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Old September 8th, 2009, 04:06 PM
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dartfrog dartfrog is offline
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dry kibble and raw?

A question for all you raw gurus; I have been feeding Origin to our boxer puppy and have been pretty happy with it but was wondering if anyone feeds raw as sort of a wet food in conjunction with a dry food…. I don’t know if I could give up the convenience (and price point) of a dry food but thought maybe 3 or 4 meals a week could be raw. He already gets meaty raw beef bones to chew on but I thought maybe adding raw (not sure if I would buy it prepared or do it myself or a little of both) to Origin would be at least a little beneficial?

thanks
Michelle
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Old September 8th, 2009, 04:29 PM
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Marcha Marcha is offline
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Hi Michelle,

From what I understand, it's okay to do a bit of both - just not at the same time. There needs to be a good amount of time between a kibble meal and a raw meal. Depending on how many meals your pup gets (ours is 4 months old and still gets 3 meals per day), I would say give raw for breakfast, and then make sure there's at least 4 hrs until your pup's kibble lunch and dinner. Or if your pup is down to two meals per day, there's enough space between meals for a meal of each.

It'd definitely be beneficial to have some raw food even when you're feeding kibble. Be aware that the poo after a raw meal will look different than 'kibble poo', and that raw stools come about 4 hrs after a raw meal. So when you're feeding pup raw, make sure you have the time 4 hrs later to take the pup out to 'go'.

As regards price for raw/kibble... raw is cheaper than kibble (and Orijen is definitely easy to beat in price when it comes to raw), if you have the time to go find the deals on meat in your area. Our local supermarket hardly ever has deals where meat is below Cdn $2/lb, or $4.99/kg, and our local butcher doesn't like to give his scraps for pet food (FDA regulations and such). But Thriftys had a lovely case lot sale two weeks ago where pork chops were $1.99/lb, so we bought a bunch of those and put them in the freezer. If you have time to look around, you'll find many more deals for that price... just keep your eyes open for them.

You'll need to figure out the amount of meat you're giving your pup too. For instance, if you're giving 3 meals per day, and you're needing to give about 2/3 of a cup of Orijen per meal, you need to make up for that 2/3 with a similar amount of meat.

Raw growing pups need around 8%- 10% of their body weight per day. So say that your pup is needing about 3lbs of meat per day and you're feeding 3 meals per day, you'll need to give 1lb per meal. (This is just an easy amount here for the benefit of the example, it's not telling you your pup needs 3lbs. You'll need to determine what your pup needs based on its weight and activity level and such...)

If pup isn't filled after that meal, don't give kibble to fill pup up. Wait for at least 4 hrs before you give more. That can make for a frustrated pup, so it's just easier to make sure you're giving the right amount.

For what it's worth, we're keeping Orijen 'on hand' even though our pup is entirely raw fed. We took Orijen with us when we went camping on an island (Galiano) where meat is pricy per definition, and we couldn't keep our own meats frozen.
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Old September 8th, 2009, 09:31 PM
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luckypenny luckypenny is offline
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Marcha is correct, do not feed raw and kibble at the same time. Dogs and cats don't get sick eating raw because it takes 4-6 hours for it to digest. It doesn't remain in their digestive system long enough for it to cause problems. Kibble can take 12+ hours. Feed together, and you may likely make your puppy ill.

When we did feed the two, raw was fed for breakfast, and kibble at an early supper.

Sorry, sorta off-topic for a sec...Marcha, you don't feed just raw pork chops I hope ?
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Old September 8th, 2009, 11:59 PM
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Marcha Marcha is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
Sorry, sorta off-topic for a sec...Marcha, you don't feed just raw pork chops I hope ?
Good lord, no! At this time we have in our freezer
  • chicken backs
  • chicken livers
  • turkey necks
  • venison
  • lamb
  • beef ribs
  • beef heart
  • beef cuts
  • beef bones without meat
  • bison bones with meat, cut up into sections so that she can also get to the marrow for 'fasting' days
  • whole mackerel
  • whole herring
  • some kind of fish with white meat (can't remember the name right now)
  • green tripe
  • a bunch of the prepared raw patties (ground chicken, lamb/veggies)

and... (drumroll)
  • pork chops

Beside that, she also gets salmon oil and alfalfa in her food every other day, she gets the odd raw egg, the odd spoon of probiotic yoghurt, fruit and veggies when she'll take them.

(does that help?)
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Old September 11th, 2009, 11:43 PM
RaceRngr RaceRngr is offline
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Why not feed raw and kibble together? I've read the thread which talk's about the different digestive rates but don't see that as a problem. I was kind of thinking along the lines of the OP in regards to supplementing for a treat like once a week or so. My dog's a Cane Corse ~120lbs and eats once per day (Innova Evo).
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Old September 12th, 2009, 12:03 AM
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growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
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If fed raw & kibble in the same meal, the slower digestion rate of kibble will keep the raw meat in the intestines longer giving the potential for e.coli, salmonela etc to ferment with and in the sugar & starch from the kibble causing gastric upset.

http://rawfed.com/myths/bacteria.html
Quote:
Kibble in the intestine not only irritates the lining of the bowels but also provides the perfect warm, wet environment with plenty of undigested sugars and starches as food for bacteria.
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Old September 12th, 2009, 12:28 AM
RaceRngr RaceRngr is offline
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Originally Posted by growler View Post
If fed raw & kibble in the same meal, the slower digestion rate of kibble will keep the raw meat in the intestines longer giving the potential for e.coli, salmonela etc to ferment with and in the sugar & starch from the kibble causing gastric upset.

http://rawfed.com/myths/bacteria.html
OK, that makes more sense. Thanks for the response.
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Old March 13th, 2010, 09:35 AM
kevnlou kevnlou is offline
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Question what is required in a raw meal.

I would like to feed my boys (2 year old Char-Pei - 40lb & 5 mo old Boston Terrier X - 30lb) one raw meal per day, currently both are on 2 meals per day, the early evening meal is to be kibble (wellness and wellness puppy). so what are some examples of good morning meals for my boys? Because both currently have a tendency to inhale their food, i would prefer giving raw either without bones or with very big bones they wouldn't be able to choke on. Its not that they aren't supervised (i work from home so i'm always with them) but i'd rather work them into this slowly

one more little question so i understand portion sizes.

Spencer (Char-Pei) would get about 1.2lbs(3%) per day or 0.6lbs per meal (272gms)
Oliver (Boston X) would get about 3lbs(10%) per day or 1.5lbs per meal (680gms)

or would Oliver no longer be classified as a puppy? both dogs are pretty active with about 2hrs of Disciplined walking per day and about 2-4 hours of "yard/park" time per day (depending on how cold it gets outside)

thanks in advance
Kev

Last edited by kevnlou; March 13th, 2010 at 09:37 AM. Reason: early submit
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Old March 13th, 2010, 11:43 AM
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luckypenny luckypenny is offline
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If Oliver is close to adult size and weight, you should aim for less than a total of 10%. You could start at about 5% and if you notice he's slimming down, increase by 1% at a time. All dogs are different so use your dogs' body shapes to judge and adjust amounts accordingly.

You can start with some de-boned chicken if you're concerned about bones and add perhaps a chicken neck (you can hammer it down with a mallet) and a tiny bit of organ such as heart, liver, giblets. Chicken breast on the bone (these bones are very soft) is another good meal to start with. You can also feed whole frozen sardines if your dogs like them.
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