Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog food forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 14th, 2008, 11:28 PM
white wrabbit's Avatar
white wrabbit white wrabbit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada (just outside of Edmonton)
Posts: 173
Multi Menu dog food?

is any of this good for a dog to eat..

i did notice the top first 2 on the list are different then all the other ones reading the ingredients.. (no corn in the first ingredients)

http://www.multimenu.ca/EN/pro_dogs.html
__________________
if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCALATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old January 14th, 2008, 11:53 PM
luckypenny's Avatar
luckypenny luckypenny is offline
Doggie Wench
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Philippe-de-Laprairie, Qc
Posts: 11,813
I don't know which one in particular you were referring to but, after taking a look at a few, they certainly wouldn't be something I'd feed my dogs. Take a look at this link Rainbow has provided in other threads:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....badingredients

It'll give you an idea as to what to avoid in foods.
__________________
"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old January 15th, 2008, 12:07 AM
white wrabbit's Avatar
white wrabbit white wrabbit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada (just outside of Edmonton)
Posts: 173
i was looking at the the Holistic salmon and the Evolution fish.. they are the first two on the top row.. (the rest have yellow corn as second ingredient.. so she will not be having that)

i did look at the list of dog food ingredients and did notice brewers rice was on it.. but i think i have also seen it in just about every dog food ingredients i have looked at as well..
__________________
if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCALATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old January 15th, 2008, 12:29 AM
luckypenny's Avatar
luckypenny luckypenny is offline
Doggie Wench
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Philippe-de-Laprairie, Qc
Posts: 11,813
There's also vitamin K3. Not recommended at all.

Are you looking for an affordable yet better quality food? Have you taken a look at the food forum here and the many suggestions provided? You'll find lots of ideas. If none of them suit you, or you are unable to find them in your area, post back and others will guide you in the right direction, I'm sure.
__________________
"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old January 15th, 2008, 12:56 AM
white wrabbit's Avatar
white wrabbit white wrabbit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada (just outside of Edmonton)
Posts: 173
actually i have what most people like to refer to as my horse i don't have horse shoes up my you know what. i have the whole horse. there is a draw for a years supply at my local radio station club site and i have won several of these draws in the last year. (and i mean several). and i figured i would ask about this brand of dog food before i entered in to it.. i was looking at the two i mentioned and they looked better then the Acana that she is on now.. but when it comes to choosing dog food it can be hard.. and i know Acana is not a bad one..
__________________
if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCALATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old January 15th, 2008, 01:01 AM
luckypenny's Avatar
luckypenny luckypenny is offline
Doggie Wench
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Philippe-de-Laprairie, Qc
Posts: 11,813
Well, if you win, perhaps you can always donate it to a local rescue or shelter? I don't mean to say that they deserve a lesser quality food...some food is better than no food and I'm sure you're gesture would be gratefully appreciated.
__________________
"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old January 15th, 2008, 01:23 AM
white wrabbit's Avatar
white wrabbit white wrabbit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada (just outside of Edmonton)
Posts: 173
it is funny that you said that i was actually thinking the same thing.. about the donating it to a shelter.

i also guess i do got time to decide as well and do some more research in to the first two if i can even have them if it is really good for her.. so i will enter the draw. it won't be a waste of my points.. besides i still may not win anyway..
__________________
if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCALATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old January 15th, 2008, 01:24 AM
white wrabbit's Avatar
white wrabbit white wrabbit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada (just outside of Edmonton)
Posts: 173
oh i almost forgot thank you very much for the help
__________________
if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCALATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old January 15th, 2008, 01:41 AM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
It's not the worst food out there and I'm sure a shelter or rescue would love to receive it should you win. The ingredients I don't like are:

1. fish meal - unspecified type of fish...all meats & fish should be named.
2. brewers rice - low quality ingredient with no nutritional value.
3. chicken liver digest - low quality ingredient used as a flavour enhancer
4. tomato pomace - mainly the skins of tomatoes that may contain leftover pesticide
5. menadione sodium bisulfite complex - controversial ingredient linked to cancer.

I would leave your dog on the Acana. It's a good food from a company that I respect and trust with great customer service.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old September 24th, 2008, 03:41 PM
Trapper's Avatar
Trapper Trapper is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
Multi Menu is a high quality pet food. All natural, no preservatives and all Canadian ingredients (except for New Zealand Lamb).

