Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog health - Ask members * If your pet is vomiting-bleeding-diarrhea etc. Vet time!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 12th, 2014, 12:15 PM
briannedawn briannedawn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
Unhappy Dog has been vomiting blood off and on for MONTHS... help, please?

This will be kind of long, sorry:

I'm at my wit's end here. I've spent close to $3000 now and my dog is still suffering.

She started puking the dark coffee ground-looking blood about six months ago. I rushed her in and they did a bunch of tests. X-ray, blood work, and then an ultrasound the next day after the x-ray was "inconclusive". They ruled out any obstructions and diagnosed it as stomach ulcers.

She was treated with omeprazole and sulcrafate. She would seem to get better, and then one day she would puke blood again and back to the vet we would go. Never any new answers. My vet said the only way to "make sure it's an ulcer" would be to do a scope on her. Not only do I not have money left for this, but I don't see the point when it seems it IS certainly an ulcer. The problem I have is WHAT is CAUSING the ulcer?

Obviously something is, and it's something that seems to not be going away. I feed my dog homemade food. She used to eat beef but after this started, she's been switched to chicken. Its a mix of chicken, white potato, eggs, and peas. She also gets a vitamin/mineral supplement, glucosamine (she has patellar luxation), and salmon oil.

After becoming frustrated, I have now sought out second AND third opinions from other vets. The second vet was a holistic vet (I thought, why not?) and she was actually quite wonderful. She treated my dog with a chinese herb mix, as well as keeping her on the sulcrafate. My dog didn't have any vomiting for at least a month and I thought that that was finally it.

Then, this last month has gotten worse. Not only has she vomited blood a couple times (one, dark stuff and two times just bile with flecks of red) but she has started to poop blood! Thick bloody mucus just leaks from her bum and soaks her legs and tail. Obviously, back to the vet. Diagnosed as colitis and treated for it with antibiotics.

The third vet was ridiculous. Completely useless and basically just stole another $110 from me.

Please, can anybody give me some kind of answers? Or reflect on what this could be? I don't know what to do anymore. I don't know how to figure out what could be causing this! And I feel like she won't get better until I find the underlying cause, but my vets ALL seem unable to figure it out. Thoughts, advice, anyone?

She is an almost 4-year-old Italian Greyhound.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 12th, 2014, 12:51 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 50,103
Is there a veterinary school near you? Teaching hospitals associated with veterinary schools see a lot of hard-to-diagnose cases. Because they see so many out-of-the-ordinary patients, they can often diagnose things that regular vets don't ever see and therefore don't recognize.

The down side is that they can be fairly pricey, but if you get an answer and a treatment, you won't be spending any more money on fruitless vet visits.

We had a dog that was sick for a year before we tried the VTH at the Univ of MN. They diagnosed inflammatory bowel disease, got him on a course of treatment that knocked the disease back far enough that we could treat it through diet. Had we continued going to general practice vets, Evan wouldn't have lasted another month. So we felt it was well worth the money we spent there.
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 12th, 2014, 08:42 PM
Reg's Avatar
Reg Reg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Posts: 152
Hello briannedawn:

Welcome to the forum and hopefully you will get some information that will be of value to you.
Reading over your post reminds me strongly of some of the problems I'm having with one of our cats. It could possibly be very similar in nature for you.
If I were you, I would do some research into food allergies and food intolerances. This has the appearance of being a food intolerance - either a protein problem or a carbohydrate issue.
I would be taking it up with your alternative vet or your allopathic vet - whichever one you feel comfortable with. I would think that a menu change could rectify the problem.
Our cat was having the same sort of issues with the bloody stool plus lots of gas - we could hear her all over the house when she went to the litter box.
She has had a complete food change recently eliminating anything containing poultry protein, and this seemed to be her problem. I'm not saying it is your problem, but it's worth looking into.
I have been in and out of the vet's office over a period of years with this problem and it was just recently with a new vet who suggested the diet change before doing any scope work or any other procedure.
It appears that food intolerances is one issue that is missed by the vets quite often, and they start treating for IBD.
Hope this helps. Keep us posted.
Hazelrunpack's suggestion of a veterinary school teaching hospital is an excellent one to follow up on. Speak to your vet to get some idea of costs.
My vet says that they are relatively expensive when I questioned about an MRI for instance.
__________________
Animals are such agreeable Friends.
They ask no Questions. They pass no Criticisms.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 13th, 2014, 12:17 AM
briannedawn briannedawn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
Thanks for the replies. I googled around and unfortunately didn't find any vet colleges near me.

