is a great vet. I think, however, the word has gotten out about him. He's open 7 days a week, you don't need an appt, and his fees are at least 50% if not more less then most vets. Alot of rescue organizations use him (ALS and more) This I know for a fact, as I used to go to someone else. You can call him 24/7 as he lives right above his clinic... He's always available. I've been going to him for about 10 years now...He really does care about the animal. He has not charged me for the 2nd surgery nor the additional office visits, only for the meds.
As for Buddy.. today was a much better day. No bleeding, the swelling is beginning to go down, but he still is favoring his one leg. Buddy has been on Amoxicillian (250mg) 2 times a day since last wednesday, and today he put him on Previcoxx (227mg) 1/2 pill once a day. He seems to be brooding because we are keeping that stupid cone on him for precaution, and his appetite has improved. I gave him can of dog food (we don't ususally give him moist food though), and he ate it all up, plus drank alot of water. He did a slow walk with my husband, and has urinated fine. We think the worst is over, and I thank God for all of you here. I was so besides myself with all of this going on, and not having any experience at all with the neuturing of a dog. We are basically a cat family (currently having 3 as well), but have always had a dog. However, we've never fixed any of our dogs, just our cats. Its so amazing how fast a male and even a female cat rebounds after being fixed in comparison to a dog. I hope this picture comes out. I took it with my camera phone.
He did yelp when I gently picked up his leg to photograph this, but he is taking slow walks with my husband. We have to urge him to get up, but we believe getting him up and walking is better then moping around.
I will definately keep everyone here posted... You all have been a big help.
julz
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  #6  
Old May 16th, 2010, 11:56 PM
jfmcrazy jfmcrazy is offline
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UPDATE
Buddy is doing so much better today. No bleeding, more life and enthusiasm, and is getting around so much better. We are still keeping the cone on him when we cannot monitor him (he still wants to keep licking his wound). But overall... WOOO HOOO, he's almost my old (well not really old.. not quite 2),but he's my Buddy once again!
Thank you everyone for your advise and support.
julz
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Old May 17th, 2010, 12:20 AM
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MyBirdIsEvil MyBirdIsEvil is offline
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Uh, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but that incision doesn't even appear to be in the correct place, and it's HUGE compared to what I've seen any of my vets do. Maybe that's just because it's been reopened and closed though?

I understand liking your vet, but you really do need a second opinion. Just because a vet is a good person and cares about animals doesn't make them competent, and I know this from personal experience unfortunately.
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Old May 17th, 2010, 01:32 AM
jfmcrazy jfmcrazy is offline
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I think it may also look so huge because of how close I tried to get to make sure the pic was clear. And this is where he ripped it open as well, and had to be redone. The swelling is gone, there are no lumps, nor anymore bleeding, I think, because of my total inexperience to having a dog neutured, I may have paniced as well.

I grew up with multiple cats in my life, with an occassional dog, which we never fixed (we had both male and female dogs). We only had our cats fixed, and they are "up and at em" in no time flat. Never had to cone any of them, never had any complications, and this particular vet has fixed about 5 of our cats over the years as well.

As Buddy is now doing really really well, and is walking well, is very happy to see us, and only mopes around when we have to put the cone on him. When the cone is not on, he's playful, as my husband told me tonight, is back to "pooping him out" on their walks... so everything is basically back to normal.

But I do know, that I will never ever every neuter a dog again. They sure do not heal, react as well as a cat does, and need alot more after care then a cat as well. There really is no need for me to neuter any of my pets, as they are never allowed outdoors (dog only on walks or in yard when we are in there too). The cats get fixed only to prevent their marking the house. I do not believe in allowing my cats to go out doors. I rescue them from outdoors and make them indoor cats. I love my furry family members, and to have them suffer in any way, is not acceptable. I am just so happy that Buddy is back to his old self. It was a scary thing for my husband and myself.

But like I've said, I really thank everyone here for their advise and help. I really believe it helped me through it all, and get answers to questions I had. This is really an awesome place, and I am happy I found it.
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Old May 17th, 2010, 01:18 PM
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Dr Lee Dr Lee is offline
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I am sorry for everything that you and Buddy have had to go through the last few days.

I know there is some concern as to what went wrong and whether it was the vet's fault. Without being able to see neither Buddy nor his chart (and not having been there) it is impossible to say. I will however give you my observations from what I see. Short answer: Such complications can occur under the best of circumstances.

Let's start with what is normal or at least common.
1) The scrotal hematoma is not an uncommon complication in adult dogs. Most dogs do not have this occur but some dogs appear predisposed to it. Luckily, time will take care of it. Cold compresses help.
2) The prescrotal incision in the picture appears consistent with a reclosure of an incisional site. The edges are not aligned or perfect, but when the incision has come open and needs to be reclosed - this is how it will look.

What is not common.
1) The prolonged recovery is unusual. Most dogs are fairly "normal" the next day and our biggest problem is usually keeping them from bouncing off the walls like normal. With that said, some dogs have a more difficult time with anesthesia than others. This unfortunately occurs can happen no matter who the vet is.
2) Fees 50% or less than other vets. Quality medications, surgical supplies, equipment, etc. costs money. "A cook can only be as good as his ingredients." There are many possible legitimate reasons but that is a drastic difference.

A couple of questions:
1) Was an IV catheter used to provide fluids to Buddy throughout both procedures?
2) Was pre or post anesthetic blood work performed?

