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  #1  
Old May 27th, 2012, 02:59 PM
doubletees doubletees is offline
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Need advice 16 yr old lhaso alpso

Hello Everyone

I have a lhaso Alpso Max, he is 16 now ( 17 yrs old in October).

When he was 10, he developed a large non cancerous cyst on his lip, it was about the size of a golf ball and we were able to give him the surgery to have it removed.

The cyst seemed to have been gone for the last 6 years when about a month ago I noticed it was again coming back and over the span of the last month it has grown back to the size of a golf ball.

I have taken him to the vet, who told me that at his age and due to him now also having a heart murmur ( to which he is on fortekor for) it would not be worth the surgery as he won't survive it.

The Vet told me its not hurting him and did not suggest I put him down. He did perscribe antibiotics in hopes it would bring it down in size but we have no such luck so far. The vet said his breed is prone to this kind of problem and he was surprised it took 6 years to come back .

I feel so bad. I love this dog so much , he's my best friend and I don't want him to suffer but I feel helpless in this situation. I don't know what else I can do if they can't remove this from him.

I am sorry, I guess I am just venting a little out of sadness and confusion. I would do anything for this sweet dog and with his age and now heart condition I just don't know what I can do to help him.

If anyone has any thoughts or advice.
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  #2  
Old May 29th, 2012, 11:55 AM
doubletees doubletees is offline
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please.

please if someone could just help, any advice or thoughts. I don't have anyone else.
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  #3  
Old May 29th, 2012, 12:02 PM
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Dog Dancer Dog Dancer is offline
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Sorry to hear about your pup. That said, if the vet says the lump is not hurting him then I would try not to worry about it too much. At his age of 16, the surgery could be far more dangerous on your boy than just leaving the lump where it is.

If you are not certain your vet is giving you good advice you can always go elsewhere for a second opinion. Personally I think your vet is perhaps wise to let well enough alone at this point. I hope it all works out for your boy.
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  #4  
Old May 29th, 2012, 11:26 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Did the vet give any indication what is making the cyst grow?

If it's maybe viral in nature, some sodium ascorbate, it's a fatty acid cyst, maybe some other things to evaluate? I don't really know, just thinking out loud.
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  #5  
Old May 30th, 2012, 12:23 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
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Originally Posted by doubletees View Post
Hello Everyone

I have a lhaso Alpso Max, he is 16 now ( 17 yrs old in October).

When he was 10, he developed a large non cancerous cyst on his lip, it was about the size of a golf ball and we were able to give him the surgery to have it removed.

The cyst seemed to have been gone for the last 6 years when about a month ago I noticed it was again coming back and over the span of the last month it has grown back to the size of a golf ball.

I have taken him to the vet, who told me that at his age and due to him now also having a heart murmur ( to which he is on fortekor for) it would not be worth the surgery as he won't survive it.

The Vet told me its not hurting him and did not suggest I put him down. He did perscribe antibiotics in hopes it would bring it down in size but we have no such luck so far. The vet said his breed is prone to this kind of problem and he was surprised it took 6 years to come back .

I feel so bad. I love this dog so much , he's my best friend and I don't want him to suffer but I feel helpless in this situation. I don't know what else I can do if they can't remove this from him.

I am sorry, I guess I am just venting a little out of sadness and confusion. I would do anything for this sweet dog and with his age and now heart condition I just don't know what I can do to help him.

If anyone has any thoughts or advice.
Is your dog eating OK ? I think the best thing to do it made sure your dog is not in any pain . I am sorry you're going through this, it is very sad and difficult to see your best friend being so sick . I think you should spend as much time as you can with your dog, he really need you by his side right now.
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  #6  
Old June 1st, 2012, 10:27 AM
doubletees doubletees is offline
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thank you all for taking the time to offer advice and support.

@ Dog Dancer ĖI feel like a broken shell of myself. I do think the Vet did good, honestly I knew the surgery would not be an option this time around and he did provide us antibiotics for Max for the next 6 weeks ( on and off as I feel necessary. ) He told us to keep it clean and free of debris and hairs but that is proving to be a challenge as Max rarely lets us near it without putting up a strong fuss. ( heís never been a fan of the face cleaning).

