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Old December 28th, 2008, 12:00 PM
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Allergic to all foods - any suggestions???

Bobby has tested (using kinesiology) allergic to all foods - he has now reacted to the Purina Hypoallergenic food and to a Vegetarian Food I recently tried.

Does anyone have any suggestions???

We have tried raw, grain free kibble, kibble with grain, low protein kibble, high protein kibble, hypoallergenic foods (several), vegetarian, I cooked for him, and probably a few more that I don't remember - and now I'm really at my wits end on what to do.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 12:10 PM
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Holy crap Jan , there's no more food left

He's not good on raw ? I'm guessing you tried fish formulas (Fromm has many of them)
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Old December 28th, 2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanM View Post
.....
We have tried raw, grain free kibble, kibble with grain, low protein kibble, high protein kibble, hypoallergenic foods (several), vegetarian, I cooked for him, and probably a few more that I don't remember - and now I'm really at my wits end on what to do.
When you say he's allergic to "all foods," are you referring to all protein sources, all grain sources, all vegetables, etc.? He's allergic to bison, elk, duck, goose, pheasant, chicken, beef, fish, carrots, broccoli, apples, etc.? EVERYTHING? That is not possible.

How much time has elapsed between each type of food you've fed?? Please note that when dog consumes something they're 'allergic' to, those allergens can remain in their system for 3-6 months thereafter. So, if you're switching between foods within a short amount of time, it would appear that they're allergic to everything because they're still reacting to what was fed previously, or before that, or before that, etc.

It takes a lot of time (for some dogs) to work those allergens out of the body. AND, because you were feeding a commercial food prior to introducing noncommercial foods, your dog was likely experiencing detoxification, which can increase any symptoms they're experiencing.

Please refer to the article on this page regarding detoxification & it should clear things up a bit (it is in the middle):

http://heavenlyblessingsconsulting.com/MY_ARTICLES.html

Last edited by Goldens4Ever; December 28th, 2008 at 12:45 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
We have tried raw
What were you feeding him when feeding raw? This could make a huge difference...
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Old December 28th, 2008, 01:43 PM
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Holy crap Jan , there's no more food left

He's not good on raw ? I'm guessing you tried fish formulas (Fromm has many of them)
Yup - tried the fish - in kibble and fresh and cooked - no go..
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Old December 28th, 2008, 01:48 PM
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When you say he's allergic to "all foods," are you referring to all protein sources, all grain sources, all vegetables, etc.? He's allergic to bison, elk, duck, goose, pheasant, chicken, beef, fish, carrots, broccoli, apples, etc.? EVERYTHING? That is not possible. Also, all fish are different, so when you say he's "allergic to fish," are you referring to all of them: sardines, white fish, cod, salmon, halibut, perch, etc.?

How much time has elapsed between each type of food you've fed?? Please note that when dog consumes something they're 'allergic' to, those allergens can remain in their system for 3-6 months thereafter. So, if you're switching between foods within a short amount of time, it would appear that they're allergic to everything because they're still reacting to what was fed previously, or before that, or before that, etc.

It takes a lot of time (for some dogs) to work those allergens out of the body. AND, because you were feeding a commercial food prior to introducing noncommercial foods, your dog was likely experiencing detoxification, which can increase any symptoms they're experiencing.

Please refer to the article on this page regarding detoxification & it should clear things up a bit (it is in the middle):

http://heavenlyblessingsconsulting.com/MY_ARTICLES.html
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Old December 28th, 2008, 01:50 PM
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When you gut him tested, what was he allergic to? I know that Spencer is allergic to chicken in kibble and a lot of dogs are much more sensitive than he is. A lot of the fish based foods tend to have chicken fat in them as well. Usually when your dog reacts to multiple kibbles, people will say to go RAW (not that it is a bad thing, just some owners don't feel comfortable feeding RAW). You need to compare what has been in each of the foods you are feeding and see if there are any similarities. What are his reactions to the food when you feed it?
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Old December 28th, 2008, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldens4Ever View Post
When you say he's allergic to "all foods," are you referring to all protein sources, all grain sources, all vegetables, etc.? He's allergic to bison, elk, duck, goose, pheasant, chicken, beef, fish, carrots, broccoli, apples, etc.? EVERYTHING? That is not possible.

