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Old August 30th, 2011, 02:48 PM
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sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
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For Backwoodsgal - reasons to spay/neuter your cats

At your recommendation, here is a new thread to follow-up on the topic of spaying/neutering cats based on comments you made in a previous thread: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....51#post1022451

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoodsgal View Post
I know cats are said to have shorter lives if they live outdoors, but Al Cat and Molly lived to 10 to 12 years apiece. Now I have had cats leave on their own, but that has to do with neutering/spraying, which I don't do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoodsgal View Post
I do not fix my cats because it's extra money I do not have nor do my parents. And I just prefer not to. If my boys leave, then they leave. My dad has saw them around from time to time, so some still live and are buff mocho men now.
My response:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
Please check this link for low or no-cost spay/neuter options. Not being able to afford it isn't a valid excuse anymore.



Perhaps you're blissfully unaware of the staggering cat overpopulation and the millions (MILLIONS!!!!!!) that are killed every year in shelters. And it sounds like those are the lucky ones in your area. Your attitude is one of the biggest obstacles that people involved in rescue are trying to overcome. Do society and yourself, and most of all your cats, a favour by researching this topic further. Be part of the change for the better in your community. Just because it's the way it's always been done, doesn't mean it has to continue down this tragic path.
Im hoping that with a little education, youll realize that spay/neuter is the responsible and loving thing to do. Please check out some of the links below and if you have any comments or concerns, let's have a discussion.

Happy reading!

http://www.oxfordpets.com/index.php?...d=61&Itemid=63

http://www.spayusa.org/main_director...enefits_sn.asp

http://www.idausa.org/facts/spayneuter.html

http://cfhs.ca/athome/cat_overpopulation

http://www.guelph-humane.on.ca/news/...n%20Crisis.pdf

http://www.humanesocietynational.org...opulation.html

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/...ay_neuter.html

http://www.homeatlastrescue.org/html...opulation.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8229959

http://spayeducation.org/overpopulation2.php
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Old August 30th, 2011, 09:11 PM
Backwoodsgal Backwoodsgal is offline
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*peeks out from under desk, grabs material, and hides again*

I'm gonna be a bit shady for a while. I'm glad to see a post that is not out for my pelt.

Please don't take this offensively (please), but bless ya'll's hearts, ya'll can be mean. It's taken a lot for me to stick around here. I know ya'll mean well, but a little "hospitality" would be nice.

Guess I should say I should have expected it. My roommate was/is the same way. She gets super hostile on anything related to these subjects.

I'm gonna stay on the defensive for a while. A.k.a asking direct questions and not talking about my practices unless directly asked.

--------
Now back to the matter at hand. I have been researching this subject. I've been on the fence about it since last year (because that was the first time I got exposed to my roommate's pet-values).

And out here where I live, you don't think about pet populations, specifically not in the way ya'll do. Ya'll are concerned about the woods being a horrible place. But for me, the woods is a safe place; grant it, it is a dangerous one as well at times. The rule of natural selection is kinda an excepted rule (for animals and humans). I guess that's just instilled in me. So I hope ya'll can bare with me and be able to agree to disagree on some things.

-------

Cost and location have been my biggest priorities. I have found two places so far that offer low-income fixing. Luckily, we qualify.

Cons:
-One (A) is over two hours away. The other (B) I'm going to have to drive around town (which is half an hour away) to find where it is (Google doesn't know. *sigh* Welcome to the south).
-A has good prices, but gas could make it not worth it unless I take a trip up there. My roommate may help me out if I asked her. B on the other hand, is closer but has no prices stated.
-B may not even be open anymore. I have yet to find a date the site was last updated.

I have a few other minor questions too for members here. I'd rather ask them here than spend hours searching on the web. I prefer direct questions anyway.

And I'm sorry if I've done anything or said anything to offend/anger/upset anyone here. I'm not used to people being so sensitive.
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Old August 30th, 2011, 10:04 PM
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Sugarcatmom - Thank you for taking the time to put all of those sites together. You rock!!!