I had a conversation with a vet, and I asked about brewer's rice. He told me that brewer's rice is simply broken rice that isn't used for human consumption strictly for aesthetic reasons.

Tomato pomace is is a middle protein, a good source of B Vitamins and a fair source of Vitamin A. It is commonly used in pet foods as a source of dietary fiber, to produce firm stools. Tomato pomace also increases the palatability of cat diets. Do you think other companies peel their tomatoes before adding them.

Chicken liver digest is a material which results from chemical and/or enzymatic hydrolysis of clean and undecomposed chicken liver tissue. There are some beliefs that since the liver removes toxins in the animal that there may be some toxins that remain. I still see liver in the grocery stores and it is recommended for iron and protein for humans.

As far as menadione sodium bisulfite complex, Vitamin K was studied in 1970 and showed an increase in Lukemia in a small test group. There has been no other proof of this since. Vitamin K is essential in the breakdown of proteins and blood coagulation.

I do a lot of research on the food I feed my pets and I don't stop at one or two websites that are riding the wave of the pet food scare of last year.

I feed Multi Menu Evolution and I have found it to be a great feed. Small firm stools, virtually no shedding (Brittany) and great energy. I like that it's delivered for free too.

Just my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old September 24th, 2008, 03:54 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
And did the vet you had the conversation with have a degree in nutrition?

Vet school only provides a day or two course which is given by a nutritionist from one of the pet food companies like Medi-Cal/Royal Canin or Science Diet/Hill's. I would sooner get information from other sources unless the vet is more informed than from what they learned from the vet school course.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine is posted above.

Last edited by rainbow; September 24th, 2008 at 03:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old September 24th, 2008, 04:24 PM
Purpledomino's Avatar
Purpledomino Purpledomino is offline
NOT a senior member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 487
Multi Menu Evolution

INGREDIENTS
Fish meal, brewer’s rice, ground barley, chicken fat preserved with mixed tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), soybean meal,whole oat, cellulose powder,beet pulp, sun-dried tomato pomace,whole flax seeds (a source of omega-3 fatty acids), dehydrated whole eggs, lecithin, chicken liver digest, salt, calcium carbonate, calcium propionate, potassium chloride, dehydrated kelp, choline chloride, L-ascorbic acid (vitamin C), glucosamine sulfate, garlic powder, Yucca schidigera extracts, proteinates (zinc,manganese, copper), ferrous sulfate, chondroitin sulfate, zinc oxide, Dl-alpha-tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), aniseed, juniper, milk thistle, cinnamon, thyme, chicory root, devil’s claw extracts, sodium selenite, thiamin mononitrate, copper sulphate, calcium iodate, manganous oxide, nicotinic acid, calcium d-pantothenate, retinyl acetate (vitaminA), cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), folic acid, riboflavin,menadione nicotinamide bisulfite (vitamin K3), biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, cobalt carbonate.

Undetermined fish meal, not a quality ingredient IMO. Grain heavy, and lots of fillers, such as cellulose powder (basically sawdust) which is pretty high up there in the ingredient list...as well as beet pulp. If you think you are getting this food delivered for free....think again. Especially with todays gas prices, you definately are paying through your pet food bill where it is hiding in there somewhere. These companies have to recoup their costs somewhere. Personally, I would go with a company that spent its money in the quality ingredients that my pet would eat.
__________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated” Mahatma Gandhi


My loyal menagerie... (all neutered, spayed, and gelded...and YOU aren't safe either!)

Ruben (Bullmastiff)
Emmy (Miniature Pinscher)
Petie (Miniature Pinscher)
Shadow (Miniature Pinscher)
Zoe (APBT)
Tito (Paint Gelding)
Francesca (Miniature Horse Filly)
Vincenzo (APHA gelding)


Lots of fishies......
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old September 24th, 2008, 05:00 PM
Trapper's Avatar
Trapper Trapper is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
And did the vet you had the conversation with have a degree in nutrition?

Vet school only provides a day or two course which is given by a nutritionist from one of the pet food companies like Medi-Cal/Royal Canin or Science Diet/Hill's. I would sooner get information from other sources unless the vet is more informed than from what they learned from the vet school course.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine is posted above.

That would be great if it were your opinion and not verbatim from The Dog Food Project. Perhaps you are a pet food nutritionist. If so feel free to rebut my findings above. I would love to hear it.

The vet I talked to was well educated in the area of pet nutrition.

