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Old September 27th, 2011, 11:31 AM
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Nookie has lost another pound-we're stumped

Well, Nookie monster continues to lose weight. We're getting quite concerned. He has went from 110 lbs down to 85 lbs. The weight loss started when we took him off kibble several months ago. Then he went through a "spurt" where he lost a lot of weight very fast along with a lot of his coat. It became rough, brittle and very thin/frizzy. We found out he had both hook worms and whip worms. Ok, so deworm and all should be well! It has been 2 months now, he is parasite free (we have been doing weekly fecals). But he still continues to lose weight. The loss has slowed down to about a pound a week, but being free of the parasites, he should be gaining. I'm happy to say that his coat issues did clear up. He is now back to being thick, furry and very soft , but again, the weight loss is really starting to scare me

Dr. Marsden is NOT a fan of kibble, even though he was part of the panel to formulate Orijen. But he asked if we wanted to try kibble again (I think he is just as confused about the weight loss as we are). I told him no for one reason: When he was on kibble, he would spit up/throw up several times a day. Even on the complete home cooked, he would spit up/throw up depending on the veggies. But since we've had him on The Honest Kitchen, he may do it once every couple of weeks (usually when we add a new herb for the first few days or a new treat). So I really don't want to have to resort to the kibble again. He is getting between 4.5-5 lbs of cooked food a day (that's about 8 lbs of raw). Dr. Marsden had us add in some quality wheat free oats (1 cup a day), but it didn't seem to do much. So we're now giving him 1 cup of cooked barley along with the oats per day. I'm hoping and 'ing this will help. We will continue to weigh him weekly. In the meantime, does anyone have any suggestions or think you may know what's going on? I know sometimes extra sets of eyes see things that ours don't

Just an FYI: His thyroid levels are in the normal range and his EPI seems to be under control. We thought at first that may be it, but his stools are formed and very normal looking. I'm sure we may be missing something to check, I just don't know what

Thanks

Robyn
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Old September 27th, 2011, 12:16 PM
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Robyn, so sorry to hear that Nookie is continuing to lose weight. How very upsetting that must be. I have no advice to offer unfortunately, only my support and understanding of where you are. Haven't weighed Shadow in a couple weeks, and am afraid to. Will be taking her in to weigh her tonight on the way home from work. It sounds like Nookie is eating plenty, how very confusing for you.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 12:46 PM
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Robyn I just wanted to send you and Nookie Monster a great big hug!

Have you ever tried or heard of Satin Balls? A member here used these to put weight on one of her Great dane's so I am wondering if it will work for your Nookie.

Here is the link to the website with the recipe:

http://www.njboxers.com/satin-balls-recipe.htm

Good Luck MF!
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Old September 27th, 2011, 12:56 PM
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Winston I was thinking of that too. I may even try that with Shadow.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 01:09 PM
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When Frenchy was a member she used these for her dog Nellie and she had great results! I hope it works for both of you!
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Old September 27th, 2011, 01:42 PM
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Thanks to you both, DD and Winston

Frenchy gave me the recipe last year when Nookie was losing so much weight (due to muscle wasting from pred and before his EPI was diagnosed). I can't use it for Nookie, though. He is allergic to wheat and can't have the raw ground beef. He already has a really hard time fighting off the parasites and bacteria he comes in contact with. At his age, he really shouldn't even be susceptible to the worms he has had
Dr. marsden has him on a new herb mixture to help him fight those kind of things off as well as to help control the seizures. I'll print the recipe and take it in when I go to weigh him on Friday. Maybe Dr. Marsden will have some ideas to substitute for the things he can't have

The hardest thing is not knowing why he is still losing. It will be nice to put weight on him, but we need to figure out "why". He's such a complicated little guy.

And thank you both for the care and concern
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"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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Old September 27th, 2011, 01:43 PM
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DD, you and Shadow are in my thoughts and prayers, as always! I will say an extra one for her weight today! Let us know how she is doing
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R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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Old September 27th, 2011, 03:47 PM
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Robyn,it is so scary watching your dog/cat lose weight,not knowing why and I am so sorry Nookie is losing...I have no advice to give,just my that beautiful Nookie will one day be free of all the problems
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Old September 27th, 2011, 04:56 PM
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Thank you so much, chico! To be honest, Nookie is actually doing quite well, save for the weight loss

