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  #1  
Old October 19th, 2008, 01:39 PM
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My Betta has Popeye....now what

OK, last week I noticed my Betta had Popeye. I wasn;t sure what to do so I went on the internet for info. I found some site that suggested I use Amoxicilin. I got some and crushed it. I have been putting it in the tank...little at a time for the week. I have also been changing its water everyday. Now I know it wasn;t the water because the other betta seems fine.
After one week the eye has come down a lot but it still looks cloudy, which probably means he lost his eye.

Now I went out got them a bigger tank with a temperture control to make sure its always warm and the tank is a lot bigger.

My question is this. Should I contiue giving anti biotics and if so, how long. All petstores have told me 10 different solutions....is my Betta ok now or do I continue with the Amoxicilin? By the way he is very active since I got him the new tank. I put a divider in so that they can be in one tank but can not attack each other.

Advice needed. First time Betta person
Thanks
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Old October 19th, 2008, 03:51 PM
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hmmm.... so you have the two bettas in the same water?? is it heated? and are you FEEDING the amox??

good for you doing WC's daily!! thats probably the best thing you could have done. aside form that, antibacterial fish food (crushed if need be) and maybe a little AQUARIUM salt (1tbs/5g).

what usually causes popeye is poor water quality. that loosely depends on the fish. one may have a lesser tolerance to poor water than the other. it could also be cooler temps or fluxuating temps or pH.... if you keep the water fairly clean (ie they are in more than a gallon each and they get 50% changed out weekly) they should be fine water quality wise.

do you know anything about the nitrogen cycle? disrupting that could also cause all sorts of badness.

if you are treating topically, treat for 14 days with amox. if symptoms do not clear, feed antibacterial food for 14 days. if you are treating the water with amox, do daily water changes of 75% and redose daily. remove ALL carbon filtration. if you cant find antibacterial food, you can try the aquarium salt and daily water changes. if you dont have a test kit for your nitrogen cycle, pleease try to get a water sample to your local fish store to get the nitrites/nitrates/pH/ammonia tested. WRITE down the values and bring them back if you can. try to get a sample from BEFORE a water change ok??

my reply will likely be from my Wii.... hope youre good at cyphering!!!!! good luck with your betta buddy!!

-ashley
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Old October 20th, 2008, 10:09 AM
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ThanKs Want4rain.
I actually had them seperated when I treated the sick one. I crushed the pill to a fine powder and sprinkled ~1/16 on top of water.

I now got a bigger tank with a heater and filter and today for the first time he ate. I stopped the amox because they share the same tank. With the change in temp, they sem more active. For the first 1/2 hour they attacked each other thru the screen, but that died down and now they ignore each other. i will go and get some aquarium salt to add to the tank. i will also take a sample of water down to the store and let them test it. Not that any of the numbers will mean anything to me, but for now I am just thrilled to see him back in action. As to the water, I know it was very clean. I took off 1/2 water every day since I got them because their bowls were so small. I used a turkey baster to collect all their droppings, so I am hoping that he was just more sensitive to temp and bacteria.
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Old October 20th, 2008, 11:27 AM
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its not uncommon to see lots of sick bettas tween now and dec. unheated tanks feel change from seasons a lot. heat in new tank? looking better at all? write down values please. you know someone w/ a tank?

-ash
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Old October 21st, 2008, 07:22 PM
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Ok..Want4rain, I did the water test and here are the results.
Amonia - .25
(NH3/NH+4)

Nitrite (NO2) - .25

Nitrate ( NO3) - 0

PH - 6.0

The lady at the fish Store also told me not to put a filter in the water because Bettas don;t like it and they can die. Now I know the Betta that has the tube part is always next to the tibe that brings in the water, like he's stuck....the other guy seems to have made a full recover...I hope.
So I remove the filter? the tank is 5 gallons. have you heard of a Fluval 1 filter...aparently they should be ok for Bettas....any ideas? Thanks

Last edited by cpietra16; October 22nd, 2008 at 11:24 AM. Reason: add info
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Old October 22nd, 2008, 11:03 PM
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the best person to judge whether your bettas enjoy the filter or not. if they have a hard time finding a resting place or are getting blown all over the place, take it out. all of my betta tanks have filters. ive never HAD a fluval 1 but i have a link below that should help with explaining why a filter is important for reasons other than yuck collecting.

a betta can only die from a filter if they can not rest or eat.


if you plan on keeping them in the same tank, keep up with the water changes. they SAY the hormones are stressful to each other. ive kept a male and a few females with dividers but never two males.

did you say you had a heater?? im feeling a little brain dead and cant remember...

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebI...estcycling.htm

this page explains the small part of the nitrogen cycle that is in an aquarium and how that applies to tank maintenance, feeding and those values i had to bring back.

pH of 6.0 is great. dont ever try to change it. it MAY be lower than 6.0 because there arent any test kits that test lower but bettas appreciate lower pH.

what those values SHOULD be are ammonia-0, nitrites-0, nitrates-below 20ppm (manage those through water changes!)

keep up with the water changes, if you can get the water tested once a week. it should take a month from the time that you first changed the tank over to the new one before the initial cycle completes itself. at that point you shoudl see no ammonia or nitrites but your nitrates should start building.

ok, im off to bed. my brain has finally quit on me. keep us posted on how your betta is doing!! how does his eye look??? sorry it took me so long to get back. i can view posts with my Wii but its *very* difficult to type with a WiiMote.

