Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Cat health - Ask members * If your pet is vomiting-bleeding-diarrhea etc. Vet time! > Kitten health

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 26th, 2011, 12:38 AM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
Another fast eater/diarrhea stinky kitten thread

Hey all, you've been such wonderful help to me before, I know this is the place to get some good help.

I'm just not sure which advice to take...

My new kitten is about 10-12 weeks old. I got him from a lady who had the mother and father and 4 kittens to give away. I believe they were indoor only cats but that might not be true. Since I've had him he has been a insane eater, cries like crazy when he's hungry and STINKS. Very gassy and lots of runny poo.

I originally started feeding him about half and half Royal Canin Baby canned food (has grain in it) with Orijen 80/20/0 kibble (no grain, high quality protein, free run, wild caught, no preservatives...yada yada...)

When I took him to the vet, the vet said to stop feeding him the wet food (yeah I know but maybe that was for the best as it has carbs in it). He was dewormed and given first shots.

The vet didn't seem terribly concerned about his gulping of food and gassiness (I realize now that gulping can = farting).
I told him that sometimes he eats so fast and poos so quickly afterwards that I've seen whole kibbles in his poo. He said, 'well he's been completely dewormed (he was given that new one through the skin on the back of his neck one shot deal thing, the name escapes me atm) and if this doesn't stop in a week or so, we may have to try something else (ominous words those) but some cats are just like that.'

Riiiiight.
I am not overly confident in what his 'something else might be' and I don't want to pay for unnecessary treatments and/or tests, really who does?

Switching to dry only seemed to help, but now I attribute it to feeding him less, I was overfeeding him, d'oh!

That was about 2 weeks ago. He is still insatiable, loses it when he hears my other cat eating, (I've had to break my no counters rule for her so she could actually get a chance to eat. Also have to lock him away when I feed Gracie my little dog.)
I have tried freefeeding and restricting food limits both and it doesn't seem to make a difference. He seems otherwise healthy and active, does not drink excessively... just REALLY freakin' hungry.

I poked around here a bit and saw that probiotics are recommended, wet food only obviously (although I do think the Orijens is a pretty good product personally) possibly some digestive enzymes...

OR
that he needs to go back to the vet for more testing. Actually he was never tested, the vet told me that this stuff they dewormed him with was new and kills everything. (True?) I even had a fecal sample with me but they didn't bother with that. They also said I did not have to come back in X number of days to get his stool checked because it WOULD work. This was entirely new to me, but he is a new younger vet with new ideas that took over the old place I went to.

What to do first????

He is due for his next shots soon should I wait and bring a new sample then?

Should I find a new vet?

Should I be concerned that he might have something contagious to my other cat and dog?

Should I try the probiotics or enzymes? Yogurt?
If so can anyone recommend a place to buy these in Edmonton?

Should I just switch to a higher end canned food such as Wellness? I'm kinda scared to do that for fear of the switch making it worse.

Thank you for taking the time to read this very long post!

His name is Monkey by the way... and he's adorable, of course.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old July 26th, 2011, 10:35 AM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
Just wanted to clear up the fact that when I said I have tried food restriction I meant that I try to feed him really small amounts several times a day... not that I am trying to starve my kitten! LOL.
It doesn't work very well anyways and is a huge PITA to boot.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 26th, 2011, 11:36 AM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,299
Hi chloe_close (and Monkey too),