How much time has elapsed between each type of food you've fed?? Please note that when dog consumes something they're 'allergic' to, those allergens can remain in their system for 3-6 months thereafter. So, if you're switching between foods within a short amount of time, it would appear that they're allergic to everything because they're still reacting to what was fed previously, or before that, or before that, etc.

It takes a lot of time (for some dogs) to work those allergens out of the body. AND, because you were feeding a commercial food prior to introducing noncommercial foods, your dog was likely experiencing detoxification, which can increase any symptoms they're experiencing.

Please refer to the article on this page regarding detoxification & it should clear things up a bit (it is in the middle):

http://heavenlyblessingsconsulting.com/MY_ARTICLES.html
Thanks for the article - Bobby has experienced most of the "symptoms" mentioned - except vomiting but regardless, he gets so bad that there is no way I can leave him on a food to see if he will eventually cleanse. His auto-immune system is, according to the vet, totally shot - if that helps any.

His reaction to foods is first his skin gets an ugly red/purple colour then small sores develop - they bleed. It progresses to his body to where he will stagger and fall. His eyesight is going and when he is in a generally "bad" state, it's worse.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Khari View Post
What were you feeding him when feeding raw? This could make a huge difference...
We tried chicken, bison, goat, beef - and possibly more (can't remember now but I do know I tried everything they had at the time). Veggies were mixed in with it too.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JanM View Post
We tried chicken, bison, goat, beef - and possibly more (can't remember now but I do know I tried everything they had at the time). ....
How much time has elapsed between each type of food you've fed?? Please note that when dog consumes something they're 'allergic' to, those allergens can remain in their system for 3-6 months thereafter. So, if you're switching between foods within a short amount of time, it would appear that they're allergic to everything because they're still reacting to what was fed previously, or before that, or before that, etc.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldens4Ever View Post
How much time has elapsed between each type of food you've fed?? Please note that when dog consumes something they're 'allergic' to, those allergens can remain in their system for 3-6 months thereafter. So, if you're switching between foods within a short amount of time, it would appear that they're allergic to everything because they're still reacting to what was fed previously, or before that, or before that, etc.
The time has depended on his reaction to a new food. He was fine with my cooking his food for about 6 months - and that's the longest he was ever on any food - others have been 1 month or less, some 2 months. I did try going back to a food previously tried - after about a 6 month lapse - nope - he reacted to it almost immediately - within a day or two.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 02:30 PM
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Have you tried each food protein seperately?

We feed raw and have been doing so for many years. When we first started Luke on raw he was doing great. Then he developed allergies about a year later. We did not take him for testing at the vet. What we did was an elimination diet. This I had to do personally for myself too in the past. Huge pain in the ass but gotta be done

We fed beef (just plain beef...nothing else) for about 2 to 3 months and there was no reaction. Then we fed chicken (again just plain chicken) for about 1 month and he had a reaction. So we went back to beef for another month or so till his reactions were completely gone. Then we tried turkey for another month and he had a reaction. Gone back to beef for another month till it cleared up and tried pork for 2 to 3 months with no reaction. Then we went to lamb for another 2 to 3 months with no reaction. And with each food we just kept doing the same thing. So it was a LONG process but so worth it. But you have to stick to just 1 food nothing else for a while and then you know you can eliminate that one food. Hope that makes sense
Now we know what he is allergic to...... all poultry.

Honestly there has to be something your poor little baby can eat.
I have heard that sometimes dogs will develop reactions to certain foods because they eat too much of it. Not sure if that is true or not???
Good luck. I know its tough road but once you get it figured out your dog will feel so much better
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Old December 28th, 2008, 02:32 PM
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When dealing with allergies, regardless if they're food or environmentally related, it is essential to provide routine grooming as well (which you may already do). I noticed that you have Golden Retrievers, which have a lot of grooming demands. It is absolutely vital that they get shampooed with an appropriate product to routinely cleanse the skin, get their ears cleaned regularly with an appropriate product, & get their ears, paws, skin, & bottoms trimmed routinely. Everything goes hand-in-hand like a delicate circle. If one area is lacking, then it will effect everything else within the circle.

For example, allergies can lead to yeasty ear infections. If the ears are not routinely kept cleaned & the inner ear hair is not kept trimmed, it will effect the impact of the nutritional regimen. The same applies to their skin, paws, etc.