It is strange that you say cellulose powder is basically sawdust, and when you do an internet search, it is available at many health food stores as a good source of dietary fibre. As for it being high on the list, 90% of pet food is made up from the first 5 ingredients. As far as beet pulp, it is used to provide energy with little of no rise in glucose levels.

As far as free delivery, again try and be informed. It is easy to keep costs down when it is a home based business. Delivering is way cheaper than paying $15-$20 / sq foot for store frontage.



Forgive me, I am just a noob here and don't mean to get into an argument but there is more information out there than The Dog Food Project and Dog Food Analysis.com where there are gaping holes in their assumptions.

Thanks for listening. This is a great forum.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old September 24th, 2008, 06:18 PM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
I asked about brewer's rice. He told me that brewer's rice is simply broken rice that isn't used for human consumption strictly for aesthetic reasons.
AAFCO definition of Brewer's rice:
Quote:
The dried extracted residue of rice resulting from the manufacture of wort (liquid portion of malted grain) or beer and may contain pulverized dried spent hops in an amount not to exceed 3 percent.
The use of it in pet food has nothing to do with its lack of "aesthetics" and everything to do with how cheap it is. It has considerably less nutritional value than regular rice. This is a direct quote from a supplier of Brewer's rice:

Quote:
Second Heads and Brewers Rice
Second heads and brewers rice are one of the many byproducts that rice milling tends to create. Second heads are milled rice kernels that are one half to three quarters of the original kernel. Brewers rice is a milled rice kernel that is one quarter to half the size of a full kernel. Second heads, depending on their quality are used to make rice flour. If the quality of the second heads are poor, they will be sold for pet food or dairy feed. Brewers rice are sold for pet food and dairy feed exclusively.
Not that carnivores need rice to begin with.



And I have an even bigger problem with their line of cat litters. Their use of toxic (to cats) essential oils in a product that cats walk on multiple times a day is completely negligent! http://www.thelavendercat.com/3201/index.html

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph...therapyandcats
Quote:
Dogs and horses tolerate oils better than other animals. Cats are a totally different story. Cat's livers do not have the necessary enzymes to break down and excrete certain chemical compounds in essential oils. The chemical compounds, therefore, accumulate in a cat's body and are sometimes toxic to the point of death.

Cats are very sensitive to many chemicals. It is best to avoid any oil containing phenols: oregano, thyme, cinnamon (cassia), clove, savory, birch, and melaleuca (Tea Tree oil) or ketones: sage. Another group to avoid are the citrus and pine oils: lemon, orange, tangerine, mandarin, grapefruit, lime, bergamot, pine, spruce, and any fir oil. Many household cleaners and even pet products have these latter substances in them to make them smell nice to the owners. Symptoms of a toxic buildup include being despondent, clumsy, uncoordinated, partially paralyzed, vomiting, drooling or in a daze. The diagnosis for toxic poisoning is a blood test that shows elevated liver enzymes.
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler

Last edited by Ford; September 25th, 2008 at 01:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old September 24th, 2008, 06:22 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
It's not the worst food out there and I'm sure a shelter or rescue would love to receive it should you win. The ingredients I don't like are:

1. fish meal - unspecified type of fish...all meats & fish should be named.
2. brewers rice - low quality ingredient with no nutritional value.
3. chicken liver digest - low quality ingredient used as a flavour enhancer
4. tomato pomace - mainly the skins of tomatoes that may contain leftover pesticide
5. menadione sodium bisulfite complex - controversial ingredient linked to cancer.

I would leave your dog on the Acana. It's a good food from a company that I respect and trust with great customer service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
That would be great if it were your opinion and not verbatim from The Dog Food Project. Perhaps you are a pet food nutritionist. If so feel free to rebut my findings above. I would love to hear it.

The vet I talked to was well educated in the area of pet nutrition.

It is strange that you say cellulose powder is basically sawdust, and when you do an internet search, it is available at many health food stores as a good source of dietary fibre. As for it being high on the list, 90% of pet food is made up from the first 5 ingredients. As far as beet pulp, it is used to provide energy with little of no rise in glucose levels.

As far as free delivery, again try and be informed. It is easy to keep costs down when it is a home based business. Delivering is way cheaper than paying $15-$20 / sq foot for store frontage.



Forgive me, I am just a noob here and don't mean to get into an argument but there is more information out there than The Dog Food Project and Dog Food Analysis.com where there are gaping holes in their assumptions.

Thanks for listening. This is a great forum.

