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  #61  
Old March 25th, 2010, 03:41 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Originally Posted by Kateryna View Post
All of you are truly amazing. You definately lfter my spirits with your help and encouragement. Thank you so much for that.
It is clear that you are good people.. When someone is true blue..how could we not.
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  #62  
Old March 25th, 2010, 04:35 PM
Choochi Choochi is offline
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All of you are truly amazing. You definately lfter my spirits with your help and encouragement. Thank you so much for that.
Ok I skimmed quickly through all the posts..

Quite frankly YOU are the problem here. YOU need to change.

I had a client with a dog (also a maltese) that acted just like yours, a little uncontrollable terror. When ever he came over to my house, he was perfectly fine (less a few initial flare ups), but I set strict rules and know how to deal with problem dogs. The client tried trainers, and quite frankly simply did not follow their advice. She ended up deciding to rehome the dog, and the last I heard he is doing just fine in his new home.

The fact your sister has a well behaved dog, simply means he is a good dog, doesn't necessarily make her qualified to deal with a problem dog. There are dogs out there that will little training and guidance maker perfect pets, there are dogs who require a little more effort, and then there are dogs who require a lot more effort.

It's not necessarily your fault that you got "dealt" a difficult dog you were not experienced enough to handle (I'm assuming you got him from a pet store, or a byb, and not a reputable breeder who would have never sold you a pup like this if they knew you weren't experienced enough to handle him, and would have offered you support in changing his behaviours asap). Lot's of people buy a dog because it looks a certain way and then have no idea how to deal with the dog's character. It is however your fault that you did not resolve these issues earlier. To me that speaks volumes about your attitude towards the dog and his training, and that needs to change if you're hoping for any slim chance of adjustment in his attitude. At this point you will definitely need professional help from some one very experienced when dealing with aggression. Don't even consider sending your dog away for training because while his habits need to be changed it is far more important that YOU re-learn how to deal with this dog.

You can't have people over? Is the dog putting a gun to their heads? Ofcourse you can have people over! Just put the damn dog away and don't let him rule the house hold! He should never even have the opportunity to try to bite some one. The people didn't stop coming over because of him, they stopped coming over because of you! Not many people want to deal with a person unwilling to control their dog. It speaks volumes about the lack of respect you have for those people and that you feel your dog's freedom some how trumps their safety and comfort. Why would I want to be friends with some one like that? If a stranger comes over, the dog goes into his crate. Otherwise the dog ALWAYS has a leash on him, even a muzzle (especially when around the children). He should never have the opportunity to bite your hubby's feet. He should have been stopped the second he takes a few steps towards his feet. Buy him a basket muzzle (not the tight nylon ones) so that he can wear it for long periods of time with out any effect other then preventing him to bite. If he's not good with a crate, you need to start crate training 101 as that will be a big management tool for you and will help you with training.

He sounds a lot to me like an insecure fear biter dog that over time has been allowed to think he rules the world and the only way he knows how to get any thing he wants is through intimidation and aggression. It's very common, and what you're describing sounds like a classic example. It's absolutely treatable, but it will take a lot of time and effort before you start seeing changes.

How is his obedience training? Again, that's going to be a massive tool for you in helping change him. He is definitely not a candidate for group classes, so don't even consider that either. If you can't even control him at home, how is he supposed to learn any thing in a class?

You definitely have your work cut out for you.. The books you got are ok ones, but I would also strongly recommend you read "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson, it's written in a very easy and funny every day language and I think really helps non-dog people or people who lack that innate understanding of how to react to a dog. It will help you understand some of what is happening and hopefully you will be able to recognize what you are doing wrong and how the dog perceives your actions.

I think it would be a great shame to put this dog down, that would be failing him. I think it would be a far better option to rehome him into a home that is well aware of his issues and is also CAPABLE and experienced enough to deal with him and rehab him.

