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Old February 23rd, 2008, 12:11 PM
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Raw Rabbit- Advice Needed!!!

i found a nice rabbit supplier here who is quite supportive of raw feeding. he strongly suggested we raise our own rabbits for cost reasons (which is really nice in my book) but i politely declined. i cant kill a furry thing. no way!!

he said he can butcher to my specs. what should that be? skinned from the neck down, minus the intestines and bladder?? organs on the side?? how hard are rabbit bones to cut? are they likely to be edible? so far Mister is only able to go through chicken bones, some turkey bones and pigs feet.

any advice going into this world of rabbits for food would be appreciated.

-ashley
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Old February 23rd, 2008, 12:26 PM
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Not sure how it is for dogs, but if you're going to feed it to the kitties, I really have to recommend grinding it (with the organs). It's not likely that they'll get through the bones. The other thing is that rabbit has less taurine than other meats and will need to be supplemented with about 100-200mg/day.

Rabbit is an excellent food for cats, easily digestible, very little allergy potential. I really wish Aztec liked it. He'll grudgingly eat some canned Nature's Variety, but only after trying to convince me that he's about to collapse from starvation.
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Old February 23rd, 2008, 12:38 PM
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Skinned from the neck down (no head preferably for me) and with all innerds for dogs.
Thats how I feed it.
Rabbit bones are just as easy for dogs as chicken bones.
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Old February 24th, 2008, 09:06 AM
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The only butchering really is maybe to cut them in half. Ideally you should leave on all the skin with fur and keep the entrails. These are all needed components of a valuable raw diet. So if you're up to it, i'd say chop or quarter them with an ax (if you can). If they are small enough and your dogs big enough you can also serve them whole.

Also you didn't mention if they were wild, free range, etc. I would freeze them for at least 10 days to rule out any parasites.

I have sharpei & chows and normally I feed the entire carcass or in some cases, just chop it in half, but I certainly don't remove anything. You'll find that your dog will eat all of the rabbit, fur and everything.

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Old February 24th, 2008, 11:43 AM
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A Rabbit is real easy to Skin,
I have skinned & cleaned many of them,
Along with plucking, skinning & gutting chickens,
I Always chunked them up, Because some tame rabbits can be rather large in size. (They cut up easy, about the same as cutting up a chicken. Use a good sharp kitchen knife, (not a paring knife)
Separated hind legs, front legs, the remaining body section, separate in three sections, the rib, the main bottom section and that leaves the nice meaty section I like the most, The two skin flaps on either side, I always separated that as it tends to be rather tough, (cross grained). Rabbit bones I never found to much different than that of a home grown chicken, There is a big difference in store bought chickens and home grown ones, For yrs the store chickens literally made me sick!, and there is no way you can cook a home chicken in 30 mins and have the meat falling off it like the store ones do, I always had to parboil my home chicks for at least 1 hr before I could make tartar dip (shake n bake) Chicken with them. I prefer the wild rabbits over the tame ones, More flavor, at least to me, But they tend to be much smaller and leaner. I always saved all the organ meat, What we didn't/couldn't eat my dogs always gratefully accepted. Raising rabbits for meat is not as easy as most people seem to think, It can involve alot of work with very little meat in return, mother rabbit can and will for very fickle reasons, a new face, pen being moved, alot of little things can set her off. then she eats the young. Buying food, hay all that good stuff comes into alot of money fast, even if you suppliment with fresh grass, then you gotta have pens and yards built,
Alot of people use the old wire cages, so the poop falls thru, But thats very hard on rabbits feet, they can go lame and such, I always preferred a big indoor pen , lots of floor space, Line it with bales of hay, so they can build tunnels throughtout, also include a hugh yard with a pull up and down door,
building the yard is hard work if you want to keep your rabbits from tunneling out, but thats another story, anyways Rabbit meat is delicious , save every part possible for your dog, I wouldn't feed the fur, that can pose a problem with some dogs. If you run an add in a paper you'll probably find lots of people that trap and sell them,

Last edited by Chicklet; February 24th, 2008 at 12:00 PM.
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Old February 24th, 2008, 03:51 PM
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Is t possible to place an alert at the top of rabbit posts like this for those of us who have had or have bunnies as pets. I was doing fine (and have been under great stress lately) until I read this. I still mourn the loss of my beloved pet bunny and the thought of rabbits as food makes me violently ill. I wish that was not so but it is. I am aware people op eat rabbit but to be honest and with all due respect, find it difficult to understand how anyone would feel rabbit to anyone- whether it is themselves or their pets. I have mentioned this before and I do not want to start a controversy - just that I think people would know that there are those of us for whom these kind of poss are most upsetting.