We expect that he will have a seizure within the next couple of days (he's been very pre-ictal the last 2-3 days), but it's been 7.5 weeks, so farther apart than they have been! And he's had great energy, appetite and is starting to be a real luv bug. He does the cutest things I've ever seen. When we were at Dr. Marsdens, he was standing at the counter filling out the notes on Nookies file. Nookie sat by him, looked up at him and howled a bit, then stuck his paw in Dr. Marsdens hand... and just sat there, looking up at him and held his hand for about 45 seconds!! It was absolutely adorable... the receptionists and techs were just making such a fuss over it, and even Dr. Marsden laughed (he's not a "jolly" kinda man, very reserved lol)
It's just the weight loss and a few minor things here and there. So I guess I just need to be very thankful that's he's doing as well as he is

I tend to panic when something (like the weight loss) happens. I would just be lost without him and/or our beautiful Thorin.
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"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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Old September 27th, 2011, 06:51 PM
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Is it possible it's just an absorption issue? His intestines just not absorbing nutrients well enough? Maybe a digestive enzyme would help?
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Old September 28th, 2011, 07:49 AM
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Wow, if it's not one thing it is another for you and your guys.

Sorry nothing to add to the suggestions, to you and hubby and the furkids.
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Old September 28th, 2011, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
Is it possible it's just an absorption issue? His intestines just not absorbing nutrients well enough? Maybe a digestive enzyme would help?
Thank you for the thought, Hazel

We were thinking that, too. But he's on Pancrease-V already, for a little over a year now. His trypsin levels are a bit deficient, so he can't digest proteins without the porcine powder. But when he was having issues, before the EPI was under control and he lost all the weight, his stools were huge, very light in color and looked like cowpies. His stools are still very large and he goes 2-3 times a day, which would make you think that he isn't digesting as much as he should be. But his stools are a great color and look very good
Dr. Marsden thinks he's just one of those dogs that has to have the "good" grains to keep his weight stable. If that's the case, he should have gained by the time I take him in again this Friday. If not, I think I'm going to insist on another TLI (Trypsin Like Immunoreactivity) test. It's possible we may just need to increase the Pancrease-V. I just hate to do it without testing first because if we give him too much, it makes him SO sick. Wish us luck for Friday! Hopefully the addition of the oats and barley will have helped


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Originally Posted by Sylvie View Post
Wow, if it's not one thing it is another for you and your guys.

Sorry nothing to add to the suggestions, to you and hubby and the furkids.
Thank you Sylvia
It's kinda funny... pbpatti and I were talking and she said it's a good thing she knows me personally, otherwise, Munchausen by Proxy may come to mind

I think with all the issues we've had, I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for thinking that, because I'm sure I would be thinking it!
How are yours doing? Has Bree made a full recovery?
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R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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Old September 28th, 2011, 10:56 AM
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I have never thought of Munchausen by Proxy when I think of you, however I do think that you and hubby are wonderful people.

Thanks for asking about Bree, yes she has had a full recovery and is doing quite well. Her and hubby are so close that if she were human I would be jealous

Our Shadow is hanging in there and we just go day by day with her. She will be 14 in November.

Kobe and Keesha are doing well. Keesha is very nervous right now as we are having our roof shingled and she can't understand where all the noise is coming from. Poor baby. But she is more accepting than she was on Monday.
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Old September 28th, 2011, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Rgeurts View Post
It's kinda funny... pbpatti and I were talking and she said it's a good thing she knows me personally, otherwise, Munchausen by Proxy may come to mind
why would anyone think that??? this has me confused

you are doing what you can for Nook, you know him much better than we do!!!!

before Bree turned 5 (this year) we had a very hard time keeping weight on her, (we thought we would loose her a couple of times) she also can't take any medication at all......she would eat and eat but always loose weight. The vets said it was IBD, so I started added seameal, kelp, and L glutimine to repair her bowels and a diegestive enzimes (have to go look up the name if you want it) , she was on this for 2 years, all the while she was losing weight, she went down to 60lbs at one time..but nothing we did helped... changed her food, made home cooked everything I could think of.. at one time we were giving her slippery elm, for the nurtrients and to help when she had a crisis..

then for some reason, she started to gain weight, why?? we don't know
she seems to have turned a corner but we are always on guard ,we are always very careful of what she eats. we also must make sure that she is eating enough calories for what she puts out....running and playing that sort of thing...
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Old September 28th, 2011, 01:27 PM
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I have never thought of Munchausen by Proxy when I think of you, however I do think that you and hubby are wonderful people.

Thank you, Sylvie. It's mutual!

Thanks for asking about Bree, yes she has had a full recovery and is doing quite well. Her and hubby are so close that if she were human I would be jealous

Too funny!!!

Our Shadow is hanging in there and we just go day by day with her. She will be 14 in November.