Excuse me but my opinion in post #9 is not verbatim from the dog food project website. Read for yourself....

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....badingredients

I did not comment about cellulose but I do agree with what purpledomino said.

I also did not say anything about beet pulp. There are far worse ingredients than that imo.

I also did not say anything about free delivery costs but I am curious to know what a bag of Multi Menu Evolution costs if you don't mind posting that information.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old September 24th, 2008, 06:43 PM
Trapper's Avatar
Trapper Trapper is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
Sorry, I was responding to both posts. I should have quoted both posts. It's just it seems I've read those same descriptions of those ingredients elsewhere and I was just offering my findings.

No problem, I pay $60 including tax here in New Brunswick.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old September 24th, 2008, 07:02 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
For what size bag (lb or kg) and is it the same ingredients as purpledomino posted?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpledomino View Post
Multi Menu Evolution

INGREDIENTS
Fish meal, brewer’s rice, ground barley, chicken fat preserved with mixed tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), soybean meal,whole oat, cellulose powder,beet pulp, sun-dried tomato pomace,whole flax seeds (a source of omega-3 fatty acids), dehydrated whole eggs, lecithin, chicken liver digest, salt, calcium carbonate, calcium propionate, potassium chloride, dehydrated kelp, choline chloride, L-ascorbic acid (vitamin C), glucosamine sulfate, garlic powder, Yucca schidigera extracts, proteinates (zinc,manganese, copper), ferrous sulfate, chondroitin sulfate, zinc oxide, Dl-alpha-tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), aniseed, juniper, milk thistle, cinnamon, thyme, chicory root, devil’s claw extracts, sodium selenite, thiamin mononitrate, copper sulphate, calcium iodate, manganous oxide, nicotinic acid, calcium d-pantothenate, retinyl acetate (vitaminA), cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), folic acid, riboflavin,menadione nicotinamide bisulfite (vitamin K3), biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, cobalt carbonate.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old September 24th, 2008, 07:18 PM
Purpledomino's Avatar
Purpledomino Purpledomino is offline
NOT a senior member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 487
Actually the Evolution formula probably is the best one that Multi Menu has as far as ingredients goes. I checked out the other formulations, and most have ground yellow corn and whole wheat flour in their ingredient lists, way up on top actually, something I would not agree is in a "high quality dog food". Just because a company claims their food is "all natural, no preservatives, and all Canadian ingredients" does not (IMO) mean it really is a quality food deserving of that title. Pedigree makes those claims as well, and I would call it a real stretch that they produce dog foods of superior caliber.

All I have to say is...that it's my dollar, and if its going into my dogs, I'd prefer that it contained less cheap fillers, grains, and fluff ingredients and more real meat protein sources, and quality carbohydrates. After comparing Multi Menu with other holistic brands, it really falls short, and there are many much better alternatives out there. As far as the cellulose thing goes...I think it's unecessary to add such things, beet pulp too, although I agree that their are worst things than beet pulp as well. I just prefer to feed it to my horses...who are herbivores.
__________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated” Mahatma Gandhi


My loyal menagerie... (all neutered, spayed, and gelded...and YOU aren't safe either!)

Ruben (Bullmastiff)
Emmy (Miniature Pinscher)
Petie (Miniature Pinscher)
Shadow (Miniature Pinscher)
Zoe (APBT)
Tito (Paint Gelding)
Francesca (Miniature Horse Filly)
Vincenzo (APHA gelding)


Lots of fishies......
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old September 24th, 2008, 07:27 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
Purpledomino, do you know how many lb/kg are in the large bag? I presume that is the size of the one that Trapper is paying $60 for.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old September 25th, 2008, 08:45 AM
Trapper's Avatar
Trapper Trapper is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
It's a 15kg bag. I e-mailed the company and they told me this about the fish.

Quote:
We use white fish - herring or menhaden. The fish in Evolution comes mostly from Atlantic Canada.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old September 25th, 2008, 01:52 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
It's a 15kg bag. I e-mailed the company and they told me this about the fish.

Quote:
Quote:
We use white fish - herring or menhaden. The fish in Evolution comes mostly from Atlantic Canada.

I would ask them if the fish they use has been preserved with ethoxyquin by the supplier that they purchase it from. All fishmeal is preserved with ethoxyquin unless the company purchasing it specifically requests the supplier not to do so.