It is the exactly same thing as if I was to discuss feeding raw dog or cat? It is why we call for boycotts of China and other countries and condemn them for their cultural values yet we here seem to see noting wrong with posting on an animal pet web site where people have very much loved rabbits as family members (My bunny was litter trained, had a lazy boy chair, his own personality - as do most bunnies) . This post has ruined my day and certainly my dinner - I wouls not have open it had there been an alert that it might be upsetting.

So we really have to discuss the eating of animals some of us have pets? Is this not somewhat incongruent with what the mission of the site?

Thanks for listening. I know whoever started it was not thinking about it- may not even realize people do have bunnies as close family members. But the fact is we do and it is most hurtful and to me personally anyway, extremely nauseating. I am not attempting to be melodramatic- you know my profession so you know I have looked at this scientifically and have concluded that because I was so close to my bunny and the fact I still mourn his loss means anytime I see anything about the eating of bunnies, I become violently ill- like an extreme migraine kind of ill. Thankfully I am not on call because I would have to call in sick myself. (sigh!!).

The only solution I can come up with is to have a caution sign or something like that indicating this may be upsetting. For the other readers, substitute cat or dog for rabbit and understand what I mean, I hope!! I do know not everyone becomes ill but I spoken to others and they too are upset by this but do not like to say anything, I am just politely expressing my views without making any judgments about the person. I know ppl in this region used to hunt rabbits when they could not afford chicken but it is now no longer permitted in most areas. And I now many in Europe feed rabbit even to kittens which I do not claim to understand. I just hope we can change our ways and remember the bunnies of the world.
(amnd yes, I know the bunnies hunted are not the warm fuzzy Dwarf Netherland and other species favoured as pats) but I have also had as a pet when I was a child a bunny from my family's property and he was a wonderful companion,.
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Old February 24th, 2008, 03:55 PM
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Is t possible to place an alert at the top of rabbit posts like this for those of us who have had or have bunnies as pets. I was doing fine (and have been under great stress lately) until I read this.
CK, the title of the post is "Raw Rabbit - Advice Needed", and it's in the Raw Food forum, what the heck did you think this was going to be about? You have to take some responsibility yourself and just not click on these topics if they upset you.
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Old February 24th, 2008, 04:00 PM
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This doesn't bother me at all (I'm a bit squeamish about some of it, but I'll live) but I came into this form thinking "raw feeding a rabbit? Don't rabbits eat vegetables? This doesn't make sense at all!"

Hehe. I'm a fast thinker
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Old February 24th, 2008, 04:05 PM
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Thanks for listening. I know whoever started it was not thinking about it- may not even realize people do have bunnies as close family members.
*coughs* i have had several bunnies and while the thought of slaughtering them to feed my pets is a bit stomach churning, i also realize the common method of slaughtering animals commercially is far more sickening than what my supplier does to his animals. i feel like i am doing whats best ethically for my pets in feeding them and in a humane source for their (and potentially OUR) foods.

he last thing i wanted to do was upset someone on this subject. i am *quite* aware of the feelings of others on the subject which is why i posted in the raw feeding forum and also titled it 'raw'. considering rabbits are not carnivores and posts abotu feeding rabbits raw dont exactly apply to this forum AND posting a more graphic title to alert those who feel sensitive would defeat the purpose by being graphic in nature, i genuinely feel i did the best i could.

perhaps you should talk to Marko or even start another thread as to a better way raw feeders can approach this subject for i do not have a solution.

