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  #61  
Old January 2nd, 2007, 08:21 PM
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That being said, are you sure it is your router, and not a worm or something on one of your computers? I'm wondering if they are somehow accessing your wireless computer and getting on the net that way.
that's just it, we *don't* know... thanks to mesaana we got some kick-butt technical help now , we finally started to record the router's log tonight to see if anyone else is accessing our network from the outside. In 24 hours we will get a picture of the activity. IF we don't see anyone else's IP, only our two machines, then we have a bigger problem than we thought... "worm"

well, come to think of it... how do we STOP someone from accessing our network from the ouside, period! yes we locked the router to our two MAC addresses, we changed our network name, we are not broadcasting it, we added all the security levels the router allowed... what a freaking headache eh?

"stay tuned"!
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  #62  
Old January 2nd, 2007, 08:36 PM
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I had thought of getting one,but now I am concerned.And have zero technical skills.Do you think they will come up with easier fail proof ways to stop this from happening with future models?
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  #63  
Old January 2nd, 2007, 11:17 PM
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I had thought of getting one,but now I am concerned.And have zero technical skills.Do you think they will come up with easier fail proof ways to stop this from happening with future models?
You're general purpose run of the mill hacker won't get you into this problems....if they do go beyond trying for your WEP and go on to spoof (fake) their MAC to yours then you've got a pro you're dealing with and you're pretty much screwed any way you look at it. Don't let this throw you since again most people aren't pros. The run of the mill hacker may try the WEP key but if s/he's just in for the heck of it (to run Limewire off your connection kind of thing) then they'll give up and try for something else.


From the sounds of it TD you've got one hell of a pro or you've got something on you're computers that is dialing China through the naughty lines or something....If the logs say you have only the two MACs....well you could have a worm...or you are dealing with an uber pro....

If its a pro then you're kinda out of luck as to the wireless and you'll probably have to settle for wired (at least for now). It should only cost you guys the money to get the two cables for the router....you're wireless router should already have at least two ports (places to stick the wire into) for the wires....depending on how old your laptops are you should have a port on each of them too. So it really should only cost you like 30 bucks total (15 for each wire after taxes).

I would say after seeing what's going on with this wireless thing to try wired for a month....if the two of you are connected through the wire for a month and you've still got a crazy high bill then its on your computer.

So now I'm gonna change tact here....

Download and run the following programs (unless you've already got them). Don't run them all at the same time:

- Spybot S&D
- Adaware
- Ewido Antispyware

Try running online virus scans...there's a few free ones here:
http://www.mountaincable.net/index.php?id=4,450,0,0,1,0

Those are from my provider....they have awesome customer service too (not to brag)....Don't worry about the patches just the free virus scans....those are most important right now....

What are you using as your virus scanner right now?

Megan
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  #64  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 01:24 AM
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Hmm... Maybe I'm not modern enough, but I'd just plug me in... Just for a month.. Or even 15 days. You buy all the stuff, "try it out" until you have to bring it back, and then bring it back and see if there's a dent in your bill...

I know people who get one wireless account for a whole building, so it's likely that it's easily accessible by your neighbors...Too bad there's no gadget to firewall your whole apartment...

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  #65  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 08:59 AM
x.l.r.8 x.l.r.8 is offline
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If I'm reading this right, someone was still accessing your account while you had your network hard wired, if this is so then you have someone accessing your account using your information, not your home system, all they need is your passcode and your login details, this could have been picked up via spyware or keystroke program, or worse, someone from the store. I would start by changinf your connect password, your username to connect with, the other computer usernames and add some numbers to the end of your passwords on those computers, however as I said, if they have been using your account with the wireless turned off and your system hardwired, then they are using your information, not your physical router.
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  #66  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 09:59 AM
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I forgot to add, I'd also switch providers, if for no other reason than out of spite. If they can't be bothered to help you, then I'd get rid of them, even if you do get this figured out.
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  #67  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 10:02 AM
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OK I'm going to cut and paste all your information in one document and bring it home for hubby to analyse and get going with this... i had no idea there were so many knowledgeable folks here!

last night we started recording the access log through our router to see if any MAC addresses showed up besides our two. So far nothing, but we will give it 48 hours to be sure (the last bill showed pirate activity every single day but maybe they are skipping days right now?). If we still see nothing then we're in deep doodoo and will have to consult a specialist to get this resolved... luckily we got connected with a Pro last night who can help us (thank you mesaana!), he will lend us the cables and splitter for a couple of weeks for the test, and then it's a process of elimination, I guess.

