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Old August 18th, 2012, 07:31 AM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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Cat slight cholesterol

So my cat Phoebe has a bit of cholesterol apparently. She was suffering from a tummy ache but the symptoms first showed up as limping from her right back leg. I at first thought she had hurt herself jumping from a high place or that the horse play with my cats had gotten out of hand early in the morning.

I rushed to the vets and they did x-rays, blood tests ect. The x-rays revealed that she was constipated (colon still normal size) but there were also many pockets of gas that could have caused the pain. She has taken a bit of lactulose each day since and seems better. However the vet told me her cholesterol was just a bit higher than it should be. The number which was just a bit over 9 did not mean much to me and I had a hard time understanding the implications. However her symptoms apparently did not warrant me bringing her in for further tests immediately. The shaved her neck, on both sides. I think they started on one side for the blood tests and for some reason shaved the other side. I wasn't aware they took blood in the neck.

The vet said she would be sicker if it was a pancreas issue. So when will I know to go back. She is back to normal now however lately she refuses to eat with the boys for some reason. She would prefer to starve then eat near them. I have to bring her food to her. I have one cat Tommy who will eat his food then push her aside and eat hers and Nikes if there is left over. He always eats till he vomits so I have started throwing out the leftovers. I think this may be why she won't eat with them anymore.
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Old August 18th, 2012, 09:52 AM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
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Originally Posted by kittiesandbirds View Post
So my cat Phoebe has a bit of cholesterol apparently. She was suffering from a tummy ache but the symptoms first showed up as limping from her right back leg. I at first thought she had hurt herself jumping from a high place or that the horse play with my cats had gotten out of hand early in the morning.

I rushed to the vets and they did x-rays, blood tests ect. The x-rays revealed that she was constipated (colon still normal size) but there were also many pockets of gas that could have caused the pain. She has taken a bit of lactulose each day since and seems better. However the vet told me her cholesterol was just a bit higher than it should be. The number which was just a bit over 9 did not mean much to me and I had a hard time understanding the implications. However her symptoms apparently did not warrant me bringing her in for further tests immediately. The shaved her neck, on both sides. I think they started on one side for the blood tests and for some reason shaved the other side. I wasn't aware they took blood in the neck.

The vet said she would be sicker if it was a pancreas issue. So when will I know to go back. She is back to normal now however lately she refuses to eat with the boys for some reason. She would prefer to starve then eat near them. I have to bring her food to her. I have one cat Tommy who will eat his food then push her aside and eat hers and Nikes if there is left over. He always eats till he vomits so I have started throwing out the leftovers. I think this may be why she won't eat with them anymore.
Is Phoebe eating OK when you bring her the food? How about water , is she refusing water too? I would made sure she is drinking water. did the vet put your cat on a special diet for her cholesterol? If she is an outside cat maybe she has to cut back on how many mice she eat.
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Old August 18th, 2012, 05:37 PM
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What are you feeding your cat?
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Old August 19th, 2012, 04:50 PM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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She is now eating Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal. She used to eat Wiskas and Fancy Feast from Purina. I tried all foods and these are the two things they liked. Now they can't have this anymore. I have to give her lactulose every day now because her bowels were not moving. I forgot to say usually she was drinking ok but the day I rushed her to the vets she would not drink. Now since a couple of days of lactulose she is walking much better and acting more normal.
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Old August 19th, 2012, 04:59 PM
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Kibble or canned?

I would say your biggest problem is her diet. Change to a high quality, human grade meat and you will find a world of difference in your cat. Check the ingredients in the food you are feeding and ask yourself should a CARNIVORE be eating this?

Here is a great link:

http://www.catinfo.org/

My favourite food is Nature's Variety, Instinct canned,

Weruva, Wellness grain free, GO! are all good foods also.

Cholesterol in cats can be high after they eat and an accurate blood reading for it should be done after a fast.
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Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

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Old August 19th, 2012, 05:03 PM
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Our Mr Miyagi had an issue with constipation a couple years back (or so). We've had really good success with feeding only canned food (Natural Balance Duck and Green Pea - he doesn't seem to tolerate any others). He's also on 5 mg of cisapride per day (it just helps keep things moving along). The vet has suggested we try and wean him off of it, but given we have two cats, it's sometimes difficult to tell who is doing what in the box There is no harm in having it, so we'll just keep on it
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Old August 19th, 2012, 07:11 PM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Kibble or canned?

