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Old September 22nd, 2009, 02:04 PM
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chablinos chablinos is offline
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Exclamation Adult rescue pees in crate daily - help!

My son and I adopted a 10-year-old (or so) Beagle mix from a rescue shelter a couple of weeks ago. She'd been in the shelter/pound only about 10 days after being picked up wandering the streets. We've been working really hard to housetrain her, but it's not going well so far. Here is what we've been doing:
  • many walks per day to same location with positive reinforcement (and treats) for peeing
  • crate introduction with toys and feeding in crate, and time with door open (and much praise from us)
  • 5-10 minute crate time trials, where we leave the apartment then come back in after several minutes and praise/walk her immediately.
  • moving dog to another room during mess clean-up, and treating with Nature's Miracle to eliminate scent.
  • giving treats in crate, and sometimes crating her while we are in the same room for short periods to normalize the crate time.
  • quick walk before crating to empty bladder.

Still, she pees in the crate and just sits or lays in the pee at least once or twice per day. At night, she sleeps on a rug next to our bed and hasn't peed once during the night since we got her - so we know she's [I]able[I]to hold it. It's only in the rest of the apartment when our back is turned, and in the crate when we leave the room. Vet says she doesn't appear to have any medical problems, but I will note that in the rescue shelter paperwork it said she was soaked head-to-toe in urine when they got her.

Any suggestions? We're going out of our minds trying to train her before I have to go back to work, when she'll be home alone for 6 hours at a time.
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 02:18 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Firstly I commend you on adopting an older pup. She is one lucky gal.

Do you have any background history on this dog? Did she come from a breeding facility?

Crating is a good start but I would put this dog on a routine. Don't walk her too frequently, umbilical train her for a few days and you will see a difference in cleanliness within the whole house.

Does she ask for the door yet?
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 02:26 PM
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Congrats on your new dog! And I second BenMaxs comment - good for you for adopting an older dog. It sounds like she led a rough life previously to finding you, poor thing.

If the vet has ruled out medical issues, chances are she's just never really been worked with properly to learn how/where to house-train. She may also have been kept in a crate for long periods of time and has learned that it's "ok" to pee there, and on herself. :sad:

As BM suggested, keep her on leash with you when you are going to be distracted. You may have to resort to training her as you would a puppy - which means she goes out after eating, after playing, and when she wakes up - constantly, through the day.

I rarely advise against crate-training, but in her case - it may be neccessary to avoid having her pee; and the whole success to house-training is to keep from giving them the opportunity. If she HAS been kept in a kennel and has learned to pee in it (and on herself) - simply because of her age, it may be more productive to do away with the kennel and find a different area to keep her in.
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
Firstly I commend you on adopting an older pup. She is one lucky gal.

Do you have any background history on this dog? Did she come from a breeding facility?

Crating is a good start but I would put this dog on a routine. Don't walk her too frequently, umbilical train her for a few days and you will see a difference in cleanliness within the whole house.

Does she ask for the door yet?
Thanks for your reply. We are the lucky ones: she's a real sweetheart.

No info on her history really. All they know is that she was already spayed, her teeth were really bad (we had them cleaned before we took her home), and she was covered in urine and running loose.

I'm assuming that umbilical training means holding her leash ALL the time? I'm off from work this week, so I can pretty well accomplish that if it will help. She doesn't go to the door or otherwise communicate that she needs to go yet. Actually, she hasn't vocalized at all since we got her. I wonder if putting a diaper on her will help train her faster? Thanks again!

Last edited by chablinos; September 22nd, 2009 at 02:35 PM.
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chablinos View Post
Thanks for your reply. No info on her history really. All they know is that she was already spayed, her teeth were really bad (we had them cleaned before we took her home), and she was covered in urine and running loose.

I'm assuming that umbilical training means holding her leash ALL the time? I'm off from work this week, so I can pretty well accomplish that if it will help. Thanks again!
'Umbilical' is actually around your waist, so you can more easily do things without having to hold the leash. But you're right - keeping her with you at all times is the main point.

Poor dog! Thankyou for taking this girl....
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 02:50 PM
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I would be teaching her the door. Associate the door of course with going outside. When you go to the door use the 'bathroom' word in a very happy upbeat tone. If she has a favourite toy - entice her this way as well.

I would use the crate but not too frequently until she understands the door. I would take her out in the morning (as close to your work schedule as possible), then put her into her crate after you have come back. Go through your morning routine while she is in the crate: shower, breakfast etc. Then take her out of the crate, put her on the leash and take her out again.

Throughout the day I would umbilical train her (yes leash around your waist) and take her out again at lunch hour and then the same time you would expect to come home from work. Again at night before bed.

Routine usually works well.

