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Old March 16th, 2008, 12:06 AM
canuckgirl canuckgirl is offline
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silly question, sorry!!

Do you need a vet's prescription to get Hill's Prescription Diet? Since they only sell it at the vet's I didn't know. My 2 Birman kittens will be ready to leave the breeder in 3 weeks (yay!) She's been feeding them Hill's Prescription c/d, Medi-Cal Developmental & Wellness. Both canned & dry. I don't want to have to buy all those different kinds of food. I have a "thing" about canned food. Years ago when I was house sitting for a friend I kept smelling something rotten. A bowl of canned cat food was on the back porch & it was all maggoty. This is in the middle of August too. Gag! I threw the dish & everything out. My hair on the back of my neck is standing up even thinking about it. So I've never fed canned food to any of my cats. BUT...if that's what the breeder recommends, so be it. Only the best for my Furby & Frisbee. Her adults are grand champions so she must be doing something right!
Oh yeah, the original question. Do I need a prescription?
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Old March 16th, 2008, 01:03 AM
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I don't think you need a prescription but the vet may want to point you in the direction of the food they want you to feed.

There are far far better foods out there than Medi-cal/Royal Canin then of course there is the whole Toxic Food Recall , have a look at the ingredients and compare them to the ingredients of some of the Premium Holistic Brands. Looking at the first 8 ingredients red highlighted are not good ones especially as the first ones.

Medi-cal: Canned - Development Formula

Water Sufficient for Processing, Beef, Beef By-Products, Chicken, Rice Flour, Mackerel, Brown Rice, Guar Gum..........

Wellness Kitten Formula

Chicken, Chicken Liver, Chicken Broth, Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, Salt, Guar Gum, Cranberries..........

Innova Cat & Kitten Formua

Turkey, Chicken, Chicken Broth, Whole Eggs, Chicken Meal, Herring, Potatoes, Carrots........

Have a through the food Forum or post for more questions everyone will be more than happy to guide you in a more healthy direction
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Old March 16th, 2008, 01:33 AM
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I would not feed either Hills or Medi-Cal. Check the ingredients for both with the ingedients in Wellness....

Hill's Feline c/d Ingredients:

Brewers Rice, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Sulfate, Iodized Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with BHT and BHA, Beta-Carotene.


Medi-Cal Dry - Development Formula

Chicken Meal, Rice Flour, Corn, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Citric Acid and Lecithin), Dried Whole Egg, Corn Gluten, Tuna Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Beet Pulp, Flax Meal, Minerals (Potassium Chloride, Phosphoric Acid, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Bioplex, Ferrous Sulphate, Iron Bioplex, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulphate, Copper Bioplex, Calcium Iodate and Organic Selenium), DL-Methionine, Fructo-Oligosaccharides, Bacillus Subtilis Dried Fermentation Extract, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E, Inositol, Vitamin C, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A, Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Biotin, Vitamin B12 and Vitamin D3), Taurine, L-Carnitine, L-Glutamine, Docosahexanoic Acid, Ascorbyl Polyphosphate and Alpha-Lipoic Acid.

Medi-Cal Canned - Development Formula

Water Sufficient for Processing, Beef, Beef By-Products, Chicken, Rice Flour, Mackerel, Brown Rice, Guar Gum, Flax Meal, Minerals (Calcium Carbonate, Ferrous Sulphate, Zinc Oxide, Iron Bioplex, Zinc Bioplex, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulphate, Copper Bioplex, Calcium Iodate and Organic Selenium), Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Thiamine Mononitrate, Niacin, Inositol, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A, Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 and Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex), Sodium Acid Pyrophosphate, Potassium Citrate, Whey Powder, Fructo-Oligosaccharides, Carrageenan, Taurine, L-Carnitine, Docosahexanoic Acid, Alpha-Lipoic Acid and L-Glutamine.

Wellness Chicken Meal & Rice Dry Ingredients:

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Rice, Ground Barley, Ground Rice, Chicken Fat(preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Natural Chicken Flavor, Salmon Meal, Chicken Liver, Cranberries, Tomato Pomace, Olive Oil, Chicory Root Extract, Cranberry Extract Powder, Cranberry Fiber, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement), Choline Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Chondroitin Sulfate, Glucosamine, Hydrochloride, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Taurine, Rosemary Extract.