@Maxalisa Ė The vet really did not say much during his last visit about the cause of this or why it happened. I told this vet ( as weíve moved and he is a new vet) about us having it removed before and he was more shocked about it taking so long to come back. Iíve noticed though that having an older dog now the vet I see does not seem to put too much effort or work into discussions with me about the on goings. I find the vet good, compassionate and truly trying to make max comfortable but the general sense I get from his discussions to me is that his life is nearing its end and I should just enjoy him with minimal complications .
You mentioned sodium ascorbate? Is this something that might help his cyst or something that is commonly used in cysts? I am willing to explore any options that are not surgical. My hope was that the vet could drain it or inject it with something to help shrink it down because its fairly large and in such an awkward place on his mouth?

@barkingdog- Max has generally been his old self despite his cyst, of course being an older dog now there is less activity, he tends to sleep more and does not walk a lot in the yard without taking a pause to lay down and enjoy some fresh air but there are all things that have been happening in his age growing and nothing new.
The only thing is that this cyst does annoy him. Even though he eats, drinks, functions fairly normally he does tend to try to rub that side of his face more, especially on the concrete stones in my back yard. Just yesterday he rubbed it enough that it began to bleed fairly moderate in flow and I was in a state of panic. I applied pressure and called the vet and he told me it would stop and with the position of this cyst I can expect things like this to happen. Sure enough the bleeding did stop within 10 minutes and Max was back to his old self. Heís my buddy, we spend all day together and all night.


Thank you all for being so kind to talk me through this. Itís truly hard having an older dog. I got Max when I was 20 years old at a garage sale of all places. They had a sign up saying Dog for sale because the apartment was not allowing them to keep dogs. I asked to see him impulsively and they brought out this beautiful 7month old lhaso alpso who immediately jumped up onto my 1 year old son in his stroller and sat directly in his lap. I fell in love with him. They wanted 100 dollars for him and I knew I had only 78 dollars in my bank account. I offered 75. and they took it. I ran to the machine got the money and walked my new dog home.
Iíve watched him grow up with my son. Max has been through all the good with us all the bad. Many moves to new places. and he always just adapted to anything we did with ease. Heís my old reliable..
Its been hard, these last two years when the health problems began to increase and his age became more apparent to me. When the heart problems began I truly thought then he was not going to make it but he got through it and with the help of the vet and fortekor it seemed to be ok , he has arthritis too and I see the struggles to walk some days and his activity level decrease. Watching him age has been so hard. As you might have guessed, he is my first dog, these emotions are all new to me and so very hard.
I promised myself he would never suffer, I keep asking the vet to tell me when its time and he has not told me that yet.I know itís soon though . I guess I just canít imagine that sweet little dog not being here anymore. I am just such a mess.
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  #7  
Old June 1st, 2012, 11:18 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Originally Posted by doubletees View Post
Thank you all for being so kind to talk me through this. Itís truly hard having an older dog. I got Max when I was 20 years old at a garage sale of all places. They had a sign up saying Dog for sale because the apartment was not allowing them to keep dogs. I asked to see him impulsively and they brought out this beautiful 7month old lhaso alpso who immediately jumped up onto my 1 year old son in his stroller and sat directly in his lap. I fell in love with him. They wanted 100 dollars for him and I knew I had only 78 dollars in my bank account. I offered 75. and they took it. I ran to the machine got the money and walked my new dog home.
Iíve watched him grow up with my son. Max has been through all the good with us all the bad. Many moves to new places. and he always just adapted to anything we did with ease. Heís my old reliable..
Its been hard, these last two years when the health problems began to increase and his age became more apparent to me. When the heart problems began I truly thought then he was not going to make it but he got through it and with the help of the vet and fortekor it seemed to be ok , he has arthritis too and I see the struggles to walk some days and his activity level decrease. Watching him age has been so hard. As you might have guessed, he is my first dog, these emotions are all new to me and so very hard.
I promised myself he would never suffer, I keep asking the vet to tell me when its time and he has not told me that yet.I know itís soon though . I guess I just canít imagine that sweet little dog not being here anymore. I am just such a mess.
You are one very special person. .
My thoughts are with you. I know how difficult it is to see them tire, but you must also rejoice on his life now as you will after. Without you, who the heck knows what could have become of this wonderful soul had you not bought him.
Wish more people were like you.
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  #8  
Old June 26th, 2012, 10:08 AM
doubletees doubletees is offline
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Is it time?