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
Since I've had him he has been a insane eater, cries like crazy when he's hungry and STINKS. Very gassy and lots of runny poo.
Does sound like something is going on with his digestive tract. Do you have an idea of just how much he's eating per day? What was he eating before you got him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
When I took him to the vet, the vet said to stop feeding him the wet food (yeah I know but maybe that was for the best as it has carbs in it).
Ugh. Especially considering the diarrhea, Monkey needs the moisture in the canned food. The vet has it backwards. Although yes, a better canned food would be a good idea. Also, Orijen is far from carb-free. The potatoes add quite a bit of starch, which is necessary to form the kibble nuggets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
He was dewormed and given first shots.
Really wish the vet hadn't vaccinated him, as vaccines should only be administered to HEALTHY cats. I would skip the boosters until his intestinal issues are under control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
I told him that sometimes he eats so fast and poos so quickly afterwards that I've seen whole kibbles in his poo.
Definitely not normal. There could be some malabsorption issues and consequently he's not getting enough nutrients from the food, thus the insatiable appetite and poorly digested kibble. Digestive enzymes could help, but I also think Monkey needs to be on a better, simpler canned food. Orijen has way too many protein sources and there's no way to figure out if one of those is causing Monkey's problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
some cats are just like that.'
Oh jeez. Those cats that "are just like that" are not healthy or normal, and are almost always on the wrong diet. His lack of insight into this issue is a bit concerning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
Switching to dry only seemed to help, but now I attribute it to feeding him less, I was overfeeding him, d'oh!
Help how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
If so can anyone recommend a place to buy these in Edmonton?
Are you near a Tailblazers store? They could also help you pick out a better wet food, or maybe even a frozen raw diet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
Should I just switch to a higher end canned food such as Wellness? I'm kinda scared to do that for fear of the switch making it worse.
Wellness would be a good choice. They recently came out with a new line of minced and cubed canned foods that have simple ingredients, are grain/gluten/by-product free, and are a big hit in my house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
His name is Monkey by the way... and he's adorable, of course.
I think we need some proof of this adorableness you speak of.
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 26th, 2011, 12:48 PM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
He is eating 1/3 of a cup a day of Orijen. Potatoes!! DUHHHH. I guess the 0% means zero grains? I thought potatoes were not so bad???

He was eating Kitten Chow. (cue the eye rolling)

It helped that originally when I cut him off the Royal Canin he had smaller, more normal poos but that stopped. I don't know why this occurred.


OK will wait on the vaccines. I did not know that about them.

Definitely DEFINITELY going to switch vets as well. Got a good one to recommend? I live in the Old Strathcona district.

I think first I will go find him some better canned food today and try that (the Wellness one you mentioned). I'm not too concerned about whether or not he will eat it, he will eat ANYTHING and tries to. Which also makes me suspicious that he could be getting into something he shouldn't... plants maybe? Doesn't appear so but I would not put anything past him when it comes to eating.

After that my next step may be to try the digestive enzyme thing. One step at a time...

So you think he has been properly dewormed? How long should I expect the new food to take effect? Should I do it gradually or just straight on over?

There IS a Tailblazers nearby, I had always found it to be astronomically expensive though, I will buy whatever I have to to get him healthy.
I know that Wholesale Pet Supply used to be fairly reasonable but they went out of business. I have heard though that they are now back in business so maybe I will try there as well.

Ask and you shall receive!

First pic ever:




The LOOK after getting caught playing with Baby Kitty's tail (aka. The Cat Formally Known As Abbey):




And just so she doesn't feel left out, it's ruff bein' a doggie ya know? Gracie:



ETA: Thank you!!! :blush:
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 26th, 2011, 04:47 PM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
He is eating 1/3 of a cup a day of Orijen. Potatoes!! DUHHHH. I guess the 0% means zero grains? I thought potatoes were not so bad???
Potatoes tend to be slightly less noxious than grains only because grains are more allergenic, but cats really shouldn't be eating much of either. 17% of the calories in Orijen come from carbohydrate, which is still too high even though it's lower than many other brands of kibble. But the biggest problem is the lack of moisture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
It helped that originally when I cut him off the Royal Canin he had smaller, more normal poos but that stopped. I don't know why this occurred.
Hard to say, could be a number of things. For one, Royal Canin kitten contains powdered cellulose, which is basically sawdust. That could have been irritating his bowels and causing more volumous stool.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
OK will wait on the vaccines. I did not know that about them.
Ya, and most vets seem to ignore that bit of info, which just so happens to be on the vaccine label direct from the manufacturer. The reason you want the pet to be healthy is so that their immune system can react appropriately to the vaccine "threat" and create enough antibodies. If they're already weakened from another illness, vaccinating can either make them sicker by draining resources better used for getting them healthy, or the vaccine is useless because the immune system doesn't have enough energy to react to it. Over simplification, but that's the gist of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
Definitely DEFINITELY going to switch vets as well. Got a good one to recommend? I live in the Old Strathcona district.