Wellness Chicken Canned Ingredients:

Chicken, Chicken Liver, Turkey, Chicken Broth, Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, Natural Chicken Flavor, Guar Gum, Carrageenan, Flaxseed, Squash, Cranberries, Blueberries, Zucchini, Potassium Chloride, Garlic, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Taurine, Iron Proteinate (a source of Chelated Iron), Beta-Carotene, Zinc Proteinate (a source of Chelated Zinc), Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Proteinate (a source of Chelated Cobalt), Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate (a source of Chelated Copper), Folic Acid, Manganese Proteinate (a source of Chelated Manganese), Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Biotin.

I would also recommend feeding Wellness CORE as it is grain free and much better for your kitties....

Wellness CORE Canned Kitten Formula Product Ingredients:

Chicken, Chicken Liver, Chicken Broth, Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, Salt, Guar Gum, Cranberries, Blueberries, Squash, Zucchini, Flaxseed, Garlic, Potassium Chloride, Tricalcium Phosphate, Taurine, Carrageenan, Iron Proteinate (a source of Chelated Iron), Beta-carotene, Zinc Proteinate (a source of Chelated Zinc), Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Proteinate (a source of Chelated Cobalt), Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate (a source of Chelated Copper), Folic Acid, Manganese Proteinate (a source of Chelated Manganese), Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Biotin.


Wellness CORE Dry Ingredients:

Deboned Turkey, Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whitefish Meal, Potatoes, Salmon Meal, Natural Chicken Flavor. Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomato Pomace, Cranberries, Chicory Root Extract, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement), Choline Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Taurine, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Rosemary Extract.


Also, a canned diet is better to feed your kitties as it is much healthier for them. Sugarcatmom will be along shortly to give you all the reasons why.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 01:37 AM
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Ooooops, I didn't see your post Growler...... I started mine and then had to go take Chase outside.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 09:46 AM
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What ^they^ said! Ixnay on the Hill's and Medical. Lousy ingredients, over-priced, and not good food for any cat. You may have an aversion to canned, but in your cat's best interest, it truly is a better option than any and all dry.

What about a raw diet? At your kittens' age, they should take to it like a fat kid on a Smartie. Raw is the ultimate best food for obligate carnivores (just do your research first).
http://www.catinfo.org/
http://www.catnutrition.org/index.php
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
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Old March 16th, 2008, 10:52 AM
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You do need a prescription (which is one reason I stopped buying Rx food, that and usually they aren't the best quality). We have Rx food at Petsmart here, and I tried to buy some once without a Rx, and they wouldn't let me. For some of it, i guess i can understand as it is specialized for certain critical health problems, but this was just the Science diet food for dental care. Dumb...
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Old March 16th, 2008, 11:44 AM
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Wellness looks best so far, as to ingredients. And they sell it at the local pet supply store which is a 5 minute drive from where I live. More convenient than having to drive to the vet whenever I need food. I'm at that plaza for other stuff at least twice a week anyway. I wondered why so many vets pushed the expensive stuff. They want the money in their own pockets rather than the pet supply store. Not to sound mean, but they must make a nice profit after the mark up.
I've heard good things about Wellness. But with any brand, you're going to get a difference of opinion. Some people swear by certain brands, other people wouldn't buy it if their life depended on it. So I'll do the research you all suggested & then decide. As to the canned food, the reason the maggoty food stunk so much (besides being rotten) was because it was some no name cheapo brand sold at grocery stores. It stunk right out of a freshly opened can. Premium brands probably don't stink like that, not with such good ingredients.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 08:16 PM
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Very glad to hear you are going to check into different options & stay away from Medical/Royal Canin/Hills/Science Diet.

The local smaller specialty pet supply stores are the best place to purchase foods because they carry premium holistic brands and most will also carry raw food. Personally I would go raw, my cat has been eating only raw for the past 3 months & she's doing great with it
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Old March 16th, 2008, 09:55 PM
canuckgirl canuckgirl is offline
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They must have 50 pages of info on the Wellness site! They explain every ingredient found in every formulation. So I'll probably go with that brand. As far as a raw diet, I'm sure it's healthy, but I'm too lazy. It might be interesting to make up a small amount for treats a little later on, but not for full time feeding. Unless a permanent energy jag overtakes me within the next few weeks.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 10:06 PM
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Wellness is an excellent choice , my girl was eating Wellness before the switch to raw
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Old March 17th, 2008, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckgirl View Post
Premium brands probably don't stink like that, not with such good ingredients.
Funny you should say that, because even though I'm vegetarian, I actually like the smell of Wellness. Especially the turkey.

