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Old November 23rd, 2006, 11:58 PM
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Is this complete?

Hi everyone! I have a new puppy on the way and want to start him on raw from the get-go. I have never tried to do raw before though, and after some research, I have compiled a possible diet. Could everyone who feeds raw sort of rate the diet and tell me what it is missing or what shouldn't be there?
There are seperate sections of the diet.

Base Mix
Broccoli
Carrots
Cauliflower
English Peas
Kale
Sweet Potatoes
Potatoes
Seedless Apple Slices
Blueberries

I plan to mix all the ingredients together in the blender, and freeze the mix, thawing daily portions. To the Base mix I plan to add ground meat or egg, varying the type every few days. Sometimes chicken, sometimes turkey, sometimes lamb or beef, and once or twice a week whole ground eggs with shells. The meat is to be ground with bone. If the bone isn't present, then bone meal will be added in appropriate amounts.

During the feeding, I plan to add warm water to the food to increase temperature slightly, and to help hide the "Wellness Super5 Mix" and powdered enzymes that will be added in appropriate amounts to every meal. I want to add tripe to the diet. Should I feed tripe by itself when I do feed, or should I add it to everything else? How often should I feed it?

Am I missing anything? Are there any flaws? I though about adding a small amount of oatmeal or brown rice to the mix, but don't see the point. Should I add it anyways?

Thanks everyone. I am a little nervous about trying to feed raw. I keep thinking I am going to screw up, or that it is going to be way too expensive, and I constantly have to talk myself out of giving up and feeding Canidae instead.
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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:25 AM
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Im not a pro at this by all means, but are you going to be putting all those fruits and veggies in the meal everytime?
I just think that if you do, it is a bit too much.

Quote:
To the Base mix I plan to add ground meat or egg, varying the type every few days. Sometimes chicken, sometimes turkey, sometimes lamb or beef, and once or twice a week whole ground eggs with shells. The meat is to be ground with bone. If the bone isn't present, then bone meal will be added in appropriate amounts.
To start with definately go with chicken, it really is the easiest to digest, and since the pup will probly be coming off a crummy brand Kibble diet ( from other thread) it could upset his little tummy at first.
Also with puppies they need much more protien, so i would probly focus more on the meats than the veggies.

What type of raw diet do you hope to feed?
There are a few different types. I myself am new to the prey model diet.
meaning, the dogs eat meat and thats pretty much it. I can not find green tripe so I do have to substitute some veggies, but in smaller amounts, basically pureed and hidden well in the food.

Quote:
I plan to add warm water to the food to increase temperature slightly, and to help hide the "Wellness Super5 Mix" and powdered enzymes that will be added in appropriate amounts to every meal. I want to add tripe to the diet. Should I feed tripe by itself when I do feed, or should I add it to everything else? How often should I feed it?
You could heat the meat up a bit in the oven ( a few minutes, just brazing it*I think thats the word *) Are you going to be feeding kibble and raw at the same time in the same meal??? Its not really recommended because kibble is digested quicker than raw meat and can cause some problem( im sorry like i said i am no pro here )
As far as digestive enzymes, thats your call, but later on may not be needed.
And tripe, once again I am not familiar with using it due to not being able to find any. But all i know on that subject is to make sure it is green tripe not the bleached white tripe.

and finally for now, i dont see the need for the oatmeal or rice... So i would just leave that out of it.

But all in all you seem to be on the right track, just try not to make it more complicated than it has to be. Your puppy in the end will let you know what you are doing wrong ( poops and so on)
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Old November 24th, 2006, 08:31 AM
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We feed green lamb tripe to our puppy and we give it as an addition to his meals (usually a couple of table spoons). It is very nutritious for them and they love it but be warned...it smells absolutely
We buy ours at a holistic pet food store...not sure where you would find it in Mississippi as we are in Toronto, Canada. Check around with some pet food stores in your area.
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Old November 24th, 2006, 08:50 AM
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Definitely cut down on the veggies (no more than 10% of the entire daily diet, if you must feed any at all), up the meat content, keep bone to around 20%, go liberal on the eggs, fish, other proteins, and give that puppy whole pieces to chew on (serve them half-frozen for those teething periods coming up). whole chicken drumsticks or legs are a great choice, as are pork riblets, turkey necks, whole raw fish (except wild pacific salmon). supplements are Ester-C, Vitamin E, and Fish Body Oil for the omega 3's.... and that's about it! good luck, that is one lucky puppy to climb out of the hellhole and into heaven
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Old November 24th, 2006, 11:38 AM
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Yes, I was planning for it to be the base of every meal, but it would be no prob seperating everything into seperate bags, and feeding from different ones every day instead of all of them at once. I am not feeding the wellness 5mix food, I am talking about the supplement. Should have specified, sorry. I don't think its good to mix kibble and raw, I have read about the problems it causes.