Don't know too much about vets in Edmonton but there is a holistic clinic in that area that I've heard good things about. Here's the info:

Dr. Steve Marsden, DVM, ND, MSOM, LAc, Dipl.CH
Dr. Karen Marsden, DVM, CVA
Edmonton Holistic Veterinary Clinic
8215 - 102 Street,
Edmonton, Alberta T6E 4A5
Phone 780-436-4944
Fax 780-438-0465
Small animal, certain exotics, human
Holistic Practices: Chiropractic, acupuncture, homeopathy, Chinese and Western herbs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
So you think he has been properly dewormed? How long should I expect the new food to take effect? Should I do it gradually or just straight on over?
Gotta run, will try to answer these questions later.

And OH MY GOD, what a cutie-pie Monkey is. As are Gracie and Baby Kitty.
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 26th, 2011, 07:13 PM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
Well after much searching and hemming and hawing I came home with a 12 pack of Wellness Kitten Formula. I hope that's okay...
I could not find the new line that you referred to. I also saw the Before Grain line of foods but I've never heard of them before and to be honest the 'President's Choice-y' look of the packaging scared me off of it. LOL.

Now that I'm at home on the computer it appears that it might have been a better choice. (?) They don't have a kitten version of that though (does that matter?) so I went with the Wellness.

I decided to go with a straight up switch to the new food. I figured that his tummy is already messed up and if the food is the likely cause of it then I'm doing him no favours by making him eat it any longer than necessary. I really hope that was the right action to take.

I wasn't sure how much to feed him either. It says for a 20 week or less kitten to feed as much as they can eat 3-4 times a day. LOLOL! I'm pretty sure he would eat until he exploded.

I gave him about a third of a 3oz. can and smeared it around. ???

The 21-30 weeks guideline says feed 2/3 of a can per pound of body weight. Except that I have no idea how much he weighs. I would imagine he is underweight for his age but he is not really skinny or anything. I don't even have a scale in the house of any type so that's no help.

(Pleasepleaseplease let those be the right decisions!)

It actually took him longer than 30 seconds to eat it!! WOW. And he didn't run to the litter box immediately after either. And mannnnn... is that dish ever cleannnnn...

I guess we will just wait and see what happens next...

I have seen that holistic vet (thank you for the rec) it is quite close to me, however I've not ever been to a holistic vet and have no idea what to expect.

Glad you enjoyed the pics, they are after all the least I can do for all the help you've given me, thank you so much!! Sorry to be such a pain with all the questions!

FYI Edmonton and Area People:


Trident Wholesale Pet Supply is going to stop carrying Wellness and everything they have is on clearance prices. I only talked to them on the phone and they seem to have a limited selection but it might be worth checking out.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 26th, 2011, 08:27 PM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
Well after much searching and hemming and hawing I came home with a 12 pack of Wellness Kitten Formula. I hope that's okay...
Wellness Kitten is great! I fed a lot of it to my momma kitty (semi-feral that I trapped) and her 5 babies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
I could not find the new line that you referred to.
It's really new, so probably not stocked at very many places yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
I also saw the Before Grain line of foods but I've never heard of them before and to be honest the 'President's Choice-y' look of the packaging scared me off of it. LOL.
Before Grain is pretty good. The texture is a little grainier than Wellness but the ingredients are decent and not very complicated. My cats are kinda hit-n-miss with it as far as how much they like it. (Hilarious about the "President's Choice" reference - never realized it but you're so right!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
They don't have a kitten version of that though (does that matter?) so I went with the Wellness.
Doesn't matter. Kitten versions usually have a slightly higher fat content but it tends to be more of marketing gimmick than anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
I decided to go with a straight up switch to the new food. I figured that his tummy is already messed up and if the food is the likely cause of it then I'm doing him no favours by making him eat it any longer than necessary. I really hope that was the right action to take.
That is actually what I would have recommended as well, for that very reason. A more gradual switch might have helped if you wanted to avoid GI issues in the first place, but since he's already got 'em, there's no point in wasting time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
I wasn't sure how much to feed him either. It says for a 20 week or less kitten to feed as much as they can eat 3-4 times a day. LOLOL! I'm pretty sure he would eat until he exploded.