-ashley
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Old February 24th, 2008, 06:22 PM
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Raw Rabbit - Advice Needed
With all due respect, you do not know me, do not know how I think and cannot possible know how I would interpret this. For the record, I have been under extreme stress and I am sorry you would choose to be so negative in my response in which I attempted to be moderate and understanding, merely to make a point. It was all I asked, nothing more, nothing less. There was no need to be snarky and I simply do not understand why you would do that. I would NEVER do that to anyone regardless of who they were. I try to be a sensitive caring person and all I can ask is that we all try to do the same. I have to say with few exceptions, most people here are very kind and I have made many good friends here and wold accept any comment they made about this to me. I am not being controversial - I just want to point out how upsetting this is. I see rabbit, I think, Oh good, maybe I can help someone with their bunny. And since I managed to make it through Harvard, I think I can read. If I choose to interpret it one way, itr is because from experience one never is certain of what one might discover in a post. Not everyone is specific and I am sure I myself have not always been if it came down to it.

I work with dying people every day - and lately have spent most of my days in the ICU - not as a doctor as is usually the case but as a family member (for the record, it is much easier being the doctor but I knew that since I have also been a patient often enough in the ICU) - and I am utterly and completely exhausted. I won't say much more lest I make the wrong comment but your response is not one I appreciate.

As a scientist, I make no presumptions about titles. It has been my experience that here, they can mean anything. I perhaps have not always been as specific as possible either in my titles but I usually do try. That said, your comment just makes me feel that while I was politely asking a question - and do appreciate want4rain's answer - I am not suggesting it is anyone's fault (I made it clear it not something not all of us is likely to consider. This is a diverse group so one cannot possibly think we all will think the same. The snarky response about reading the title is just uncalled for and upset me all over again - it was needlessly unkind and not anything I would ever say even to someone I was debating in a public or even private forum!. I believe in diplomacy and do not understating in any way why anyone would choose to belittle me for asking one mere question. I never belittle anyone here, ever!! This is a site where we have typically been polite and kind and please consider that in your responses.

I know I am upset about other issues but it all has me in tears again, sigh! Please - for once- don't think of yourself Think of how you would feel if someone made this comment - probably inadvertently and not deliberately, but about your cat or dog. How would you feel? Then think about it? Please!!!!

When someone writes a post I wonder about, I reread and try to think of that old proverb "Do not criticize anyone until you have walked half a mile in his (or her - one has to be gender neutral these days. :-) - and then I wait before I hit the submit button. I do not want to hurt anyone. I want to be sure what I have said is understood in the best possible way. I do sometimes write to quickly but that is usually because I have a very busy schedule and do not always have the time to read everything. I even seemed somehow to have missed out on all the posts I missed in the tome I was away which saddens me- I kept the computer on and the page open but went to post a newspaper article - about the kitten who survived - (God knows we need good news stories, well I do anyway, lol) - and then I seemed to loose them. They are of course around here somewhere and I am sure folks will help me manage to get caught up.
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Old February 24th, 2008, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Gibbons View Post
This doesn't bother me at all (I'm a bit squeamish about some of it, but I'll live) but I came into this form thinking "raw feeding a rabbit? Don't rabbits eat vegetables? This doesn't make sense at all!"

Hehe. I'm a fast thinker
HAHAHHA




but ......but.....why eat rabbit when you can eat chicken?? and you most certainly CANNOT have my foster rabbit

personally....if you need to kill it, then it's best you let it be. They're not gonna know the difference anyways so why take another life?

but then if you don;t someone will buy it anyways...sigh...vicious cycle
i hope Mister enjoys his special treat
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Old February 24th, 2008, 07:02 PM
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Cyberkitten, you really need to chill out. Maybe go take a hot bath and read a good book instead of reading stuff that upsets you. Even if you didn't get the gist of this thread from the title, nobody made you read the rest of it.
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Old February 24th, 2008, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberKitten View Post
With all due respect, you do not know me, do not know how I think and cannot possible know how I would interpret this. For the record, I have been under extreme stress and I am sorry you would choose to be so negative in my response in which I attempted to be moderate and understanding, merely to make a point. It was all I asked, nothing more, nothing less.
youre right, i do not know you, nor do i really know anyone else on here. my title and thread were both appropriately stated and placed. i guess i expected most to look before they leap and if they didnt, accept the unwanted substance THEY jumped in.