Please refer to this article, which provides a detailed explanation of the specific grooming needs of many dogs:

http://heavenlyblessingsconsulting.com/MY_ARTICLES.html
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Old December 28th, 2008, 02:47 PM
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Quoted by BeagleMum
Usually when your dog reacts to multiple kibbles, people will say to go RAW (not that it is a bad thing, just some owners don't feel comfortable feeding RAW).
Most people (me included) will recommend Raw because you can stick to one type of meat with no fillers or extra ingrdients. Kibble has many different fillers, meats, grains, rice, corn, veggies that many pets are allergic to. So it is really hard to eliminate the source your pet is allergic to.

If your dog is having these types of allergic reactions you will have to try one meat at a time as recommended above. Eliminate one by one. No vegetables No nothing except for meat/bone/organs from the same meat source.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldens4Ever View Post
When dealing with allergies, regardless if they're food or environmentally related, it is essential to provide routine grooming as well (which you may already do). I noticed that you have Golden Retrievers, which have a lot of grooming demands. It is absolutely vital that they get shampooed with an appropriate product to routinely cleanse the skin, get their ears cleaned regularly with an appropriate product, & get their ears, paws, skin, & bottoms trimmed routinely. Everything goes hand-in-hand like a delicate circle. If one area is lacking, then it will effect everything else within the circle.

For example, allergies can lead to yeasty ear infections. If the ears are not routinely kept cleaned & the inner ear hair is not kept trimmed, it will effect the impact of the nutritional regimen. The same applies to their skin, paws, etc.

Please refer to this article, which provides a detailed explanation of the specific grooming needs of many dogs:

http://heavenlyblessingsconsulting.com/MY_ARTICLES.html
Both Bobby and Amber get a good grooming at least every second day - I use a bristle brush, a steel comb, a shedding comb and a regular hair brush to finish off. They both get pedicures every 4 weeks at which time they get clipped by the groomer. I do their ears with Coconut Oil whenever needed - and it isn't very often. So I would say they are well groomed. Neither dog has had an ear infection - a couple of times there has been was buildup but it's taken off pretty quick so it doesn't get a chance to fester into a real infection. I don't routinely shampoo them - I don't believe in shampooing animals unless it is absolutely necessary because it removes the natural oils in their hair which they need for protection. Other than that, I'd say they are reasonably well taken care of in that department.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:30 PM
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Most people (me included) will recommend Raw because you can stick to one type of meat with no fillers or extra ingrdients. Kibble has many different fillers, meats, grains, rice, corn, veggies that many pets are allergic to. So it is really hard to eliminate the source your pet is allergic to.

If your dog is having these types of allergic reactions you will have to try one meat at a time as recommended above. Eliminate one by one. No vegetables No nothing except for meat/bone/organs from the same meat source.
I did try the elimination routine when we tried Raw but he had diarrhea so bad on all raw meats that I stopped. This was when he was a puppy. I really can't remember how long he was on each one but I do remember that both of us were absolutely miserable with his diarrhea - he was squirting liquid and had to go all the time - day and night. It wasn't a nice time for time for either of us..
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:32 PM
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His reaction to foods is first his skin gets an ugly red/purple colour then small sores develop - they bleed. It progresses to his body to where he will stagger and fall. His eyesight is going and when he is in a generally "bad" state, it's worse.
Unless he is suffering from severe, life-threatening malnutrition, a food allergy/ sensitivity should have no effect on his muscle strength, balance or his eyesight. Is there something else going on ?
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:35 PM
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Both Bobby and Amber get a good grooming at least every second day - I use a bristle brush, a steel comb, a shedding comb and a regular hair brush to finish off. They both get pedicures every 4 weeks at which time they get clipped by the groomer. I do their ears with Coconut Oil whenever needed - and it isn't very often. So I would say they are well groomed. Neither dog has had an ear infection - a couple of times there has been was buildup but it's taken off pretty quick so it doesn't get a chance to fester into a real infection. I don't routinely shampoo them - I don't believe in shampooing animals unless it is absolutely necessary because it removes the natural oils in their hair which they need for protection. Other than that, I'd say they are reasonably well taken care of in that department.
Sounds like you do a great job. But please note that coconut oil is not an ear cleaner. To clean ears, the cleaner needs to be poured into the ear & rubbed around (this is called flushing). If not done in this fashion, the fluid is unable to drain down into the horizontal canal & the ear drum sits at the base of the horizontal canal.