I gave him about a third of a 3oz. can and smeared it around. ???
Good thinkin about smearing the food on a plate, that should help slow down his hoovering. Maybe try giving him 1/2 can 4 times a day? I can't remember how much my kittens were eating at that age, but it seemed like a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
I don't even have a scale in the house of any type so that's no help.
Did the vet weigh him at all at his last visit? Many vet clinics will let you bring in your pet for a weigh-in, no charge. Not urgent that you do that right away, but at some point it would be good to make sure he's gaining weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
I guess we will just wait and see what happens next...


Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
I've not ever been to a holistic vet and have no idea what to expect.
It's a little different from a regular vet in that they take a much more thorough history of the animal on the initial visit (not that a 10 week old kitten has much of a history ). This can cost more than a conventional vet would, but the goal is to heal the whole animal, not just suppress symptoms and have the problem keep coming back (saving money over the long-term). Many holistic vets also integrate allopathic medications when necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
Sorry to be such a pain with all the questions!
Not at all! I hope Monkey gets over his poopin problem.
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 26th, 2011, 11:07 PM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
Quote:
Wellness Kitten is great! I fed a lot of it to my momma kitty (semi-feral that I trapped) and her 5 babies.
Oh thank God!! So far... so far... he seems to be doing better.

His tummy is less bloated (when I handle him he does not become a live squeak toy haha) and I have only seen him use the litter box once and it was less runny.

Could be just because I was behind in feeding him today due to being out all afternoon scouting for the good stuff. But I'm hoping it's a sign of good things to come. He is definitely chock full of energy although he has never seemed to lack in this department. LOL! That was the understatement of the year. 'Monkey' suits him quite well in that regard.

Aw good for you for rescuing Mommy and babies! I love this forum and the kindhearted, helpful, not-to-mention much smarter than me people on it.


Quote:
Before Grain is pretty good. The texture is a little grainier than Wellness but the ingredients are decent and not very complicated. My cats are kinda hit-n-miss with it as far as how much they like it. (Hilarious about the "President's Choice" reference - never realized it but you're so right!).
I know! The first time I saw it I was like what the heck are Superstore products doing in Tailblazers?? You would think some marketing guru would have noticed that... anyways, if Wellness doesn't work (it will!) I may try that next because it does seem simpler ingredient-wise.


Quote:
That is actually what I would have recommended as well, for that very reason. A more gradual switch might have helped if you wanted to avoid GI issues in the first place, but since he's already got 'em, there's no point in wasting time.
Yayyy!! I did something right all by myself!


Quote:
Good thinkin about smearing the food on a plate, that should help slow down his hoovering. Maybe try giving him 1/2 can 4 times a day? I can't remember how much my kittens were eating at that age, but it seemed like a lot.
Heh, I can't take credit for that one, I read it in another thread here before I posted MY story.
That does seem like a lot... I just gave him another third and it's been about 4 hours. He is eating at almost normal pace... OH! Just turned around to watch him slowly licking the plate and guess who was helping him? Jeez! Well, Baby Kitty likes Wellness too apparently. Grrrrreat.
Now I'm going to have to feed HIM separately, she never had a chance to horn in on his food before, it disappeared literally in seconds. Well she's gonna have to eat all that Royal Canin first, hmmph!


