Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog food forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 29th, 2008, 10:21 PM
armash armash is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5
Lightbulb Large breed puppy food

I have an italian mastiff puppy, 8 weeks old.
i am feeding him Royal Canin Maxi 30 Baby Dog (for large breed puppies) food with the following Ingredients:


Chicken meal, rice, brown rice, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, chicken, dried egg product, natural chicken flavor, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), anchovy oil (source of EPA/DHA), dried brewers yeast, sodium silico aluminate, cellulose, potassium chloride, soya oil, psyllium seed husk, fructo-oligosaccharides, salt, L-lysine, dried brewers yeast extract (source of mannan-oligosaccharides), Vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, niacin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin (vitamin B2), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], taurine, choline chloride, DL-methionine, glucosamine hydrochloride, Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], L-carnitine, chondroitin sulfate, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of Vitamin E) and citric acid, rosemary extract.

apparently it has immunity boosters and stuff which is good.
can somebody comment on the ingredients?
Or suggest something better for a large breed puppy?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old October 30th, 2008, 12:19 AM
Goldens4Ever's Avatar
Goldens4Ever Goldens4Ever is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: GREEN BAY, WI!
Posts: 349
Orijen Large Breed Puppy would be the best option for a specific "puppy" food, as most companies are leaning toward the generic "all life stages" these days.

http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/orijen/

It costs twice as much as what you're feeding, but it also provides 100% better nutrition also. Read the threads on here about dog food to get an idea about what's considered "healthy" versus "unhealthy."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old October 30th, 2008, 01:37 AM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by armash View Post

apparently it has immunity boosters and stuff which is good.
can somebody comment on the ingredients?
Or suggest something better for a large breed puppy?

Immunity boosters?? I'm guessing your vet told you that one.

About the only ingredient in that food that I like is the chicken meal.

Corn gluten meal is a cheap ingredient used to add protein and is highly susceptible to mold contamination.

Cellulose is a cheap filler and usually comes from wood shavings.

Fructo-oligosaccharides is an artificial sweetener ......sugar should not be added to pet food period.

Salt should also not be added and it also has another form of salt labelled as sodium silico aluminate .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_aluminosilicate

I agree with Goldens4Ever about Orijen's large breed puppy formula.

But I am pretty sure it does not cost twice as much as Medi-Cal.

I think the average price for Orijen is around $60 a bag and Medi-Cal is over $70.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old October 30th, 2008, 01:41 AM
kathryn's Avatar
kathryn kathryn is offline
chronically insane.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South Jersey!
Posts: 2,016
http://www.innovapet.com/product_line.asp?id=1259

Quote:
Ingredients
Turkey
Chicken
Chicken Meal
Barley
Brown Rice
Rice
Potatoes
Chicken Fat
Pea Fiber
Egg
Natural Flavors
Flaxseed
Apples
Sunflower Oil
Pumpkin
Carrots
Potassium Chloride
Sea Salt
Herring Oil
Cottage Cheese
Alfalfa Sprouts
Dried Chicory Root
Direct-Fed Microbials
Lecithin
Rosemary Extract
Vitamins/Minerals

http://www.chickensoupforthepetlover...puppy_formula/

Quote:
INGREDIENTS
Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, white rice, oatmeal, millet, potatoes, egg product, tomato pomace, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), duck, salmon, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, salmon oil (source of DHA), choline chloride, dried chicory root, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-carnitine, Enterococcus faecieum, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, vitamin E Supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.


I work at a pet food store and that's the two main ones we sell. I believe there is one more by a different company, but those two are both pretty good.
__________________
My cat is smarter than your honor student.
Stop Dog Fighting ~ Neuter Mike Vick!

~ RIP Timmy ~ May 2009 - November 6th 2009
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old October 30th, 2008, 10:05 AM
TulipRoxy's Avatar
TulipRoxy TulipRoxy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 312
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
Immunity boosters?? I'm guessing your vet told you that one.
Well this food does have Vitamins C and E added. Those are both immune boosters.


Quote:
Fructo-oligosaccharides is an artificial sweetener ......sugar should not be added to pet food period.
Actually fructo-oligosaccharides are a type of highly fermentable fiber. They are good because the fermentation process in the small intesting helps increase the number of good bacteria which produce B vitamins, which nourish the intestinal mucosal lining. It also helps lower the PH in the intestial tract which improves calcium absorption.

That being said I wouldnt reccomend this food because of the addition of corn. Other than that it looks like an ok food.
__________________
Miranda
Tulip Roxy Nelly
Sencha and Alaska
Come Visit Us! http://myminizoo.wordpress.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old October 30th, 2008, 10:53 AM
AmericanBullMom's Avatar
AmericanBullMom AmericanBullMom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 559
I suggest going to www.dogfoodanalysis.com
They rate almost every dog food and suggest the best brands to buy!

