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  #61  
Old August 27th, 2009, 05:14 PM
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Lindapalm, I've read that the longer a cat doesn't use its litterbox, the harder it is to get them to use it again. Luckily in our case it had only been a matter of weeks, I think in your thread you had said that it's been months. I hope you can find a solution. Perhaps confinement with litterbox and food/water only will retrain your kitty to use the box.

Angus has had no more slip ups this week, but we're so not ready to remove tarps or open doors, he needs to prove himself for a few weeks more I think.
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  #62  
Old August 28th, 2009, 06:10 PM
lindapalm lindapalm is offline
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Stacer, I believe that the longer they go without using the litter box the harder iit is to get them to use it. We have eight cats, so I have no clue whether Rocky is using the litterbox and peeing elsewhere, or just peeing all over the house. Still waiting for him to pee in an empty new box so I can have him tested, but I don't think hes going to. Vet said I can get some crystals to put in the box so he'll pee in them without contaminating the sample. Hes in a large cage in our garage, and I have no clue what I'll do if he has nothing medical wrong with him.
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  #63  
Old August 28th, 2009, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindapalm View Post
(he's snuck out 4-5 times, and sprayed on bushes).
Why not take him on supervised visits so he can spray his territory outside instead of in the house. I think another forum member does this for her cat and it helps the situation inside the house tremendously. He may be VERY territorial and need to tell the outside cats to stay away from his territory. There has been some great advice given on this thread about peeing cats but there are many other threads throughout this forum that have great advice for peeing / spraying cats as well. Have you tried some of the advice posters have given in this thread. You sound very frustrated

Please consider joining the Feline Inappropriate Elimination group for some help as well http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/F...e_Elimination/
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  #64  
Old August 29th, 2009, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Khari View Post
Why not take him on supervised visits so he can spray his territory outside instead of in the house. I think another forum member does this for her cat and it helps the situation inside the house tremendously. He may be VERY territorial and need to tell the outside cats to stay away from his territory. There has been some great advice given on this thread about peeing cats but there are many other threads throughout this forum that have great advice for peeing / spraying cats as well. Have you tried some of the advice posters have given in this thread. You sound very frustrated

Please consider joining the Feline Inappropriate Elimination group for some help as well http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/F...e_Elimination/
That is me. Jasper is very territorial and I live out in the country so there are a lot of stray males around. He will go antsy if he smells a cat and can't get outside to spray, then eventually start in the house.
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  #65  
Old August 30th, 2009, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Stacer View Post
I've read that the longer a cat doesn't use its litterbox, the harder it is to get them to use it again.
I think it more depends on the cat, my girl Duffy was an indoor/outdoor cat until a few years ago when I moved into a 2nd floor apt & she couldn't go out anymore. She hadn't used a litterbox in about 14 years and took to using it again right away with no problems .
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  #66  
Old August 30th, 2009, 10:42 AM
lindapalm lindapalm is offline
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I know male and female cats can both do this, but I think the males are guiltier.
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  #67  
Old February 14th, 2010, 09:11 PM
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Just wanted to give an update on this thread.

I am thrilled to report that Angus hasn't had any accidents since the beginning of September. We've been faithful withthe Cosequin and we think that this is the reason he's doing so well, combined with some other changes we made to the litter area.

He's been a different cat since the Cosequin kicked in. He's been more affectionate, more playful and his temperament has been all round better. He's even tolerating Skylar better, I haven't seen him swat at her for months.

I just wanted to say thanks for all the great advice that was given. I feel like this thread saved my relationship with Angus.
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  #68  
Old April 25th, 2010, 10:59 AM
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Thumbs up Thanks for the info!

I am having the same problems with my cat. The vet said she was probably loosing control with age (almost 16), but it really seems more behavioral to me, as she never goes on the floor, but will seek out something "fabric" to urinate on. I will be implementing some of the changes mentioned here, to see if they help. Just wanted to say a BIG thank you, for giving me a starting place.
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  #69  
Old April 25th, 2010, 08:00 PM
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I'm glad we could be of assistance!