I would say your biggest problem is her diet. Change to a high quality, human grade meat and you will find a world of difference in your cat. Check the ingredients in the food you are feeding and ask yourself should a CARNIVORE be eating this?

Here is a great link:

http://www.catinfo.org/

My favourite food is Nature's Variety, Instinct canned,

Weruva, Wellness grain free, GO! are all good foods also.

Cholesterol in cats can be high after they eat and an accurate blood reading for it should be done after a fast.
She had just eaten before going to the vet. I had to bring the food to the sofa but she did eat. I am glad you told me about the higher reading because it was apparently just a touch too high. I will look into those foods. I started giving her a can of tuna each day. I too thought it may have been a problem that there are not so many animal proteins in their food. Here it's hard to get things because I'm not in the States. I had to order all my bird cages online for instance. I have to find places that can tell me what all the extra charges are going to be in advance. I will ask my vet if she carries these foods but I did not see them. Where I live when I ask my pet shop about stuff they are not very helpful. They basically tell you to buy what's in stock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki Love View Post
Our Mr Miyagi had an issue with constipation a couple years back (or so). We've had really good success with feeding only canned food (Natural Balance Duck and Green Pea - he doesn't seem to tolerate any others). He's also on 5 mg of cisapride per day (it just helps keep things moving along). The vet has suggested we try and wean him off of it, but given we have two cats, it's sometimes difficult to tell who is doing what in the box There is no harm in having it, so we'll just keep on it
I'm having the same problem because I have three cats. I will look into all the foods and see if anyone sells them around here. Do you think I could cook for my cat if not. I want to buy a food processor because Phoebe does like tuna but only if I break it up really small with a fork. She doesn't eat enough for it to make a difference so I need to find some way of getting her to eat healthier. I'll look into the foods.

Last edited by kittiesandbirds; August 20th, 2012 at 08:16 AM.
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Old August 19th, 2012, 07:44 PM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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After reading info on the link provided I am sure that I need to do something about their diet. Since my oldest cat Nike developed super colin he has really loved eating chicken. He did not have this interest before. I have been giving him chicken whenever I prepare some for the family. I see there are recipes for making cat food on the link. I'm a bit tired right now but will try to read it over tomorrow. I am pretty sure that I can start by changing one meal for a while and see how it goes. Nike has been hospitalized twice with his super colon so I have to be very careful with him. He has to take the lactulose each day and also another tube that worries me because it has Vaseline in it. I always wondered about this stuff. I like that he is running around and looking healthy and we had to listen to the vet because we had no idea how to save him. He did not have surgery but had enemas when hospitalized. Phoebes problem was not as severe because her colon is still normal size.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 09:48 AM
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Cats have very, very specific dietary needs so their diet needs to be balanced with muscle meat, bone & organs, each in specific ratios that reflect a prey model:

80%muscle, 10%bone 10%organ.

Feeding too much tuna is not good for your cat as it is not a balanced meal. However to entice your cat to eat, a bit of tuna added to a meal shouldn't hurt.

You won't find those foods at your vet (and don't allow your vet to talk you into their food, it is overpriced, poor quality junk, in my opinion). A good pet food store (Global, here in Ontario) are the places that sell these. Here are their store locations in Quebec:

http://www.globalpetfoods.com/store-locations
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Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
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Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

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Old August 20th, 2012, 08:36 PM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Cats have very, very specific dietary needs so their diet needs to be balanced with muscle meat, bone & organs, each in specific ratios that reflect a prey model:

80%muscle, 10%bone 10%organ.

Feeding too much tuna is not good for your cat as it is not a balanced meal. However to entice your cat to eat, a bit of tuna added to a meal shouldn't hurt.

You won't find those foods at your vet (and don't allow your vet to talk you into their food, it is overpriced, poor quality junk, in my opinion). A good pet food store (Global, here in Ontario) are the places that sell these. Here are their store locations in Quebec:

http://www.globalpetfoods.com/store-locations
I will look at the link again tomorrow. I only saw Ontario locations. I had a stroke some years back so sometimes I can't see what's right in front of me. I did only mix the tuna in with the canned food. I have had such a problem feeding my cats. I tried every canned food I ever found and the brand I have now is the only thing the three will eat. I really don't understand why they are so difficult. Nike did start to eat what the vet gave me. I think he realized something in there was loosening up his stools because it does do that although I don't doubt it is garbage. I can't say the ingredients seem right. I am mixing in chicken as well now. Thanks for the link hopefully I can find stores in Quebec not too far.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 08:38 PM
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Thanks for the link hopefully I can find stores in Quebec not too far.
http://www.pmcglobal.ca/home.php?lang=fr