The food allergies would make sense. Some of her other symptoms (though I can never tell if it's related) are dry flaky skin and a dull coat. Over a year ago, she also had weird issues with her ears. They'd get very dry and the tips would be black and crack and bleed (a lot!). The only thing that ever fixed it was me putting coconut oil on every day. But she's had skin problems for years. Could an allergy build up to affect the stomach?

Issue is that she was on kibble (innova evo) before and when the skin problems started, I switched her to the homemade diet.

Originally it was lean beef, sweet potato, mixed vegetables (frozen, puréed), and eggs. I then switched her to the chicken diet. I even fed her ostrich (!) between those to try and rule out allergies. The diet change helped her skin a bit. Her hair grew back where she was balding. But it's still very dry and dull.

But because she's tried so many proteins, I don't know what I could switch to! She doesn't like fish. And I can't afford a diet of lamb or some other expensive meat.

I know a good next step would be allergy tests. But that's more money, and will possibly show no answers again... But I worry everyday that something is going undiagnosed that could be harming her more and more each day. It's incredibly stressful.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 13th, 2014, 09:02 AM
Marty11's Avatar
Marty11 Marty11 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: East Gwillimbury, ON
Posts: 1,138
I am not sure if vomiting blood is allergy related. But to give you my story briefly that my Boston has been battling allergies for 7 years. I was very hesitant to feed raw because of the mixed opinions. I finally did, at first it was Stella and Chewys but I found that rather expensive. I found a local butcher that grinds raw meat and bones and veggies for 3.50 a lb and I get 4 meals out of it. His meat is local, antibiotic and hormone free. I am even buying chicken (which I was told to cut out in her diet). She is still somewhat itchy (I feel its an autoimmune problem) but her coat has come back as she was getting bald spots and it's shiny and she absolutely loves her food. I do add a supplement called Flora4. I would get another Vet opinion too.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 13th, 2014, 03:42 PM
Reg's Avatar
Reg Reg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Posts: 152
Hello briannedawn:

I can understand your problem with stress factor - we're going through the same thing with Missy. It appeared at one point that we might have to part with her. However, in the past couple of weeks, it appears that she might be coming out of it. At least she seems to be more back to her normal old self. We go through some sort of "ritual" with her about twice a year with runny stools and occasional vomiting.

We have since put it down to the poultry protein in the kibbles that are/were causing a lot of the issues. We used to give her the odd kibble meal, and it's really a no-no with her. She has been mainly on raw food all her life since we started having issues with her at the tender age of about one year.

There is a food product on the market that can be picked up at the vet's and at some pet food suppliers that is Hypoallergenic which our vet strongly suggested I put Missy on. From what I understand they have done something to the product that masks the proteins or carbohydrates that are causing the problems with the animals.

I personally did not do this due to the fact that I had discussions with other veterinarian people over the years and one of their main concerns was adverse reactions to poultry protein. And years ago Missy literally refused to eat chicken and I switched her to lamb, beef, and pork. And a year ago I went back to making a turkey meal and the problem flared up again last August.

Also, we're in the same boat as you are. We are at least 8 or 9 hours away from the nearest vet university at Guelph, Ontario. We are not aware of any other facilities in Ontario.

From what I understand, food intolerance can be more of an internal problem re diarhea, throwups, bloody stools, and so on. Allergies are more apt to rear their ugly heads as a skin problem of some sort - severe itching, licking at their paws, severe head shaking possibly from ear infections - just to name a few.

I think under certain circumstances that an animal could have symptoms of either one or both at the same time.

One other thing that you might want to look into which will help the stomach issue and the diarhea, is Slippery Elm Bark powder. Pick up a bit of it in bulk at a health food store and make up a slurry. This may help with the stomach issue. It did with Missy.

She is now back strictly on raw food - no kibble at all - and absolutely no poultry protein.
__________________
Animals are such agreeable Friends.
They ask no Questions. They pass no Criticisms.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 13th, 2014, 09:39 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: California, usa
Posts: 922
If there really are ulcers, those are typically caused by bacteria in the stomach, like H. Pylori. What antibiotics were given, and have they helped at all? Clostridium infections can cause blood too - was a GI Panel, testing for things like clostridium ever done (it's a pretty expensive test). Probiotics are a must, as well as other gut support, like the slipperly elm mentioned, l-glutamine, etc.

Coat quality can be caused by a lot of things, from not absorbing ingredients, to having an unbalanced diet.