Quote:
There was no need to be snarky and I simply do not understand why you would do that. I would NEVER do that to anyone regardless of who they were. I try to be a sensitive caring person and all I can ask is that we all try to do the same.
right but you did. you called me out for not being sensitive to YOUR needs of which i was suppose to divine out of thin air. not only am i suppose to divine YOUR needs... but also anticipate any other need anyone else who may or may not stumble upon this thread of which was clearly stated and placed in a forum of which people discuss feeding raw whole meats to their carnivorous companions. i feel like an evil rabbit butcher now. thanks.

Quote:
I have to say with few exceptions, most people here are very kind and I have made many good friends here and wold accept any comment they made about this to me.
imnot entirely sure what this means. i am unkind?

Quote:
And since I managed to make it through Harvard, I think I can read.
thats nice you made it through Harvard but honestly, right here you sound like you are trying to tell me you are smarter than i am because you made it through Harvard. and i dont think im reaching to come to that conclusion.

Quote:
If I choose to interpret it one way, itr is because from experience one never is certain of what one might discover in a post. Not everyone is specific and I am sure I myself have not always been if it came down to it.
EXACTLY!! read YOUR statement again, apply that to how i might feel right now.

Quote:
I work with dying people every day - and lately have spent most of my days in the ICU - not as a doctor as is usually the case but as a family member (for the record, it is much easier being the doctor but I knew that since I have also been a patient often enough in the ICU) - and I am utterly and completely exhausted. I won't say much more lest I make the wrong comment but your response is not one I appreciate.
*sigh* listen, its a really great thing you do in your field of work. we *all* know what you do and how hard it is for ANYONE in your position. for how wonderful of a thing as it is, i find it a little lame thats its also an excuse in some thread on a cat and dog forum. please please do not blame me for your crummy afternoon NOR expect me to make changes to accommodate YOUR potential bad days.

Quote:
As a scientist, I make no presumptions about titles. It has been my experience that here, they can mean anything. I perhaps have not always been as specific as possible either in my titles but I usually do try. That said, your comment just makes me feel that while I was politely asking a question - and do appreciate want4rain's answer - I am not suggesting it is anyone's fault (I made it clear it not something not all of us is likely to consider. This is a diverse group so one cannot possibly think we all will think the same. The snarky response about reading the title is just uncalled for and upset me all over again
im really restraining my SNARKY MONSTER.

Quote:
- it was needlessly unkind and not anything I would ever say even to someone I was debating in a public or even private forum!. I believe in diplomacy and do not understating in any way why anyone would choose to belittle me for asking one mere question. I never belittle anyone here, ever!! This is a site where we have typically been polite and kind and please consider that in your responses.

I know I am upset about other issues but it all has me in tears again, sigh! Please - for once- don't think of yourself Think of how you would feel if someone made this comment - probably inadvertently and not deliberately, but about your cat or dog. How would you feel? Then think about it? Please!!!!
look, i made a completely innocent post in the CORRECT forum, of which warns you by its simple objective that some content probably isnt what you want to read and you made the CHOICE to read it and THEN flamed me(politely but all the same) for.... i dont know?!?! im still not sure what you are so upset about other than you read my thread.

let me say this very clearly-

i *always* think of what others think. when i am driving, walking through the grocery store, in raising my children, in every single person i interact with. sure, i make mistakes when a focused attention isnt called for but in any situation where i am capable or asked, i pay attention to what others will think of and how they will react to my actions.

Quote:
When someone writes a post I wonder about, I reread and try to think of that old proverb "Do not criticize anyone until you have walked half a mile in his (or her - one has to be gender neutral these days. :-) - and then I wait before I hit the submit button. I do not want to hurt anyone. I want to be sure what I have said is understood in the best possible way. I do sometimes write to quickly but that is usually because I have a very busy schedule and do not always have the time to read everything. I even seemed somehow to have missed out on all the posts I missed in the tome I was away which saddens me- I kept the computer on and the page open but went to post a newspaper article - about the kitten who survived - (God knows we need good news stories, well I do anyway, lol) - and then I seemed to loose them. They are of course around here somewhere and I am sure folks will help me manage to get caught up.
you are acting VERY sensitive and trying to blame me for something of which i have NO control over. you made a choice to read this and it upset you. do not ask me to do something about it because it is not MY responsibility to accommodate your sensitivity. i didnt post my thread in an inappropriate thread, if i had, your feelings would be justified. perhaps in the future you should look at where the thread is located or go through the individual forums and avoid raw feeding all together so no one can offend your delicate sensibilities.