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_f...ct=274&cat=all

^ that is the review that the food your feeding your puppy got. I feed Old Mother Hubbard's Wellness Core Ocean to my 11 month old American Bulldog, He is doing VERY well on it so far!
__________________
Patrón - American Bulldog - 1 year old
Jackson - Bull TerrierXShephard - 1yr 1/2 (DB's dog)
Foose - Black Domestic Shorthair Cat - 2yrs old
Mako - Black and white DLH Cat ( found at work one day )
Expression - National Show Horse - 12-15 yrs old.

"The best kisses come from my puppy "
"There are NO bad dogs, Just bad Owners "
BAN BSL!!!

Last edited by AmericanBullMom; October 30th, 2008 at 10:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old October 30th, 2008, 10:58 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,191
It is so rare that I join into food threads, but LuckyPenny has spoken to me about what I am feeding my dogs. Royal Canine or Medical....apparently not the best. I am equally at a lose when it comes to foods for my pets.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old October 30th, 2008, 01:07 PM
totallyhip's Avatar
totallyhip totallyhip is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC CANADA
Posts: 540
We had a foster that was eating Royal Canin Boxer. I switched him immediately after I found out that it is very high fat content. Personally for kibble I prefer Orjen, Wellness, Innova, Evo, or Nature's Balance.
__________________
Owned By:
Luke - Male Brindle Boxer - DOB Feb. 2003
Leia - Female Fawn Boxer - DOB July 2004 (RESCUE) went to the bridge Nov. 2011
Han Solo - Male Flashy Fawn Boxer - DOB Oct. 2004 (RESCUE)
Chewie - Male White Boxer - DOB Aug. 2007 (RESCUE)
Geordi - Male Fawn Boxer - DOB 2009

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Mohandas Gandhi -

~Until there are none, rescue one ~

www.wbbr.ca
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old October 30th, 2008, 01:17 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,191
Our rescue is switiching to Natural Balance. I 'heard' it's good ...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old October 30th, 2008, 01:21 PM
suzyb991 suzyb991 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: ontario
Posts: 10
orijen

I endorse the previous response regarding the Orijen line of dog food. Dog allergies are on the rise and I have taken my dog off any product that contains wheat, barley, etc. In the long run it will mean a healthier dog and lower vet bills. Start puppies off right.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old October 30th, 2008, 01:22 PM
totallyhip's Avatar
totallyhip totallyhip is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC CANADA
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
Our rescue is switiching to Natural Balance. I 'heard' it's good ...

We feed it in our kennel to all our dogs (we get a bulk discount!). Its actually very good quality for what they charge for it. Were finding more dogs are developing allergies so they make a Duck & Potato Allergy formula that we feed. Also we have some Colitis babies and we give them the kibble mixed with some wet and white rice. Its been really helping our Colitis babes.
__________________
Owned By:
Luke - Male Brindle Boxer - DOB Feb. 2003
Leia - Female Fawn Boxer - DOB July 2004 (RESCUE) went to the bridge Nov. 2011
Han Solo - Male Flashy Fawn Boxer - DOB Oct. 2004 (RESCUE)
Chewie - Male White Boxer - DOB Aug. 2007 (RESCUE)
Geordi - Male Fawn Boxer - DOB 2009

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Mohandas Gandhi -

~Until there are none, rescue one ~

www.wbbr.ca
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old October 30th, 2008, 02:08 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by TulipRoxy View Post
Actually fructo-oligosaccharides are a type of highly fermentable fiber. They are good because the fermentation process in the small intesting helps increase the number of good bacteria which produce B vitamins, which nourish the intestinal mucosal lining. It also helps lower the PH in the intestial tract which improves calcium absorption.

That being said I wouldnt reccomend this food because of the addition of corn. Other than that it looks like an ok food.
Quote:
Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) also sometimes called oligofructose or oligofructan, is a class of oligosaccharides used as an artificial or alternative sweetener. FOS use emerged in the 1980s in response to consumer demand for healthier and calorie-reduced foods. The term oligosaccharide refers to a short chain of sugar molecules (in the case of FOS, fructose molecules). Oligo means few, and saccharide means sugar.