-ashley
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 08:33 AM
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The eye looks good. He is eating. I might try and find a dark slider so that they can't see each other. They sometimes ignore each other, so I thought it was fine to have them share a take . I will try and put the filter back on...the red one usually is found right up against the tube which got me worried. I 'll see what happens. Thered one now has a pump right over near the gills that fan out when they wantt o fight...it never ends..UGH!!!!!

But thanks for the info
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Old October 24th, 2008, 10:50 PM
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i personally am of the mind set that seeing each other occasionally is good for their blood pressure.

if the one is getting caught up in the intake of the filter, leave it out if you want or put a sponge down there so it defuses it a little??

im a pretty firm believer that all tanks need filters.... does a wonderful job of housing the good bacteria.... although thats not a hard fast rule. ive had some big tanks with small bioloads that probably didnt need filters to keep a stable bacterial colony. you know maybe a bubble stone running along either side of the divider?? that will keep water circulating. did that site i gave you make sense?? its kind of a lot to soak in. *sheepish*

-ashley
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Old November 7th, 2008, 06:12 PM
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Update.

My Betta is all better. THe eyes look sgreat and normal. He can see from both. They are in a 5 gallon tank seperated by a see thru plastic. Last night
(which is still a mystery) one of the Bettas got on to the other side and stayed there all night. I was shocked to find them both swimming side by side alive and well.One is alot more dominant than the other but I was surprised to see they were not fighting.
Anyway all is well and they are both back in there own side ( no reason to push my luck). thank-you want4rain for all your help and support.
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Old November 7th, 2008, 11:00 PM
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sure! ive heard of males getting along. rare. if you wanna try it, set up a well planted 20g long with a school of dither(6-10 tetras, endlers, threadfins) fish, maybe 6-10 cory cats and let them loose! i would but i am aware i have MTS (multiple tank syndrome).

-ash
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Old November 16th, 2008, 10:17 PM
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want4rain...need you help..

I think I'm losing him again....help. He is always up in the corner of the tank and when he breaths his gill on his left side seems to open and another layer os exposed. The other betta does not have this problem...I changed the water and I'm not sure what to look for now. I attached some pictures.



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Old November 16th, 2008, 10:19 PM
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want4rain...need you help..

I think I'm losing him again....help. He is always up in the corner of the tank and when he breaths his gill on his left side seems to open and another layer os exposed. The other betta does not have this problem...I changed the water and I'm not sure what to look for now. I attached some pictures. He also seems to be losing his blue color????Is that possible?



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Old November 17th, 2008, 12:09 PM
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cant type now, will this evening!
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Old November 17th, 2008, 11:03 PM
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im a little unsure about this but it sounds like clamping.... are you regularly doing water changes?? you should be doing 30-50% when fish are sick daily or every other day of things get too busy.

in most cases its poor water quality that makes them sick to begin with. when you swapped tanks you killed your nitrogen cycle. it takes some time to reestablish. in the mean time every time your fish eats, breathes, he is putting out ammonia.

its been plenty of time for your nitrogen cycle to get back to full working order or pretty darned close unless you scrubbed the sides of the tank or changed your filter media out.

keep up the water changes, keep up with the salt treatment and hope its somethign that will work itself out. i hesitate to suggest medicating (NOT TOPICAL OR SOMETHING ADDED TO THE WATER!!!) without knowing exactly whats wrong.... maybe you can pick up some antibacterial food in case some other symptom shows up other than loss of color and fin clamping....


simply put though, get some salt(3tbs for the entire tank) in there if you dont already, keep up water changes (remembering salt doesnt evaporate so top off with fresh water before performing a water change) and give it time. look for puffy white clouds on his body, white salty looking spots....
oh, run some carbon.

-ashley
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Old November 18th, 2008, 07:36 PM
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I'm letting this guy down....what can I do?

http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m...t=MOV02884.flv

can you tell me if this is normal? The other betta who shares the same water is fine...eats and swims....???

Last edited by cpietra16; November 18th, 2008 at 08:26 PM.
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Old November 19th, 2008, 01:26 PM
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crud, im not sure what i need to do to update this thing right now but since its basically back to its 'out of the box' status, i have oodles of updates such as installing flash. i need the next step in my OS to get that.... and i think i need to talk to a friend about it... or something. not sure. i will look either tonight when i get home on Chris' laptop or i will hopefully be able to look tomorrow evening.

how long have you had the sick betta? are you sure he isnt flairing at the other betta and thats why he looks so strange??

i would also suggest picking up a small bottle of clove oil. just in case things take a turn for the worse.

