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  #31  
Old March 7th, 2004, 04:20 PM
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Melanie,the way you describe it,it sounds like it is a virtual free for all on most wild animals in Australia.Shooting from helicopters etc..
Here in Canada there are very few wild horses left,only in some parts.
Horses are destructive? In what way,they don't eat the native critters,surely there most be room in your vast beautiful country for wild horses
I suppose almost everyone has a gun...at least outside the cities,which they probably do here in Canada to.
I once watched culling of roos,not knowing what they were going to do and I quickly changed channel when they started killing them...it was sad...

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  #32  
Old March 7th, 2004, 04:41 PM
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Off the coast of Nova Scotia (Canada's atlantic province)

There is an island called, Sable Island. It has been restricted access because of the wild horses that live and breed there.

If you're interested, take a peek here:
http://www.greenhorsesociety.com/Beh.../Behaviour.htm
Exerpt:
Although access to the island is restricted - by both location and regulations - the horses are well-known, and are of great interest, historically and scientifically. The Sable Island horses have been featured in several documentaries and numerous books and magazine articles, and they were the subject of an exhibition at the Equine Museum of Japan, Yokohama (1994), and a photography exhibition in New York City (Roberto Dutesco, 2002). They are protected by law from interference by people, and thus live wild and undisturbed.

There are PICTURES and the story behind it!
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  #33  
Old March 7th, 2004, 05:03 PM
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now dont get me wrong, we dont kill everything that moves,but the problem of feral animals here is enormous. this has alot to do with our isolation, our critters are not very tough. and we have very strict licence requirements here for guns, it is very hard to get one and they all must be registered. the reason the horses are destructive is this -horses are hard hooved animals (cows and other hard hooved animal also a prob here due to wide spread erosion) and do alot of damage to soil structure ect, this is especially important for places such as frasier island as it is an island made completly of shifting sands, they can cause wide spread erosion, soil compaction in delicate areas and also compete for food sources with wallibies ect. they also pose threats to humans in that area as it is a small island with a high number of horses and tourists (but i dont really care about the humans). it is also a national park with the only remaining pure bread population of dingos left in australia (and lots of other special critters such as various ground nesting bird species like the little turn who has been desimated since more 4WD activity and the increase in horses), so yes it is quite a delicate ecosystem. erosion may not seem like such a big deal, but when you consider our soil types and lack of soil fertility (we have many thick heavy clays) erosion becomes a massive problem, we cannot afford to pour our soil into the water or have it severely compacted (this inhibits plant growth and organism production). and with the increase of habitat destruction and land clearing, no there is not enough room or food or habitat for wild horses, or other ferals.
and those mongrels that justify kulling roos, just so they can get better crops ahh they drive me wild. roos actually have many neat ways of controling their populations and during our current drought there is no need for it, they stop breeding in drought and their numbers thin naturally.
but luba, there is some fascinating history relting to our horses and other ferals also, they form part of how we got here and who our forefathers were. but still not good to keep them here. but very cool link,it is great when animals fit into the right ecosystem and are protected as they deserve.
but i have a deep respect for all animals, hey its not their fault someone dropped them off here, but i do believe they should be disposed of in the kindest, fastest and most respectful manner possible, shooting effectivly ect. does this, i would hate for them to do more wide spread poisioning, it is slow and sad not to mention the other native animals that are not meant to get it but do. sorry for length, but as you know i have too much to say and get a little passionate about certain things. think globally act locally
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  #34  
Old March 7th, 2004, 05:42 PM
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Luba,thank's for the site,beautiful! I bookmarked it to read it later.
There is not a more beautiful sight than seeing horses in the wild...mind you I say that about wolves and other things too
Melanie,what you are telling me,makes me a little sad for Australia...and it's inhabitants.
I know about the history,how Australia was originally a penal-colony,so the blood-line is not that great(kidding!!!)
We were actually going to immigrate to Australia a long time ago from Sweden,but the Aussies at that time put all the immigrants in camps and the government decided where the immigrants were going(I wish we did that here now!!)so,we chose to go to Canada instead and have never regretted it.
I know Steve Irwin is all for protecting native species,but would he condone killing horses,foxes and roos...
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  #35  
Old March 7th, 2004, 07:22 PM
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well it is all pretty sad, and as an environmental scientist and animal lover it is very hard to deal with, i find i get very angry and then depressed over all of this and more. but then i go out to the bush and just look, it is still very beautiful and part of me. we have many enviro problems here just like anywhere else. it is just due to the delicate nature of many of our ecosystems that sadly cannot cope with the influx of feral animals, feral plants and feral humans. tell me about it, it breaks my heart daily.

