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  #31  
Old April 20th, 2010, 05:47 PM
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I checked the blind carefully for red squirrels and/or snakes this morning before I entered it.

Snakes really are fascinating to watch, chico! And most of them (around here, anyway) are shy and retiring. I'm feeling pretty privileged to have seen this beauty!
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Old April 20th, 2010, 08:03 PM
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DoubleRR, I suppose because so many of our snakes aren't constrictors, they'd need venom. Someone mentioned Copperheads. I wonder if it's the same one we have here? I've had a couple of close shaves with them. I was walking backwards out from under a loft, dragging a hose(this was at a stud I worked at), and as I backed across the gravel in front of the stables I turned my head to see where to step up onto the path, and there was a copperhead, reared up ready to strike! Just one more step I reckon. Another time I was loading hay onto the tractor and found I'd picked up a bale with a copperhead coiled up on top of it, so it was in between my hands as I held it. I just quietly put it down. LOL. Because I'm not scared of them, one time when walking the boss's two Afghan Hounds with another girl along beside a channel, when my dog stepped over something, I looked, saw it was a red bellied black and stepped over it too, telling my co-worker to look out for the snake. Well, no kidding, for the rest of the walk she was nearly walking in MY shoes. Poor thing, I shouldn't laugh when I will admit to my own fear, and that's big hairy Huntsman spiders. I'd rather get bitten by a dog, bitten or kicked by a horse, than have a big spider get on me. LOL.
Getting back to our Browns. They don't seem to have to have much excuse to bite. If humans or stock stand on them, bail them up, or get between them and where they are going, fair enough, but a friend, when young, was just quietly sitting on a stool, milking a cow , and he got bitten.
DoubleRR, have you any idea how old Delilah is, or the age they can live till? I imagine that huge Brown I saw would be a very old snake.
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  #33  
Old April 20th, 2010, 08:43 PM
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Goldfields, I think they're different copperheads.

This is what ours looks like: http://www.marietta.edu/~biol/biomes...heads_5968.jpg

When I searched Australian Copperhead another snake came up, and it didn't appear to be a pit viper.

Notice the triangular head and holes in front of the eyes (the pits), in the U.S. version. They are a pit viper like all but one of our venomous snakes (The Coral Snake)
Coral snakes look very similar to a native scarlet king snake and milk snake, which are non venomous and more common.

Pit vipers also have slanted eyes. The eyes in the first pic were apparently dilated for some reason or another. http://www.hiltonpond.org/images/Copperhead02.jpg
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  #34  
Old April 20th, 2010, 08:48 PM
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Both that copperhead and the king snake are absolutely breathtakingly gorgeous, MBIE!
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  #35  
Old April 20th, 2010, 08:59 PM
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A lot of king snakes tend to be pretty striking (that milk snake is also a king snake).

They also tend to be very docile and generally easy to care for, therefore common pets.

I've owned all kinds of snakes and my mexican king snake (shiny black with white specs) was one of my favorites. He liked to go in the aquarium. He'd sink under the water and sit with his tail wrapped around a decoration and watch the fish. Never tried to eat any though.
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  #36  
Old April 20th, 2010, 09:02 PM
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Are Mexican King Snakes usually water critters? Must have been fun to watch him watching the fish!
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  #37  
Old April 20th, 2010, 09:19 PM
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Oh, no, our Copperhead is nothing like yours, what a fabulous looking snake that one is. The coral snake doesn't feel a need for camouflage, does it? Ours have to be camouflaged or the kookaburras will get them. Those 3 snakes you mentioned are very alike, I mean amazingly so. Does it mean they are related? It's such a strange colour combination too.
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  #38  
Old April 20th, 2010, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
Are Mexican King Snakes usually water critters? Must have been fun to watch him watching the fish!
They generally like to swim I think. I've seen them on nature shows swimming around in rivers and stuff. They will eat aquatic critters such as frogs and get in the water to cool offs or help molt.