Quote:
Did the vet weigh him at all at his last visit? Many vet clinics will let you bring in your pet for a weigh-in, no charge. Not urgent that you do that right away, but at some point it would be good to make sure he's gaining weight.
No he did not. I realized that today, nor did he take his temp. I think he at least listened to him internally, I know he checked his ears and mouth quite thoroughly.
Still though, when you bring a kitten specifically because he has eating and pooing issues you would think that checking his weight would be a priority. I guess I was just so busy trying to impress upon him how serious I thought the issue was that I forgot to pay attention to what he was NOT doing. New vet time!!

And I believe I will check out that holistic one you mentioned. I'm curious and hopeful to see how different it is. Tailblazers has a scale there so I think I will take him and weigh him tomorrow, depending on how he is doing.





tanks u for all ur help aunty sugarcatmom!! i hope i gets betterer soon cuz i wanna terrorize my mommi and sinisterss even more! -Monkey
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 29th, 2011, 12:41 AM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
The new food seems to be working, he definitely poos less and is less gassy, however he still acts like he is starving.

Cries his fuzzy little head off when I'm in the kitchen, and when I leave the kitchen he absolutely LOSES it trying to get to where he thinks the food (of which there is none) might be going. This is to the point of running into walls and chairs etc. He does this even if he has JUST eaten...

And if I happen to actually BE getting him his food, or making myself some food... people probably think I am murdering him he cries like he's in pain. And really REALLY loudly, so much so that my neighbours have 'commented' on it.

How long should it take for him to get over this? I realize that it's only been 2 days. I feed him 1/2 can of the Wellness Kitten 4 times a day.

His activity level has stepped up... X 1000.
Earlier this evening, he learned to jump on counters... which is where I WAS feeding Baby Kitty, I guess I will have to stop free feeding her for awhile. Which makes me feel really mean.

It's been a fun night. Trying the tape and tinfoil now, kinda working, not really.

Works for Baby Kitty though. She used to mess around in my plants, not anymore!

I am off tomorrow so I am going to get him weighed. And possibly pick up an SSScat or 10...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 29th, 2011, 01:15 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,277
Has he had a fecal test done to check for tapeworms & roundworms?


Monkey is absolutely adorable
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 29th, 2011, 07:46 AM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
No he has not. He had this
Quote:
The vet didn't seem terribly concerned about his gulping of food and gassiness (I realize now that gulping can = farting).
I told him that sometimes he eats so fast and poos so quickly afterwards that I've seen whole kibbles in his poo. He said, 'well he's been completely dewormed (he was given that new one through the skin on the back of his neck one shot deal thing, the name escapes me atm) and if this doesn't stop in a week or so, we may have to try something else (ominous words those) but some cats are just like that.'


Do you think it's fecal sample time? I am going to phone that holistic vet soon that sugarcatmom rec'd, just wanted to give the food a chance to work first.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 29th, 2011, 10:55 PM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
So he weighs 1.7 lbs.

The very helpful lady at Biscuit & Co. suggested that maybe the reason why he gets so hungry NOW is because he is digesting the canned food a lot faster instead of heavy carbs that kinda hang around. Does that make sense? It kinda does to me but wouldn't that mean he would be pooing more? Because he has totally slowed down in that regard and the smell is a LOT less and his poo is almost normal now. She wasn't preaching it as the gospel truth or anything, just sorta threw it out there.

So does this mean I should feed him more?
She gave me some samples of this Taste of The Wild stuff to try, suggesting that I feed him just a *tiny* amount with his food so he feels fuller longer.

Thoughts? I am really leery of adding anything new right now, especially since I don't know exactly what the problem is.

ETA: I am thinking that was 1.7 KILOGRAMS not pounds. He weighed 1.5 kg at the vet last night.

Last edited by chloe_close; July 31st, 2011 at 10:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 31st, 2011, 10:27 AM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
Exclamation Scary turn for the worse! VERY long, sorry!!