Angus has still been without any problems and we still continue to use the cosequin. Truthfully, I'm afraid to stop using it.
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  #70  
Old June 5th, 2011, 07:28 PM
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So glad you've been able to help Angus overcome this. How has he been this past year?
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  #71  
Old June 5th, 2011, 09:12 PM
Twocents Twocents is offline
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Exclamation Declawing & litter box avoidance

Inappropriate Urination (IE) or peeing outside the litter boxes can have many causes.

I talked with our new enlightened vet about several things & he agrees that IE isn't always a territorial issue. Fearful, sub-dominant cats can also have IE. Pain can cause it, & like others have mentioned, stress & a bad experience in or near the litter box can cause it as well. Our vet is also in agreement that declawed cats often have problems with IE but most vets are unaware of or ignore the connection. Because of this, the public is largely unaware of the problems declawing can cause.

Many rescue groups & shelters DO see the connection.
They agree that declawed cats are more likely to suffer from inappropriate urination. Cats that have this problem are sometimes abused, abandoned, relinquished to shelters, re-homed or put to sleep. This consequence of declawing can be avoided by educating about it & hopefully making declaw surgery obsolete.


Lisa James writes:

Quote:
"I am a cat rescuer. I have worked in the rescue field for 19 years. In that time frame we have had cats from domestic to purebred come through our doors.

99% of declawed cats are turned into animal shelters for one of two behavioral problems. The more rare one is biting. The major one is litter box aversion. Of these cats who will no longer use the box, some can be re-trained, but it takes time, patience, creativity in the owner's imagination, & quite possibly confining in progressively smaller spaces till the cat "gets it" again. Others will never be able to be retrained, despite these methods, & are put to sleep..."
Rest of this article is at http://www.pictures-of-cats.org/decl...ts-to-bad.html


There's an excellent article called "The Declaw Dilemma" that also explains that declawed cats suffer from behaviour problems. It offers rescues & shelters a few great tips about good ways to educate about declawing, http://www.animalsheltering.org/reso...w_dilemma.html - Includes Canadian examples.


Canadian cat rescue group Cats Anonymous, in Orton, Ontario writes:

Quote:
"...Through the years, we have seen many declawed cats surrendered to our shelter for behaviour issues that can be related to being declawed. Over the past two years, 75% of the declawed cats that were surrendered to us had behavioural problems. In that same time frame, only 4% of clawed cats were surrendered to us for the same behavioural reasons. I think those statistics speak for themselves. Studies show that declawing is a very painful procedure that can lead to long term issues .... both physical and emotional."
From page 8 of their Spring 2010 newsletter, article "Paws for Thought... The Declaw Issue", http://www.catsanonymous.ca/Newslett...015%202010.pdf



Holistic vet Dr. Jean Hofve, on her site "Little Big Cat" (http://www.littlebigcat.com) has a lot of good info about feline health, wellness & behaviour. Behaviourist Jackson Galaxy has some helpful article there too (also on his own site, www.JacksonGalaxy.com).

Dr. Jean has been publishing data about the harmful effects of declawing for a few years now.

"Declawing and Science", - Refutes the veterinary associations' claims that declawing is not harmful & helps keep cats in homes:

Quote:
In the most credible, long-term studies, the data show that up to 1/3 of declawed cats develop behavior problems after declawing.

One study documented that 33% of cats developed behavior problems (house soiling or biting) after being declawed. This was the longest follow-up period (5 years) ever studied. (Yeon SC, Flanders JA, Scarlett JM, et al. Attitudes of owners regarding tendonectomy and onychectomy in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 2001;218:43-47.)

While declawing (as a single variable) appears to “save cats’ homes,” analysis using a more reliable statistical method (that accounts for all variables) shows that declawed cats are nearly twice as likely to be relinquished to a shelter than clawed cats (actual odds 1.89 to 1, range 1-3.58). (Patronek, GJ, Glickman LT, Beck AM, et al. Risk factors for relinquishment of cats to an animal shelter. J Am Vet Med Assoc 1996;209:582–588.) From http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/d...g-and-science/

"Physical Consequences of Declawing" by Jean Hofve, DVM

Quote:
"Declawing changes the way the cat’s paws function, and this creates stress on the joints of the paw, wrist, elbow, shoulder, and spine. The cat’s gait changes, as weight is shifted backward from the toes to the large rear pad of the paw.