Backwoodsgal - You have to understand that you joined a PET site. Every pet sites, and there are a lot of them on the web, would have members who react the same way. I don't believe anyone has been "mean". I don't even believe your roommate has been hostile. Perhaps she is very strong in her opinions as to what a true pet is. It does not mean she is hostile. Just very true to her feelings -as you are.

Read the rules of the forum. They may surprise you. Some of them need updated but most hold true. It used to be a forum filled with members with strong beliefs in spaying, neutering, anti back yard breeding and puppy/kitten mills. Now not so much. Believe me, a few months back you would have had a much stronger reaction. I miss those days and the members no longer here.

You say out where you live you don't think about pet populations. I find that very sad. Maybe now is a good time to start a different way of thinking. Do you think allowing cats/dogs in your area to not be neutered and to mate whenever nature dictates does not affect the rest of the country? It does. Let me explain. One male cat is born in your area. As you say - it remains intact, not neutered, and starts roaming. In one night that male cat can impregnate every single female cat that it comes across. Let's say it roams 2 miles. How many unfixed female cats are in that area? 10? 20? More? So each one of those females has an average litter of 2 to 6 kittens. Those kittens grow up and start mating - having the same size of litters - and roaming. Eventually with all the roaming they will reach an area where yes, it does very severely start to affect the rest of the country. Do you know there are quite a few cities where the feral (wild) cat population has gotten so bad they have talked about culling, offering rewards for dead cats brought in, etc? Now is that the way it should be? Not in my world. I will fight to educate people and to make them aware. If I get a bit strong in my wording so be it. I want my point to get across. You can't always do that by pussyfooting around and being nicey nice.

As for people being "sensitive". Some of us walk the walk. We try hard to clean up those messes made by other folks who are irresponsible pet owners. Currently I have over 50 cats under my care. All fixed on my dollar. It was not my plan to ever have that many. That's just the way life turned out and I love it. Maybe now while you are still young is a good time to start researching all of the issues with the over population of dogs and cats and the millions killed each year because there are no homes for them. You never know. You may turn out to be one of those who make a difference in the future. Maybe we can say we had a small part of it...... maybe...
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We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
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Old August 30th, 2011, 10:44 PM
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Rgeurts Rgeurts is offline
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14+, VERY well said. Backwoodsgal, I hope you stick around and educate yourself. Sadly, many, MANY animals are put down every day across North America. There are those such as 14+ who dedicate their lives cleaning up the mess left behind due to your way of thinking, and trying to find these animals what they deserve, a loving home. When people think the way you do, the ones who truly care are fighting an uphill battle. You say it's your culture. I'd be very curious to know where you live. I lived in rural Georgia, which is about as south as you get, but I did not see that culture at all. I know an amazing girl in Texas who lives to take care of the animals who are "thrown" away. Read the link to the story below. If it doesn't bring tears to your eyes, I doubt anything ever would. She is in the deep south as well. I think it has more to do with the way your raised (family-wise), rather than where you live. You CAN change the way you think.

Go to "Letter From Tad" and watch the video:

http://www.the-abandoned-dog.blogspot.com/

It's people like this, and the person who posted above me, that are making a difference. I hope you see that, and change your way of thinking. SCM gave you some great advice and links. Please don't her efforts be for nothing.
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Old August 31st, 2011, 01:01 AM
Backwoodsgal Backwoodsgal is offline
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I'm from rural Mississippi, Rgeurts, which I would argue is worse off. We're always fighting with Alabama over who's poorer, least educated, and most teen-aged mothers.

And please don't get the wrong idea, I've always supported efforts to help animals, especially those abandoned, tortured, and/or neglected.

(And yes, I bawled during the video, and I've seen it before.)

It's just been awhile since we've had the money to fix animals. We've had a lot on our plate. We don't have medical or dental insurance. My parents haven't been to the doctor or dentist in years. Mama was going to go to the dentist this year, but then I had to have oral surgery or lose my front teeth. We're still paying that off to this day, and I have a follow up to ensure my problem doesn't come back.