Last edited by Choochi; March 25th, 2010 at 04:55 PM.
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  #63  
Old March 25th, 2010, 04:44 PM
aslan aslan is offline
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hmmm tho in some instances i do agree with what you're saying,,just wondering if you possibly could have been a little less abrasive about it.
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  #64  
Old March 25th, 2010, 04:46 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Chooci - I just saw the 'YOU' and stopped reading from there. Sorry.
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  #65  
Old March 25th, 2010, 04:52 PM
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setting you up with PM access now kateryna - good luck. Marko
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  #66  
Old March 25th, 2010, 04:53 PM
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thank you marko.
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  #67  
Old March 25th, 2010, 04:56 PM
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Kateryna Kateryna is offline
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Thank you for your honesty Choochi. You are right. I have failed this dog. I had a lot of personal issues when I got him and I did buy him at a pet store which I now now is terrible and it was an impulse buy.

I have tried many techniques and none work and to be honest, right now with having two infants and being alone at home from 6am to 6pm taking care of them, I am not sure how much time I will have to train him.

It is true that people can come to my house, but what do I do to him when for hours he will scream and cry from his crate, without giving up. Bark and scratch aggressively. Not many people will enjoy having company at home under such circumstances. So I stopped.

I don't know what to say really, except, thanks
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  #68  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Kateryna View Post
Thank you for your honesty Choochi. You are right. I have failed this dog. I had a lot of personal issues when I got him and I did buy him at a pet store which I now now is terrible and it was an impulse buy.

I have tried many techniques and none work and to be honest, right now with having two infants and being alone at home from 6am to 6pm taking care of them, I am not sure how much time I will have to train him.

It is true that people can come to my house, but what do I do to him when for hours he will scream and cry from his crate, without giving up. Bark and scratch aggressively. Not many people will enjoy having company at home under such circumstances. So I stopped.

I don't know what to say really, except, thanks
Put the crate in the basement or in the garage (so long as it isn't freezing or too hot) when you have company and COMPLETELY ignore him! He gets to come out of the crate when he is quiet and only when he is quiet. If he is crate trained, you should only have to do this once or twice. If he is not, it may take a few more times.
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  #69  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:07 PM
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What is done is done, can we not guide, encourage, for the now and possibly the future?? choochi?? a little harsh don't you think??

Kateryna came here for help, and to me that's a start
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  #70  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:10 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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What is done is done, can we not guide, encourage, for the now and possibly the future?? choochi?? a little harsh don't you think??

Kateryna came here for help, and to me that's a start
Takes alot of guts to know where you went wrong, own up to it and want to address the problem.

But - also, knowing that this pup came from a petstore sheds alittle more light on the situation. As LuckyPenny stated in a thread about 'imprinting' the issue can be deeper and not necessarly the OP's fault in it's entirety.
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  #71  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:11 PM
aslan aslan is offline
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Takes alot of guts to know where you went wrong, own up to it and want to address the problem.

But - also, knowing that this pup came from a petstore sheds alittle more light on the situation. As LuckyPenny stated in a thread about 'imprinting' the issue can be deeper and not necessarly the OP's fault in it's entirety.
well said Breeze

have to agree with you Benmax,,i would love to hear what Choochi would have to say about my Bishop.
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  #72  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:13 PM
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Takes alot of guts to know where you went wrong, own up to it and want to address the problem.

But - also, knowing that this pup came from a petstore sheds alittle more light on the situation. As LuckyPenny stated in a thread about 'imprinting' the issue can be deeper and not necessarly the OP's fault in it's entirety.
I agree, it does take a lot of courage..
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  #73  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:15 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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well said Breeze

have to agree with you Benmax,,i would love to hear what Choochi would have to say about my Bishop.
What I have learned from my experience is that not all dogs can be remedied. Like humans, the 'wiring' can be crossed.

I am truly hoping that this is not the case for this little guy, but only time will tell.

BTW - I have a maltese foster at my home now. LP and Frenchy saw this dog. He is also a piece of work BUT he will not bite. He complains alot with his snarling and growling...not something that is pleasant to hear....still working on it and it's been 1.5 months now.
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  #74  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:17 PM
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I agree, it does take a lot of courage..
yup i definately bow down to the Op for coming here and asking for total honesty.
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  #75  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:18 PM
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Kateryna Kateryna is offline
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I have some questions if you guys could please share with me:

What would you do when my dog:

Barks at the door or any outside noise?