All this crap started happening around early August, there were no problems before that. Maybe a netpirate moved into a nearby building in July, who knows? Could it be possible that Videotron is somehow responsible or involved, ie mis-calculating our daily usage? of course they say "no way" and are not interested in helping us, either...

i wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. feels like a home invasion and feeling so helpless to stop it!
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  #68  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by x.l.r.8 View Post
If I'm reading this right, someone was still accessing your account while you had your network hard wired, if this is so then you have someone accessing your account using your information, not your home system, all they need is your passcode and your login details, this could have been picked up via spyware or keystroke program, or worse, someone from the store. I would start by changinf your connect password, your username to connect with, the other computer usernames and add some numbers to the end of your passwords on those computers, however as I said, if they have been using your account with the wireless turned off and your system hardwired, then they are using your information, not your physical router.
As far as I can tell this isn't what's happened...she's turned the router OFF at night and is still being hit with high bills...

If your provider isn't even making a *token* try at helping you then they suck and you should move to a different company. I've heard bad things about Bell but nothing this bad ever...at least they have *passable* customer service.

Good idea to give it 48 hours...is there any way that YOU can check the usage or get whatever company you're with check the usage? Or would that be asking the company too much?

Seriously...record how much usage you're at, don't go online at all for two days (turn off your wireless cards in the laptops) and then ask them if the usage went up....if you can't well there goes that idea.....if the usage goes up then you have a hijacker somewhere....

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Last edited by dtbmnec; January 3rd, 2007 at 10:31 AM.
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  #69  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 10:42 AM
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Good idea to give it 48 hours...is there any way that YOU can check the usage or get whatever company you're with check the usage? Or would that be asking the company too much?

Seriously...record how much usage you're at, don't go online at all for two days (turn off your wireless cards in the laptops) and then ask them if the usage went up....if you can't well there goes that idea.....if the usage goes up then you have a hijacker somewhere....
Videotron tracks our daily usage, as we have a monthly quota, BUT cannot tell us from which IP address the data is linked to, only "to our account" whatever that means! and they don't do jack ***** for you if you use a broadband router... Hubby is the only one that downloads files of any size and he has been tracking everything for months now, there is no way he downloads 3 GIGS of data in one day not even in a month! During the holidays we were not home for a few days so used no internet, on our next bill it will be easy to track.

the problem is that we KNOW we are being hijacked, but we're on our own on how to fix it we've been given wonderful advice and suggestions here, and we're trying everything one at a time. videotron sucks, that's all i have to say... and we might very well ditch them soon!
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  #70  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 11:11 AM
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At this point it sounds like you're in good hands TD, but I would seriously recommending having Videotron cancel your account and open a new one with a completely different login (if you're staying with them that is). If you're going to Bell, then you'll automatically get new info, but make your password as ridiculously difficult as possible and take all the steps to lock down your router (WPA-PSK keys, Access lists with only your MAC addresses, etc)
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  #71  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 11:18 AM
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jawert1, can videotron do that??! if that would fix it...

i'm only worried at this point that we have a worm inside our laptops and changing accounts wouldn't do anything, if the pirates have inside access, you know? or am i completely wrong here and it *would* fix the issue, regardless?

