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  #61  
Old November 24th, 2009, 07:53 PM
tiggy2 tiggy2 is offline
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Well she's back from the vet

And drink, man she practically living by the water fountain. I thought with the IV fluids she would not want water?

Anyway we've sent blood off to get the test done for pancreatitis, should have that result in a couple of days.

My vet is also posting her history on a vet forum to see if anyone can come up with something a little more concrete. They are tossing about irritable bowel as well

We have a topical prednisone, which I put on her ear 2 times a day for now and the pepid ac and the rest of the antibiotics. We'll see how that goes. The #1 priority is to get her to eat and I'm hoping the prednisone will help with that.

So far she's had about a table spoon of food on her own. If that keeps up then I won't have to force feed her. We'll see how tomorrow goes, when I can feed her every 2 hours or so.

How much food should I be getting into her? I know she needs like 6oz, but I doubt I can get that much. Another words if I can't get her to eat on her own should I force feed her? I hate to do that.

Right now I'm feeding her the Wellness brand with tuna (a few flakes of low sodium) on top. She mostly eats around the tuna, as she's not to keen on chewing her food.

Any idea's as to what's up with that. When she eats it's like she's chewing her food or having a hard time getting the food down. She'll lick the food and then try and chew it like it's too dry? I water it extra for her as well.

Any suggestions on high energy or "good" food that I can give her to get her calories up? Baby food even, she seems to like the texture of that.

I guess it's another wait and see time and more time feeding

Thanks for all your

So far she's hanging in there
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  #62  
Old November 24th, 2009, 08:17 PM
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We have a topical prednisone, which I put on her ear 2 times a day for now and the pepid ac and the rest of the antibiotics. We'll see how that goes. The #1 priority is to get her to eat and I'm hoping the prednisone will help with that.
Prednisone may help with appetite, but that effect might not be strong enough in her situation. Why not mirtazapine?

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How much food should I be getting into her?
How much does she weigh?

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When she eats it's like she's chewing her food or having a hard time getting the food down. She'll lick the food and then try and chew it like it's too dry? I water it extra for her as well.
Did the vet take a good look at her mouth recently?

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Any suggestions on high energy or "good" food that I can give her to get her calories up? Baby food even, she seems to like the texture of that.
Hill's A/D is often used for animals with anorexia, and it's about the only Hill's product I would ever consider using. Has a very smooth texture and seems to be appealing to many cats. It's easy to mix with a bit of water and feed via syringe if you have to.

The canned food with the highest amount of calories is Eukanuba Maximum Calorie, at 57 per oz. You can only get this one and the A/D at the vet.

Have you tried feeding her Wellness Kitten? That and the Wellness Chicken are pretty high at 40 cal/oz.

Here is more info on assisted feeding:
http://www.assistfeed.com/FelineAnorexia.htm
http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm
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  #63  
Old November 24th, 2009, 08:47 PM
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Prednisone may help with appetite, but that effect might not be strong enough in her situation. Why not mirtazapine?
If the prednisone is not enough in a couple of days I'll get the mirtazapine. Right now it's hard to get her to eat pills with a treat and pilling her makes her gag. But I will request it on Thursday if appetite does not improve.

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much does she weigh?
Yesterday she weighted 9 pounds 2 oz's the week before she was 9.8 pounds so she lost 6 oz in a week


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Has the vet take a good look at her mouth recently?
A couple of weeks ago I had her in and we put her out to check her mouth and throat and there was nothing wrong there and she had her teeth done in Feb., the start of all this. I noticed her lack of eating and bad breath and attributed it to bad teeth.[/QUOTE]

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Have you tried feeding her Wellness Kitten? That and the Wellness Chicken are pretty high at 40 cal/oz.
No, but I'll get a can. Should I be worried about the fat content due to her pancreas issues?


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Thanks I'll check them out and get some tip, especially the "how much to feed" that really helps.
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  #64  
Old November 24th, 2009, 09:46 PM
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Yesterday she weighted 9 pounds 2 oz's the week before she was 9.8 pounds so she lost 6 oz in a week
Generally, 20-30 calories per pound per day is the rough guideline, but for an inappetant cat, just getting even 50-60% of that in would be a good start. If you can convince Tus to eat about 3/4 of a can of A/D per day, I think that would really help.

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Should I be worried about the fat content due to her pancreas issues?
Right now, it's more important that she eat.