Try this link - not sure whereabouts in Quebec you are?
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Old August 21st, 2012, 08:25 AM
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I will look at the link again tomorrow. I only saw Ontario locations. I had a stroke some years back so sometimes I can't see what's right in front of me. I did only mix the tuna in with the canned food. I have had such a problem feeding my cats. I tried every canned food I ever found and the brand I have now is the only thing the three will eat. I really don't understand why they are so difficult. Nike did start to eat what the vet gave me. I think he realized something in there was loosening up his stools because it does do that although I don't doubt it is garbage. I can't say the ingredients seem right. I am mixing in chicken as well now. Thanks for the link hopefully I can find stores in Quebec not too far.
If you click on the map and move it eastward until you hit Quebec. It looks like they are only in Western Quebec (Montreal area).
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Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
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Old August 21st, 2012, 09:26 AM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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It does look like there are none in the city of Quebec. However the link provided above spoke of preparing our own food. It seemed rather complex and I can just imagine the look on my vets face if I ask her about this. They really are in the business of making money. They will stand by the food they sell.

Example: the vet calls with the results of my cats tests. I ask if she has been tested for certain cat disease. She has been an indoor cat for over 11 years now. The vet starts saying no that was not the nature of what we took blood for but bring her in and we will do those tests... So I have to dig, ask questions to find out she has no symptoms of any of those disease and she would present symptoms by now. She seems embarrassed to have proposed all the costly testing for nothing.

I ask her what high cholesterol could be caused by. Then when she says that pancreatic problems (pancreotite it sounded like she said) caused tummy aches. I ask "so you think she has that" because she is proposing further costly testing. "No, she would be vomiting ect" basically has none of those symptoms either. I have to ask her to be precise about how high just above 9 is. It's actually not that bad she has to admit, just slightly above.


It makes me feel so insecure. I am not an atm machine. I just want to know what's wrong with my cat. Basically I think by finding her intestines full from one end to the other (all intestines visible usually you dont see them all on x rays) and all those huge bubbles of gas the size of golf balls (when considering the fact that the x-rays are bigger than the actual cat and extrapolating) I can imagine her tummy did hurt.


She is acting perfectly normal since a few doses of lactulose as the vet suggested to do. Basically the vet is ready to do any costly tests and then when questioned admits they are not really necessary.

The other vet I had before was a bit more ethical however they ruined my cats hip during a procedure and gave the excuse that it's hard so they have to grab his legs. He has limped ever since his first hospitalization. They themselves were surprised at how nice his bones looked on x-rays at 13 years old. I was surprised when the vet commented on this as my own cats are all I know. I myself did not know that his state was surprising, as far as his bones go. They did save his life and we were so overjoyed that we did not complain but went elsewhere for the next procedure. The vet herself had a great character but many of these procedures are done by assistants. I have seen exploratory surgery that goes into a joint to see why the animal limps on tv. I know that they caused the limping but have no recourse against them. Had they been a bit rougher knowing he had a good bone structure, he is still almost 14 years old?

His limp became much less pronounced over this last year till you probably would not notice now not knowing him. I still feel really bad when I have to bring him back. He was hospitalized a second time at the new vet for growling in the litter box. I can't take any chances we love him too much.

Sorry the post is long. I really think if nobody sells the food closer to home I will have to resort to making food. However reading the info I don't know if I would be at ease grinding bone into the food. They did speak of alternatives to this. I guess I have to find all the right vitamins and also I don't think I could feed my cats raw because my daughter has a degree in microbiology. After knowing so much about bacteria, I don't think I could bring myself to give it to them raw. I still need to do something to prolong their lives as much as possible.

I appreciate the links and will probably read and re read any posted. Thanks in advance. Hopefully I can find a way to make my own food.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 09:43 AM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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I may have found another solution. One of the stores is close to where my husbands big rig regularly stops. He has to see if he can bring the truck there bobtail. If we can buy a case (full box of cans) of food at a time it may work.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 09:48 AM
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I like your attitude .

I make homemade raw and it's really not that difficult if you buy a whole chickens, then you don't have to weigh the bones, add some liver and chicken giblets (kidneys & heart), some raw egg yolks, iodized salt and throw it through a grinder, put into daily bags, throw into the freezer and voila, an hours work for a month worth of food.