Thank you all for such kindness.

Unfortunately nothing has improved for my dog Max, the tumor is still there, and seems to be larger. While it does not seem to affect him or his eating habits or drinking, this is not improving at all despite weeks of antibiotics.
he is also becoming rail thin even though he eats and drinks normally.

I am in such a turnmoil, seeing him with that growth, so thin and he has also been struggling to walk. He slips a lot at home, has a hard time keeping his balance and in the yard he walks with a hard time, like each step is a struggle his head goes up and down when he walks. yet he still wags his tail when he sees me and he still follows me around from room to room.

During the last month , he has also had 3 seizures. They seem to come on by stress because they all happened in times I had to leave him and when I would come home he was not himself and would have a seizure. I stopped leaving him. The vet said it could be anxiety induced or there could be a brain tumor or cancer growing in him.

people tell me you just know when its time and a part of me knows he has more then I can see happening in him but I am struggling with this. the pain of losing him is unbearable and since he still eats and drinks ok is it too soon? Am I just delaying the inevitable?
I am so torn up about this. the last thing I want is for him to suffer. I have made him very comfortable these last few weeks and made sure he feels good and comforted. People tell me dogs are usually lifeless when the time comes and dont move eat or drink. Mine still does despite the mountain of ailments i mentioned.
I just want to do the right thing. I just wish I knew what to do.
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  #9  
Old June 26th, 2012, 10:42 AM
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Winston Winston is offline
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Doubletees I am so sorry that you are faced with this decisio0n. May I sugges to you that when the time comes you are giving your pet the greatest gift of all. This gift is the end to suffering and pain and releasing them from that. We dont see it this way usually in the beginning but when the time comes you will.

Here is a quality of life scale that may help you with your decision and give you some ideas on what to look for. I wish you peace with your decision.

Cindy

Quality of Life Scale1

The HHHHHMM Scale

Pet caregivers can use this Quality of Life Scale to determine the success of pawspice care. Score patients using a scale of 1 to 10.

Score
Criterion

H: 0 - 10 HURT - Adequate pain control, including breathing ability, is first and foremost on the scale. Is the pet's pain successfully managed? Is oxygen necessary?

H: 0 - 10 HUNGER - Is the pet eating enough? Does hand feeding help? Does the patient require a feeding tube?

H: 0 - 10 HYDRATION - Is the patient dehydrated? For patients not drinking enough, use subcutaneous fluids once or twice daily to supplement fluid intake.

H: 0 - 10 HYGIENE - The patient should be brushed and cleaned, particularly after elmination. Avoid pressure sores and keep all wounds clean.

H: 0 - 10 HAPPINESS - Does the pet express joy and interest? Is the pet responsive to things around him or her (family, toys, etc.)? Is the pet depressed, lonely, anxious, bored or afraid? Can the pet's bed be close to the family activities and not be isolated?

M: 0 - 10 MOBILITY - Can the patient get up without assistance? Does the pet need human or mechanical help (e.g. a cart)? Does the pet feel like going for a walk? Is the pet having seizures or stumbling? (Some caregivers feel euthanasia is preferable to amputation, yet an animal who has limited mobility but is still alert and responsive can have a good quality of life as long as caregivers are committed to helping the pet.)

M: 0 - 10 MORE GOOD DAYS THAN BAD - When bad days outnumber good days, quality of life might be compromised. When a healthy human-animal bond is no longer possible, the caregiver must be made aware the end is near. The decision needs to be made if the pet is suffering. If death comes peacefully and painlessly, that is okay.