You've probably mentioned this, but what antibiotics is she on? These could be a big factor in her inappetance and I'd really be inclined to stop them unless there was a specific reason for her to be taking them.
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  #65  
Old November 25th, 2009, 06:13 PM
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Generally, 20-30 calories per pound per day is the rough guideline, but for an inappetant cat, just getting even 50-60% of that in would be a good start. If you can convince Tus to eat about 3/4 of a can of A/D per day, I think that would really help.
I'll have to check to see if the vet has that cat food. But in the mean time I'm hand feeding her and using the small 5oz can as a guide line. Whatever I can get her to eat. I can't obtain a lot of the different types of cat food here in NB. Like the wellness kitten. I can get the wellness regular and that's what I've been using so far. Found a "tuna" for cats and she's eating that right now. But of course that will change tomorrow.

So far only 1 "assisted" feeding) The rest hand fed) My hand stinks of cat food. I need to get some latex gloves.


Right now, it's more important that she eat.

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what antibiotics is she on? These could be a big factor in her inappetance and I'd really be inclined to stop them unless there was a specific reason for her to be taking them.
It's amoxil. and right now she won't take them with treats and to pill her makes her gag, so I've put them on hold until I can get the food intake up. I've finally got some Slippery Elm Bark in today. It says 1/4 tsp. Is that per day or per feeding?

So I guess it's stinking fish hands for awhile..the things we do for our pets)
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  #66  
Old November 25th, 2009, 08:23 PM
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So far only 1 "assisted" feeding) The rest hand fed)
Yippee! That's great that she's getting some nutrition. Way to persevere!

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I've finally got some Slippery Elm Bark in today. It says 1/4 tsp. Is that per day or per feeding?
I'd start with about 1/8 tsp twice a day and see how she does. You can go up to 1/4 tsp 4x day if needed and if she tolerates it. If she won't eat it mixed with food, you can make a syrup and syringe a small amount into her mouth. That might also be soothing to her throat if she has some sort of issue with swallowing. The syrup recipe is at the bottom of this page: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph...em=slipperyelm

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So I guess it's stinking fish hands for awhile..
Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.....
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  #67  
Old November 27th, 2009, 09:13 AM
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Riddle me this

Tus is now back to not eating again, so it's "assisted" feeding, not a pleasant experience for either of us.

It seems when she has the IV fluids she's good for a day or two and then she declines after that. and becomes more dehydrated again.

So why does she become dehydrated when she is drinking probably more and of course the food she eats is wet and I add water to it?

I've put a request into the Vet to try SubQ fluids to see if that makes a difference and to give her appetite stimulant as well, cause when she eats and is hydrated she's like her old self again and now she's getting miserable again.

I don't want her to have to go into the vet's for the day for IV fluids again.

So any ideas as to why she becomes dehydrated?
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  #68  
Old November 27th, 2009, 11:08 AM
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To me, if a cat who is getting fluids is also getting dehydrated it is because the kidneys are not concentrating the fluids. Perhaps SCM will be on soon and answer your questions.
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  #69  
Old November 27th, 2009, 02:28 PM
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So why does she become dehydrated when she is drinking probably more and of course the food she eats is wet and I add water to it?
Here's a lecture by Dr. Lee on the subject of PU/PD in pets:

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=52691

And another link:

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proce...A2002&PID=2556
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Old November 27th, 2009, 02:41 PM
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Forgot to mention that prednisone will also cause an increase in water consumption, but this was going on before Tus was put on steroids, correct?
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  #71  
Old November 28th, 2009, 12:38 AM
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The cats kidneys process & filter water from the body, then recycle most of it back into the body, what is left is concentrated with the toxins for excretion so the urine in a normal healthy cat actually has little water content.

A cat that is chronically dehydrated will drink more to try to replace what they are losing through electrolyte imbalance & excess urination, the volume of urine output doesn't allow the body to catch up even though the cat is drinking high volumes.

Dehydration is not only the loss of water from the body but also the loss of electrolytes - body salts such as potassium & sodium they also get flushed out with the waste.

A cat with compromised kidneys is more likely to be dehydrated and is unable to concentrate the urine sufficiently so they need to drink & uriniate more to flush out the same amount of toxins that would normally be excreted with less urine.

Tus feels better directly after having fluids because it relieves the immediate symptoms of dehydration, flushes toxins faster, and generally makes her feel better. The IV & SubQ fluids is a delicate balance of not only sterile water but several electrolytes as well, so when Tus has fluid therapy not only is the water balance restored but so is the electrolyte balance.