I don't really understand the prey model diet. Wild dogs and even "tame" ones who hunt occasionally eat the stomach of their herbivore prey and get their greens that way, so I don't understand how just muscle and bone simulates prey, but like I said I don't know much about the diet. I guess I am kind of combining different kinds of Raw. I plan to feed bones, but only in ground up form. And I do plan to add veggies, so I guess thats different? Or can the tripe completely take the place of the veggies?

I kind of want to try whole bones, but I am afraid of choking and splintering. Probably unrational worry, but would it be okay to start off with bone meal and add whole bones gradually?

I can order tripe online, and thanks.

So less veggies or tripe, and more meat. Sounds easy enough. I believe all those supplements are in the Wellness Super5 supplement mix. I read something about raw fish containing too many toxins? Or is that just with the salmon? Are sardines packed in spring water okay? Because my dad eats those and we always have cans around. Maybe as an occasional thing?

Is it possible to over-supplement with the fish oil? Because I could add extra...

Thanks everybody, this is all very confusing to me. Everything I read seems to contradict something else I read, and I am really scared of messing up!
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Old November 24th, 2006, 12:00 PM
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i know it's a bit daunting at first, but when you've been feeding raw for a few weeks... you will relax... and after a few months you will be educating others too

Quote:
I don't really understand the prey model diet. Wild dogs and even "tame" ones who hunt occasionally eat the stomach of their herbivore prey and get their greens that way, so I don't understand how just muscle and bone simulates prey, but like I said I don't know much about the diet. I guess I am kind of combining different kinds of Raw.
Wolves do not eat the stomach contents of their prey, you will find further information on this here: http://rawfed.com/myths/stomachcontents.html

Quote:
I plan to feed bones, but only in ground up form. And I do plan to add veggies, so I guess thats different? Or can the tripe completely take the place of the veggies?
dogs need whole bones to stimulate their gums, cleanse their teeth, exercise their jaw, prime their stomachs with digestive juices, etc, so be sure to feed SOME bones even if only in recreational form. in fact this whole site http://rawfed.com/myths/ should give you all the answers you need to familiarize yourself with the "prey model" diet

Quote:
I read something about raw fish containing too many toxins? Or is that just with the salmon? .
only wild pacific salmon contains a potentially dangerous parasite. you can still feed this fish raw but you need to freeze it for a few weeks beforehand. other fish are fine, assuming they are from a "clean" source and served fresh (or freshly frozen). however try to avoid feeding lots of tuna... mercury contamination.

Quote:
Are sardines packed in spring water okay? Because my dad eats those and we always have cans around. Maybe as an occasional thing?
Is it possible to over-supplement with the fish oil? Because I could add extra..
Sardines are an excellent addition to any raw diet, best served whole and raw but tinned (in water) is also perfectly fine. feed as much as you want, really.. and some dogs get loose stools when ingesting too much fish oil so if not feeding much cold-water (oily) fish, do supplement with capsules but if fish is a regular part of the pup's diet, no need to add any extra.

excited yet? LOL
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Old November 24th, 2006, 12:21 PM
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Thank you. I am reading the site now.

Are organ meats needed, if I am feeding tripe? And aren't needle-like fish bones.... dangerous?

I have endless questions and must seem very annoying.
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Old November 24th, 2006, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Are sardines packed in spring water okay? Because my dad eats those and we always have cans around. Maybe as an occasional thing?
Is it possible to over-supplement with the fish oil? Because I could add extra..
Just an FYI, anything canned is not raw. Those sardines are cooked. But still fine to feed. If you can get whole raw ones at the store, it would be a better choice.
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Old November 24th, 2006, 12:29 PM
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*wonders if the grocery store has whole raw frozen sardines*

I was suggesting the canned ones as sort of a supplement, you know for the fish oil.
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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:01 PM
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i can easily find whole frozen fish in smaller ethnic markets & shops (ex: chinese, portuguese..) but our big grocery chains don't carry that stuff. just a hint on where to look

Quote:
Are organ meats needed, if I am feeding tripe? And aren't needle-like fish bones.... dangerous?
tripe is not an organ meat so yes, you still need that liver, kidney, etc. as for fish bones they are OK to feed raw (pliable and digestible even if it doesn't look or feel that way to us!) but once cooked the bones should never be fed - unless soft and mushy like with canned fish, i'm thinking salmon and sardines and such... they're like paste)
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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:27 PM
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Where do you get organ meat if there is no butcher in your area? I am looking at this web site http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com but it doesn't seem to have an ordering link or anything....
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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:48 PM
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Thats where I get most of my stuff

Either email them or call them. Ask for Karen or Doug. Only thing is Im not sure if they ship though.

