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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:18 PM
Foster Guy Foster Guy is offline
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Lhasa Apso attacks puppies at dog run

Hi,

My friend has 2 Lhasa Apsos - one female and one male.
The male is the trouble maker.
He's maybe 4 or 5.
He always seems to attack puppies or young dogs.
He's ok with small dogs, big dogs, whatever, generally.
It seems to be the young factor.
My friend loves the dog run and doesn't want to stop coming.
Any suggestions for how I can help her train him?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old September 17th, 2012, 05:18 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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My only suggestion is not to go to the dogpark.
If this little guy is causing trouble and attacking other dogs, chances are a bigger dog is going to grab him and shake the crap out of him.
Dogs feed off of other dogs. It can cause other dogs to attack the one being attacked.
So there will be blood shed if this is not under control. It could result in a tragic ending.

Does the dog attack immediately or does the dog see other dogs playing and then attack? What are the triggers to these attacks? Has he caused injury to other dogs? What does the owner do when his dog attacks others?

Can you answer any of these questions? If so, then maybe we can provide more insight on what is happening, why it's happening and from there perhaps provide some tips.
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  #3  
Old September 17th, 2012, 05:47 PM
Foster Guy Foster Guy is offline
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Well, she's hoping she can work on it because it's the only dogrun around and they need the exercise.
I will look to see how it starts next time.
Whne it happens, she or someone gets a hold of him and puts him on a leash, or leaves.
They are all friends there, so there is more wiggle room perhaps here.
I think there can be a little bite/blood on occassion, not always.
And yes, others tend to get into it because of him.
What do you think is the reason for targeting younger/puppies?
Somehow, he is ok with bigger dogs. Doesn't act the same way.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 05:55 PM
Digston Digston is offline
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Some dogs just really seem to hate puppies. I've heard many people say this about their dogs, and I've experienced it with one of my own dogs (He doesn't instantly attack them, he just has a lower tolerence for puppy antics).

Most responsible thing to do is leash the misbehaving pooch. My dog that has low tolerence for puppies also HATES boxers and english bulldogs. I had to start looking way ahead to see if there were either of those breeds coming and leash my dog if there was. Now, after quite a bit of corrective training, I can leave my dog offleash around those 2 breeds and feel confident that he will ignore them.

My tactic for training my dog is just as I said. We went to the dog park, he was allowed offleash until I could see one of his hated breeds coming. He was then leashed. If he approached them too hastily or I could see him tensing and preparing to attack he was corrected. I used a pinch collar on him because I found it much more effective. Every dog is different though, and while I use a pinch on my one dog I would never use it on my other (He's a very sensitive fellow and only needs vocal or light corrective actions). If you decide to use a training aid like a pinch or choke collar PLEASE learn to use it PROPERLY. So many people are unaware that there is a right way and numerous wrong ways!

It will take patience and determination. If your friend isn't willing to put in the amount of work that this will require then I would agree with BenMax 100%. Don't take the dogs to an off leash anymore.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 06:28 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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I have 5 dogs and 1 foster dog and none of mine can go to a dog park only because 5 of them are highly reactive to other dogs. All my dogs are sterilzed but there are dominent issues with each (except for one who is an absolute angel except he is a target for other dogs based on his submissive nature).
My husband is a certified dog trainer and I have been training dogs for 19 years but not certified. That being said, I have alot of knowledge and many rescues ask for help (which is why I have dog #6).
That being said, a handler must always be in control of their dogs and their dogs actions. If you cannot answer any of the above questions I asked, then you should not be allowing your dog free in the park with others. Friends are friends until a vet bill ensues. Trust me.

What your friend can do is seek out a dog evaluator to find out what is going on with your dog. A behaviouralist can also be looked into, but I would start with an evaluator as it is less expensive. However, if the evaluator finds something that a behaviouralist can add insight to, then I would seek this out.

It is so difficult to give advice if we cannot actually see the behaviour. Indeed it can be a case of intolerance for puppies, but regardless, attacking is simply not acceptable. These puppies will get big and something can happen to this little guy in the future. Funny - people say dogs do not have a memory...I beg to differ.

Perhaps your friend can enroll in basic obedience classes. This will help considerably.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 06:31 PM
Foster Guy Foster Guy is offline
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Makes sense. I'm going to tell her and help her. We'll see if that kind of approach does the trick in his case.

