Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog food forum > Feeding raw food to dogs & cats - B.A.R.F - RMB - Homecooked diet

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 8th, 2008, 03:15 PM
JulesMichy JulesMichy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 25
Calcium supplements?

Hi, I'm new the forum. Just signed up so I can ask a question regarding my mother's dog. When she got Baxter in October, he was a 4-month-old miniature poodle puppy. I live in another town, but when I came for a visit I found that she was feeding him ***** brand dog food. The ingredients list was awful, and it scored 51 out of 100 on dogfoodanalysis.com's rating scale.

I insisted that she take him off of that garbage and went with her to buy a different food. We started him off on Nutro Ultra wet food, which was the highest quality food she could buy in her tiny hometown. He had bad diarrhea after two weeks on that, so she wanted to switch him back to *****. I said no, we'd try something else. She drove up to visit me, and I took her to my local feed depot, where they have much higher quality foods.

We went through several brands. Wellness Puppy, Wellness Core (grain-free), Innova, Merrick... All with similar results: he'd eat a few bites and then lose interest, or refuse to eat at all.

Over Thanksgiving, I gave him the turkey neck. He LOVED it, and not a drop of diarrhea. So she got it in her head that she wanted to feed raw. Great! Fantastic! I printed off all kinds of information on how to get started and mailed it to her. Come to find out a few weeks later that she's been feeding him pretty much exclusively boneless flank steak.

I'm worried about his calcium intake. He does get some meat with bone in it, but it's not often enough. Boneless meat makes up a large part of his diet, and I'm concerned. I've tried talking to my mother, but she doesn't seem to grasp the seriousness of a puppy less than a year old with a calcium deficient diet.

My question is, I have a tub of Rep-cal, a calcium supplement for reptiles, sitting in my kitchen unused from when I fostered a tortoise last fall. Could that be sprinkled over the boneless meat as a way to incorporate more calcium into his diet?

Also: I plan on making up a batch of ground meat + offal patties to send home with her so all she has to do is thaw one out and feed it to Baxter on nights when she's feeling lazy. Does anyone have any recipes, and some tips on how to incorporate a good amount of calcium into the patties? I know you should blend an egg with the shell on, but yogurt and cottage cheese seem like they would make the mixture too runny to hold together.

Thank you so much for any help in advance.

Last edited by Ford; February 8th, 2008 at 03:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old February 8th, 2008, 03:51 PM
pitgrrl's Avatar
pitgrrl pitgrrl is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: MTL
Posts: 1,199
You can just save your eggshells, grind them up in a (clean!!) coffee grinder and use that. The measurement I've typically read is 1/2 tsp. per pound of meat.

You could also get a copy of Dr. Pitcairn's Guide to Natural Health For Dogs and Cats http://www.amazon.ca/Pitcairns-Compl...2507214&sr=8-1
Which talks about various forms of calcium supplementation pretty extensively.

You can see the cal. supplementation chart from the above book here:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=tEso...vYUUg#PPA67,M1


All that said, there are some pretty decent arguments for why using raw bone (rather than bone meal-which is heated-or other supplements) is preferable, but if it's no calcium vs. not the ideal form, the choice is obvious.

The other thing to maybe stress to your mother is the need for organs, various meat sources, fish, etc. Perhaps doing as you planned and making frozen patties and sending along the recipe would help her figure it out?

Last edited by pitgrrl; February 8th, 2008 at 03:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 8th, 2008, 05:18 PM
JulesMichy JulesMichy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitgrrl View Post
The other thing to maybe stress to your mother is the need for organs, various meat sources, fish, etc. Perhaps doing as you planned and making frozen patties and sending along the recipe would help her figure it out?
I have stressed it, believe me. Before I even gave her the information on how to get started, I told her over and over: "If you're going to do this, you have to do it right. You are literally responsible for balancing your dog's meals."

I've got access to an awesome meat market here, with all kinds of offal and less consumer friendly cuts of meat, like ox tail, turkey neck, etc. Not an hour ago I bought 8 lbs of chicken back for $2! So I figure I'll be helping her along until she gets the hang of it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old February 12th, 2008, 08:58 PM
want4rain's Avatar
want4rain want4rain is offline
Swift Tribe
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 2,445
im so jealous!! i wish our meat market was as friendly here. i cant even FIND mine!! LOL!

so i THINK its 1tbs of ground up egg shell (mortar and pestle works well too) to each pound of meat. i would strongly urge you(her) to feed whole meat instead of ground for dental reasons.

some easier to eat bones for smaller dogs (and cats too) are chicken breast, necks wings and backs, fish bones are also quite easy to chew up. see if you cant get your hands on chicken feet too. you can substitute chicken for any of the SMALLER game birds such as corning game hens, smaller ducks... im not sure how big pheasant is. turkey is too big though. most of the rest of the bones (maybe not fresh pigs feet??) will be too hard.

im sure i will have more for you tomorrow!