And the company does not have to include ethoxyquin in their ingredient list as "they" did not add it. :sad:
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old September 25th, 2008, 02:07 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
No problem, I pay $60 including tax here in New Brunswick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
It's a 15kg bag.

You pay $60 including taxes for a 15kg bag of Multi Menu Evolution.

I pay $57.57 including taxes for a 13.5kg bag of Orijen Adult.

Certainly not much difference and Orijen's ingredients are far superior.

Here is the ingredient lists for both products.....


Multi Menu Evolution

INGREDIENTS
Fish meal, brewer’s rice, ground barley, chicken fat preserved with mixed tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), soybean meal,whole oat, cellulose powder,beet pulp, sun-dried tomato pomace,whole flax seeds (a source of omega-3 fatty acids), dehydrated whole eggs, lecithin, chicken liver digest, salt, calcium carbonate, calcium propionate, potassium chloride, dehydrated kelp, choline chloride, L-ascorbic acid (vitamin C), glucosamine sulfate, garlic powder, Yucca schidigera extracts, proteinates (zinc,manganese, copper), ferrous sulfate, chondroitin sulfate, zinc oxide, Dl-alpha-tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), aniseed, juniper, milk thistle, cinnamon, thyme, chicory root, devil’s claw extracts, sodium selenite, thiamin mononitrate, copper sulphate, calcium iodate, manganous oxide, nicotinic acid, calcium d-pantothenate, retinyl acetate (vitaminA), cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), folic acid, riboflavin,menadione nicotinamide bisulfite (vitamin K3), biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, cobalt carbonate.


Orijen Adult

FRESH REGIONAL INGREDIENTS
Deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, lake whitefish, chicken fat, sweet potato, whole eggs, turkey, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils, salmon, natural chicken flavour, sunflower oil, sun-cured alfalfa, dried brown kelp, carrots, spinach, peas, tomatoes, apples, psyllium, dulse, glucosamine Hcl, cranberries, black currants, rosemary extract, chondroitin sulfate, sea salt.

TONIC HERBS AND BOTANICALS

Chicory root, licorice root, tumeric root, funugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, zea mays, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosehips.

ORGANIC MINERALS

Iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate.

PROBIOTIC MICROORGANISMS

Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

PREMIUM VITAMINS

Mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E), choline chloride, vitamin A, vitamin D3, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12, folic acid, biotin.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old May 6th, 2009, 01:46 PM
Chocomama Chocomama is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
It's not the worst food out there and I'm sure a shelter or rescue would love to receive it should you win. The ingredients I don't like are:

1. fish meal - unspecified type of fish...all meats & fish should be named.
2. brewers rice - low quality ingredient with no nutritional value.
3. chicken liver digest - low quality ingredient used as a flavour enhancer
4. tomato pomace - mainly the skins of tomatoes that may contain leftover pesticide
5. menadione sodium bisulfite complex - controversial ingredient linked to cancer.

I would leave your dog on the Acana. It's a good food from a company that I respect and trust with great customer service.
Okay, so, let me clear up what all these ingreds are about - I am a vet tech and have some info to clear up.

Fish meal - unspecified, because it is a mix of white fish- "meal" means it is the main part of the fish - the good part (by-product is the left over).

Brewer's rice - it is actual rice that has not been over processed into the pretty little kernels humans eats, so, actually, it is better than what we eat.

Chicken Liver is GREAT for an extra iron boost for dogs especially, who, in the wild eat a raw diet - Chicken liver is essential for good health

Tomato Pomace is a vitamin ingredient. It provided vitamin D and C for the animal. It is actutally really good for them. It is good for solid stool health for a dog and cat.

Menadione sodium bisulfite complex - was tested in 1070 on HUMANS and a very SMALL part of the tested were diagnosed with leukemia.

So, hopefully, I have not upset anyone- this is just what I have learned from my studies - so, by no means does everyone have to agree, but, I thought I should clear it up.
thanks
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old May 6th, 2009, 02:11 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocomama View Post
Okay, so, let me clear up what all these ingreds are about - I am a vet tech and have some info to clear up.

Fish meal - unspecified, because it is a mix of white fish- "meal" means it is the main part of the fish - the good part (by-product is the left over).

Brewer's rice - it is actual rice that has not been over processed into the pretty little kernels humans eats, so, actually, it is better than what we eat.

Chicken Liver is GREAT for an extra iron boost for dogs especially, who, in the wild eat a raw diet - Chicken liver is essential for good health

Tomato Pomace is a vitamin ingredient. It provided vitamin D and C for the animal. It is actutally really good for them. It is good for solid stool health for a dog and cat.