Some more info about fructo-oligosaccharides ....

http://www.scdiet.org/6research/fos.html

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...accharides.htm
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old October 30th, 2008, 02:09 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by totallyhip View Post
We feed it in our kennel to all our dogs (we get a bulk discount!). Its actually very good quality for what they charge for it. Were finding more dogs are developing allergies so they make a Duck & Potato Allergy formula that we feed. Also we have some Colitis babies and we give them the kibble mixed with some wet and white rice. Its been really helping our Colitis babes.
So I have been told by members of our rescue. Duck and Potato...interesting....
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old October 30th, 2008, 02:12 PM
AmericanBullMom's Avatar
AmericanBullMom AmericanBullMom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
So I have been told by members of our rescue. Duck and Potato...interesting....
Patrón was on the Natural Balance Duck and Potato for a while... I liked it except it gave him bad gas!
__________________
Patrón - American Bulldog - 1 year old
Jackson - Bull TerrierXShephard - 1yr 1/2 (DB's dog)
Foose - Black Domestic Shorthair Cat - 2yrs old
Mako - Black and white DLH Cat ( found at work one day )
Expression - National Show Horse - 12-15 yrs old.

"The best kisses come from my puppy "
"There are NO bad dogs, Just bad Owners "
BAN BSL!!!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old October 30th, 2008, 02:29 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,191
I am going to try it - why not!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old October 30th, 2008, 02:35 PM
totallyhip's Avatar
totallyhip totallyhip is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC CANADA
Posts: 540
If you have Colitis babies I also add some pumpkin. 1 tablespoon of 100% pure canned pumpkin (not pie filling). I'm a huge advocate of pumpkin. If they have it at Costco we get a case!

With allergies we stick to 1 protein source. In this case the duck.

Let me know how it goes
__________________
Owned By:
Luke - Male Brindle Boxer - DOB Feb. 2003
Leia - Female Fawn Boxer - DOB July 2004 (RESCUE) went to the bridge Nov. 2011
Han Solo - Male Flashy Fawn Boxer - DOB Oct. 2004 (RESCUE)
Chewie - Male White Boxer - DOB Aug. 2007 (RESCUE)
Geordi - Male Fawn Boxer - DOB 2009

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Mohandas Gandhi -

~Until there are none, rescue one ~

www.wbbr.ca
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old October 30th, 2008, 02:38 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,191
I will let you know. Thanks. I have to obviously find the specialty store for Nature's Balance.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old October 30th, 2008, 02:41 PM
totallyhip's Avatar
totallyhip totallyhip is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC CANADA
Posts: 540
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/home/locator.tpl
__________________
Owned By:
Luke - Male Brindle Boxer - DOB Feb. 2003
Leia - Female Fawn Boxer - DOB July 2004 (RESCUE) went to the bridge Nov. 2011
Han Solo - Male Flashy Fawn Boxer - DOB Oct. 2004 (RESCUE)
Chewie - Male White Boxer - DOB Aug. 2007 (RESCUE)
Geordi - Male Fawn Boxer - DOB 2009

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Mohandas Gandhi -

~Until there are none, rescue one ~

www.wbbr.ca
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old October 30th, 2008, 03:34 PM
TulipRoxy's Avatar
TulipRoxy TulipRoxy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
Thanks for the info. I'm just a student of nutrition and stand corrected. Its interesting to see how there is always two sides to an issue.
__________________
Miranda
Tulip Roxy Nelly
Sencha and Alaska
Come Visit Us! http://myminizoo.wordpress.com
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old October 30th, 2008, 03:36 PM
TulipRoxy's Avatar
TulipRoxy TulipRoxy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by totallyhip View Post
We feed it in our kennel to all our dogs (we get a bulk discount!). Its actually very good quality for what they charge for it. Were finding more dogs are developing allergies so they make a Duck & Potato Allergy formula that we feed. Also we have some Colitis babies and we give them the kibble mixed with some wet and white rice. Its been really helping our Colitis babes.
I used to feed NB before I switched to raw. It was a good food, and I always has success with it. Many of the clients at the kennel I work at feed it as well with good success.
__________________
Miranda
Tulip Roxy Nelly
Sencha and Alaska
Come Visit Us! http://myminizoo.wordpress.com
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old October 30th, 2008, 03:45 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanBullMom View Post
Patrón was on the Natural Balance Duck and Potato for a while... I liked it except it gave him bad gas!
I've heard that often about the NB Duck & Potato....maybe the duck is too rich.

California Natural has minimal ingredients for allergy dogs.....perhaps the Herring & Sweet Potato formula would help.