Pulls on a leash continuously even after I persistently keep it at my level and not in front of me?

Attacks my infants through the baby gate?

Growls when being groomed by me?

Should it be in the crate all day long if my twins crawl everywhere and when they do he attacks them? I don't think it's fare to him to be crated all day.

I'm sorry but I obviously ticked off some people. I just wanted second opinion and experience shared rather than pointing fingers on who to blame as I already stated in my original post, that I know I am at fault here.
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  #76  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:21 PM
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kateryna you didn't piss anyone off so don't worry about it..There are so many differant training methods for a dog that pulls. Choochi's muzzle suggestion was an ok one, or you could try a prong collar..seriously tho wait for LP to pm you,,i think she is now, she really is one of the best to give you advice.
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  #77  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:23 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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kateryna you didn't piss anyone off so don't worry about it..There are so many differant training methods for a dog that pulls. Choochi's muzzle suggestion was an ok one, or you could try a prong collar..seriously tho wait for LP to pm you,,i think she is now, she really is one of the best to give you advice.
I may look like a brown noser here......but I agree with Aslan. LP will help.
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  #78  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:24 PM
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  #79  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
What I have learned from my experience is that not all dogs can be remedied. Like humans, the 'wiring' can be crossed.
this is true,

you have experience as does LP and Frenchy and Aslan and Hazel, LR and many many other,
with the right tools and the guidance and people to contact Kateryna can make her desecion based on the information given to her. and maybe there will be a light at the end of the tunnel, maybe not, but at least she will be prepared with the help you guys are giving her.

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  #80  
Old March 25th, 2010, 05:25 PM
aslan aslan is offline
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I may look like a brown noser here......but I agree with Aslan. LP will help.
geez would you stop following me around this is how rumors get started.

Kateryna unfortunately the pup was purchased at a very emotional time for you,,you couldn't take care of yourself let alone a puppy. The pup started to take on the lead in the house..umbilical training is going to be huge, not letting the dog alone with the kids of course....Lp will tell you.
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  #81  
Old March 25th, 2010, 08:15 PM
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I wouldn't put a prong collar on this dog either. With the kind of aggression she has described, I would be concerned about transference if any kind on negative enforcement is used.
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  #82  
Old March 25th, 2010, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Kateryna View Post
I have some questions if you guys could please share with me:

What would you do when my dog:

Barks at the door or any outside noise?

Pulls on a leash continuously even after I persistently keep it at my level and not in front of me?

Attacks my infants through the baby gate?

Growls when being groomed by me?

Should it be in the crate all day long if my twins crawl everywhere and when they do he attacks them? I don't think it's fare to him to be crated all day.

I'm sorry but I obviously ticked off some people. I just wanted second opinion and experience shared rather than pointing fingers on who to blame as I already stated in my original post, that I know I am at fault here.
You need to stop and take a breathe. There isn't a soul here who hasn't made mistakes with their dogs and had moments of "what was I thinking". And we certainly have no reason to be mad at YOU.

Many people crate their dogs while they are away and the dog is fine. If you need to crate this dog while your twins are "loose" well, he will adjust. But the crate in an out of the way place while you sort everything out.
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  #83  
Old March 26th, 2010, 09:43 AM
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I'm sorry if some of you felt my comments were hurtful but I wasn't trying to attack the Op, just being brutally honest which incidentally is exactly what she asked for.

I'm not going to sugar coat the facts here when a dog's life is at stake, and quite frankly the op and her family are not doing all that great either. Being "nice" and avoiding the hard truth in this situation would only be a dis-service. The facts are that this is all her doing and changing her ways is going to be the key to resolving this. She needs to know it's not the dog's fault. I'm not going to blame this on the dog and say "oh it's ok, it's not your fault" because that would be lieing to her face in order to protect her feelings. I'm sorry but that is just wrong when once again, the dog's life is at stake and the situation is this serious.