i went to check out Bell's rates and they're just ridiculous and super-restrictive quotas we don't have a land-line so their only other option sucks Guess we're stuck with videotron.
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  #72  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 04:28 PM
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I'm with Bell, albeit in Ontario, and my account doesn't have any restrictions. I'm not sure what you are currently paying, but my monthly rate is comparable to the one I'd have to pay for cable internet.
If you don't have a land line, Bell has to offer you the service anyway, its a CRTC ruling. Call them up and ask about the 'dry loop' service. I'm not sure how much it costs, but I know they have to offer you internet service independent of whether or not you have their phone service.
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  #73  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 04:30 PM
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i'm only worried at this point that we have a worm inside our laptops and changing accounts wouldn't do anything, if the pirates have inside access, you know? or am i completely wrong here and it *would* fix the issue, regardless?
If the problem is coming from one of your machines, changing your account info with Videotron won't help... Have you used all the on-line scanners? I'm thinking Trend Housecall... Its my favorite and its pretty good.
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  #74  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 05:52 PM
jawert1 jawert1 is offline
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TD, take a look at Kaspersky Anti-virus, it's readily available at Kaspersky.com. The free product is so ungodly thorough that you'll need to let it run and do nothing with your machine, with your modem shut down. It will find anything on your machine that's nasty or even close to a security risk. A good place to start and most companies, if they feel you may come back on them financially for allowing this sort of fraud to take place, will at the minimum change out your account info Just make it known that you want to escalate to that person's manager that they haven't done enough to ensure your concerns are being addressed properly.
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  #75  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 05:57 PM
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thank you jawert1, we'll download kaspersky and let it run tonight while we sleep and the modem is off, it looks good! so far the router log file only shows our two IP addresses since last night, no-one else... so the pirates have either taken a break today OR it's a worm. we're close to finding out soon!
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  #76  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 08:58 PM
x.l.r.8 x.l.r.8 is offline
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The problem is your tracking yourselves, not the account. if I were next door and had your details I could just connect up and use your account. It wouldn't go through your system and only the bills would show I'm doing it. How do I get this information? easy, i hack your mail box witha spyware keystroke program, I already had access to your system and once I have your e-mail account details I just make sure a copy of all your e-mails also come to my email account, so if you change details the verification email also comes to me with all your new passwords. i would always use an obscure email account to send details to, or a work one away from the system for that very reason. It only takes an e-mail from videotron asking you to log on to verify details, if thats a jacked site when you go to log on the information you see as ****** will apear as the exact keystrokes you used, then they forward you to a standard "page not available, please try again" site and you log in the usual way from a bookmarked page, but now they have all the details they need, they whip into the account and add themselves to your account, any information you recieve they also now recieve, eventually they have enough details to do what they like. Usually you need to be targeted for this to happen or have your wireless account on 24/7, that makes you an easy target as they see a signal over a few days and they know they have all night to play, most hackers work in the small hours or when your downloading so you don't realise they have sent spyware and are looking around your system files as the hard drive light is flashing away, (if it did this an night you would be pretty quick to notice). My only advice is ensure your router is off when not in use, and if they still have access to your account, time to shut it down, reopen a new account with different numbers and protect the system (add an 'i' in front of your MAC, sorry I couldn't resist) this was one of the reasons I made the swap to apple, I have never bothered with anti-virus's for 7 years now.
I am in a lot of doubt they go through your router, I think they have your connection details. videotron should offer some protection from this happening if you can't stop it by turning your router off, if they don't then they have no reason to keep your details confidential. Time to pay for a better service or at the very least look around for someone else.
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  #77  
Old January 3rd, 2007, 09:19 PM
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my head is spinning now it's too much information and i don't know where to start! we both have kaspersky now (it looks great!), the trial version but it's for 40 days so it's cool. Will run full system scans tonight after the modem is shut off. Who knows we might find something?

Videotron refuses to help unless we ditch the wireless router and connect to the modem only with cables, how stupid is that? We might be forced to do that after all, just to prove to them something is very wrong and they need to take some responsibility. We've done everything possible on our end, to no avail... now it's a question of flushing out the scammers and making sure they don't come back. the question remains HOW?

what a headache
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  #78  
Old January 24th, 2007, 10:10 PM
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UPDATE

Got our December bill today (Dec 11 to Jan 11 usage) and OMG!!! it's normal! no extra fees due to excess quota by hijackers! i'm soooo happy...

now i'm not sure if the bastids just took a nice vacation down south or something during the holidays, and that's why our monthly allowance is within bounds, but maaaaybe fiddling with the MAC addies helped? anyways... we've disabled the wireless a week ago and are hooked via cable, and will continue do run this test until February 11th (next billing cycle). Then we go wireless again and IF we get slammed with more "illegal hijacking" activities then we can make a case with Videotron, we'll know what the problem is.

whew. took 6 months but i am we got rid of the leaches...
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  #79  
Old January 24th, 2007, 10:41 PM
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yay! Hope you've nailed the problem now! What a hassle it's been for you!
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  #80  
Old January 29th, 2007, 03:00 PM
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Oh that is sooo good to hear!

Hopfully you've got it licked

I'm hoping for you

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Old February 27th, 2007, 08:05 PM
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OMG now I'm all freaked out!
We just installed a wireless router, because we jsut got a laptop!! Now I'm afraid all this will happen to us!
how do I go ito the wireless router and add passwords??
I read all of the above, but have no idea how to get into the wireless router
I even tried putting the disk back in....but nothing came up!!
HELP
sorry for hijacking your thread TD
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  #82  
Old February 27th, 2007, 08:12 PM
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no the more people know about this, the better!

we STILL have the problem. we shut the broadband router off for a month (a whole billing cycle) and connected our two laptops directly to the modem with long cables... what a PITA that was. and our last bill STILL shows pirate activity! Videotron said sorry, they can't help us, looks like we have a (rare) trojan and need to get an expert hacker clean our laptops :sad: of all the lowdown, dirty rotten things to happen. why us??