-ash
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Old November 19th, 2008, 07:45 PM
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Hi want4rain,
Well I looked up the syptoms and my betta may have swimm bladder disorder...no cure and it could be bacterial. Do you think it may be realted to his popeye that started this whole down hill cycle...
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Old November 19th, 2008, 10:55 PM
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swim bladder is also water quality (in bettas typically anyway... goldfish on the other hand...) but switching the tanks woudl have done that. it sucks but thats the way it is sometimes!! you can FEED antibiotics. Jungle has a good well rounded antibacterial food.

-ashley
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Old November 20th, 2008, 07:22 AM
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Aqua passed away early this morning. :sad: Boy did we try everything. I made him a ledge so that he would not have to swim to long up for air...but it obviously didn't help.
The other Betta seems to be unaffected by water change, food, filters...I guess he is stronger.

Thanks want4rain, for all your input
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Old November 21st, 2008, 01:04 PM
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im sorry to hear that!!

we never know how old these guys are before we get them. the longer they live in those little cups, the shorter their lives are because of poor water quality. he also could have had a tumor, they are very over bred... genetic diseases...

:sad: rest in peace little guy! hope you find lots of girls to terrorize in the great fish bowl in the sky.

-ash
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Old November 21st, 2008, 01:18 PM
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and yes, some are just that much stronger than others. before i knew anythign abotu fish i put one poor guy through suffocation (a closed container for travel), my children over feeding him... 3 month water changes (of which i SCRUBBED the entire tank....BAD)... he loved to be 4 years old. i had another betta that had perfect water quality, fed a variety of live foods and prepared foods, live plants... plenty of space.... and didnt last 4 months. *shrugs*

*hugs hugs hugs* im sorry i couldnt be more help.

-ash
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Old November 21st, 2008, 08:25 PM
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Are you kidding, You were a great help. I know alot more about Betta because of what you taught me.
We buried Aqua outside today and my kids were happy to see him go to heaven.


Now FireBall has the whole tank to himself. I hope I don't lose him too. I changed the filter ( 3rd time) to an Eilite Filter which has a less powerful flow...and FireBall, my red betta now has silver spots under his chin....now what???????I think I should stick to cats, bunnies and dogs
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 10:05 AM
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silver spots like the scales changed color or silver spots like he has a salty beard??? you think you can get a picture of that??? i can help if you need advice on how to take a pic of a fish (boy ive spent MANY hours trying!!!!)

when you change the filter are you puting the old media in the new filter???

your filter is a high flow area, great place for the nitrifying bacteria to get loads of waste to eat.... when you change the filter body itself you are removing what lives on that hard surface.... when you change the filter MEDIA you are taking away all of the bacteria that built up on that.

in an established tank most of the bacteria would live in the gravel because thats where most of the poop collects but in a fairly new tank, it has not had the chance to collect there.

if its salty spots and not just scale color change (which is normal for SOME bettas, i have one thats completely changed color!!! neat huh?) you need to slowly raise the temp until its 30.6, maybe as high as 30.7 but not any higher than that and add AQUARIUM salt at 4tbs per 10g. this can be approximate. make sure you top off the water before performing water changes.... and do LOTS of water changes. make sure the water gets well moved for the added oxygen because the water holds less at higher temps.

google around "ICH salt treatment" and "ICH heat treatment", both will give you great information as to WHY i suggest taking this route. i have successfully treated with salt alone and heat alone. thats very important in making sure this problem doesnt come back and how it works in relation to your tank cycling.

the simple bulleted list of what to do on a daily basis AFTER you take a day to slowly raise the salt and temp of the tank is this-

to get ready for a water change-
premix enough salt(4tbs) in about 1cup of hot water for the entire tank.
top off your tank with fresh, unsalted water
vacuum gravel WELL
guess how much water was removed... if you removed 3 gallons of water from the tank refill with fresh water adding approximately 1/3rd of the premixed hot(or warm water thats not hot anymore) with salt in it to add back the salt treatment.


its important to make sure the new water is as warm as the tank water. the high temp will stress your fish a great deal (but not as much as soem of those meds out there!!!!) and also the parasite will possibly reproduce if you let the temp drop.

anyway, my son has pinned my husband in a closet. i have to go let him out.

-ashley
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 11:06 AM
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he is also very hyper. I gave him some cooked pea incase he too is constipated. Apparently it happens alot. I haven't seen any waste from him in a while. Keeping Bettas alie is ridiculous.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 11:57 AM
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well GOOD NEWS!!! thats completely normal (from what i can tell, sun is shining on my monitor) and very expected in a fish like that. those white/teal spots will probably reproduce even down the fins a little.

what a pretty guy you have there. have you thought of anythign else you would like to put in the tank??? you can do some shrimp, cherry or amano/algae eating, no cray fish though. you can add some smaller fish like endlers. if he isnt aggressive you could probably put in some of the flashier fish like threadfins. no gouramis though, some otociclus(no more than 2 and make sure you QT them!!!)?? axelrods rasboras are a good idea.... get a few, maybe 5 or 6?? or the green fire tetra (or other similar small species) in groups of 5-6 or more, i love the golden white clouds!! celestial pearl danios are also beautiful. some of those fish will reproduce easily in a well kept aquarium although they will possibly eat their young or if not your betta will enjoy a snack.

-ashley
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