A dehydrated cat will also refuse to eat in part because of the "stomach ache feeling" that happens when low on fluids but also in part because they just feel cr@ppy.
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  #72  
Old November 29th, 2009, 09:45 AM
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I have an appointment set up for monday to take Tus in for SubQ fluids and to have them show me how it's done. I'm hoping this will make the difference as I can't keep forcing her to eat 3-4 times a day. It's a battle every time.

Also I noticed when I feed her that she grinds her teeth. Sounds like she is chewing something, but of course there is nothing to chew so it has to be her teeth. Any idea on what that could be? It sounds awful and sounds like it could be painful?

Anyway, lets keep that this works as this is the last straw as I won't force a cat to eat every day, it's too painful on both of us. There has to be a reason why she does not want to eat and I don't feel comfortable forcing someone to eat when they don't want to all the time. I don't mind once in awhile but all the time??



I'm also going to get some Vit. B in her as well, hope that will help.

Of course there is the feeding tube???

I'm also hoping the test results will be back by Monday as I'm still waiting to see if it's pancreatitis. <sigh>
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  #73  
Old November 29th, 2009, 12:52 PM
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Good luck tomorrow. Here's an excellent primer on giving subQ fluids if you haven't already seen it: http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/weir.../catjuice.html
Growler and I can also help you if you have any questions. One thing the vets never seem to mention is that it really helps if you warm the fluids first.

Also, it's time to get some mirtazapine. And if the fPLI shows pancreatitis, some better pain meds. If those don't work, perhaps a feeding tube would be the way to go.
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  #74  
Old November 29th, 2009, 03:06 PM
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Good luck tomorrow. Here's an excellent primer on giving subQ fluids if you haven't already seen it: http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/weir.../catjuice.html
Growler and I can also help you if you have any questions. One thing the vets never seem to mention is that it really helps if you warm the fluids first.

Also, it's time to get some mirtazapine. And if the fPLI shows pancreatitis, some better pain meds. If those don't work, perhaps a feeding tube would be the way to go.
I agree on the mirtazapine and if that does not work than it's a feeding tube, but only if it will make a difference. I don't want to prolong her life if it's painful or no hope beyond another month or two. I expect she has been sick for the better part of a year and nothing seems to be making her better or more comfortable

So Monday will be another information day with I hope the test results.

I can't see myself putting Tus through force feedings and Subq fluids with no positive results, to me it's like torturing the poor girl and then life becomes not a lot of fun Does that make sense?
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  #75  
Old November 30th, 2009, 12:07 AM
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Also I noticed when I feed her that she grinds her teeth. Sounds like she is chewing something, but of course there is nothing to chew so it has to be her teeth. Any idea on what that could be? It sounds awful and sounds like it could be painful?
Teeth grinding is a symptom of either the dehydration or the stomach acid, since Tus had her teeth checked not long ago we can rule that out. It does sound awful but it's not painful, Duffy used to do it before we got started on regular fluid therapy & worked in a few little things to help with stomach acid, Duffy never had a big problem with s.a. so raising the food & water dishes btwn 3-5 inches off the ground, more frequent feeding, adding a late night feeding helped to calm that down.

Fluid therapy is not as scary as it may look & as scm mentions definately warm the fluids first
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  #76  
Old November 30th, 2009, 09:24 AM
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Teeth grinding is a symptom of either the dehydration or the stomach acid, since Tus had her teeth checked not long ago we can rule that out. It does sound awful but it's not painful, Duffy used to do it before we got started on regular fluid therapy & worked in a few little things to help with stomach acid, Duffy never had a big problem with s.a. so raising the food & water dishes btwn 3-5 inches off the ground, more frequent feeding, adding a late night feeding helped to calm that down.

Fluid therapy is not as scary as it may look & as scm mentions definately warm the fluids first
Thanks for addressing the teeth chewing, god it awful. It sounds like she is chewing something plastic

Do you think the SubQ will help her eat. I'm concerned that she won't last much longer without food. The most I can get into her is about 20-30 ML a Day, and that's not enough to keep a bird alive not alone a cat

I don't want to wait too long before I have to go with a feeding tube and the force feeding is exactly that force feeding
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  #77  
Old November 30th, 2009, 11:19 AM
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Mirtazapine had my cat eating the first day I gave it to her.
Please try it.
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  #78  
Old November 30th, 2009, 05:03 PM
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Mirtazapine had my cat eating the first day I gave it to her.
Please try it.
Can't get it here it seems. So it's onto another drug that is similar to the drug I just gave her that did not work, just made her dopy. So I'm not holding out much hope for that.
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  #79  
Old November 30th, 2009, 05:07 PM
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Update.

Tus is now down to 8 pounds 15 oz's from 9.2 last week. Got the subQ fluids in her this afternoon no issues there, but this force feeding is not working.