Yes, it is a family learned principle. Only do what you must. Fixing a pet just isn't on the priority list of expenses. But we do not neglect or starve our animals. (And I wish people didn't think a cat being outdoors was neglect, or that just because I lost two cats to cars, I'm irresponsible. That's what gets to me.) Sometimes, they eat better than we do. And if anyone goes to the doctor, it's gonna be the dog. I can say different all I want, but my family is a bunch of softies.

However, I don't want to rely on a vet for everything (just as I don't want to rely on a doctor myself). I want to be able to take care of myself and animals without going through a vet for every little thing. For example, flea and tick treatments used to be more available for the average person, but now the potent stuff is at the vet's. Also, those home shots used to have everything you need in them, but now you can't get some things, such as rabies.

(Now if you have a scientific backed up reason for this, please share. I'd love to read it. I'm am a science major after all. But I believe it's just to make money just as when doctors take endorsements/kickbacks for certain medicines. But I don't know much about the vet-field, my focus is human medicine. You could say that's where my passion lies. Now that subject, I have strong values on.)

This place I'm looking at half an hour away has only been open for around five years, and I never heard of it. We had been looking for a place to fix Zeva before she got pregnant. We had been doing the responsible thing and locking her away during her "time" but she tore out. Darn little dogs are so hard to keep put away; they find every hole.

Which reminds me, I have a question about behavior due to fixing. If a male is not fixed but the female is, will the male stop interacting (as much) with the female? I pretty sure it wouldn't happen, but animals have surprised me before. One more, if you get one female cat fixed, but not the other two, would the non-fixed show different behavior toward the fixed? I can't get them all fixed at once, that would break me; I need gas money for school.

I can't make any moves until I get my refund check from college. I'll have to help pay for the procedures (most likely) even with the reduced prices. And I have the crate issue. Who sells cheap crates/carriers? Only Jack has ever been put in a carrier, and I borrowed that.
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Old September 1st, 2011, 11:30 AM
danielle9 danielle9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoodsgal View Post
*peeks out from under desk, grabs material, and hides again*

I'm gonna be a bit shady for a while. I'm glad to see a post that is not out for my pelt.

Please don't take this offensively (please), but bless ya'll's hearts, ya'll can be mean. It's taken a lot for me to stick around here. I know ya'll mean well, but a little "hospitality" would be nice.

Guess I should say I should have expected it. My roommate was/is the same way. She gets super hostile on anything related to these subjects.

I'm gonna stay on the defensive for a while. A.k.a asking direct questions and not talking about my practices unless directly asked.
Hi Backwoodsgal;

Just wanted to say that after reading through the posts in the other forum, I am impressed (and happy!) that you "came back" to discuss this issues with the other members.

As with many of the other members on this site, I also agree that spaying or neutering your animals is HIGHLY important but I do think that maybe the way in which certain people have gone about trying to convey their opinion to you might have been slighty agressive. I am sure that no one is trying to be "mean" but there are certainly members on here who are passionate about responsible animal ownership!

By sticking around, it would appear to me that you're open to other people's opinions regarding spaying and neutering and I would really like to point this out to other members! I am also new to this site and can see how "strong opinions" from some members might "scare off" new posters from ever posting again. This is likely the worst scenario especially, in most cases, "different (or maybe "wrong" in some people's view) opinions" in regards to pet ownership is often due to misinformation. In this case, it's lucky that Backwoodsgal is still willing to chat about her opinions with other posters in this forum as maybe new doors will be opened for her in regards to pet ownership. I think that this is exactly why forums like pets.ca should exisit because, from what I read about where Backwoodsgal is from, it doesn't sound like there is a lot of support or information regarding responsible pet ownership where she is from (regardless of how you want to argue). I do believe that there are different opinions regarding animals in many areas of North America (both Canada and the US) so while it is still absolutely important to share views on what responsible pet ownership is... I think it's important not to "scare" people off because that doesn't help anyone to become more responsible or receptive to new ideas.