Actually a lot of snakes will swim when it's hot out. I've commonly seen black rat snakes swimming around in the water, as well as racers and a lot of other species.
King snakes do seem to be more water oriented than some others though.

Quote:
The coral snake doesn't feel a need for camouflage, does it? Ours have to be camouflaged or the kookaburras will get them. Those 3 snakes you mentioned are very alike, I mean amazingly so. Does it mean they are related? It's such a strange colour combination too.
It provides more camouflage than you'd think. When the banding is mixed in with various plants they're pretty hard to spot. They tend to hang low to the ground and not out in the open much. They are very elusive. (That goes for both the coral and king snakes). If they are spotted though the colorful pattern may alert predators to the fact that they are venomous.

The coral and king snakes are not related. It is possible that the kings are colored like a coral snake in order to confuse predators into thinking they're venomous.
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  #39  
Old April 20th, 2010, 10:35 PM
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In answer to your question, Goldfields, Delilah is 6 yrs of age. With good care, and no unforeseen problems she should have several more years to go. They can live to past 20 yrs, the average is between 10 and 15.
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Old April 20th, 2010, 10:54 PM
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Our red rat snake lived 11 years until some idiot left the door to the cage ajar and he escaped . The person did not have permission to be in there, and apparently when the snake moved they freaked out and didn't shut the door all the way. We had him since he was a hatchling.

Apparently one of my dad's friends found him dead a couple of years later, outside. I'm surprised he even lived that long in southern Ohio, which is not part of their natural territory.

Actually he had escaped once before, years before that, and luckily someone a couple of blocks away that liked snakes found him in the street and took him in . They didn't know what species he was but knew he wasn't native to that area so figured he was a pet. One of our friends was at the persons house and remembered our red snake was missing and called us and it ended up being him. He had a fat belly and had obviously been hunting while he was out .
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  #41  
Old April 21st, 2010, 12:27 AM
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Gee, DoubleRR, that's not long, is it? I thought it might be double that age span, but then I haven't seen their growth rate.
Wonder why our deadliest snakes here aren't out to alert predators that they are venemous? They are such drab colours that they blend in. One of those little mysteries of nature.
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  #42  
Old April 21st, 2010, 08:50 AM
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O wow MyBirdIsEvil--I might be a little ballistic if someone let her out. She would survive summer here if not run over--but not winter unless she found a somewhat heated space. Her little home has a tricky locking mechanism that kids cannot easily see, which is nice, and is attractive enough to be part of the kitchen cupboards--end of the counter has a space under that is just right for her habitat to fit into--under where the phone stand is.

Hehehe Don't come to my house if you have an overwhelming fear of snakes--you might trip over the dachshund or a cat and fall into the Rhodesian in an effort to escape while the budgie flew around your head yelling at you--even my parrot fish will bash against the top of his aquarium to be involved in a ruckus.
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  #43  
Old April 21st, 2010, 09:14 AM
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Hehehe Don't come to my house if you have an overwhelming fear of snakes--you might trip over the dachshund or a cat and fall into the Rhodesian in an effort to escape while the budgie flew around your head yelling at you--even my parrot fish will bash against the top of his aquarium to be involved in a ruckus.
One big happy family!

That's sad about your red rat snake, MBIE
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  #44  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 10:13 PM
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Lots of great snake pictures Here are some of a big hognose that was hanging around my house a couple of years ago. First really big one I'd seen here, though usually every year I see young ones, (which is a really good sign, since they're one of the "species at risk")

Hazel, I don't know if you have the same snakes there as I do, but around here snakes with orange/red bellies are either northern redbelly snakes or ringneck snakes. Both are smallish snakes and the redbelly is brown with a creamy spot on each side of it's neck and it can have darker brown stripes running the length of the body, like the picture you posted (not sure if that was what you referred to as a brown garter snake, can't see if that one has a red/orange belly or not). The ringneck snake is slate gray with a creamy ring around it's neck.
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 10:22 PM
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I forgot to post one that showed the full size of the snake. Oh, btw, the young ones usually do have a much more vibrant pattern, but the pattern seems to fade as they get bigger/older.
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  #46  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 11:01 PM
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Cool pics, Gail!!!! That looks like a western hognose? The eastern hognose is a little different, not so heavy in the body and not so upturned a nose