Menadione sodium bisulfite complex - was tested in 1070 on HUMANS and a very SMALL part of the tested were diagnosed with leukemia.

So, hopefully, I have not upset anyone- this is just what I have learned from my studies - so, by no means does everyone have to agree, but, I thought I should clear it up.
thanks

Just wondering who teaches your pet nutrition course?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old May 6th, 2009, 02:22 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
I am presuming that your nutrition course is being taught by someone from Royal Canin Medi-Cal or Hill's Science Diet.

Here's a thread with some information from Dr. Meg Smart, the professor of small animal nutrition at the University of Saskatchewan ....

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=62384
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old May 6th, 2009, 06:13 PM
kandy kandy is offline
Hazel's Personal Servant
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocomama View Post
Okay, so, let me clear up what all these ingreds are about - I am a vet tech and have some info to clear up.

Fish meal - unspecified, because it is a mix of white fish- "meal" means it is the main part of the fish - the good part (by-product is the left over).

Brewer's rice - it is actual rice that has not been over processed into the pretty little kernels humans eats, so, actually, it is better than what we eat.

Chicken Liver is GREAT for an extra iron boost for dogs especially, who, in the wild eat a raw diet - Chicken liver is essential for good health

Tomato Pomace is a vitamin ingredient. It provided vitamin D and C for the animal. It is actutally really good for them. It is good for solid stool health for a dog and cat.

Menadione sodium bisulfite complex - was tested in 1070 on HUMANS and a very SMALL part of the tested were diagnosed with leukemia.
I would also be curious as to who is providing the nutritional part of your education. But regardless of the instructor, I hope that you will agree that any ingredient list goes in order of weight. So for the food that was being discussed in this very old thread - Fish meal is followed by brewer's rice and then ground barley, chicken fat and soybean meal as the top 5. I hope that you would also agree that dogs are carnivores. This food has 1 actual meat based protein in the first 5 ingredients and 3 grains. That is not a carnivorous diet. While dogs can process plant based proteins - their bodies are not efficient at it - as a vet tech I'm sure you know this. Dogs need meat based proteins.

I have also done tons of research into dog foods - my research has been based more on the actual ingredients, the definitions of those ingredients and their health benefits. I have a few ingredients that I will not accept in a food I will feed to my beloved dogs, and others that I will put up with if the overall list meets with my approval. The following is my opinion on the individual ingredients picked out:

Fish Meal: I would agree that 'meal' is not totally bad - its the fact that it is unspecified meal that would concern me the most. If it's whitefish, then it should say whitefish meal. "Fish Meal" could be anything from anchovies to swordfish - and it tells me that the company making the dog food takes whatever is cheapest for that particular manufacturing run. That way their labels are not inaccurate. The fact that the AAFCO allows 14% undigestible material to be included in meals does bother me.

Brewer's Rice: This is the small rice kernel fragments left over from other milling processes. It's a cheap filler and you would certainly never see it marketed for human consumption.

Chicken Liver: I would agree that liver itself is beneficial. However, Liver digest goes through an additional chemical processing to turn it into the powder.

Tomato Pomace: This is a stool hardner. Yes, it contains vitamins - but it's used in dog food because of its ability to harden the stool. Stool consistency is a good indicator of health, so if something is artificially hardening the stool, then that indicator is lost. Beet pulp is also a stool hardner. If the animal is healthy, they don't need stool hardners and there are other sources of vitamin D and A. This food has both - and they are fairly high up on the ingredient list (8th and 9th).

The synthetic vitamin K - yes, this is a controversial ingredient. If a dog food contains vitamin K, I would prefer it to be a natural form - like the chicken liver for instance.

Personally I stay away from any food with unspecified meat meals/proteins, by-products of any kind, corn, brewer's rice, glutens of any kind, beet pulp, and tomato pumace. I will tolerate either beet pulp or tomato pomace in a food, but not both.

I hope that as you continue your studies, you will keep an open mind, do your own research and not take everything that a dog food industry rep says as gospel. There are good manufacturers out there - but IMO the ones that load their food with corn and by products, and then add vitamins to make it balanced according to the AAFCO guidelines are not it.
__________________
Kandy
Livin in a Newfie Drool Zone
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old September 10th, 2010, 03:53 AM
dailone dailone is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1
re:Multi Menu dog food?