Spent 6 hours in the Animal ER last night, Monkey (my 12 w/o kitten) was VERY ill, I had no idea what was wrong with him. He could have ate something that poisoned him, he could be blocked by something he ate, he could have some horrible disease or God knows what.

Friday night he got into my dog's food (1/4 c. of Orijen dry kibble for dogs) he ate every unenthusiastically Saturday morning around 6am. I tried again around 10 am just before I had to go to work and he would not touch it.

I shouldn't have left him but it was my second day at my new job. When I got home from work around 4 pm, I found clear liquid vomit (one small puddle) on the floor and he was having really bad diarrhea (yellowy and pure liquid) and he was crying when he pooed. He was lethargic and would not eat or drink. About 15 minutes later he started screaming and vomiting what looked like liquid cat food.

He was obviously very dehydrated. I knew how serious this was so I took him to the ER ASAP. Why do my furbabies always go into crisis mode on long weekends? Ollie my 6 y/o kitty went into the ER 2 years ago this long weekend and that did NOT end well.
Many years ago my Cocker Boo-Boo (RIP) tore his cruciate ligament on a long weekend as well.

They took his temp (slightly elevated), did the 'snap back skin test' which I myself had done (not good), checked ears, eyes (third eyelid showing and red) did a very thorough abdominal palpation (noted that he had swelling and felt pain when it was touched, was not farting though. He asked lots of questions, that I wished that I had better answers for.

All in all, I was very comforted by the doctor's diligence and manner.
I had to leave him there for extensive (expensive) tests and IV therapy. He was so pathetic looking and was crying for me, it really REALLY sucked.

When I got home I was wracking my brain trying to think of what went wrong OTHER than the eating of Gracie's food and it just hit me that something unusual DID happen wayyy early yesterday morning. Just before I got into the shower, I put my Crest 3D whitening strips on. I must have forgotten to put them in the trash or someone got them OUT of the trash. Anyways, when I got out of the shower the empty foil pack was on the floor, part of it had been chewed and the little clear plastic card that the bleaching gel strips stick to was on the floor as well.

I wasn't thinking too clearly, got about 3 hours of sleep the night before due to my jerk neighbours partying all night, so I didn't really take note as I should have, figured that the foil was still there so he probably didn't ingest it but he may have licked the gel off the card thingy. That didn't really didn't strike me as likely because I thought it wouldn't be appealing enough for him to actually want to eat it.
Likewise it occurred to me that maybe he ingested some of the tape/or foil that I have all over the apt to keep him from getting up on places and eating things (non-toxic plants and/or other cat's food).

I wish I had remembered this at the vet! It may have made a huge difference. I phoned them right away and told them about it. I feel so horribly guilty right now.


Saw about 30 different people or families with dead/dying/ bleeding/going to be put down pets. EVERYONE was bawling. It was soul crushing. The place was so full most of us were sitting on the floor and crying/hugging/commiserating with random strangers. That has surely been the unhappiest most traumatic place I have ever been.

Incidentally the vet hospital on 38th Avenue and 99th street is closed due to relocating to 56th Ave (Guardian Animal Hospital), which I only found out after driving all the way there with a crying sick Monkey.

Also why do my fur babies always go into crisis mode on a long weekend? It was 2 years ago exactly that Ollie ended up there, and that did not end well. This all seems horribly familiar once again.

They phoned me with initial blood test results around 4am (showed OK) and initial x-rays that indicated some swelling from gas and/or blockage (they couldn't tell what) in his intestine and colon. The place was so full most of us were sitting on the floor. They told me if I hadn't brought him him in likely he would have died.

My latest update on Monkey was at 7:30am this morning:

He is doing "well so far" they tried feeding him at 5:30am and he ate.
If he keeps it down and continues to improve, they will try feeding him around 9:30 and if that works, he may be able to come home around 6pm. So I'm cautiously optimistic...

When I asked him what they fed him, he said they have a "special gastro formula". I Googled that and came up with this.

They said if and when they send him home they will give me some of that to take with me.

