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Old January 3rd, 2013, 10:08 AM
Jull Jull is offline
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Question Depressed/Stressed dog due to new puppy

A few weeks ago my partner and I bought a puppy (cheweenie) as a companion for our 1 1/2 year old dog (yorki/pom mix) both of us work and even though we try to be home as much as possible, we didn't wanted him to be lonely.

We have been keeping them separately for now, and then supervise playtime; however we have noted our dog has been very stressed since the new addition, there has been days where he wont eat and just lays in his bed, he wont even accept a treat! other times he will just sit on the couch with his back towards us and ignore us, or just sleep all the time.

I do understand they are not going to be best buddies right away; however the last couple days we have also noted that even though they can play for a few minutes together the puppy obviously can be a bit rough at times, and makes the older dog cry. And now, when my older dog has had enough from him he hides under the couch, where he can barely fit, and wont come out until we get him; he does have his "safe place" away from puppy, but now he just does that.

I love them both so much, but it does break my heart to see my little guy so sad and stressed, my partner has decided that we should find a new home home for the puppy as it is not working out, I am so heart broken and feel like a terrible person for doing that, so I don't know what to do, should we just give it more time?

Now, I know friends have suggested to take them out for walks, however, where I live the temperature is very cold (-20 to -40 degrees) so going for walks is not much of an option for them right now, they can barely go out for a pee.

I just want to do what is best for both of them, but now I am a little depressed too
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:16 PM
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Dog Dancer Dog Dancer is offline
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Sorry to hear you're having trouble integrating the new puppy. I think you may need a bit more time to be honest. What part of Canada are you from? Is it always too cold to go outside with them, because I have to agree that walking them together would be good for them. It's very important your older dog (who is not old at all...) gets some quality time to still feel important, and individual play time as well. But letting them play together and rewarding each for good play will help. I may be in your shoes in a few more weeks when we bring two new pups into our house to join our senior doggy.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 10:16 PM
Jull Jull is offline
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I live in SK, so right now it is pretty cold for them, when they go out they just go fast - take care of business and ran back in.

We actually have a good person that would take him andgive him a very good home if it comes down to it... but we have a bit of time before any decisions are made, it is still sad though... today my older guy wouldnt eat untill my boy friend sat down by his side
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Old January 4th, 2013, 06:58 AM
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Marty11 Marty11 is offline
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Hi Jull, I can't give you an anwer on this one. But I experienced a similar situation. I brought a puppy home to my not so old terrier. To me it seemed that he was going to hurt her, I was in tears..... I talked to my dog trainer about it. My older terrier was on a leash with no handle so I could correct very quickly. And walking together helped as well. The puppy was always crated when I couldn't supervise. I was very upset, I thought two could be company.....After several weeks of constant training they became inseperable. Hang in there and get good advice from a trainer. Your dog is in hiding, definately a bit different. What about a 3rd party dog to come and play to distract? Lots of treats to the older dog.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 08:52 AM
Jull Jull is offline
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Yes we have been giving him lots of attention and treats, although sometimes he just wont take them. Usually after being around the puppy for a little bit he will ask us to go to bed, because he knows that bed time means is just him and puppy stays on his crate very sweet.

We have another Yorkie in the family and he adores him, he has come to stay at home with us before too and he was perfectly fine with it, even though he is an older dog and did nip on him a few times for being annoying. Someone told me that I should off gotten him a female as terriers live better together with opposites.

I guess the one things that does worry me is him hiding - I can see him being annoyed and going up stairs where the little one can't reach him - but hiding under the furniture and refusing to come out is what saddens me.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 10:18 PM
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tenderfoot tenderfoot is offline
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I think the older Pom x doesn't like or understand the energy of the pup. Not all dogs like puppies. He is overwhelmed and doesn't feel you protecting him from the pup so he is out of sorts. He isn't comfortable in his own home right now.