Kateryna, I really do feel for what you're going through. If you can't even leave him in the crate, because he protests so much, plain and simple he isn't properly crate trained. You need good crate training as a foundation to help change his ways. There is a lot of good material out "there" about basic crate training. I would also recommend the DVD "Crate Games" with Susan Garret, those games could also help you establish a better relationship with your dog and start turning around some of his believes that he's the boss. Jut putting the crate away and out of sight while the dog isn't properly crate trained to begin won't necessarily resolve any thing. You may not be able to hear him, but in his mind you just might be creating an environment where he feels he just has to get that much louder to be heard. Could make things worse when the crate comes back inside the house. His crate needs to be a happy and safe place, and I think should be stationary for the initial periods of training. If we are dealing with an insecure dog turned tyrant, moving the crate around could give him reasons to be more insecure. You don't want to end up with a dog who is now happy to go in his crate but becomes protective of it.

I wouldn't recommend a prong collar for this dog without seeing what is happening. Especially with the fact he already has hierarchy issues, the prong could act to further frustrate him. While he will need stern leadership and possibly some corrections, I would prefer to use a more positive and guidance based training system on a dog like this. Especially if his issues have originated from insecurities and lack of socializing in his earlier life. He doesn't need more conflict, he's already created enough of that for himself.
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  #84  
Old March 26th, 2010, 09:54 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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I wouldn't put a prong collar on this dog either. With the kind of aggression she has described, I would be concerned about transference if any kind on negative enforcement is used.
Oh boy - I am going to sound like a brown noser big time...but I agree with you LavenderRott.
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  #85  
Old March 26th, 2010, 11:19 AM
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You've gotten some good suggestions, and I'm sure you've gotten some pm's by now with more. One thing that was mentioned in a post was a suggestion about having someone walk your dog - personally I think this is not a good idea, unless it is the behaviorist who is walking him. If he attacks another dog while on the walk, you would still be liable - and the dog walker may inadvertently take him into a situation that increases the chances of that.

I'm glad that you are seeking the help of a behaviorist. I've seen lots of little dogs who have been allowed to rule the roost - I think that when they are puppies, we think it's funny when the tiny thing acts all gruff and tough, not realizing that we are reinforcing the behavior. My mom had a papillon at one time, and seriously we called him the Anti-Christ because he was such a holy terror. It wasn't the dogs fault, my mom let him get away with far too much as a cute little puppy, not realizing how that would translate into adult behaviors.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 11:50 AM
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Just wanted to say good luck with everything I really commend you for recognizing the problem and asking for help. I also think it's great that you haven't downplayed the issue just because you have a small breed - far too many people do that and end up with very dangerous little dogs.

You're in good hands with users such as LP, LavenderRott, aslan, etc. Please don't be put off by any conflict that may develop in this thread or others re: training methods. There are many different approaches and it would be impossible for everyone to agree I think. Don't let yourself get pulled in too many different directions. Trust your gut and take the advice you feel most comfortable with and believe is best for your dog and your family.

Good luck!
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Old March 26th, 2010, 11:52 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Just wanted to say good luck with everything I really commend you for recognizing the problem and asking for help. I also think it's great that you haven't downplayed the issue just because you have a small breed - far too many people do that and end up with very dangerous little dogs.

You're in good hands with users such as LP, LavenderRott, aslan, etc. Please don't be put off by any conflict that may develop in this thread or others re: training methods. There are many different approaches and it would be impossible for everyone to agree I think. Don't let yourself get pulled in too many different directions. Trust your gut and take the advice you feel most comfortable with and believe is best for your dog and your family.

Good luck!
Very Very well said.
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  #88  
Old March 26th, 2010, 11:53 AM
JennieV JennieV is offline
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Kateryna, you got a lot of good points, and while some posters came across a little too harsh for my pallet, they also had a point or two that were very important.