(PS - I tried the diaper thing - it did not work as I was desperate to entertained the thought for one of my fosters).
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 02:52 PM
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(PS - I tried the diaper thing - it did not work as I was desperate to entertained the thought for one of my fosters).
Yep. Diapers generally should be saved for males that have marking issues and not dogs with house-training problems. The reason is because sometimes we as owners tend to rely too much on the diaper, thus not solving the problem. Plus, if she's used to peeing on herself - the diaper will only reinforce this constant feeling for her (of wet) which you want to break her of.
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 06:03 PM
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When I got Annie, the pound said she peed in the house all the time. Miss Annie has her own way of saying when she has to go out. She goes and sits at the door. Perhaps your new dog has it's own signals. Good luck and thanks for saving this older soul.
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 07:11 PM
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Is there anyway you can block her off in a room like the kitchen when you go out instead of crating her? See how that works, as you say she's fine all night when she's not in the crate, she'll likely be fine for 6 hours left alone during the day too. Sounds to me like it's the crate that's creating the problem.

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Old September 22nd, 2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clm View Post
Is there anyway you can block her off in a room like the kitchen when you go out instead of crating her? See how that works, as you say she's fine all night when she's not in the crate, she'll likely be fine for 6 hours left alone during the day too. Sounds to me like it's the crate that's creating the problem.

clm
Thanks for your thoughts. To clarify, she'll urinate in any room (other than our bedroom) when we're not looking. The thing that was throwing me is that in the past, I've used crating very successfully to housetrain dogs - because they didn't want to urinate in the crate. So I didn't know what to do with a dog that is willing to lay in its own urine. That was new to me.

That said, I can pen her in another room, but since she's willing to relieve herself in most of them I want to try to make the crate work. (My landlord lives below me and will notice if the ceiling begins leaking.)

Thanks again, and I'm still listenening to everyone's ideas. For now I have her tethered to my hip as recommended earlier.

Thanks everybody, and also for the support for adopting an older dog. We worried about it a little, (I buried my last dog only 2.5 years ago and still miss her terribly) but in the end my 8-year-old son argued that even just a few years can still be very special. And old dogs deserve loving homes too.
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 08:38 PM
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I know you took her to a vet but , did he take a urine sample ?

Thank you for adopting a senior I'm hoping you can post pictures of her ?
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by chablinos View Post
And old dogs deserve loving homes too.
They certainly do .

Does she pee often? Did the vet do a urine culture to rule out a UTI? I think a geriatric blood panel might be a good idea to at least give you any indications if something else might be going on.
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 08:39 PM
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but in the end my 8-year-old son argued that even just a few years can still be very special. And old dogs deserve loving homes too.
wow , your 8 yr old said that ? What a nice boy you have !!!!
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 08:57 PM
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chablinos chablinos is offline
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wow , your 8 yr old said that ? What a nice boy you have !!!!
In that moment we KNEW we're raising him right.
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
I know you took her to a vet but , did he take a urine sample ?

Thank you for adopting a senior I'm hoping you can post pictures of her ?
done! she's my avatar!
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 06:55 PM
t.pettet t.pettet is offline
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Adult rescue

Has she been checked at vets for spay incontinence?
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by t.pettet View Post
Has she been checked at vets for spay incontinence?
What is spay incontinence?
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 07:06 PM
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Update

Thethering her to me really helped. Only one accident today (after drinking her weight in water) and I even left her crated for one hour while I picked my son up from school - and she held it!

Of course the downside is that I got little done since I was also tethered to her, LOL.

Thanks everybody for your advice. I'll keep you posted as to our progress.
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 08:50 PM
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Do you cover her crate with an old sheet or blanket? That has helped our pup.

Do you put the rug that sits next to your bed into the crate? If she hasn't had any accidents on the rug then maybe laying that rug inside the crate would help too?
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Old October 26th, 2009, 07:22 PM
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Talking Update on the pooch

Quote:
Originally Posted by klmccallum View Post
Do you cover her crate with an old sheet or blanket? That has helped our pup.

Do you put the rug that sits next to your bed into the crate? If she hasn't had any accidents on the rug then maybe laying that rug inside the crate would help too?

It's been a month since I had the benefit of all your kind advice, and I can say that things are much better. Our dog (who we've since named Hermione) is house/crate trained for the most part. In the end, the things that clicked for her were two weeks of tying her to me all day, covering her crate with a blanket (which she responded to immediately), and finally switching to dried beef liver treats for her congratulatory treat when she urinates outside. We are all much more relaxed now and can just enjoy her, rather than fretting all the time.

Nevertheless, we still fret over one thing. She's still an obsessive drinker. Walking her on rainy days is the challenge of a lifetime! If we fill her bowl, she'll drink until she vomits...every time. So we're quite militant about her water now - a half cup at a time. The vet wanted to wait a while before running lots of tests - to see if it was behavioral from her time as a stray or in the shelter. But it's been a month now, so I'm going to take her in and ask for the tests mentioned in posts on obsessive drinking.

I just wanted to post an update for all the wonderful people who responded to my initial plea for help. Your advice was terrific, and my family is grateful.

Thanks again!
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Old October 26th, 2009, 08:59 PM
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So glad that things are better!

While I understand not wanting to let Hermione (great name btw) drink so much that she vomits it back up - make sure that you aren't limiting her water too much. If she does have any kidney issues, that can make the problem worse. A bloodtest is a very good idea, just to see where everything is at. It'll also give you a baseline to see any future changes since you don't have any medical history on her.

Bless you for adopting an elderly dog - and I agree that your son is awesome for wanting one!
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