The brown snake I showed is slightly lighter on the belly but is for sure a brown (not a garter). Definitely not an orange belly...but I think we have northern orange-bellied snakes here. I've just not seen one for ages.
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  #47  
Old April 23rd, 2010, 11:33 PM
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Wonderful photo's, Gail. Very impressive.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 01:19 PM
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Thanks for the pictures. I too love snakes. I remember while out on a call, this family from India (who had just moved to Canada) wanted me to kill this garter snake. I told them that I wouldn't be doing that. Geesh..I was there for about 40 mins trying to get it through their heads, that they couldn't just kill it and to LEAVE a alone. I left shaking my head. It's sad that we mistreat what we are afraid of, instead of educating ourselves.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:59 AM
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Cool pics, Gail!!!! That looks like a western hognose? The eastern hognose is a little different, not so heavy in the body and not so upturned a nose
We only have the eastern ones here (this is just a very big one) and they're on the list of species at risk, along with several other snakes, turtles and other species. Around my house seems to be a hotspot for some of those species though, every year we see hognose snakes, Blanding's turtles and a couple of times I've seen 5-lined skinks as well.

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Wonderful photo's, Gail. Very impressive.
Thanks! I'm not really much of a photographer but once in a while I get a lucky shot. This snake wasn't in a big hurry to leave so I laid down on my belly in front of it for some of these shots.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 01:48 PM
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Wow, Gail! Your eastern hognose looks really different than ours! You have quite the assortment of reptiles there! We have Blanding's turtles near here but they're on the threatened list.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 04:02 PM
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Gail,beautiful snake,I did not even know we have those in Ontario.
If I saw it,I'd probably think it's a Cobra
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  #52  
Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:19 PM
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Gail,beautiful snake,I did not even know we have those in Ontario.
If I saw it,I'd probably think it's a Cobra
They range throughout Ontario but are not particularly common in most areas. Like several of our reptiles they are listed as "at risk" and sitings of them should be reported to the MNR.

We don't however have any cobras in Ontario
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  #53  
Old June 2nd, 2010, 08:23 PM
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I know this is an older post, but I wanted to point out that Eastern Hog Nose Snakes are venomous - they are rear-fanged snakes, and while their venom is not considered toxic/harmful to humans, they still can bite and release their venom (one guy I knew did a trial to find out what would happen if the venom was allowed to swell in his blood, he simply had a horrible engorged thumb [where the HN had clamped down on for over 20 mins], but that was about it).
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:19 PM
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If he really wanted to test a colubrid's venom, he should have done it at feeding time, since they seem to release the venom when catching prey rather than in defense But the only hognose snakes I've handled have been so small that even if they wanted to bite me they likely couldn't. I have yet to have any of them even try. They're just little s.

The garter snakes on the other hand... Much more likely to defend themselves by biting.
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:32 PM
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I do believe it was a feeding time test. I can't remember exactly, as this was a few years back when we had our pet store. But I agree, they are indeed awesome snakes I love the garters too, always trying to be mean :P I've never been bitten by one, but musked on a few times
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:34 PM
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I know this is an older post, but I wanted to point out that Eastern Hog Nose Snakes are venomous - they are rear-fanged snakes, and while their venom is not considered toxic/harmful to humans, they still can bite and release their venom (one guy I knew did a trial to find out what would happen if the venom was allowed to swell in his blood, he simply had a horrible engorged thumb [where the HN had clamped down on for over 20 mins], but that was about it).
I think I addressed this in an earlier post.

They are thought to POSSIBLY carry a mild venom, but researchers aren't in agreement about it. Their saliva is somewhat toxic to small prey, but this doesn't necessarily make them venomous. There is disagreement as to whether the rear fangs actually deliver any venom, and I haven't been able to find anything on what TYPE of venom it may be.
It's scientific semantics of sorts. But science is a very technical thing and definitions must be kept accurate, so that's not surprising.