Fancy Feast on the other hand, makes me gag.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
Funny you should say that, because even though I'm vegetarian, I actually like the smell of Wellness. Especially the turkey.

Fancy Feast on the other hand, makes me gag.
i was that mom who tried EVERY SINGLE FOOD my kids eat... you know those teething cookies and such?? i ate a taste of them all.

the only time in my life i ever thought about trying my pets food was when i opened some of those Wellness and Merrick cans.


aside from that, i would strongly feeding SOME raw meat NOW occasionally just in case they come up against a situation where raw would be the best idea. if they eat a pinch of it her and there through out their life, gettingn them to transition to a full raw diet later wouldnt be so difficult. perhaps once a week or two get a chicken breast and chop it into 3 even pieces and feed each cat a piece.

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Old March 17th, 2008, 07:54 AM
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I feed my foster kittens Wellness kitten canned along with prepared raw (paws-itively raw) and a portion of meat from our supper, and they had the best muscle tone and softest fur I have ever seen on a cat. They ended up prefering raw/cooked meat over canned.

There was such a difference in their physical condition over other kittens up for adoption at the local shelter who were being fed Royal Canin. If that is what quality does to the outside, can you imagine what it is doing to their inside.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 07:59 AM
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They must have 50 pages of info on the Wellness site! They explain every ingredient found in every formulation. So I'll probably go with that brand. As far as a raw diet, I'm sure it's healthy, but I'm too lazy. It might be interesting to make up a small amount for treats a little later on, but not for full time feeding. Unless a permanent energy jag overtakes me within the next few weeks.
There are prepared raw diets (frozen meat patties) that you can buy possibly at the same pet store where you buy Wellness. Also you can supplement with giving your kitty a portion of meat you cook for supper. Now is the time to give them a taste for real meat. Think about it, if it better for your family to eat fresh meat, than processed meat, then the same rules apply to your kitty.
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Old March 18th, 2008, 01:17 PM
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I've been shopping! Got a bag of Wellness kitten growth & a bunch of the kitten growth in cans, any flavour you'd care to name. Also got the feiline fresh litter the breeder recommended. And a cat tree! It has a ladder, cubby holes, sisal posts, a lounger at the top. Very cute. This tax refund is burning a hole in my pocket, LOL! I don't have any kids so I'm probably getting off cheap, rather than iPods & $100 running shoes, it's pet supplies.
Haven't decided on the raw yet. I'm still a little leery. I'll ask the breeder & the vet.
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Old March 18th, 2008, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckgirl View Post
I've been shopping! Got a bag of Wellness kitten growth & a bunch of the kitten growth in cans, any flavour you'd care to name. Also got the feiline fresh litter the breeder recommended. And a cat tree! It has a ladder, cubby holes, sisal posts, a lounger at the top. Very cute. This tax refund is burning a hole in my pocket, LOL! I don't have any kids so I'm probably getting off cheap, rather than iPods & $100 running shoes, it's pet supplies.
Haven't decided on the raw yet. I'm still a little leery. I'll ask the breeder & the vet.
Awesome, your going to have some very happy healthy kitties! I don't have kids either, so instead my cat has 2 cat condos, 3 scratching posts, 3 litter boxes, half the couch, and enough toys scattered aroung the house to make it look like I DO have kids.