She now shakes and grows and spits it out along with the teeth grinding. So I'm at my wits end. If she doesn't eat soon she'll die from starvation.

Anyone have any other suggestions on the "assisted feeding", cause right now it's torture on both of us.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 05:23 PM
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So why aren't you putting a feeding tube in?

Whoops wrong thread
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Last edited by Love4himies; November 30th, 2009 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Deleted line-wrong thread.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 06:14 PM
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So why aren't you putting a feeding tube in?

Methimazole is also known as Tapazole and should be available in Canada
I was hoping the SubQ fluids would work with the appetite stimulant. I was also waiting for the test results, but they were sent to the States and of course they are having their holiday.

If there is no hope of recovery then a feeding tube is just prolonging her torture.

But I'm leaning towards the feeding tube cause forcing her to eat is not the answer.

Should I wait another day or not?
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Old November 30th, 2009, 06:29 PM
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If that was my cat the feeding tube would have been put in within a week of my cat not responding to forced feeding.

Cats do not do well when they are not eating so you could be doing more damage not having a feeding tube than having one.

I believe your kitty is also on amoxil? If so, this could be part of the problem of your cat not eating.
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  #83  
Old November 30th, 2009, 07:26 PM
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If that was my cat the feeding tube would have been put in within a week of my cat not responding to forced feeding.

Cats do not do well when they are not eating so you could be doing more damage not having a feeding tube than having one.

I believe your kitty is also on amoxil? If so, this could be part of the problem of your cat not eating.
I stopeed the amoxil as I couldn't get food into her and if there was the possibility of upset stomach then I stopped it.

I just picked up the appetite stimulants and you have to give it with food..well that's not going to work.

So..I've emailed my vet and I'll call the clinic tomorrow to have a feeding tube put in, hopefully tomorrow.

Poor thing

I'll also have to check a little further on the mirtazpine/tapazole as I noticed someone from BC had it so you can get it in Canada.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 07:44 PM
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I stopeed the amoxil as I couldn't get food into her and if there was the possibility of upset stomach then I stopped it.

I just picked up the appetite stimulants and you have to give it with food..well that's not going to work.

So..I've emailed my vet and I'll call the clinic tomorrow to have a feeding tube put in, hopefully tomorrow.

Poor thing

I'll also have to check a little further on the mirtazpine/tapazole as I noticed someone from BC had it so you can get it in Canada.
Ignore that line, it was a mistake and meant for another cat forum. I deleted in on my post.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 08:31 PM
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Ignore that line, it was a mistake and meant for another cat forum. I deleted in on my post.
Ignore what line? The why not get a feeding tube?

I presume you are now suggesting a feeding tube?
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  #86  
Old November 30th, 2009, 08:47 PM
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Can't get it here it seems.
You absolutely CAN get it here. Ask your vet for a prescription and take it to the nearest pharmacy. It's a human anti-depressant, also known as Remeron. Honestly, your vet has been wasting enough time with this.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 08:51 PM
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Here's more info for you vet regarding dosage, etc., since they clearly don't know anything about it: http://www.VeterinaryPartner.com/Con...301&A=2552&S=2
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Old November 30th, 2009, 09:28 PM
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Here's more info for you vet regarding dosage, etc., since they clearly don't know anything about it: http://www.VeterinaryPartner.com/Con...301&A=2552&S=2
I've sent her the info on it.
The drug she gave me is cyproheptadine which is another antihistimine. I presume since the last one did not work this one would not work either. And of course as I said you have to give it with food( well she won't eat, kinda defeats the purpose.

We'll see what tomorrow will bring.
I'm getting real tired of this and so is Tus
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  #89  
Old November 30th, 2009, 10:08 PM
lindapalm lindapalm is offline
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I use Cyproheptadine Hydrochloride appetite stimulant on one of my cats, up to twice a day. I don't have to give it with food. Within a half hour she is meowing to be fed, never have had to give it to her twice. Don't use it a lot, but works great when I have to. Had to get her to stop eating after shes had it.
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  #90  
Old November 30th, 2009, 10:16 PM
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sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiggy2 View Post
The drug she gave me is cyproheptadine which is another antihistimine. I presume since the last one did not work this one would not work either. And of course as I said you have to give it with food( well she won't eat, kinda defeats the purpose.
Like lindapalm says, you don't give cyproheptadine with food. What was the other antihistamine that you were given? As far as I know, cyproheptadine is the only one used as an appetite stimulant for cats. I'm seriously losing confidence in your vet.
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