If you use only very fresh meat, freeze the food and only thaw it in the fridge and use within 24 hours of it being thawed you probably won't have a bacteria problem.

Cat's digestive systems are meant to eat raw meat, not cooked. Many of their essential vitamins are destroyed by heat, so they only way they can get them in their natural form is through raw meat. Their digestive fluids are more acidic than humans, making it an offensive environment for bacteria growth. Plus, their digestive tracts are so short the food from mouth to anus should be less than 12 hours. Did you know that cats have one of the shortest digestive tracts when compared to body length.

Another interesting fact is that cats don't have amylase to break down carbs into usable form, so any energy or protein from plant matter is pretty much useless to cats. Meat protein is the easiest to extract essential amino acids so that is why cats don't need long digestive tracts, unlike herbivores.

In all the years that I've been feeding my cat's raw, I've had almost no stomach upset and the only time that I get any now is if hubby gives Jasper too many kibble treats . If I had more confidence in my recipe, I would feed them only raw.

Another solution is to buy additives to raw meat, so you don't have to worry about adding bones/liver/giblets/salt/yolks. You can add it to ground beef/chicken/turkey, but you need to know that the meat is freshly ground that day to avoid bacteria growth that can occur in it. http://www.felineinstincts.com/order...derNow-idx.php
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Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
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Old August 21st, 2012, 01:51 PM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
I like your attitude .

I make homemade raw and it's really not that difficult if you buy a whole chickens, then you don't have to weigh the bones, add some liver and chicken giblets (kidneys & heart), some raw egg yolks, iodized salt and throw it through a grinder, put into daily bags, throw into the freezer and voila, an hours work for a month worth of food.

If you use only very fresh meat, freeze the food and only thaw it in the fridge and use within 24 hours of it being thawed you probably won't have a bacteria problem.

Cat's digestive systems are meant to eat raw meat, not cooked. Many of their essential vitamins are destroyed by heat, so they only way they can get them in their natural form is through raw meat. Their digestive fluids are more acidic than humans, making it an offensive environment for bacteria growth. Plus, their digestive tracts are so short the food from mouth to anus should be less than 12 hours. Did you know that cats have one of the shortest digestive tracts when compared to body length.

Another interesting fact is that cats don't have amylase to break down carbs into usable form, so any energy or protein from plant matter is pretty much useless to cats. Meat protein is the easiest to extract essential amino acids so that is why cats don't need long digestive tracts, unlike herbivores.

In all the years that I've been feeding my cat's raw, I've had almost no stomach upset and the only time that I get any now is if hubby gives Jasper too many kibble treats . If I had more confidence in my recipe, I would feed them only raw.

Another solution is to buy additives to raw meat, so you don't have to worry about adding bones/liver/giblets/salt/yolks. You can add it to ground beef/chicken/turkey, but you need to know that the meat is freshly ground that day to avoid bacteria growth that can occur in it. http://www.felineinstincts.com/order...derNow-idx.php
I understand about the cats digestive systems being meant to eat raw. I am worried about the source of the meat. When I look at the images I see of how chickens are raised it concerns me. As would the source of any meat.

I worked at a pet shop where they had many snakes the rats where kept in the back in a kind of giant metallic cage that had been purchased off of a lab. It was disgusting because they totally had lost track of what was in that giant lab cage.

This was a long time ago but I bet they still have that cage for their rats today. When I got there I asked about how many rats should be in one square. Barely any light got into the cage which maybe rats appreciate but you could not really see that well inside. The person who was in charge of all the snakes for the region of Quebec explained the whole thing to me. There should have been six rats per square. The person who showed me what and how to feed the rats would open each door, bang it open and shut violently to scare the rats then grab the food and water bowl. The same process would occur to put the bowls back.

I asked if it had ever been cleaned. They assured me it had. After some discussion and asking how? where do they put the rats? we decided I should clean the thing. I brought in some big aquariums and cages and also an old table I had in the basement. I set up a better system to care for the rats. The aquariums for use to put the rats in during cleaning.

When I finally got in there and started taking them out (I am not frightened when it comes to animals or bites and was much more rapid in those days, I did read a very extensive book on rats before starting). I was nearly attacked by one big rat. It turned out her gang were living with the carcass of and old companion. Luckily I had read the book. When I opened the door nonchalantly she was stomping back and forth quickly on her hind legs. As I shut the door I heard her thomp into it.She turned out to be not really aggressive once I had her in a clean environment.