Most shampoo products strip the natural oils from their skin; however, others actually contain jojoba oil, which penetrates into 3 layers of the skin. If the skin isn't routinely cleansed, they get a build up of particles within the hair follicles, which can cause problems. I'm a specialist & these are the facts.

All this is discussed in my article about golden retriever grooming.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:36 PM
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Unless he is suffering from severe, life-threatening malnutrition, a food allergy/ sensitivity should have no effect on his muscle strength, balance or his eyesight...
You are correct.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:38 PM
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Unless he is suffering from severe, life-threatening malnutrition, a food allergy/ sensitivity should have no effect on his muscle strength, balance or his eyesight. Is there something else going on ?
What I know for sure:
- his auto-immune system is totally compromised
- his eyesight comes and goes
- he has dysplasia in his right hip
- he has a disc that presses on his spinal cord
- food allergies/sensitivities

I'm posting a picture of him taken in October of this year - he turned 4 in July. His muzzle has turned white over the past year.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:49 PM
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What a cutie! Poor little guy :sad: I feel awful for him.

What were you feeding when you fed raw? was it just meat or bone too?
Also what kind of reactions does he have when you say he is allergic? hives? throwing up? diaherria?

Its so upsetting when our babies are sick.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:52 PM
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Oopos sorry I re read I must have skipped the reactions part of the post

What does your vet recommend?
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:54 PM
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We tried chicken, bison, goat, beef - and possibly more (can't remember now but I do know I tried everything they had at the time). Veggies were mixed in with it too.
what kind of veggies?
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:58 PM
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What a cutie! Poor little guy :sad: I feel awful for him.

What were you feeding when you fed raw? was it just meat or bone too?
Also what kind of reactions does he have when you say he is allergic? hives? throwing up? diaherria?

Its so upsetting when our babies are sick.
When we tried raw it was meat only - but he always got bones anyway. Now, though, he can only enjoy the bison smoked bone without getting diarrhea.

Upsetting is right! I am literally at my wits end - the vets only want him on heavy meds - when the vet wanted to go to prednisone I backed right off. He was on a steroid and he was worse (energy-wise) than before the meds. He now gets glucosamine, acidophilus, salmon oil and chlorella and on this combination he has been doing extremely well - no flare ups of his arthritis (sorry, I forgot to include that in the "known" in a previous post).. He is an extremely lovable boy - a brat when he's feeling well though
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Old December 28th, 2008, 04:06 PM
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Honestly it seems quite impossible that your dog is allergic to every singe protien source under the sun.
I really think you need to give more time for detox and stay away from the purina hypoallergenic foods.

Are you feeding him treats while switching foods?
Have you tried foods with only meat in them ( innova RM as an example)?
When you tried raw, was it prepakaged? If so, there are alot of additives in those, by additives I mean stuff that really doesn't need to be there.
On raw did you give broad spectrum digestive enzymes to ease the transition and help out with the digestive juices?
When you did your homecooked meals that seem to be the only thing he could eat, what was the daily meal? What did it consist of? How many protien sources were used, was there rice in the meal, or potatoes?
Have you tried duck as the only protien source in his meals? ( raw or cooked) as duck is quite low on the allergenic scale.

How often are you switching foods? How long of a time are you giving a new food before switching again.
If you are doing this too frequently this could be a main concern in the allergies. Too much of everything in his system and not enough time for one source to work.
It must really be hard to be in this situation but I really think you need to find some food with only one protien source and absolutely no grains or other stuff in it and give it a good go.
Have you tried Solid Gold Wolf King? Its made with buffalo and salmon, I'm not exactly thrilled with the food myself, but those are 2 very different protien sources that you are not going to find in many foods.

I can only question how he is managing to survive at all if there is nothing he can possibly eat?
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Old December 28th, 2008, 04:19 PM
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I would be inclined to try the raw diet again. I know you have tried it before but it sounds like you had mixed other things in like veggies too. And not sure if you gave the proper time to a single meat source. Also were you feeding premade raw? Or did you do it on your own???

If I were you I would start with chicken meat and chicken backs/frames/carcasses. Do just that for a month or 2 and see how it goes. You'll have to eliminate all other things that your dog eats as well (such as treats and any type of vitamins or supplements that your giving). I don't give mine veggies (thats just me and there is a whole huge debate about that as some people do) but some dogs don't digest veggies very well.
See how your dog does on the chicken and then go from there.