-ashley
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Old February 24th, 2008, 09:00 PM
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HAHAHHA




but ......but.....why eat rabbit when you can eat chicken?? and you most certainly CANNOT have my foster rabbit

personally....if you need to kill it, then it's best you let it be. They're not gonna know the difference anyways so why take another life?

but then if you don;t someone will buy it anyways...sigh...vicious cycle
i hope Mister enjoys his special treat
honestly, Chris and i had a nice long talk about why this is a better alternative to grocery store meat when it is so convenient.

1) this guy is WAY more ethical with the treatment of his rabbits than commercial farmers to their chickens. we are also looking to raise our own chickens when we have a fence for it btu dont have it now... and im not COMPLETELY sure in my ablity to butcher them. i want to be in a position to look after a flock of chickens until their natural death... just in case. we are also looking at a large freezer and bringing in whole goat but thats in the future too.

2) its a far more complete diet for him and the cats.

3) its much cheaper than beef, lamb or pork and at times turkey which go between $2.00/lb and $4.00/lb where as this will be $1.00-$0.75/lb.

4) its more species appropriate.

AND!!!

5) we are supporting a local farmer.


we would like to get to a point where we rely on local farmers for the things we can not grow or make ourselves and have done a really good job of that so far. ive been rather proud of myself. *preens*

-ashley
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Old February 24th, 2008, 09:14 PM
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oh crud, i also meant to say thanks for the above advice. i thought i wrote a response but must have gotten side tracked?? i wrote the guy back saying i was thinking of skinned (i dont think i can handle the skin being on. call me a coward!!!) from the neck down and unless anyone can tell me some concrete nutritional value to the intestinal tract and bladder id like that removed also. i will probably ask him to leave it whole if the bones are not too difficult to get through. i sure hope this is still up for discussion... perhaps i should start another thread??

-ashley
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Old February 25th, 2008, 05:43 AM
MerlinsHope MerlinsHope is offline
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I wouldn't feed the fur, that can pose a problem with some dogs.
Chicklet, hi. I'd like to know what problems you've observed about dogs eating fur. I don't know of any. Any dog /wolf/coyote in the wild would certainly eat the fur, so I'd like to hear your take on that.

Thanks
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Old February 25th, 2008, 05:45 AM
MerlinsHope MerlinsHope is offline
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you are acting VERY sensitive and trying to blame me for something of which i have NO control over. you made a choice to read this and it upset you. do not ask me to do something about it because it is not MY responsibility to accommodate your sensitivity. i didnt post my thread in an inappropriate thread, if i had, your feelings would be justified. perhaps in the future you should look at where the thread is located or go through the individual forums and avoid raw feeding all together so no one can offend your delicate sensibilities.
Here. Here Ashley!!!!

This is a raw feeding forum. It doesn't pretend to be anything else, so if the subject upsets someone, I agree, they should move on to other subjects which are less disturbing to them.
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Old February 25th, 2008, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Chicklet, hi. I'd like to know what problems you've observed about dogs eating fur. I don't know of any. Any dog /wolf/coyote in the wild would certainly eat the fur, so I'd like to hear your take on that.

Thanks
Merlin
I always threw my left overs after skinning a rabbit to my big dogs,
If there was a lot I had to do then Id freeze the extra and feed later on.
Figured it would be good for them, like in the wild,
They were use to getting a lot of different types of meats after butchering anyways.
And I never had a problem with any of them that I can recollect.

But then I started noticing different ones throwing the Rabbit all back up,
One especially (Lola a Big Bull Mastiff) got so sick I had to take her to the vets,
So I did the elimination thingy and it turned out the fur was the culprit.
Because of this I Stopped giving the fur and the problem ceased in all of them,
I have wondered tho,
Home rabbits tend to have thicker coats then the wild ones,
Maybe that somehow had something to do with it,

Anyways Thats why I mentioned not givin it.
But each dog is different, maybe hers will be fine with it.
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  #19  
Old February 25th, 2008, 07:32 AM
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Kashi Kashi is offline
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CyberKitten - back away from the raw feeding forum, please.