There were approximately 30 rats per square. Obviously these rats had suffered severe neglect. I got the whole stainless steel giant apart and cleaned it. Did this regularly after that. I set it back up with six adults as was the standard for that cage system. It was a horrific sight for the owner of the pet shop to see all the aquariums full of rats. They had no idea they had such a problem. They sell frozen rats to clients for their snakes also.

This is one of the reasons I would never have a snake. Although I don't judge others because I know it's just one of my quirks. I'm just saying I know my limits and my strengths.

This story may seem to have nothing to do with how chickens are kept but I know how easy it is for people to get into a rut and not really notice or care.

Sometimes I see TV reports where someone has filmed the inside of where chickens are kept and I feel like it's deja vu. An employee goes in with a camera and shows us cages were dead birds are left rotting with healthy ect. The next day after being advised that a government official is coming by to check none of the problems are visible. Everything has been made to respond to norms. There are probably some very clean installations and some less clean elsewhere. I've seen some horrible ones on TV. I'm sure there are some very conscientious people out there who have chicken farms.

I know that animals that live outside may have ticks or whatever but they probably don't have the super bacteria that can build up in the kinds of environments where we house massive amounts of chickens then use lots of penicillin on them.

I have to find a way to feed them the best way possible within the restraints of my quirks. It's just one of those things I could see it works well for someone I know but never be able to do it myself. If I can get to one of the outlets that sell the cat food mentioned I hope it's cooked. There must be a way to get the proper mix with supplements by making (with cooked) or buying it.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 02:27 PM
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I am worried about the source of the meat. When I look at the images I see of how chickens are raised it concerns me. As would the source of any meat.
I totally understand where you're coming from. I personally think industrial agriculture is one of the greatest evils of the modern world (and one reason why I'm vegan). But there are better options if you can find them. Local farmer's markets or holistic/organic health food stores are often a great place to source humanely raised and less contaminated meats. Also, there are a number of commercial frozen raw diets for pets that use much better quality meat than you'd find even in a grocery store. You may have to pay more for that convenience though. I myself am not totally comfortable feeding my cats chicken from the grocery store, but I also know many people that do without issues. It's also important to realize that 99% of the meat in pet food comes from the dregs of factory farming, with any remnants of goodness cooked out of it and then a schwack of additives dumped back in to make it palatable and nutritionally adequate. So if I had to choose between grocery store meat and commercially processed pet food, I'd pick the fresh meat. (As it stands now, I happen to feed my cats half higher quality canned and half frozen commercial raw. Would love to one day feed them 100% raw.)

Anyway, there's a great article here related to this topic that you might be interested in: http://www.caberfeidh.com/Safe.htm
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Old August 21st, 2012, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
I totally understand where you're coming from. I personally think industrial agriculture is one of the greatest evils of the modern world (and one reason why I'm vegan). But there are better options ... http://www.caberfeidh.com/Safe.htm
Sorry I shortened the quote because I basically wanted you to know who I was responding to. You have been very helpful and I am so glad to have the links you worked to find for me. I really wish I had my own farm. Although I know how to care well for animals as far as keeping things clean and skin disease goes I would have a really hard time killing anything. The city of Quebec is not a good place to find farmer's markets. I know where one is but it's mostly vegetables. I used to live on an island and grew all my own crops. We did have two pet chickens but never killed them. I read that some raw food now goes through a kind of pasteurization process. It's so hard to get most things people talk about on the internet here. About eating chicken from a grocery store I remember someone telling me that he rotates his poisons. It seems that there are so many risks for our families and pets. From plastics in baby bottles, through mercury in fish to antibiotics in our meats and milk. Recently the standards for toxicity are being revised to include foods that cause obesity through certain substances added. Growing our own foods does have many advantages unfortunately I did not want to school my girls on the Island. I do miss that life dearly now though. I bet your cats are healthy. I have the problem where Nikes colon is so stretched out that changing foods now may not completely solve. I won't give up on him because dying from constipation is too cruel a fate. Hopefully the insight on the links will help. Thanks for all your trouble.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 04:46 PM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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I read the info on the link. I like the idea of cooking the meat in chunks to kill surface bacteria. We do eat meat that is rare cooked. This is an interesting alternative.
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