I know it's not me cuz i reformatted my laptop last november, in the middle of pirate activity, and nothing changed. so hubby is doing his now, big job, and will hopefully wipe out the trojan in the process. If that doesn't work, we'll have to pay an expert to find out what is going on.

it can't get crappier than this. Since August we're paying $35 per month EXTRA because of these morons, except for the December bill. Looks like the crooks took a long vacation down south for the winter or something on the money they're probably making pirating things

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Old February 27th, 2007, 08:18 PM
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i would reformat both pc's and change isp provider before reconnecting
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Old February 27th, 2007, 08:19 PM
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Old February 27th, 2007, 08:25 PM
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i would reformat both pc's and change isp provider before reconnecting
one of the computers has already been formatted... why change the ISP provider though? just curious. right now videotron is our only affordable option, since we don't have a phone landline...
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Old February 27th, 2007, 11:51 PM
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Sorry you have hd such a hassle - we have a wireless as well and have a couple neighbours who have very lax security and I made it a point to let them know (fotunately, they are also friends and were thankfuk for the advice - one did not even have a password!!!).

You've already rec'd some good advice so I will just add mine anbd you can opt
what to choose to do: (and I would also ask for help from Linksys -they do have good tech support and also talk to your isp);

1. Turn off SSID Broadcast. As someone already suggested tjo using other language, most of the factory or company defaults are alrready knoqwn and crackers ore phishers can get them if they do not. (ie the bad guys). Leaving SSID on is like leaving your garage door open with all your valuable in it, cars, snow blower, etc, etc.... and use a really difficult password, nothing simple!!! DSomething that takes time to crack! And I am assuming you have encrypted WEP.

2. Implement MAC security but you have done thatr, right?

3. There are some technqiues we do just to keep the would be intruders confused (and we live near so many universities that I woud not at all surprised there are many would be "attackers" on our wireless's doorstep so to speak. (Tho students are hardly the ones one needs to worry about, it is the crooks that are the problem. These include mocing around the router - so it is not always in the same place.

4. Don't restrict the 192.168.1.x as a Class C subnet for IP nos. You could split up the local network into network segments using subnet classes tho some say this can be accesses by ppl who are determined to get in as well, sigh.

Not sure of this will help but there is an article here:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1152933,00.asp

Finally, what does your ISP say about this? Do you check each night so that you know who has accessed your computer and then go after them or at least give their IP numbers to someone. I had someone with some page I just accessed with Internet Explorer and its isecurity allowed this program -and every program, file that is on a site ends up on your hard drive and some of them are malware and can take over your computer,. This one did that in spite of all my precautions. I figured out his IP number and went after him - virtually,, not personally, lol (he was a "businessman" - using the term loosely - in Montreal - wioth contracts to create ads for some pretty credible compaies like Sears so I wrote to them and others and to him. (I was more than a Reverse DNS lookup to say the leasyt but I think it is always good to know who is accessing your computer, whether you have wireless or not).

I would gather all that material - with the relevant programs and go to the police with them. It is still break and enter, however you cut it even tho new law is being made even as I type.

Finally, by far - given how fast the crooks catch up - the best protection now is WPA2 encryption so check to see if your router and all of your wireless computers and devices support it.

You can always turn it back on them - if they access your wireless, you ha ve access to their passwords and so forth!! Go after them, again not by yourself but with legal help.

I hope this helps - it is all so basic I know, I wish I could give you more but there is more info out there that can hekp. Talk to the ppl at Linksys and other security companies.

Good luck!!!!!
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Old February 28th, 2007, 08:33 AM
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CK, we've done all we could for the wireless, as per your suggestions below.... the problem is not the router, it is a trojan in our systems. Even with the wireless off and sitting in a box, unplugged, and our laptops physically connected to the modem we are STILL getting hijacked. our ISP said all activity was through our modem and nobody could access it UNLESS there was a trojan in our machines it's rare but it happens. so there is nothing they (our ISP) can do, they said that unless we fix this problem, no matter who we use for our ISP service won't make a difference, we will still be hijacked... that after reformatting hubby's computer we will be ok... if not... we'll have to pay a clever technician to purge our systems. we just don't know what to look for :sad:
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Old February 28th, 2007, 01:06 PM
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If it is a trojan, the best thing to do is reformat. Back up the dats you want/need and reformat!!! (It is sometimes not a bad idea to reformat once a year anyway - not that I always do that but on occasion we do).

There are programs that will ID trojans - like Spybot and Ewido Anti-Malware. HijackThis. is also a good program for getting rid of trojans and malware that have attached themselves to your registry if you do not want to go to the extreme of a reformat. Trojans are insidious and you should get rid of it before even using your computer - do you know what trojan it is?
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Old March 13th, 2007, 01:13 PM
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Schwinn Schwinn is offline
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Location: Georgina
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Did you get this fixed? Or is it too soon to tell?

The other option is taking it to someone like Best Buy. I believe thier rates are reasonable, and at the end of the day, it'll pay for itself if you stop paying $35/month.

By the way, do a search for AVG Free, and you should find the site that provides my anti-virus software. I've been using it for a while now, and it came recommended by a relative who is an accountant for a medium size company. They use it. The only thing is, it MIGHT not get the virus/trojan since it was installed first, but it'd be worth a shot.
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