I hope that this experience with Buddy does not steer you away from neutering another dog. Buddy's experiences are not typical. These type of complications can occur with cats too. It is important to remember that these complications (prolonged recovery, hematomas, second surgeries,etc.) are not likely and usually do not happen all together. All of these complications do happen with all vets and sometimes in combination - the key is to keep them as rare occurrences. If you have more information, I will be happy to look at it.

I am glad that Buddy is feeling better. Keep us posted.
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Old May 17th, 2010, 03:39 PM
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MyBirdIsEvil MyBirdIsEvil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Lee View Post
I hope that this experience with Buddy does not steer you away from neutering another dog. Buddy's experiences are not typical. These type of complications can occur with cats too. It is important to remember that these complications (prolonged recovery, hematomas, second surgeries,etc.) are not likely and usually do not happen all together. All of these complications do happen with all vets and sometimes in combination - the key is to keep them as rare occurrences.
I agree. I've had many animals neutered and spayed, and complications DO happen periodically, but that's not a reason to not neuter. Younger dogs do do better, so it's best to have them neutered earlier, but we've had older dogs neutered also with absolutely no complications. My mother in law's dog was neutered after she inherited him at about 10 years old and he healed great. I've also known many people who neutered dogs at older ages and they did just fine. Rescues, in fact, often neuter older dogs.
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Old May 17th, 2010, 05:12 PM
jfmcrazy jfmcrazy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Lee View Post
I am sorry for everything that you and Buddy have had to go through the last few days.

I know there is some concern as to what went wrong and whether it was the vet's fault. Without being able to see neither Buddy nor his chart (and not having been there) it is impossible to say. I will however give you my observations from what I see. Short answer: Such complications can occur under the best of circumstances.

Let's start with what is normal or at least common.
1) The scrotal hematoma is not an uncommon complication in adult dogs. Most dogs do not have this occur but some dogs appear predisposed to it. Luckily, time will take care of it. Cold compresses help.
2) The prescrotal incision in the picture appears consistent with a reclosure of an incisional site. The edges are not aligned or perfect, but when the incision has come open and needs to be reclosed - this is how it will look.

What is not common.
1) The prolonged recovery is unusual. Most dogs are fairly "normal" the next day and our biggest problem is usually keeping them from bouncing off the walls like normal. With that said, some dogs have a more difficult time with anesthesia than others. This unfortunately occurs can happen no matter who the vet is.
2) Fees 50% or less than other vets. Quality medications, surgical supplies, equipment, etc. costs money. "A cook can only be as good as his ingredients." There are many possible legitimate reasons but that is a drastic difference.

A couple of questions:
1) Was an IV catheter used to provide fluids to Buddy throughout both procedures?
2) Was pre or post anesthetic blood work performed?

I hope that this experience with Buddy does not steer you away from neutering another dog. Buddy's experiences are not typical. These type of complications can occur with cats too. It is important to remember that these complications (prolonged recovery, hematomas, second surgeries,etc.) are not likely and usually do not happen all together. All of these complications do happen with all vets and sometimes in combination - the key is to keep them as rare occurrences. If you have more information, I will be happy to look at it.

I am glad that Buddy is feeling better. Keep us posted.
Buddy is totally back to normal, but really hates the cone we still keep around him. We are not going to remove it as a precaution until its time to have the stitches removed. The last thing I want is a repeat of what he did the first time.

A little history of Buddy. We adopted him when he was 8 months old. He is a Golden Labrador/Hound mix (and boy oh boy... does that hound part come out... he's a talker! lol) He was a rescued/abused dog. He was so bad, that for the first 3 months we had him, we had to have him medicated for anxiety. You couldn't move, close a drawer, anything without him freaking out. His tail was always tucked between his legs, and his hears were always pulled down as he carried his head like he did something bad. He wouldn't walk on a leash, and I had to carry him up and down my stairs to my yard to do "his business", and that was ONLY if there were no children/cars/people out. Anyone outside, and he would freak out. The meds worked that (this same vet) gave him.

I know I had signed the contract to have him neutured, and if it were not for this issue, I would have done it earlier. But I was not about to do something to him when he still had security issues. We wanted to make sure he felt safe, and knew we would never leave him. It took almost a year with us (a year this mid June) before we felt we could proceed with him getting fixed. His world is really only my husband, me and our cats. He has come to accept, as long as one of us are in sight, others that come to our home. He is never far away from one of us. He also a "late bloomer" in my opinion, as his "puppieness" is just coming to head.

We do not know the extent of his abuse, but it was, and still is a long road to walk. I do not know if this has compounded this issue or not. He has become a very loving dog, trustful of only my husband and myself, is becoming social with other dogs (my cats beat him up for being too rough) but he keeps going back for more.. Loves my little wenchette cat, and she will never hesitate to put him in his place when he is misbehaving.

He is back to his talkative (argumentative when it comes to me.. very pushy he is..) self, happy to see us, and just being his old self. It has definately been one heckava experience, one that I will definately have to think about should the situation ever present itself again...

I thank you Dr. Lee for chiming in, and you have totally relieved any leftover stress/worries both my husband and I were having. You offer such a valuable service here, and I can see that you are very appreciated for your effort here. Please keep this going, as this kind of forum is about the only place many seeking answers will turn to. Your service here cannot be valued more. Thank you.
Julz
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  #12  
Old May 17th, 2010, 10:01 PM
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Dr Lee Dr Lee is offline
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Thank you Julz. I truly appreciate it.
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