As for the raw thing, just a word of caution about asking the vet: not all, but I'd have to say probably most, are rather anti-raw. They've been indoctrinated into the cult of Big Pet Food (aka Hill's, Medi-cal, Purina, Royal Canin etc.). Sadly, they don't get a lot of in depth education on feline nutrition in school, and tend to be heavily influenced by the so-called "research" that the aforementioned companies carry out. Not to mention that they're selling the crap in their clinics (and make upwards of 20% of their annual profit from these sales - conflict of interest?). Here's some interesting reading on the subject:
http://naturalcathealth.blogspot.com...ty-of-pet.html
http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spri...tFood/Vets.htm
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Old March 18th, 2008, 11:11 PM
canuckgirl canuckgirl is offline
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Oh yes, they for sure make a profit selling the vet brands of foods. Notice those brands were all in the recall? Hmm...
One of the links you posted had another link about vaccinations. Kind of getting off topic here but our pets get too many shots if you ask me. Especially indoor cats. Dogs are a little different. Some vets say every 3 years except for rabies which is usually the law or whatever. My cat Ebony had her shots as a kitten & when she was spayed & has never been to a vet since. She's going to be 16. Makes you wonder doesn't it? Mind you, none of my cats have ever been outside either. Once or twice I took them on the deck with me in the summer, but they ran right back inside.
Is there a thread on over vaccinating? I'd like to do some reading on it. Thanks for everyone's help. You guys are great!
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Old March 19th, 2008, 12:27 AM
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Great job shopping! Tax returns are great aren't they?

Feline Fresh is a great choice for litter too I get the pellets & you can use the "sawdust" remains in your flower garden for mulch (as long as you don't use it for vegetable gardens)

I do think there may be something to the over use of vaccines as well........in my CRF research I came across this study that showed the feline herpesvirus1, calicivirus, and panleukopenia was originally grown in feline kidney cells hence the antibodies then start attacking the kidneys......years of vaccines mean years of wear & tear on the kidneys......I passed this research paper on to my (former) regular vet - she'd never heard about it
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Old March 27th, 2008, 02:23 PM
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Vet food versus Holistic food

Hi everyone,

I just wanted everyone to consider this, comparing vet food to holistic food is like comparing apples to oranges, they are both good but each has unique properties that benefit the animal. In the case of prescription food, it is formulated in such a way to ensure it meets the animal's health/medical needs; in the case of holistic food it is formulated in such a way to ensure the ingredients are 'wholesome' and they meet the dogs normal dietary needs.

YES Holistic food is great BUT if your animal has any type of medical problem, holistic food will not address it as effectively as a Vet formulation will!

Consider this when dealing with a 'commercial' food like Royal Canin versus a 'holistic' food like Wellness. Royal Canin not only looks at the ingredients that go into the food but MORE IMPORTANTLY how the animal digests it and how the animal absorbs the nutritional value from the food. Holistic food is all about ingredients but I would be interested in knowing how much research is done on the body's ability to absorb the nutritional value from the food as well as the efficiency of their digestive system.

Also considers the companies history, a company that has had food in the marketplace for 5 - 10 years versus a company that has had their food on the market for over 20 years. As long as the 20 year old company is progressive and reformulates their food based on current knowledge, I would go with a company that has a long standing reputation than the short lived 'new' concept company.

That's just my opinion of course! Bottomline is, how healthy is your animal's poop? Is it nicely formed, not too big and not too wet or dry? Is the skin, coat and eyes of the animal look good? The the food is working! If not, time to change!

Thanks for listening/reading!
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Old March 27th, 2008, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Susie_p View Post
Consider this when dealing with a 'commercial' food like Royal Canin versus a 'holistic' food like Wellness. Royal Canin not only looks at the ingredients that go into the food but MORE IMPORTANTLY how the animal digests it and how the animal absorbs the nutritional value from the food. Holistic food is all about ingredients but I would be interested in knowing how much research is done on the body's ability to absorb the nutritional value from the food as well as the efficiency of their digestive system.

Also considers the companies history, a company that has had food in the marketplace for 5 - 10 years versus a company that has had their food on the market for over 20 years. As long as the 20 year old company is progressive and reformulates their food based on current knowledge, I would go with a company that has a long standing reputation than the short lived 'new' concept company.

That's just my opinion of course! Bottomline is, how healthy is your animal's poop? Is it nicely formed, not too big and not too wet or dry? Is the skin, coat and eyes of the animal look good? The the food is working! If not, time to change!
Since you brought up Royal Canin - consider this: my healthy senior cat was eating RC Prescription Sensitivity cat food, her poops were not always well formed and smelled so much I could tell as soon as I walked in the front door that she had gone to the litterbox while I was out. Then comes the RC Food Recall - my healthy senior cat posioned with toxic ingredients - now she has Chronic Kidney Failure because of that company. Never trust them ever again I don't care how long they've been in business or how good their reputation was before the recall.
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