100% Complete and balanced: 49er 26/14 is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient profiles for maintenance of the adult dog.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude protein (min.) 26%, Crude Fat (min.) 14%, Crude Fiber (max.) 4.5%, Moisture (max.) 10%

Ingredients: Pork Meal, Ground yellow corn, ground brown rice, chicken by-product meal, dried beet pulp, chicken fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), corn gluten meal, fish meal, brewers dried yeast, salt, potassium chloride, zinc sulfate, iron sulfate, zinc polysaccharide complex, vitamin e supplement, yucca schidigera extract, calcium carbonate, copper sulfate, opper polysaccharide complex, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, manganese polysaccharide complex, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, riboflavin supplement, vitamin a supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, choline chloride, biotin, lecithin, rosemary extract, thiamine mononitrate, ethylene diamine dihydriodide, menadione nicotinamide bisulfite, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin b12 supplement, folic acid.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old September 10th, 2010, 03:01 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,759
All forms of menadione are a synthetic version of Vitamin K known as Vitamin K3 and all of them are undesirable in pet food.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old December 14th, 2010, 10:01 PM
Dublin loves it Dublin loves it is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Barrie ont
Posts: 4
Multi menu

Multi Menu is an excellent choice for all pets and it's Canadian! Someone campared it to Orijen.... Orijen's first ingredient is deboned chicken, they make it sound so good but the chicken is filled with water, less protein, deboned can be misleading as to higher quality. What you want is chicken meal for your first ingredient. Sea salt found in 5% of pet food products and Orijen analyzed and it is used to cover up rancid meat and fat, can cause kidney and heart disease, hypertension -- used to encourage cats to drink, source of sodium chloride.

And you thought it was worth spending the extra money!

Also, the reason Multi Menu has so many different recipes with varying prices is because they're trying to meet everyones budget. So if you're buying the cheap stuff like Pedigree or Kibble and bits, Multi Menu has something way better for your pet!

Below is a copy/paste from another website. There's no way I'd buy Orijen! Multi Menu has a strict standard and is inspected by the AAFCO

Petfood recall prompted by cat deaths
24 November 2008
A gourmet imported petfood has been withdrawn from sale after an outbreak of chronic illness and death among Sydney cats.


Vets have put down at least five cats over the past week and treated more than a dozen others suffering from paralysis.

Dr Georgina Child said the only factor that linked all the cats was a specialist pet food called Orijen, which is imported through a Canadian company, Champion Petfoods.

"There is a highly suspicious link because this is an uncommon expensive food in this country at the moment, and not sold in supermarkets," Dr Child said.

"But all tests that have been done so far haven't given us an answer."

First symptoms included wobbliness or weakness in the animal's hind legs, which could then progress to the front limbs.

The condition did not appear to be infectious, Dr Child said, nor typical of a nutritional deficiency.

The marketing manager of Champion Petfoods, Peter Muhlenfeld, confirmed the cat deaths had been traced back to Orijen's dry cat food, and the problem appeared to be restricted to Australia.

He said samples sent back by the Australian distributor had a "strange odour".

The company is investigating whether irradiation upon entry into Australia was the source of the contamination.

Last edited by Dublin loves it; December 14th, 2010 at 10:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old December 15th, 2010, 09:15 AM
Dublin loves it Dublin loves it is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Barrie ont
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by dailone
100% Complete and balanced: 49er 26/14 is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient profiles for maintenance of the adult dog.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude protein (min.) 26%, Crude Fat (min.) 14%, Crude Fiber (max.) 4.5%, Moisture (max.) 10%

Ingredients: Pork Meal, Ground yellow corn, ground brown rice, chicken by-product meal, dried beet pulp, chicken fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), corn gluten meal, fish meal, brewers dried yeast, salt, potassium chloride, zinc sulfate, iron sulfate, zinc polysaccharide complex, vitamin e supplement, yucca schidigera extract, calcium carbonate, copper sulfate, opper polysaccharide complex, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, manganese polysaccharide complex, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, riboflavin supplement, vitamin a supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, choline chloride, biotin, lecithin, rosemary extract, thiamine mononitrate, ethylene diamine dihydriodide, menadione nicotinamide bisulfite, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin b12 supplement, folic acid.
This is not a Multi Menu recipe !!

Last edited by Blackbear; December 15th, 2010 at 11:47 AM. Reason: fixed quote
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 AM.