oh and australia was originally a beautiful place inhabitied by our aboriginal people. 200 years ago it was invaded by white people and it turned into one big penal colony for the over flow of british and irish ratbags, ahhh, i actually decended from convicts so i have ratbag and murky genetics

oh and we still have a nasty habit of locking up immagrants in detention centers (so bad spelling) that dont have the right 'status'. but im sure we dont lock up the sweeds or anyone with any money, only boat people ect. (extreme sarcasim used in the last sentence)

and steve irwin had better agree to the killing of feral animals, if he didnt his conservation work would be in vain. our greatest conservationist ever is a man called Dr Ian Wamsley (he just doesnt have a telly show). he supports all of these techniques and has even constructed feral proof fences around his conservation areas, he also uses the skins of feral animals to show respect for their bodies, he has some pretty fancy caps made from feral cats, he is often refered to as the cat hat man, it may not be nice to some but he is using the animal skin for a good purpose, why waste it, i find that so disrespectful. but he is my hero, he has brought so many species back from the brink of extinction, yay for him

but before i go and kill myself over the sadness of it all, myself and many other people i know have devoted their life to the environment and the conservation of it and this fills me with great joy, we may just get somewhere after all and if not, at least we went down trying. australia is such a harsh continent i just love it and it is ever fascinating. just remember- THINK GLOBALLY, ACT LOCALLY and you can really make a difference. ps- if you are wondering why my messages are so long, well it takes alot of explaining and i am trying to procrastinate instead of doing wedding duties for the up coming nuptules at the end of week, so just bear with me and maybe i might just go away and do some work
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  #36  
Old March 7th, 2004, 09:22 PM
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Melanie,don't worry,what you write is very interesting and needs explaining.Sorry I forgot about the aboriginals..I just watched the movie the other night,where an unbearably stuffy Englishman took aboriginal children from their parents and three girls walked for miles to get back home to their mom.
Making hats from cats,yeah,it bothers me....but then again I do not live in Australia.
Good Night! I guess you're just getting up,14 hours difference,right?
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  #37  
Old March 7th, 2004, 09:28 PM
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melanie melanie is offline
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so sorry, just dont read my posts, it is actually Dr John Wamsley not ian (me brain is not working so well). oh and you watched rabbit proof fence, that warms my heart so much, just to know people are seeing it. it was a true story and it is amazing what 3 little girls can do when they want to go home (they walked several hundred miles and crossed a desert, following the rabbit fence that has never detered a rabbit in its history), it is so important for our history to be recognised even the not so nice parts. ps the practice of taking kids from aboriginal parents continued until well into the 1960's and is still a major issue here.
yeah we are 14hrs ahead or arouund it i think, it is mid afternoon here, so have wonderful sweet dreams.
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  #38  
Old March 8th, 2004, 07:08 AM
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Melanie,Aboriginies,Indians,Lapps(in Sweden)in just about every country have been treated unfairly and cruel in history,so you are not the only ones.
Although I am not that knowledgable about the Canadian Indian and their proud history,I know by giving them hand-outs and tax-exemptions,we have created a second class citizen,with drinking-problems,high suicide rates etc...
When visiting Alberta I was stunned at the wide-spread absolute hatred towards Indians,but I am not judging anyone,I just know somewhere along the line,we did the Canadian Indians a horrible injustice.
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  #39  
Old March 8th, 2004, 08:05 AM
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amaruq amaruq is offline
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Well to weigh in here!