You don't have a Sobeys or Grocery store?
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:52 PM
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while butchers are a great place to shop (look in your yellow pages, you might be surprised), try any ethnic markets or grocery stores, i've always seen at least beef and chicken livers sold in major chains, even walmart has some... or join a raw food co-op, get call any meat-distribution plants or businesses, asking around and doing the ground homework may take some time at first but then after that, it's sooo easy to just stock up every month
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Old November 25th, 2006, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Where do you get organ meat if there is no butcher in your area?
Today while out on another shopping adventure I was shocked to find some of the most discusting organ ( not rogan ) meat there. I had a "buffet" of sorts to pick from.. there was lung, heart ( pig and cow) , kidney and tons of liver. So I picked some up, just take a day and check out your local grocery stores ( I picked these up at a grocery store with no butcher dept.) you just may luck out.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by technodoll View Post
whole raw fish (except wild pacific salmon).
Why not pacific Salmon?
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Old November 25th, 2006, 03:58 PM
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from http://www.phouka.com/dogs/dog_salmon.html

Quote:
Salmon disease is specific to dogs and related canids and is found only in the Pacific Northwest [BC, too?], mostly in northern California and coastal Oregon.

It's an acute and rapidly progressing inflammation of the small intestine and colon that's often fatal, occurring shortly after a dog has fed on infected raw salmon or trout from coastal rivers and streams, or - less often - from hatchery-reared fish in reservoirs.

It's caused by one or both of two rickettsial bacteria, _Neorickettsia helminthoeca_ and Elokomin fluke fever agent. Invertebrate hosts are important vectors of infection, most likely an aquatic snail that's an intermediate host for a fluke. The fluke leaves the snail and penetrates the tissues of salmonid fish, forming cysts. When an infected fish is eaten by a canid, the flukes and released and soon become egg-laying adults. When the rickettsial bacteria causing salmon disease are in the fluke, they rapidly multiply in the canid's lymphatic system and then spread into the blood stream.

Symptoms are mainly a high fever with vomiting progressing to diarrhea and may resemble those of parvo. There is no vaccine. Freezing or proper smoking of the fish will lower infectivity. Treatment includes fluid and electrolyte therapy, blood plasma if necessary, and antibiotics, mainly tetracycline, to combat the rickettsiae.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 04:44 PM
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good to know....good to know!! Thanks Techno!
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Old November 25th, 2006, 08:10 PM
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Well If by grocery store you mean Sam's and WinnDixie, then yes. But I have never seen them carry organ meats. There is one store I haven't been in yet called Volume Meats and Vegetables. I am going to head over there next weekend to see what they carry.

I like to go fishing. Would it be safe for me to just catch fish to give to my pup? Also, my sisters boyfriend and my uncle both hunt. Would it be safe to get my organ meats from them? Or is the risk of contamination too high?


*apologizes for asking newb questions*
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Old November 25th, 2006, 08:12 PM
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Oh, they DO carry liver, but I have read that you can't just feed liver for organ meats, and that too much liver is bad because of toxins?? Because I have also read that liver makes up a large percentage of the organ meat consumed by wild carnivores who eat their prey?

Thanks for your patience everyone.

*wonders who is annoyed at her yet*
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Old November 25th, 2006, 10:48 PM
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twistedangel i hope you wont mind the slight threadjacking but your thread totally has my interest.

i'm a bit leary about feeding raw chicken (especially with bones), how do you go about cleaning them so that u don't have to worry abut salmonella?
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Old November 25th, 2006, 10:50 PM
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Trick is to get the chicken VERY fresh...if there's just a little salmonella, it won't make the dog sick (if the chicken is 2 weeks old, that's another story!!). Dog's intestinal track is built to digest bacteria that we can't digest
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Old November 25th, 2006, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twisted angel
I like to go fishing. Would it be safe for me to just catch fish to give to my pup? Also, my sisters boyfriend and my uncle both hunt. Would it be safe to get my organ meats from them? Or is the risk of contamination too high?
fresh fish! absolutely lucky puppy. just make sure it's from a clean lake or river and that there are NO hooks stuck inside or anything... just scrub off any thick scales and feed whole, fresh or frozen

as for wild game, it's perfectly safe to feed if you first freeze the meat for a few days (why take any chances of inherent parasites). take any bit of unwanted meat and bones from hunted game, if it's free then it will ease your pocketbood and it's a very lean, rich meat.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by lynlyn
i'm a bit leary about feeding raw chicken (especially with bones), how do you go about cleaning them so that u don't have to worry abut salmonella?
if you browse through the posts in the raw feeding section of this forum (you're in it now ), you will find a wealth of resources, links to raw feeding sites with a ton of information on raw feeding: why, how, etc. but i warn you... it's addictive!
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Old November 26th, 2006, 03:38 PM
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Really? THANK YOU.

Now I know for a fact I can get a constant supply of meat and fish. Thanks everyone. You have all been a HUGE help. I am going to go fishing right now and stock up on brim, bass, and catfish.

Lynlyn:
I really don't mind. As long as it gets your questions answered I'm happy.
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Old November 26th, 2006, 04:31 PM
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if you browse through the posts in the raw feeding section of this forum (you're in it now ), you will find a wealth of resources, links to raw feeding sites with a ton of information on raw feeding: why, how, etc. but i warn you... it's addictive!
wow addictive doesn't begin to explain it! i think i may have read every thread in this forum on BARF and i now have total information overload.


twisted angel, thanx for the threadjack
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