Kobe and Keesha are doing well. Keesha is very nervous right now as we are having our roof shingled and she can't understand where all the noise is coming from. Poor baby. But she is more accepting than she was on Monday.
I'm glad to hear Bree is doing well! She's such a beauty
I'm glad that Shadow is holding her own too... it's so hard watching them age. Thorin is still very puppy like in personality and will to play. But his poor old body just doesn't cooperate. I think his Arthritis is really getting to him, so we may have to start the Metacam on a regular basis. And poor Keesha... Thorin gets really freaked out with noises that are out of the "norm" for him too. Give her a hug for me (and an extra treat!!).

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Originally Posted by breeze View Post
why would anyone think that??? this has me confused

you are doing what you can for Nook, you know him much better than we do!!!!

before Bree turned 5 (this year) we had a very hard time keeping weight on her, (we thought we would loose her a couple of times) she also can't take any medication at all......she would eat and eat but always loose weight. The vets said it was IBD, so I started added seameal, kelp, and L glutimine to repair her bowels and a diegestive enzimes (have to go look up the name if you want it) , she was on this for 2 years, all the while she was losing weight, she went down to 60lbs at one time..but nothing we did helped... changed her food, made home cooked everything I could think of.. at one time we were giving her slippery elm, for the nurtrients and to help when she had a crisis..

then for some reason, she started to gain weight, why?? we don't know
she seems to have turned a corner but we are always on guard ,we are always very careful of what she eats. we also must make sure that she is eating enough calories for what she puts out....running and playing that sort of thing...
Breeze, I didn't know you had so many issues with your Bree
It sounds very similar to what Nookie is going through! I would love the name of the enzymes you used. We have him on Pancrease-V, but it's $70.00 for a small 100 gram jar . Along with his and Thorins herbs, his other medications and the home cooked diet for each, it's costing us about $1400 a month. So anywere we can save money at this point is a blessing


And for clarification, pbpatti was joking when she said it
It was around the same time that RottieLover was posting that she had put down one of the dogs she had "rescued" shortly after posting how much progress the dog had made, and was continuing to make. Munchausen by proxy came up in that thread a few times. Patti and I were talking on the phone and she was joking about it with me and I told her I had actually wondered if some people may think that, but hope not! It just kinda stuck in my head and now I can't help but think if people sometimes wonder because it seems like we are always having issues of some kind

But DH and I love both of our boys dearly and would literally do anything within our power to help them.

And thank you both
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R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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Old September 28th, 2011, 02:36 PM
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Really....I was only joking about the Munchausen Robyn and her DH are great doggie people and only ever try the best they can, it's just that Nookie.....well, he's Nookie.

Robyn, I was thinking...oops me bad, maybe Nookie is only supposed to be 80 lbs? It has been sometime since I have seen him but does he look thin? Undernourished?Skinny? patti
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Old September 28th, 2011, 02:51 PM
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Funny how things get twisted around. I took the Munchausen reference to be a joke for sure. I didn't realize Bree had so many issues either. What a lucky bunch of pups on this board who have parents who will move heaven and earth for them. I wish I could offer some suggestions on Nookie's weight issues, but sadly cannot. Just lots of hugs..
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Old September 28th, 2011, 03:10 PM
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Bree has been a sick pup 3 1/2-4 years out of her 5 years, I don't talk about it much I understand what you are all going through and my heart goes out to each and everyone of you's)

this is the first year last fall to this fall that things have turned around for her (knocking on my head cause well we all know it's made of wood, and that my head is stronger than wood )

she has developed arthritis, and weepy eyes and her teeth are not the greatest, but can't do anything about them, but on most days she has more energy than me
her coat is amazing and she is now 89lbs, not to fat still feel her ribs, and her poop is solid and she eats like a horse!!!!

the enzymes we give/gave her is
NaturVet Enzymes and probiotics,

it enabled her to digest some of her kibble (kibble is a mix of kibble fish and bison). when she has a crisis (we grind up her food to a powder so that her body wouldn't have to work so hard and she gets mince meat, sweet patatos, a little chicken stock, and filtered water(all the time now) along with the reg I listed in nurtriants
this way at lest I know she is getting vitamines

now she is getting frozen strawberries as a treat, she gobbles them up, but she is only allowed one a day..
she does not get dog cookies cause she can't digest them, but she does get one people cookie every day she seems to be able to tolerate them much better

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Last edited by breeze; September 28th, 2011 at 03:37 PM.
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Old September 28th, 2011, 03:18 PM
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I knew you were joking, pbpatti.
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Old September 28th, 2011, 03:19 PM
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Breeze, Bree has always just looked so healthy to me I would never have known. Glad she seems to be doing well now, hopefully it's all under control and behind her.