What did you think that this could possibly be about, given the location of the thread and the title ?

What more warning could you need to be warned that this might upset you ?
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  #20  
Old February 25th, 2008, 07:49 AM
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clm clm is offline
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I actually considered raising rabbits for food at one time. Problem is I would need a small barn to do it the way I'd want to and then I'd probably never be able to kill any of the rabbits and end up with a bunch of bunny pets instead.

I love rabbit myself, and I know all of my cats enjoyed it. I've only ever seen it offered in a canned food a few times ( I wish I could remember what brand it was), and have not been able to find any recently.
The dogs have never had the pleasure of eating it, and I'm thinking it might be a good idea for them to start them on a little raw food. I'm not sure yet if I would leave the fur on or remove it. I'm thinking with Bentley's inclination to calamity, it would be safer to have the rabbit skinned.

Cindy
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  #21  
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:08 AM
MerlinsHope MerlinsHope is offline
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Quote:
I always threw my left overs after skinning a rabbit to my big dogs,
There is a substantial difference between a dog just eating bits fur alone, which is far different from a dog eating fur together with mouthfuls of meat/and fur. There's a very good chance that it wasn't the fur making your dogs up-chuck, it was the fat attached to the back of the skin.

There are essential elements in all parts of the prey, so it shouldn't be discouraged really.

Your dogs throwing up could have been from ingesting too much fur/fat at one time. Given natural prey, they would not be eating it in the same manner, but would be eating it together with mouthfuls of meat.

The whole point of prey model feeding is to offer the entire prey animal to the dog so that they can benefit from all parts of the prey. In the wild, they would not have someone skinning and gutting their prey for them - do you not agree?.



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  #22  
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:11 AM
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jiorji jiorji is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by want4rain View Post
1) this guy is WAY more ethical with the treatment of his rabbits than commercial farmers to their chickens. we are also looking to raise our own chickens when we have a fence for it btu dont have it now... and im not COMPLETELY sure in my ablity to butcher them. i want to be in a position to look after a flock of chickens until their natural death... just in case. we are also looking at a large freezer and bringing in whole goat but thats in the future too.
oh yeah i don't doubt that. My comment wasn't really to get you to not do it. I'm kind of indifferent really. I mean when it comes to animals it IS the circle of life and you know it makes sense in a way.

When I was little my grandparents used to raise chickens in Europe and I can tell you, we stopped because when you put that much effort and care into them, there;s a certian emotional attachment you get as well, and my grandfather was doing the deed you know but when it came down to the last one they figured that was it. They couldn't raise them and then kill them after.

so you might just end up with 10 chicken pets
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  #23  
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:18 AM
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Chicklet Chicklet is offline
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I hear you, and logically it makes very good sence,

but I think there was abit more to it in this case
I'm not good at typing things out, Talking is easier
But usually when Butchering was going on there was alot of different forms given, skin , meat, organs, feet, etc being held back for the dogs,
Once the Butchering was finished
they got a feeding that included far more then just skin (fur)alone.
Thats why I said I had to do the elimation thingy, Because there was always many other forms of stuff given as well.

We just raised & butchered our own meat, Which included chickens, rabbits, ducks, goats, pig, quails, etc and some wild game like deer (when we was lucky enough to get one) the beef was a bit to big so we always took that to a local butcher,

So usually when we did the butchering there was more then one kind of meat on the go,
The rabbits, chickens & smaller animals were often held back until a butcher time came for a larger animal.
I had just noted that the throwing up always followed a rabbit in the mix.

We never did Goose, I just couldn't bring myself to lower the axe, Had one as a pet once, amazingly smart creature,
Just couldn't do it, Same as with guinea pigs, was people around here raising them for meat and raving how good they were,
thought I'd try them, That one didn't work out, Ended up with lots of pet Guinea pigs and started showing them,

When your 5 yrs old and handed a Scalded chicken And ordered to pluck it, and not to come back to the house till you do, Well, you learn fast tears don't work, (Also found out chicken don't pluck very easy once there cold).
So I jumped on the band wagon and got my chicken plucked pronto after that.

Last edited by Chicklet; February 25th, 2008 at 08:59 AM.
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