Thanks
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Old September 17th, 2012, 06:33 PM
Foster Guy Foster Guy is offline
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Well, he doesn't always do it, and he doesn't always bite.
I will keep an eye on him and try the method Digston is suggesting.
As I said, there is more wiggle room here because everyone knows the dog and the problem and helps out.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 06:49 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Does the dog react to voice or touch?
When someone intervenes, how do they do it?

Your friend should be the one by the way doing the intervention. It is the handlers responsibility and not others. By others doing it, it does not teach him who is in control which should always be the main handler.

He sounds like a dog parks worst nightmare. When I had dogs that could go to the DP (either my rott or my GSD), if I ever saw an unruly dog, I usually left with my dogs because you can never 100 percent say you always have control. It is 'normal' pack mentality for dogs to collectively attack an already attacked dog. It's ugly and it can be very disasterous.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 06:53 PM
Foster Guy Foster Guy is offline
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The dog does react. He's certainly not a nightmare. And usually there aren't very young or puppies there. And she knows to keep an eye out and leash him now. She's willing to do the work. She just asked if I could help her out. Also, the dog doesn't take her seriously enough, and does with me, so I have to work on that with him and her too.
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  #10  
Old September 17th, 2012, 08:27 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foster Guy View Post
Hi,

My friend has 2 Lhasa Apsos - one female and one male.
The male is the trouble maker.
He's maybe 4 or 5.
He always seems to attack puppies or young dogs.
He's ok with small dogs, big dogs, whatever, generally.
It seems to be the young factor.
My friend loves the dog run and doesn't want to stop coming.
Any suggestions for how I can help her train him?

Thanks
I think it very irresponsible to bring a dog to a dog run knowing it will attack puppies. The dog need to be trained before being allowed around other dogs.
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Old September 17th, 2012, 11:14 PM
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tenderfoot tenderfoot is offline
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Better to find a group of dogs (without puppies) who he knows and likes to play with. If these people are all friends maybe they can work something out.

But to say it only happens occasionally and there can be bites or blood involved, is rather like saying my kid can sorta drive but occasionally there is an accident on sometimes there is blood and injuries. So do you keep giving the kid the keys to the car? Nope.

His respect for his person needs work, and she needs to find a good trainer to help her.

Is is very real that some dogs don't like puppies and never will. You probably don't like everyone you meet. Hopefully you are still polite to them. This dog needs to learn that he doesn't have to like everyone but he does need to have good manners.

One of the very real problems with this situation is that he is being allowed to bully puppies and not only can he really hurt one but he is also setting them on the road to fear and possible future aggression down the road. It becomes a terrible cycle which can be stopped with good training, management and being a responsible dog person.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 09:38 AM
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Rgeurts Rgeurts is offline
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I would have to agree that it is very irresponsible to allow a dog that has been known to attack others, in the dog park. This is the very reason mine do not go to a dog park. And they DO remember. Thorin was attacked by Boxers when he was a pup, on more than one occassion. We stopped taking him for his own safety, but he never forgot and hated Boxers to the end.

I think it's great that you're trying to help her. But I also think it's very irresponsible that she continues to take this dog to the park where he can injury someone elses beloved pet. There are people out there who will insist that he be put down if he causes serious injury. So for her dogs sake, and the sake of others, please do not take him back until she has gotten some professional help.
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  #13  
Old September 18th, 2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Better to find a group of dogs (without puppies) who he knows and likes to play with. If these people are all friends maybe they can work something out.

But to say it only happens occasionally and there can be bites or blood involved, is rather like saying my kid can sorta drive but occasionally there is an accident on sometimes there is blood and injuries. So do you keep giving the kid the keys to the car? Nope.

His respect for his person needs work, and she needs to find a good trainer to help her.

Is is very real that some dogs don't like puppies and never will. You probably don't like everyone you meet. Hopefully you are still polite to them. This dog needs to learn that he doesn't have to like everyone but he does need to have good manners.

One of the very real problems with this situation is that he is being allowed to bully puppies and not only can he really hurt one but he is also setting them on the road to fear and possible future aggression down the road. It becomes a terrible cycle which can be stopped with good training, management and being a responsible dog person.
+1 BIG TIME

This dog should immediately stop going to this dog run, imo, your friend is rolling the dice in a silly way I'm afraid. It seems highly likely that one day his dog will seriously harm another dog....which in some states/provinces means the offending dog will be put to death. simple as that.

If this were my dog I would try to group obedience train it with other dogs from a referred dog trainer with experience with aggression from someone you trust. The referred part is the most important part of this sentence

and if this did not work, my dog would never see that dog run again.

Play dates with larger dogs as per tenderfoot's suggestion is an awesome idea in the short term.
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