I hope the enzymes that you are using will help out for Rgeurts with Nookie's issues. Every little bit of info that gets shared here helps somebody.
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Old September 28th, 2011, 03:23 PM
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Breeze, Bree has always just looked so healthy to me I would never have known. Glad she seems to be doing well now, hopefully it's all under control and behind her.

I hope the enzymes that you are using will help out for Rgeurts with Nookie's issues. Every little bit of info that gets shared here helps somebody.

I hope it helps rgeurts and nookie
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Old September 28th, 2011, 04:27 PM
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I was pretty sure that you all took it as a joke..I know Robyn did... a little...patti
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Old September 29th, 2011, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by pbpatti View Post
Really....I was only joking about the Munchausen Robyn and her DH are great doggie people and only ever try the best they can, it's just that Nookie.....well, he's Nookie.

Robyn, I was thinking...oops me bad, maybe Nookie is only supposed to be 80 lbs? It has been sometime since I have seen him but does he look thin? Undernourished?Skinny? patti
LoL patti, you are a funny girl
According to the vets, he should weight between 95-100 to be in the optimal range, so 110 was a bit overweight (he was quite chubby lol). But he does look malnourished, so I think they are right. He's 10-15 underweight right now. When he lays down you can see his pelvic bones really sticking out and when he's running/playing you can see his ribs. You can also feel his spine and count every little ridge. But he's acting fine (well... as fine as he ever is! ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Dancer View Post
Funny how things get twisted around. I took the Munchausen reference to be a joke for sure. I didn't realize Bree had so many issues either. What a lucky bunch of pups on this board who have parents who will move heaven and earth for them. I wish I could offer some suggestions on Nookie's weight issues, but sadly cannot. Just lots of hugs..
DD, hugs are always welcome!! And thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by breeze View Post
Bree has been a sick pup 3 1/2-4 years out of her 5 years, I don't talk about it much I understand what you are all going through and my heart goes out to each and everyone of you's)

Wow... it's my heart that goes out to you!! That's a long time to have to deal with these kinds of issues. It has only been a year and a half to this point and DH and I get worn out

this is the first year last fall to this fall that things have turned around for her (knocking on my head cause well we all know it's made of wood, and that my head is stronger than wood )

LoL... nice mental image you gave me!
But I'm very glad that he has turned around, at least for now. Any "good" times we get with them is a blessing. I think until you have a sick baby, you take their health for granted.


she has developed arthritis, and weepy eyes and her teeth are not the greatest, but can't do anything about them, but on most days she has more energy than me
her coat is amazing and she is now 89lbs, not to fat still feel her ribs, and her poop is solid and she eats like a horse!!!!

the enzymes we give/gave her is
NaturVet Enzymes and probiotics,

it enabled her to digest some of her kibble (kibble is a mix of kibble fish and bison). when she has a crisis (we grind up her food to a powder so that her body wouldn't have to work so hard and she gets mince meat, sweet patatos, a little chicken stock, and filtered water(all the time now) along with the reg I listed in nurtriants
this way at lest I know she is getting vitamines

now she is getting frozen strawberries as a treat, she gobbles them up, but she is only allowed one a day..
she does not get dog cookies cause she can't digest them, but she does get one people cookie every day she seems to be able to tolerate them much better

Nookie doesn't get cookies either unless I make them. I have been making him salmon cookies with wild pink salmon, oat flour and whole oats (both wheat free), eggs with the shells on, fresh ground organic flax and organic parsley. He LOVES them and seems to tolerate them well. As for the enzyme, I checked it out and it looks good. I'm going to talk to Dr. Marsden about it! Though I still don't know if that's the problem because his poops are great right now (except for volume!). Did Bree still have good poops when she was having digestion issues?
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"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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  #24  
Old September 29th, 2011, 09:40 AM
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Rgeurts Rgeurts is offline
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I was pretty sure that you all took it as a joke..I know Robyn did... a little...patti
LoL patti, no need for you to be sorry, I'm the one that said it! Bad taste on my part
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"Who can believe that there is no soul behind those luminous eyes!" ~ Theophile Gautier


"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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  #25  
Old September 29th, 2011, 10:26 AM
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According to the vets, he should weight between 95-100 to be in the optimal range, so 110 was a bit overweight (he was quite chubby lol). But he does look malnourished, so I think they are right. He's 10-15 underweight right now. When he lays down you can see his pelvic bones really sticking out and when he's running/playing you can see his ribs. You can also feel his spine and count every little ridge. But he's acting fine (well... as fine as he ever is! ).