Research has demonstrated that, after declawing, cats shift their entire weight more toward the hind legs. This is quite a feat, considering that the front legs normally bear about 60% of the cat’s entire weight.

Within 6 months or so, normal weight distribution among the four legs is restored to pre-surgery values. However, changes and stresses within the paw persist and may even worsen due to normal contracture of the severed tendons due to scar tissue formation.

Over time, this altered stress can contribute to the development of arthritis. [This is painful.]

In most older declawed cats, the toes are completely “frozen,” immovable even under deep anesthesia.

Declawing causes observable changes to the cat’s anatomy that are not only visible on radiographs (x-rays) but are obvious to anyone who cares to see them." See photos & x-rays comparing normal cat to declawed ones, http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/p...-of-declawing/
More data & info on declawing at Little Big Cat, http://www.littlebigcat.com/category/declawing/


"Save Our Paws!" site has lots of newer info and links about toe amputations (declawing), http://www.save-our-paws.org/


Declaw Repair Surgery:

"Inappropriate elimination with no other identifiable cause" is one indication a declawed cat might benefit from declaw repair surgery. Declaw repair surgery could help save cats lives if they might otherwise be put to sleep. Dr. Ronald Gaskin does not declaw cats & wishes declaw surgery was no longer available. He has info about how to tell which cats might benefit from declaw repair surgery and has info for vets about it online (videos, PowerPoint presentation), http://www.msvets.com/DeclawRepair.html


If we make this information available to the public and veterinarians, then people could see that declawing causes more problems than it solves.

It's already illegal in many other countries, including those who belong to the EU (European Union).

Quote:
"Regarding tolerance for declawing in veterinary practice, the United States [and Canada are] unusual compared with European countries. Declawing is illegal in many countries around the world, because it is regarded as inhumane. There is growing support of the European Council's Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals, which prohibits declawing...

Further support for the enactment of laws prohibiting declawing has been expressed by the World Small Animal Veterinary Association, whose convention calling for an end to non-therapeutic surgeries, including declawing, ear cropping and tail docking, has been ratified by veterinary associations from Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia Herzegovina, British Columbia, Columbia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Lithuania, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Panama, Poland, South Africa, Spain, Taiwan, United Kingdom and Uruguay."
Sources:
Paw Project FAQs, http://www.pawproject.org/faqs/,
European Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals, Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...of_Pet_Animals.


Please consider joining the open group on Facebook called "The International Coalition Against Declawing",
It offeris information & humane alternatives. http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=...76466325713297
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What part of "Meow" don't you understand?

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Please advocate for animals.
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  #72  
Old June 6th, 2011, 02:13 PM
Twocents Twocents is offline
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Lightbulb

There are so many great suggestions in this thread.

More ideas about preventing and fighting feline stress, pain, arthritis & inflammation which can contribute to inappropriate urination:

Omega-3s Are Essential for Your Cat, by Jean Hofve, DVM,
Dec. 2, 2010, http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/o...-for-your-cat/

Omega-3 Update: more info, more choices,
May 10, 2011, http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutritio...-more-choices/

Antioxidants,
Jan. 22, 2011, http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/antioxidants/
Quote:
"In people, a diet high in fresh fruits and vegetables may contain adequate natural antioxidants. Pets eating commercial food, however, do not get enough appropriate antioxidants in the diet."

"**Warning** The popular antioxidant for people, alpha-lipoic acid, is fine for dogs, but relatively toxic to cats. Avoid it, or at least limit it to no more than 15 mg per day."

Arthritis in Cats,
Nov. 17, 2010, http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/arthritis-in-cats/


Geriatric Cats, Common health concerns,
by Jean Hofve, DVM,
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/geriatric-cats/


Obesity contributes to painful joints & other health problems.