I would show the older dog that you have his back and you are willing to teach the pup how to be gentle, and to leave the older dog alone when it is appropriate. I would do a lot of obedience with both of them. The pup needs to learn and the older dog needs to feel valued and connected. Walking them together is great but obviously not a good answer right now. But you can certainly have them on leashes in the house and walk around with them. It is also a good opportunity to show the older dog that you are in control of the pup. So if the pup starts to go after the older dog (even in play) you are ready to stop him.

New relationships can take time and usually do work out for the best. Try not to let the older dog escape quite so much, he needs to learn to face the music and experience the pup - if he is always avoiding then this will take much longer.

You might try feeding him in his crate for a while until things settle down.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 01:40 PM
Jull Jull is offline
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We do make sure he knows he is still number 1, we do some together play time and individual too, when my oldest goes to his bed I know that is his alone time from everyone not just puppy so we make sure he knows we wont let anyone bother him. I'm sure he knows his mommy has his back

I think we maybe should have waited a little more time to bring another member to the family , another thing I didint mention on my post is that he has always had like anxiety attacs, or something - only happens when he is under any kind of stress - so we have definitely been keeping a very close eye on him; he has had tests done, so we know is not any kind of health or respiratory plomems, just anxiety.

If it was up to me I would have my house completely full with furry friends
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Old January 8th, 2013, 10:46 PM
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tenderfoot tenderfoot is offline
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I must have misunderstood, I thought you had said it had all happened since you brought the pup home, and that he was fine with the other Yorkie you brought home. So the timing really isn't a factor because he liked the other dog in your home.
Since he knows he is safe with you and you will protect him from the pup, then you need to look at other reasons he is not eating, hiding and acting depressed. However if you do think it is the addition of the pup, then what is it about the pup that bothers him? Energy? Pestering him too much? Getting too much of your attention? Not backing off when asked?
When you figure it out then decide how you can help. Typically when dogs are out of sorts it helps to create more structure in the environment. This requires more engagement, rules and boundaries, and play.
Dogs breathe easier when someone else is in charge.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 09:08 AM
Jull Jull is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderfoot View Post
Since he knows he is safe with you and you will protect him from the pup, then you need to look at other reasons he is not eating, hiding and acting depressed. However if you do think it is the addition of the pup, then what is it about the pup that bothers him? Energy? Pestering him too much? Getting too much of your attention? Not backing off when asked?
It would seem to me that just doesn't like that there is another dog in the house, I know he loves to play with other dogs that we have in the family, but an the end of the day they go home and don't live with us, I don't know how much age would matter to them, but all the dogs in the family are much older than him as well.

Yesterday I was sitting on the floor to say hi and play with them, and he wouldn't let the puppy come close to me, he is not aggressive at all, but he just stood in front on puppy at all times and not let him come to me.

We have been running a bit of tight ship lately, for both dogs, with the routine and rules for both. How I wish they could speak, so my little guy could tell me what is wrong, "maybe you just shouldn't have assumed I wanted company" he would probably say to us! I do talk to him, I believe he does understand me, and we talk for hours, and I tell him how much I adore him, and how my day went, in fact every day when I leave for work I kiss them and say I love you

I always had multiple pets when growing up, and never really noted any problems like this, it has been over a month and things just aren't really getting better, which breaks my heart, because my boy friend really thinks is better if we find puppy a new loving home - Bestia, our oldest, is his baby too, and I can see he is just not happy with the situation, I also see that he likes puppy, but I don't see a connection between them, you know what I mean? puppy does adore him though and follows him everywhere...but I just don't see any emotional bond there... and it just makes things harder but maybe he is just intentionally trying not to get too attached to him yet.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 09:58 AM
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tenderfoot tenderfoot is offline
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So lets frame this picture differently.

You have a young child whom you lavish attention on, spend hours with the child simply adoring it and making sure he knows that all of his needs are your priority, he feels like the center of the universe in your home. He enjoys his friends when they come to play, but always looks forward to time when its just you and him.