I would like to suggest something... Try to change your overall behaviour. What I mean is take a note of how you carry yourself every day, are you behaving as a leader? Or are you submissive, depressed and sad? Even if you have to fake it - carry your head high, shoulders back, stand tall. No hunching. Don't be afraid to display strength, you have it, you just need to let it show. You should be calm, collected and ASSERTIVE. Not agressive, ASSERTIVE. You come first, you and your children.

When he pulls on the street, stop dead in your tracks, do not go on, until he is by your side. Eventually, he will come. it may take a little time nd patience, mostly patience. Do not get I had a little issue with Sparky and what I did is I trained him to sit when I stop. So I would just randomly stop and make him come next to me and sit his bum down. Only then we go on. Now, he knows. He watches me, as soon as I stop - that bum hits the pavement, cause he knows he wants to go on. He still pulls occasionally, so I pull back, and stop dead until he snaps out of it. Also, change direction rather suddenly, like walk the other way without warning. Or turn. He will learn to pay attention to YOU, as leader, rather than all around him.

Your entire attitude towards him should change. Practice the suggested NILIF, no treats, no play, no pets until he does something you asked him, it could be anything at all, but he has to learn that YOU direct him, not the other way around. When you feed him, same thing - no bowl until he sits for example.

Mostly, I am sending you lots of and , you CAN do this. It will be long and hard, there will be times you will feel that you're going nowhere, or there will be setbacks, but the alternative is just too painful, this is worth a try. At least, you will be able to say that you have tried it all if it comes down to the final decision. GOOD LUCK!!!!
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Old March 26th, 2010, 04:28 PM
FlamesGirl FlamesGirl is offline
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Lots of good ideas and great posts here. Good for you for trying to fix the problem, too. I'm going to suggest a lot more exercise for your dog. Running/playing in the basement isn't really "exercise" for a dog...it's just playtime. Every dog needs a balance of playtime AND exercise, and lots of problems start when people confuse the two and/or neglect one. Even a 20 min walk once or twice a day would be a great start. Dogs NEED to walk and get out the yard or mental issues can start.

Even if you're trying other ideas already posted, try to commit yourself to at least one/two walks a day. Walk briskly and keep your dog at your side; no pulling and no stopping to sniff the flowers either. Walk like you're late for an appointment to keep your dog focused on you. If he's forging ahead, walk a square/box shape by turning left at 90 degree angles. Change pace - walk heel-to-toe slow, then back to your brisk pace. Do 180 degree turns whenever you think your dog is focused on something that's NOT you and don't wait for him to follow. Pivot on your right foot and immediately start walking away, no hesitation.

If you ride a bike or rollerblade - take him with you! Make him walk/trot/run next to you for 20 minutes and get him away from the property. The great thing about going that fast is that dogs usually can't focus on anything to start being aggressive about. If he sees a dog that he thinks he's going to attack - by the time he's thought about it, you're already past the other dog.

Just because he's a little dog doesn't mean he can't "work" like a big dog. My amazing dog walker walks 10 dogs, including a little chi for, more than hour on hilly terrain. That dog keeps up to the big dogs, no problem. Buy a little doggie backpack for your maltese and let him carry it on your walks then gradually add weight in the saddlebags. Start feeding him from an A-maze-ball/buster cube or put his kibble in a kong with some pb/mashed banana/water and freeze it for a few hours THEN give it to him for breakfast/dinner. That way he starts to use his mind and the more a dog uses his mind, the more tired they are. The more tired a dog is from physical AND mental pursuits - the calmer they are. Sounds like his mental/physical stimulation needs aren't being met. It won't "cure" the aggression but it will help big time.
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  #90  
Old March 26th, 2010, 10:32 PM
LynnI LynnI is offline
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Hi,

I haven't read the entire thread, but may I suggest All About Dogs in Toronto.
Renee is a lovely person and she just opened a huge new indoor training facility. I know she has turned around some very aggressive dogs and dogs with issues. http://www.allaboutdogs.ca/

Good luck, btw she is a positive trainer and I would be stunned if you didn't get results. Agreed stay away from BarkBusters and CM methods, those methods are guaranteed to make your dog worse.

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