See:
Feline Obesity: An Epidemic of Fat Cats,
by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM from Catinfo.org,
Last updated June, 2010, http://catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity

The Right Weight Loss Program for Cats!,
by Jean Hofve, DVM
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/t...gram-for-cats/


Quote:
Cystitis: Stress can cause cystitis. Cystitis is painful. Pain is very stressful. See the vicious cycle?

"Cystitis can be a very painful condition! Cystitis, also known as Interstitial Cystitis, refers to inflammation of the bladder wall leading to painful, frequent voiding of small amounts of urine.

The patient will often start to associate the litter box with his/her pain. This can lead to litter box aversion which causes the patient to urinate elsewhere. In these cases, there may be fewer urine balls in the litter box than usual.

Important: These cats need pain medication such as buprenorphine (Buprinex).

What causes cystitis? I wish that the veterinary community knew the answer to that question in all cases.

What we do know is that cystitis often appears to be linked to stress and the highly concentrated urine that results from being fed a water-depleted (dry food) diet may also be a significant factor in some cats. The concentration of urine is reflected by the urine specific gravity (USG) number found on the urinalysis report...

It's frustrating to see these poor cats leaving the veterinary clinic with no pain medication!

To repeat: We know that stress plays an important role in the cause of cystitis. Can you think of anything more stressful than pain?

See the vicious cycle? Stress can cause cystitis. Cystitis is painful. Pain is very stressful."

...Treatments for sterile cystitis include:
  • pain medication

  • increasing water consumption with a canned food diet, etc.

  • decrease the patient's stress - not always easy since cats can be very 'silent' in their stress and we may not always be aware of what is bothering them

  • glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate products such as injectable Adequan, or oral products such as Cosequin, Dasequin, or Trixsyn may help

Tricks used to increase water consumption: (see article by Dr. Lisa Pierson)
See Feline Urinary Tract Health:
Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection
,
by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM, from Catinfo.org,
http://catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth



Note: Water Fountain Study showed that they did not help cats consume more water.
Source: Winn Feline Foundation Blog,
Sept. 23, 2010, http://winnfelinehealth.blogspot.com...-for-cats.html


Quote:
Slippery Elm:

"In the case of cystitis (bladder inflammation), Slippery Elm is thought to soothe the bladder lining. However, it is somewhat high in magnesium, so may be contraindicated in dogs who have an active infection with an elevated urinary pH, where struvite crystal formation may be a risk. (In cats, urinary tract infections are very rarely bacterial.) Slippery Elm bark contains natural pentosans, a class of complex sugars that contains the same compound found in the drug “Elmiron®,”the major pain-relieving treatment for interstitial cystitis (IC) in women. Pentosan has been used by the pharmaceutical industry as an anti-coagulant and anti-inflammatory for more than 40 years. (Anti-coagulant effects are not seen with normal oral administration.) Since bladder disease in cats is very similar to that in women, slippery elm may be especially beneficial for our feline friends. Small, frequent dosages of pentosan has been shown in humans to be more effective than single large doses."
See Slippery Elm,
By Jean Hofve, DVM
Nov. 18, 2010, http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/


Why Did My Cat Pee Outside the Litterbox?
By Jean Hofve, DVM,
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/w...the-litterbox/


Spraying and Territorial Stress,
By Jackson Galaxy, cat behaviourist,
http://www.littlebigcat.com/behavior...torial-stress/


Do-It -Yourself Bach Flower Essences,
By Jean Hofve, DVM,
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/d...ower-essences/


Aromatherapy and Essential Oils for Pets,
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/a...oils-for-pets/


Catnip. Fresh, home-grown catnip can have a calming effect when eaten. Sometimes dried catnip is more potent and can cause problems.
By Jackson Galaxy,
http://www.littlebigcat.com/fun-stuff/catnip/


Cat-to-Cat Introductions,
By Jackson Galaxy,
http://www.littlebigcat.com/behavior...introductions/
If you go too fast, you will jeopardize the whole process. If it doesn't go well, you might have to start over.




Quote:
Photo: "Opie's case is a very good illustration of the fact that proper nutrition (NO dry food) is a 'pay me now or pay me later' issue." ~ Dr. Lisa A. Pierson, http://catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth
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