You decide to have another child and suddenly the older child is acting strange. You try to help them both feel happy in your home. But your older child is pouty for hours at a time, and upset when the other child tries to be with you. Your child is refusing to eat, doesn't even want to be in the same room as the newbie. So you try even harder to help your older child feel special but he just isn't having it.

I am going to let you sit with this and see what answer you find....
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Old January 10th, 2013, 11:26 AM
Jull Jull is offline
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So lets frame this picture differently.

You have a young child whom you lavish attention on, spend hours with the child simply adoring it and making sure he knows that all of his needs are your priority, he feels like the center of the universe in your home. He enjoys his friends when they come to play, but always looks forward to time when its just you and him.

You decide to have another child and suddenly the older child is acting strange. You try to help them both feel happy in your home. But your older child is pouty for hours at a time, and upset when the other child tries to be with you. Your child is refusing to eat, doesn't even want to be in the same room as the newbie. So you try even harder to help your older child feel special but he just isn't having it.
Lol I know... dont judge me , he is a very special little guy in my life but that doesn't mean I dont spoil the new puppy as well I spoil all furry kids in my life.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 12:24 PM
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tenderfoot tenderfoot is offline
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Its NOT about spoiling them even more, or spoiling them equally.

It's about changing WHAT you are doing, because what you are doing right now is not working for either dog. You have made the DOGS the rockstars in your life and they are supposed to be the groupies - YOU are the rockstar.
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Old January 10th, 2013, 02:14 PM
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Dog Dancer Dog Dancer is offline
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Jull, I don't think tenderfoot is judging you, just helping you. She is right on with her advice. I'm reading all this closely myself as we are getting two new puppies in a few weeks and I'm sure my old girl will be equally pouty (but she doesn't fit under the furniture - and she's a lab so giving up food is unlikely).
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Old January 14th, 2013, 09:01 AM
Jull Jull is offline
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Originally Posted by Dog Dancer View Post
Jull, I don't think tenderfoot is judging you, just helping you. She is right on with her advice. I'm reading all this closely myself as we are getting two new puppies in a few weeks and I'm sure my old girl will be equally pouty (but she doesn't fit under the furniture - and she's a lab so giving up food is unlikely).
Maybe it wont be too bad for your girl, since you are getting 2 pups, they will keep busy and play together, so they may not annoy her too much.. I think?
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Old January 24th, 2013, 02:54 PM
doggirl doggirl is offline
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First, this is not a straightforward situation and nobody, not even an animal behaviourist, can diagnose or even assess this situation from these posts on a forum.

There is a very significant confounding factor of an anxiety disorder-type history in the 1.5yo dog which has a huge influence (if not the sole influence) in this situation.

Unfortunately you're at that middle ground where turning to a behaviourist is not quite sufficient - you may be that owner that needs to look at pharmacological support for the anxious dog. This does NOT replace training or behaviour modification. It is not "drugging the dog into stupidity". The same way if you have diabetes, insulin fixes that physiological imbalance - these drugs are designed to fix neurotransmitter imbalances. They assist a dog that cannot control their anxiety like most dogs, so it is not a crutch to use them but you could make the argument of how humane is it to not give the dog access to a drug that will alleviate the anxiety they're living with.

You're also not at the right spot just going to a vet. I don't believe trainers should be dispensing veterinary advice nor veterinarians acting as behaviourists (I've taken the same course that the vet students get at the vet college here, doing a BSc). Even Karen Overall has been outspoken about the fact that she hears as much misinformation on training & behaviour from vets as she does from the dog owning public at large. A lot of vets are still very behind the times and focus on pack theory (largely disproven as it was used in training for years) and "dominance". A vet is who you should be consulting with the older dog, but you really need a behaviourist.

If the older dog is stressed, you could run into continued problems if you force him to be around the trigger (if that's the puppy). Do make sure if he shows you signs he's anxious, you allow him retreat. You will make the anxiety worse and really exacorbate the problem by allowing him to create a negative association with the puppy. You need to be focusing on classical conditioning right now, not operant methods.
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