*TOTAL= *A total >35 points is acceptable for a good pawspice
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"UNTIL ONE HAS LOVED AN ANIMAL, PART OF THEIR SOUL REMAINS UNAWAKENED"
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  #10  
Old June 26th, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Dog Dancer Dog Dancer is offline
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Doubletees, you are at a very hard time in your relationship with your pup. I know, as do many of the others here, how hard the decision you have to make is. Last October I had to make the decision to put my 14 year old Akita X Shadow to sleep. She had severe arthritis and the meds were not helping her alot anymore. She stumbled alot, she struggled to get up off the floor, she couldn't get into the car by herself and she lost control of her bowels. All of these I could deal with, but had to ask myself if it was fair for her to have to deal with it. Her body was not functioning properly anymore, and like you, I promised her all her life that I would not let her suffer. I think the hardest thing was having to pick a day and say, okay this is the day I will put her to sleep. It was the worst decision. If she had just died in her sleep I wouldn't have had to make that decision. But ultimately, even though she still was a happy girl, I made the appointment to have her pts. It was the right thing for her. Definitely not for me. I still cry over her loss, she was my soul dog. I'm not sure that I can say I knew for sure this was the time to do it, but I knew in my heart that keeping her longer was for my sake and not for hers. She passed to the bridge in my arms and with my son there with us. She went knowing how well loved she was. She's pain free now and happy and whole again. I know I'll see her again. The choice is never easy, but make the decision with your head and your heart. Stay strong and know we are here for you.
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  #11  
Old June 26th, 2012, 04:54 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
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Originally Posted by doubletees View Post
Thank you all for such kindness.

Unfortunately nothing has improved for my dog Max, the tumor is still there, and seems to be larger. While it does not seem to affect him or his eating habits or drinking, this is not improving at all despite weeks of antibiotics.
he is also becoming rail thin even though he eats and drinks normally.

I am in such a turnmoil, seeing him with that growth, so thin and he has also been struggling to walk. He slips a lot at home, has a hard time keeping his balance and in the yard he walks with a hard time, like each step is a struggle his head goes up and down when he walks. yet he still wags his tail when he sees me and he still follows me around from room to room.

During the last month , he has also had 3 seizures. They seem to come on by stress because they all happened in times I had to leave him and when I would come home he was not himself and would have a seizure. I stopped leaving him. The vet said it could be anxiety induced or there could be a brain tumor or cancer growing in him.

people tell me you just know when its time and a part of me knows he has more then I can see happening in him but I am struggling with this. the pain of losing him is unbearable and since he still eats and drinks ok is it too soon? Am I just delaying the inevitable?
I am so torn up about this. the last thing I want is for him to suffer. I have made him very comfortable these last few weeks and made sure he feels good and comforted. People tell me dogs are usually lifeless when the time comes and dont move eat or drink. Mine still does despite the mountain of ailments i mentioned.
I just want to do the right thing. I just wish I knew what to do.
It when through this with my dog when he had cancer. Finlay was not able to eat and was peeing blood but he would have his good days and this made it very difficult to to know what was best for him. I knew he could not go without food for long and that the cancer may have spread to his brain as he started to act difference . When he started to have trouble walking and needing to go out to pee a lot , I knew it was time to have my beloved friend go be with my beloved mother. This was so painful for me and over a year later it is still very painful to talk about. I am so sorry your beloved friend is ill , I know some people let nature take is course , it's so hard to tell
you what is best for your heart and your dog. I feel your pain and something doing the right thing does not always feel like the right thing.
People told me I did the right thing with my dog ,but it did not feel that way in my heart. It did in mind but not in my heart, still hurt.
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  #12  
Old June 28th, 2012, 05:10 PM
doubletees doubletees is offline
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thank you

I just want to thank you all for sharing your stories and kindness.

I put Max Down yesterday June 27th 2012. The appointment was made and I had my sign earlier in the day when he fell over and could not get back up right. He looked at me and there aas something in his eyes I just knew it was time.

The vet said it was the right time , he was a frail 14.3 pounds and he has always been about 20 pounds.
I am a mess, I just feel so lost.

RIP Max oct.23-1995 June 27th 2012.
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