Here are some sites on feeding raw:

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm
http://www.rawlearning.com/

Do as much research as possible about the raw diet. The more you learn the more you know and you will better be able to help your dog.

I suggest this because I went threw this myself first hand with Luke. He is allergic to all poultry and wheat, and he sufferred quite a bit before we discovered it. Alot of the vets were just medicating him with antibiotics and steroids. This really does just add to the problem more so than helped.

Another thing that I found with Luke is that he is allergic to all vaccines. We stopped vaccinating him as well. This was on recommendation by our vet actually about 4 years ago. This too is a very touchy subject and people have HUGE opinions and debates about it but I know it works for us and Luke has been so healthy ever since we stopped feeding him poultry and wheat and stopped his vaccines.
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  #27  
Old December 28th, 2008, 04:25 PM
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When he had his last blood work done ~ are all his organs (liver, pancreas and kidneys esp.) are doing what they should be doing? And the results of fecal samples taken on a regular basis?

Does he take prescribed medication of any kind on a regular basis? Have you ever tried eliminating the supplements to see if the digestion improves?

Any of the others in your household (furry and skins) have any "odd" ( you know what I mean) problems?
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  #28  
Old December 28th, 2008, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanM View Post
When we tried raw it was meat only - but he always got bones anyway. Now, though, he can only enjoy the bison smoked bone without getting diarrhea.
The Bison smoked bone probably has spices in it for smoking and curing. I would be inclined to not give that to him anymore. Its not raw its cooked by smoking with spices and additives.
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Owned By:
Luke - Male Brindle Boxer - DOB Feb. 2003
Leia - Female Fawn Boxer - DOB July 2004 (RESCUE) went to the bridge Nov. 2011
Han Solo - Male Flashy Fawn Boxer - DOB Oct. 2004 (RESCUE)
Chewie - Male White Boxer - DOB Aug. 2007 (RESCUE)
Geordi - Male Fawn Boxer - DOB 2009

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Mohandas Gandhi -

~Until there are none, rescue one ~

www.wbbr.ca
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  #29  
Old December 28th, 2008, 04:29 PM
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hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
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Our Evan had inflammatory bowel disease--it manifested as an allergy to protein. Once he was on a protein, inflammation would develop over a few months in response to it and we'd have to switch proteins. After a while, novel proteins are hard to find.

We eventually went to the hydrolyzed protein foods--the proteins are broken into shorter strings of amino acids that the body theoretically doesn't recognize as proteins--but it sounds like Bobby is reacting to the HA now, as well?

Jan, you might want to reconsider a course of pred. With Evan, we had him on pred for a few months, just to knock back the inflammation. We found that if we tried new proteins and he had any residual inflammation in his intestine from the old one, it made the new intolerance develop faster. So we used pred to get rid of the inflammation, then put him on Hills' version of hypoallergenic food--I think it was called ZD. After he was on the new food, we weaned him off the pred and were able to control his IBD with diet alone. We actually fed a mix of HA and ZD since HA didn't have enough flavor to tempt him to eat and ZD had too much. That might not work for Bobby, though, if he's already intolerant of the HA.

Good luck with this! It's a difficult challenge, that's for sure! for Bobby!
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Old December 28th, 2008, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totallyhip View Post
Another thing that I found with Luke is that he is allergic to all vaccines.
Somewhere around here on pets.ca is a huge thread I and others wrote about vaccinosis. And I was wondering about that amongst other things myself.

From a food perspective...I'm not sure I agree about plunging right back into raw though. And, I personally would not do it with chicken. Although it is generally easier to digest, it is more prone to salmonella and listeria and with a dog with huge gut issues already I would worry about all the other that commercially raised chickens are fed.

Personally I would also stay away from all commercially prepared foods and go back to cooking a single protein. No vegges, no grains, no extra treats, no nothing. You mentioned that you had some success with beef, have tried bison once and that he can still eat the bones. If you can find a source for FRESH-from the-slaughterhouse certified organic beef (that may be less expensive than bison), I'd go in that direction. I would be (being me ) cook it in a cast iron fry pan with just enough organic butter to oil up the pan.

I'm also going to post a question in health about colostrum as a separate thread Jan as I'm curious whether those with animals IBD/ colitis/ Crohn's have ever found success with it.

But, I do think there's more to this than food.
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