The only way to know for sure what is going on in the gut is with an endoscopy/colonscopy, which is pretty expensive, and has to be done by an internal medicine vet. If might be able to find one here by looking under the specialty SIAM: http://www.acvim.org/PetOwners/FindaSpecialist.aspx

My dog is allergic to potatoes and peas. She can't eat chicken or fish, and is on a no beef trial right now. I feed cooked lamb (Costco has the best price). You need to pick one protein, and one carb/fiber source. I haven't picked them up yet, but the vet wants me to try steamed turnips of all things. Green beans have worked well for my dogs that aren't allergic to peanuts. But all the dietary changes alone won't help if it's an infection or inflammatory bowel disease and medications are needed.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 13th, 2014, 09:42 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: California, usa
Posts: 922
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reg View Post
There is a food product on the market that can be picked up at the vet's and at some pet food suppliers that is Hypoallergenic which our vet strongly suggested I put Missy on. From what I understand they have done something to the product that masks the proteins or carbohydrates that are causing the problems with the animals.
They hydrolyze the meat, so that the meat proteins are supposedly not able to cause an allergy. However, they don't change the other ingredients. BUT, for some dogs, these are lifesavers. I would rather homecook if possible though.

Quote:
From what I understand, food intolerance can be more of an internal problem re diarhea, throwups, bloody stools, and so on. Allergies are more apt to rear their ugly heads as a skin problem of some sort - severe itching, licking at their paws, severe head shaking possibly from ear infections - just to name a few.

I think under certain circumstances that an animal could have symptoms of either one or both at the same time.
I think that allergies and intolerances can show the same symptoms.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 15th, 2014, 12:13 PM
briannedawn briannedawn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
Thanks everyone. She's had tons of blood work done so I would assume testing for bacteria would've been in there too. I did even ask my vet once if she should be on a course of antibiotics for this (read that online) and she that yes, that could be one option. She never did do the antibiotics until she pooped blood and then she went on some but that was for the diagnosis of colitis.

This Wednesday I have an appointment at another new vet. I've been referred to them by about six different people now. The guy I'm seeing is young (which I like since he knows modern treatments well) and endoscopy is one of his specialties. My normal vet quoted me $3000+ for the endoscopy! This vet quoted 600-1200 and that's including blood work and a possible biopsy that they'd take from her tummy.

I'm terrified for her to have to go under anesthesia, especially because she's so stressed and scared all the time. But I've found most vets are good if I tell them and they've let me stay in the room while they put her under, or at least give her a relaxing drug. So I'm hoping for the best. Mostly I'm hoping for some answers finally!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 15th, 2014, 12:40 PM
Reg's Avatar
Reg Reg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Posts: 152
Hello briannedawn:

Just read your most recent post and have a little suggestion that you might find beneficial.

You mentioned about the dog already being stressed and scared all the time, and you also mentioned about seeing a new vet this coming week.

A product that we have found invaluable when it comes to stress levels in our cats, and also in people, and some have even used it for horses, is a product called "Rescue Remedy" and it's a flower essence by Bach.

We use it in our cats' water dish and also if there is any sign of stress, we've sprayed it onto their paws, or rubbed it on their ears.

With a dog, you could put a couple of drops into their mouths.

The product comes in spray form and also in liquid form and we use either one. Once upon a time when we had a health food store, we used to sell a lot of it to people who were under stress and they swore by it.

And of course, so do we.

You would find that your animal should start to be less agitated and less stressful within a matter of a couple of minutes. It basically takes the sharp edge off the stress. I find for long term, just add about 5 or 6 drops to her drinking water daily and this way she will be getting the protocol all day and it will have no affect on any drugs or medications that she may be put on.

Check with this new vet for his opinion of maybe trying a food change.

Our local vet quoted us around the ballpark of $1000 for any scoping work, but we would have to go to another vet's office about 2 to 3 hours away from where we live. She also asked for a diet change to start, for about 2 to 3 months, and then see about doing the scope, if necessary.
__________________
Animals are such agreeable Friends.
They ask no Questions. They pass no Criticisms.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old June 15th, 2014, 06:42 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 50,103
Just another thought--have they ruled out Addison's disease?
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old June 15th, 2014, 11:43 PM
Dog Dancer's Avatar
Dog Dancer Dog Dancer is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,605
Sorry I have nothing to offer here other than my prayers that things work out well for you and your pup. Hopefully you'll get the answers you are looking for and your pup will be on the road to recovery.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old June 17th, 2014, 05:59 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: California, usa
Posts: 922
They have a Rescue Remedy for pets that is alcohol free - I wouldn't use the human version in a dog with digestive issues.


Good luck at the appointment!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blood, dog, puke, vomiting

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:37 AM.