I always said and felt that if you shaved Bree they would report me for not taking care of Bree, you could feel her ribs and count all the vertebra in her back, you could also feel her hips bones, it was very sad!!!!



Nookie doesn't get cookies either unless I make them. I have been making him salmon cookies with wild pink salmon, oat flour and whole oats (both wheat free), eggs with the shells on, fresh ground organic flax and organic parsley. He LOVES them and seems to tolerate them well. As for the enzyme, I checked it out and it looks good. I'm going to talk to Dr. Marsden about it! Though I still don't know if that's the problem because his poops are great right now (except for volume!). Did Bree still have good poops when she was having digestion issues?
sometimes, and sometimes blood, or just a mess!! we would jump for joy when her poop was solid
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Old September 29th, 2011, 11:19 AM
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sometimes, and sometimes blood, or just a mess!! we would jump for joy when her poop was solid
LOL... I know all abut the pure joy and excitement of a good poop!! Nookies have been good for a few months now, but he does go through little "spurts" of diarrhea and soft poos.

And it's the same with Nookie. If we were to shave him, you could probably see every bone in his little body right now. You can feel (and even see) his hips bones, they really protrude. And his ribs, you can see and feel each one

The weird thing is when I took him in to weigh him last week, I would have sworn he gained at least a pound or 2. He wasn't looking "as" skinny, but he did actually lose another pound

I want to be hopeful, but I don't want to be let down like last week, again. So I'll just say whatever happens, happens... and hope that the addition of the barley helped. Though I think he may not be tolerating it too well. He has had some reflux the last few days and a bit of gas. Guess we will just wait it out a few more days and if it's putting weight on him, we'll continue it, just maybe in a lower amount. If not, I'll cut it out of the diet.
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"Obey my dog!" - Mugatu

"Who can believe that there is no soul behind those luminous eyes!" ~ Theophile Gautier


"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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  #27  
Old September 29th, 2011, 11:46 AM
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breeze breeze is offline
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LOL... I know all abut the pure joy and excitement of a good poop!! Nookies have been good for a few months now, but he does go through little "spurts" of diarrhea and soft poos.

And it's the same with Nookie. If we were to shave him, you could probably see every bone in his little body right now. You can feel (and even see) his hips bones, they really protrude. And his ribs, you can see and feel each one

The weird thing is when I took him in to weigh him last week, I would have sworn he gained at least a pound or 2. He wasn't looking "as" skinny, but he did actually lose another pound

I want to be hopeful, but I don't want to be let down like last week, again. So I'll just say whatever happens, happens... and hope that the addition of the barley helped. Though I think he may not be tolerating it too well. He has had some reflux the last few days and a bit of gas. Guess we will just wait it out a few more days and if it's putting weight on him, we'll continue it, just maybe in a lower amount. If not, I'll cut it out of the diet.
we had to stop weighing bree, I just didn't want to get upset everytime.. as long as I knew she was getting enough calories, and vitamines and she was eating,and her poops weren't bad and she had energy, that is all that mattered.. (in your case no seizures) it doesn't matter if he's under weight or a little over weight, unless it matters for the herbs and meds??
I was told sometimes when a dog has so many medical issues they don't always weight what they are suppose to weigh

Bree was suppose to be 100-120lbs dog lol lol lol ya right!!!
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Old September 29th, 2011, 12:21 PM
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breeze breeze is offline
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by the way, we haven't seen to many pictures with your boys!!
isn't it about time you post some new ones??
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Old September 29th, 2011, 12:59 PM
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Isn't it great the things that make us happy! Solid poop! Since Shadow doesn't have much bowel control lately that's a HUGE thing for us

I can feel (and see) all of Shadow's hip bones and spine now. I hate that her bones are protruding like that, her tummy isn't skinny though . She loves to sleep on the bare floor at night and it has to hurt her hips. I have to resist the urge to make her move constantly, but that's where she goes right back to sooooo....

Hope all the other furries are doing better today.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 07:47 PM
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LoL patti, no need for you to be sorry, I'm the one that said it! Bad taste on my part
It wasn't bad taste, I just laughed out loud when I read it. Very funny, and I have some inkling of how you can think that way at times. When I was taking Tammy in repeatedly to get her support casts replaced I even wondered if I had a problem, You've been through so much more with poor Nookie, Robyn, he's just a poor sick boy that needed an like you in his life. Imagine if you hadn't been there for him. Sorry he's losing weight, your talk of bones showing made me think of a Dobe I once heard about, it had Diabetes mellitus and someone even reported her to the RSPCA for neglecting the dog, when it was of course getting proper care, just very thin due to that complaint. Hope you get on top of this problem Nookie has though, as you have all his others.
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