They also have their own manufacturing plant which is a bonus.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old October 30th, 2008, 04:01 PM
totallyhip's Avatar
totallyhip totallyhip is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC CANADA
Posts: 540
Yes sometimes it is too rich but they also do fish & potato too along with some other allergy formulas
__________________
Owned By:
Luke - Male Brindle Boxer - DOB Feb. 2003
Leia - Female Fawn Boxer - DOB July 2004 (RESCUE) went to the bridge Nov. 2011
Han Solo - Male Flashy Fawn Boxer - DOB Oct. 2004 (RESCUE)
Chewie - Male White Boxer - DOB Aug. 2007 (RESCUE)
Geordi - Male Fawn Boxer - DOB 2009

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Mohandas Gandhi -

~Until there are none, rescue one ~

www.wbbr.ca
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old October 30th, 2008, 04:14 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by totallyhip View Post
Yes sometimes it is too rich but they also do fish & potato too along with some other allergy formulas

Do you know who manufactures Natural Balance?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old October 30th, 2008, 04:29 PM
totallyhip's Avatar
totallyhip totallyhip is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC CANADA
Posts: 540
I believe they manufacture it themselves in California

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Balance_Pet_Foods
__________________
Owned By:
Luke - Male Brindle Boxer - DOB Feb. 2003
Leia - Female Fawn Boxer - DOB July 2004 (RESCUE) went to the bridge Nov. 2011
Han Solo - Male Flashy Fawn Boxer - DOB Oct. 2004 (RESCUE)
Chewie - Male White Boxer - DOB Aug. 2007 (RESCUE)
Geordi - Male Fawn Boxer - DOB 2009

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Mohandas Gandhi -

~Until there are none, rescue one ~

www.wbbr.ca
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old October 30th, 2008, 04:48 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by totallyhip View Post
I believe they manufacture it themselves in California

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Balance_Pet_Foods

I have heard that it is made at the Diamond plant in California.

Here is one of the articles from the Los Angeles Times (http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr...s/fi-petfood19)....

Quote:
A San Francisco company, Wilbur-Ellis Co., began importing the ingredient in July from a Chinese company, Futian Biology Technology Co., Wilbur-Ellis Chief Executive John Thacher said.

It resold the ingredient to five pet food manufacturers, including Diamond Pet Foods Inc. of Meta, Mo. Diamond manufactured the dry dog and cat foods recalled by Natural Balance, Diamond spokesman Jim Fallon said.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old October 30th, 2008, 06:07 PM
totallyhip's Avatar
totallyhip totallyhip is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC CANADA
Posts: 540
Thanks Rainbow for the information and letting me know who manufactures the food. I was unaware. I am glad that Natural Balance recalled the food. I would hate for anymore dogs to get sick from this horrible pet food scandal

"Natural Balance said it was recalling all its venison and brown rice canned and bagged dog foods, its venison and brown rice dog treats and its venison and green pea dry cat food."

"Natural Balance believes the source of the contaminant was rice protein concentrate, which it recently added to the dry venison formulas"

Seems that several dog food companies voluntarily recalled dog food during the pet food recall.
__________________
Owned By:
Luke - Male Brindle Boxer - DOB Feb. 2003
Leia - Female Fawn Boxer - DOB July 2004 (RESCUE) went to the bridge Nov. 2011
Han Solo - Male Flashy Fawn Boxer - DOB Oct. 2004 (RESCUE)
Chewie - Male White Boxer - DOB Aug. 2007 (RESCUE)
Geordi - Male Fawn Boxer - DOB 2009

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Mohandas Gandhi -

~Until there are none, rescue one ~

www.wbbr.ca
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old November 2nd, 2008, 09:54 PM
Laylapet's Avatar
Laylapet Laylapet is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 28
I've been feeding Solid Gold Wolf Cub. I've been very pleased with it. Bonus: PetCo carries it so it's pretty easy to find. She also eats WAY less of it than of other brands I've tried, so it actually ends up being cheaper than the "cheap" stuff! She started on 3 cups of Eukanuba a day, and now eats less than 2 cups of the SG.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old November 3rd, 2008, 09:55 PM
GETRAW GETRAW is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kitchener
Posts: 6
Generic All Life Stages

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldens4Ever View Post
Orijen Large Breed Puppy would be the best option for a specific "puppy" food, as most companies are leaning toward the generic "all life stages" these days.

http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/orijen/

It costs twice as much as what you're feeding, but it also provides 100% better nutrition also. Read the threads on here about dog food to get an idea about what's considered "healthy" versus "unhealthy."
Goldens4Ever there is nothing generic about good nutrition. At your Thanksgiving dinner nobody gave Grandpa a piece of 'Senior' turkey. Companies make up reasons to take shelf space, it's all about marketing.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
breed, food, large, mastiff, puppy

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 8.33%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:51 PM.