-ash
__________________
Pastafarians Unite!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1buym2xUM

Swift Tribe-
Chris- Husband, 04/30/77
Cailyn- Daughter, 07/05/99
Jeffrey- Son, 03/24/06
Alex- Son, 03/25/09
Mister- Black LabX, M, 08/06(?)
The Shadow Stalker- Gray Tux DSH, M, 04/04
The Mighty Hunter- Black Tux DSH, M, 04/04
Baby Girl- Tabby DMH, F, 12/03(?)
Frances- Tortie, DSH, F, 2007(?)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 12th, 2008, 09:25 PM
JulesMichy JulesMichy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 25
So far, from what she's told me, Baxter gets:

- boneless, skinless chicken breast (because he choked on the split breast with the bones a few times)
- turkey neck
- pork neck
- boneless flank steak
- ground turkey
- eggs

So mostly whole meat, with only some ground. The problem is getting her to feed completely raw (not seared, not smoked), some organs and more bones. And fish. She said she offered him some canned salmon, but he wouldn't eat it. I'm going to try again with some whole, raw smelt and see if that changes things. If not, then I'll have her buy some fish oil to supplement.

I think I might be able to get my hands on some bonemeal at my local health food store. If not, then ground eggshells will have to do for now until I can get Baxter on a regular, good ratio of bone-in meats.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 14th, 2008, 06:30 AM
MerlinsHope MerlinsHope is offline
Chow Pei Rescue
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Prescott
Posts: 237
Quote:
- boneless, skinless chicken breast (because he choked on the split breast with the bones a few times)
- turkey neck
- pork neck
- boneless flank steak
- ground turkey
- eggs
Hi Jules

I'm curious that when the puppy turned up his nose at the premium dog foods, you quit so quickly. Always remember this, if a dog isn't sick, they will never purposely starve themselves, and sometimes, to get your point across you have to play the waiting game with them and stand your ground. Just ask Myrka ! lol

Out of curiosity why are you removing the skin from the breasts ? - or did they just happen to be skinless?
Dog's need a certain amount of fat. Dogs get their energy from fats, so it's an important component of their diet as is the bones. The chewing of bones is also important for their dental hygiene. The bones - It's not all about calcium.

Right now the diet you have going here isn't necessarily a sound one.( unless I'm missing something and sorry if I am ). There is no source of Omega 3 or 6 (which at some point is far more important than calcium), there is hardly any source of bone (turkey necks are not a food, but a recreational bone), and ground meats are not conducive to good overall nutrition or dental hygiene, so you may want to re-think your menu considerably to at least include Essential Fatty Acids (salmon/herring/smelt/sardines/mackerel) or fish oil

There also doesn't seem to be any 'offal' in your diet (hearts, livers, lungs, brains, tracheas, etc.)... these items contain vital vitamins, minerals and other important dietary components as well.

Maybe you can take a look at diet sharing by feeding an high quality food one meal, and some fresh meat another meal. At least in this way you'd be guaranteeing your puppy better nutrition. What you're doing now is not a diet of merit at all. Sorry! - or like I mentioned, consider making some important changes so that you have more nutrition going .

__________________
www.MerlinsHope.com

Last edited by MerlinsHope; February 14th, 2008 at 07:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 14th, 2008, 10:56 AM
JulesMichy JulesMichy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 25
MerlinsHope, this isn't my dog. I am a 24-year-old who lives away from home, in another city. I am trying everything in my power to get my mother to get her dog on a healthy, complete diet.

I know she should have stuck with the premium dog foods longer. I've told her this. I've told her that dogs won't starve themselves. I've told her that she needs to toughen up. It hasn't worked.

I'm trying my best to correct a bad situation, while working with someone who really doesn't understand the seriousness of an improper diet. And I really don't appreciate being attacked by someone who would have known that this wasn't my dog if they'd actually read my post.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 14th, 2008, 07:02 PM
MerlinsHope MerlinsHope is offline
Chow Pei Rescue
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Prescott
Posts: 237
Geez.,.. relax... I wasn't attacking you.
You put the question out there, I was responding that's all
Good luck with your challenge.
__________________
www.MerlinsHope.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 14th, 2008, 09:46 PM
JulesMichy JulesMichy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinsHope View Post
Geez.,.. relax... I wasn't attacking you.
You put the question out there, I was responding that's all.
You might want to work on your tone, then. Because you came off incredibly judgmental and condescending, especially considering you hadn't read through my post and made a lot of assumptions.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 8.33%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08 PM.