The reaction you described doesn't prove the presence of venom, since most snakes, if you allowed them to clamp on you for 20 mins, would cause the reaction described. And actually some people will have that reaction to almost any snake saliva when bitten.

I'm not saying they are or are not venomous, but I don't think you can accurately proclaim that they are definitely venomous since there's quite a bit of disagreement between researchers as to whether they actually are.
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:35 PM
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I know this is an older post, but I wanted to point out that Eastern Hog Nose Snakes are venomous - they are rear-fanged snakes, and while their venom is not considered toxic/harmful to humans, they still can bite and release their venom (one guy I knew did a trial to find out what would happen if the venom was allowed to swell in his blood, he simply had a horrible engorged thumb [where the HN had clamped down on for over 20 mins], but that was about it).
The Eastern Hog-nosed Snake is not considered to be venomous, and to suggest otherwise is to further endanger it. Too many people already kill them out of fear because with their heavy build and threatening displays they are mistaken for a more dangerous kind of snake. A nickname for them is "puff adder" although they are in no way related to adders, which are a type of pit viper. Maybe the guy who did the "trial" got an infection, or reacted in some other way? The Massassauga Rattler is the only venomous snake found in Ontario. Here is some more info on the Eastern Hog-nosed Snake:

Eastern Hog-nosed Snake

Features: The Eastern Hog-nosed snake (Heterodon platirhinos) is sometimes mistaken for a cobra because when it is threatened it rears back and flattens its neck out. It may strike out if harassed but rarely bites, and it is non-venomous. It gets its common name from long scales on its nose which give it an upturned snout. Old individuals can be one metre long and their bodies are thick. They prefer sandy, well-drained habitats such as beaches and dry woods because this is where they lay their eggs in burrows and where they hibernate. But they must have access to wet areas such as swamps to hunt frogs, toads and lizards.

Status: Threatened Provincially and Nationally

Range: The species is widespread south of the Great Lakes and east of the Rockies, but it is not common anywhere. In Ontario, it is found in southern and central Ontario as far north as Lake Nipissing. Range Maps

Threats: The species is at the northern limits of its range in Ontario and was likely never common here. Historic declines were probably due to loss of habitat from development and farming, and persecution by people. These factors continue as threats today and slow recovery of the species in Ontario.

Protection: Under Ontario's Endangered Species Act 2007, it is illegal to harass, capture, buy, sell, possess, or kill the Eastern Hog-nosed Snake. This species is also protected under Ontario's Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act. Some populations in Ontario are on public land such as provincial parks where they receive habitat protection. Education on this harmless species is important, and has paid off in Pinery Provincial Park where staff have implemented a public education program and report that fewer snakes are being killed by visitors.

Text Sources: Schueler 1996

Last Modified Date: October 2008
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TwinTails
I do believe it was a feeding time test. I can't remember exactly, as this was a few years back when we had our pet store. But I agree, they are indeed awesome snakes I love the garters too, always trying to be mean :P I've never been bitten by one, but musked on a few times
I missed my target when catching a foot-long garter last year trying save it from Curious Cole and gave it too much neck to work with. It swung back and nailed me pretty good on the hand. Lots and lots and lots of little teeth! Not much in the way of marks, though--tiny little pin-pricks.
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:38 PM
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WoW My source is seriously outdated! Thank you for the clarification! I honestly did not know that, I had always known them to be "rear-fanged venomous" and always considered them "hots" (though considerably less than Cobras, etc). Thank you again for clarifying this for both myself and anyone else reading
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:41 PM
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As for venom in colubrids, I remember reading somewhere, though I can't remember where, that there have been occasional cases of children getting bit while feeding their snakes that resulted in swelling of the hand and arm and the kids feeling ill--all of which points to some sort of substance being secreted by the snake, whether it be venom or just something that causes some sort of an allergic reaction. I've never seen any study that proved the venom theory or analyzed the substance, though
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"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
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