Backwoodsgal, I do hope that you'll continue to chat with the other members in this forum and take in some information. In my opinion, there are many members that have VERY GOOD information to share and I hope that you'll utilize it.

Just my !

Danielle
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 12:00 AM
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sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoodsgal View Post
If a male is not fixed but the female is, will the male stop interacting (as much) with the female?
Depends what you mean by "interacting". Is the male still a kitten? Cats relationships can evolve over time for a number of reasons. I think taking sex hormones out of the picture though is more likely to keep the relationship amicable and stable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoodsgal View Post
One more, if you get one female cat fixed, but not the other two, would the non-fixed show different behavior toward the fixed?
What could happen initially is the other cats react negatively to the "vet smell" on the cat that had the surgery, but this can be minimized by rubbing all the cats with the same towel or keeping the spayed cat isolated for a few days (she should be kept calm anyway). The reaction is usually just temporary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoodsgal View Post
I can't get them all fixed at once, that would break me; I need gas money for school.
Not sure if you're currently living in Missouri, but there are a few *very* low cost spay/neuter programs around the state. Here is one that only costs $5 per cat: http://www.examiner.com/pet-rescue-i...euter-programs and this one is $25/cat. You might find some more listed here: http://www.metroanimal.org/directory...services.shtml

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoodsgal View Post
Who sells cheap crates/carriers?
PetSmart, and probably other stores as well, have some cheap cardboard carriers that'll do in a pinch: http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=3957455

Good luck! I'm very proud of you for considering all the options and taking this seriously.
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Old September 7th, 2011, 11:50 AM
Backwoodsgal Backwoodsgal is offline
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Back!

^^;

Sorry, school and life took over. Been running around like a chicken with my head cut off.

But I got the work-study job I was trying for so yay for money. :-) Should help with getting my cats spayed and gas. But still waiting on that refund check.

Danielle, thank you so much. You hit the nail on the head. I do want to say that I'm open to new ideas and opinions all the time. I'm glad I stuck around.

Things are different here. People will try to kill you over a dog but expect you to just move on about a cat, in general terms anyway. It's not everyone, but we don't exactly have top notch people to uphold animal laws. For example, I personally have never seen or heard of anyone coming to check on rabies or other vaccinations. Ever.

Not an excuse, just letting ya'll in on how people can get away with things or just never be taught about them.

And thank you sugarcatmom. Wish I had that $5 price around here. They would be fixed in a heartbeat. Also, the first question about behavior was about dogs. My bad, my tablet must have skipped over some of my words when I posted. It likes to do that.

I also chatted with my old roommate. She's toned down considerably. So much easier to talk with her. She and another college friend gave me some more options of where I can take my babies. I still can't find the one in my county. That thing is hidden good.
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Old September 7th, 2011, 01:02 PM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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Just a thought here re vets. Do you have any large animal vets around? Where I was living in Saskatchewan, I had a choice between a town vet and a large animal country vet. The large animal vet was alot cheaper for cats and dogs, their offices were not fancy and I think they enjoyed the break from cattle and horses to work on kitties and puppies!! Given a choice between a 1000 pound rangy bull and a 10 pound cat, I think I'd enjoy the cat more!!
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Old September 7th, 2011, 01:46 PM
Backwoodsgal Backwoodsgal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattymac View Post
Just a thought here re vets. Do you have any large animal vets around? Where I was living in Saskatchewan, I had a choice between a town vet and a large animal country vet. The large animal vet was alot cheaper for cats and dogs, their offices were not fancy and I think they enjoyed the break from cattle and horses to work on kitties and puppies!! Given a choice between a 1000 pound rangy bull and a 10 pound cat, I think I'd enjoy the cat more!!
Hadn't thought of that. The web says there are none near where I live, but my Dad may know of one. I'll look into it. Thanks for the suggestion.
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