First off I grew up with a "Hunter"/ farmer I seen enough death and pain to last me 100 life times. I hate it with a passion! If you think animals don't suffer from a hunters hands....I'm here to tell you they do. I have also seen hunting for the heck of hunting. Men going out and "bagging"the big deer only to take the antlers and leave the meat. There is also a problem with Lead shot. If the animal is wounded and gets away they die a slow and painful death from lead poisioning. There is the trade in wild animal parts IE: the bear liver ad paws. They are killed for that and left. Now times there are cubs to feed....they also die slowly.

I watched a show about Austrailia and its problem with feral animals. This again is the hand of man. Don't want kitty...well heck pitch him out the door...don't want puppy...pitch them out the door. The Dingo population is becoming muddied because of the feral dogs getting out of control. Then the mix then kills for the sake of killing giving all a bad name.

The guy that has the cat hat's is nuts. I can't imagine my cat's on some fools head trying to make a disgusting point.

The europeans have this philosophy that it's their way or the highway. They have proved that over and over..killing the original ideas that people had. ie: The native Indians were told they were savages because they lacked the faith in God. The white man used the Indians to gain control of the lands with Booze. Now the Natives are confused in where their place in society is. Manitoba has a large Native population....Our downtown is full is the "Drunk" natives. I have been to Pow Wow's and find them magical. I can truly say that for me...I don't have words to say how wonderful I think it is. By the way, I look native but am not.

The killing or culling of animals and man have to stop. Humans have to realize that they aren't God and shouldn't play the part.
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  #40  
Old March 8th, 2004, 08:56 AM
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I agree Amaruq,although there will never be a perfect world,it should star with respect for ALL of gods creatures.
I am also glad you can see the beauty in the Native Indian and their traditions other than their boozing..not many people feel that way,especially Albertans
When I objected,I was just dismissed with:You're from Sweden,what do you know? Which pi....sed me off!
I read a lot and educate myself before I judge anyone..
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  #41  
Old March 8th, 2004, 02:50 PM
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yes, i am very aware of the atrocities that white man has in the past committed on many an indigenous population worldwide (this is just my opinion so im not directing it at anyone but i dont like to use the word native, here in oz it often implies the concept of the noble savage, i prefer indigenous or aboriginal- aboriginal meaning the original inhabitants or owners). but unfortunatly i can only help the people of my land and only understand the people of my land and their ways. anita, you should look into the people of your land, you may find it most interesting.
and yes i know that not all hunting and farming practices are kind but we have necessities in this life (i have a farming background). but australia is quite possibly a unique case, i totally support the control of feral animals as a necessary conservation tool. apparently an old tale tells(early 1900's) of 2 police finding a farmer dead. they could not find living relatives so let his entire heard of pigs out into the bush and it started there, this would only be applicable to that area but it is quite similar to how most of these animals got here, either stupidity, for food sources or for hunting purposes.
as far as Dr John Wamsley and his wife goes, well they are my heros. his conservation efforts are just amazing and the work they have performed just miraculous. his hats do get alot of attention, he always has someone harassing him, but good on them for believing in their causes and good on him for practicing his beliefs. but what is he to do, dump the dead bodies in the bush just to rot? for thousands of years we have used animal skin for clothing ect. why is this any different? if it were made of leather would he get the same reaction? i doubt it, just because an animal has been domesticated does not make it any more important than a cow or sheep, all animal are equal and should be treated as such. but i do understand your feelings, if it was my dog on his head i probably would be a little uncomfortable with it.
and if we didnt play predator to these feral animal species here in oz well, just imagine the devestation that would be caused, these animal have no predators except for us, so as an animal myself i feel that this is our right action before it gets out of hand. ps have you ever seen the amount of pigs in a litter, they breed like rabbits so it is important to keep on top of it. oh and relating to the dingo pop breeding prob, some states such as western australia have laws that forbid travelers taking an undesexed dog (not all breeds) into the state due to the problem of mixing breeds. and if dingo mixes with GSD or similar you are going to get a big nasty dog out of it. some of the wild dogs you see look just terrifying. remember- THINK GLOBALLY, ACT LOCALLY
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