Now I need to know if I should keep feeding him that or what? I see it has a lot of no-no's in there (if it's the same one) also I forgot to ask if they fed him canned or dry food. But I can understand the rice thing as it is easily digestible. Also if it keeps him fuller longer maybe I can avoid this incident repeating itself.

Obviously, I am looking for suggestions on a better alternative.

I'm leery of just going back to Wellness Kitten as it didn't seem to fill him up enough. I am aware that I did not get the chance to increase his feeding amounts before this incident happened.

I am so exhausted and drained and feel so guilty.

By the way, this little episode has cost me $1834 so far. That was the high end of the quote, I am not optimistic that I will be refunded anything by them changing it to the the low end price.

Thank you for reading this incredibly long post once again. I am sorry to be bothering you so much!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 31st, 2011, 12:41 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 49,824
You and Monkey have certainly been through the wringer I have no kitty experience so no advice, but I do hope your little cutie rallies enough to come home today and then recovers quickly!
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 31st, 2011, 10:58 PM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
Good news!!

Thank you hazelrunpack.

Monkey is home! And is sound asleep.

Still no exact cause, but he is HOME. YES!!!

He still has a bit of diarrhea but they said that is to be expected for about another 12 hours.

I am to give him one 0.2 mL syringe of metronidazole orally twice a day.

I was given 3 5.82 oz cans of Medi-Cal Gastro Intestinal High Energy Feline food.

The instructions are to feed 1/3 of a can twice a day or smaller amounts more often if I need to. I do this for 5 days and then gradually start mixing it in with his old food.

For obvious reasons I am completely torn as to whether I should actually do this or not.

I AM going to do it unless I hear otherwise, he did almost die after all and I am really freaked out still. So taking this particular vet's advice seems like a good idea, even though the MediCal (Royal Canin heh) has all the bad things in it...
I dunno, I'm just so unsure and afraid to make a wrong step for fear of landing him back in the ER.

I may just do it for now and if after 12 hours he has not stopped with the diarrhea I may switch him back to the Wellness Kitten...

Other than the fact that they were wayyyyy too busy last night (not their fault) I am quite happy with the care he received. So so so much better than my old vet. Also they actually did refund me $800! I was shocked.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old August 1st, 2011, 12:50 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,277
Because of the recent tummy upset & diarrhea I would stick with the Medi-Cal (much as I don't like it) for the 5 days, then do a gradual switch. You don't want a set back by re-upsetting the stomach/intestines while he's getting over it.

Speedy recovery Monkey
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old August 1st, 2011, 05:06 AM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
Thank you!!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old August 1st, 2011, 07:48 AM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,299
I don't see a problem either with feeding the prescription food for a few days. It's when vets insist you feed it to them for life that I take issue.

Hopefully Monkey gets better now! I wonder what the heck is going on inside him. Scary indeed.
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old August 1st, 2011, 07:54 AM
marko's Avatar
marko marko is offline
Administrator - Pet lover
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Montreal Quebec Canada
Posts: 11,074
You are getting fab advice here I just wanted to offer more good vibes
__________________
Please tactfully EDUCATE or IGNORE posters you don't agree with.
Please PM me & Include URLs and post #'s for any issues and it's my pleasure to help.
I'm firm - but fair. Mind the Rules and enjoy your stay.
Newcomers FAQ - How do I post on this BB?
Pet facebook group
Check out the Pet podcast
Follow me on Twitter
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old August 1st, 2011, 11:52 AM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
Thank you guys for all your help and 's!

Happy to report that he is once again up to Monkey Business!

BUT... you just KNEW there was one of those coming didn't you?

1) Baby Kitty
is barely eating now, she IS drinking and ate a few kibbles of Orijin this am. She does not appear lethargic or dehydrated, is not avoiding me but IS quite grouchy, hissing at Monkey and Gracie which is NOT like her at all.

I have tried feeding her the Royal Canin that I have left over, she really loves it usually. Nada. Tried some of the Wellness Kitten I have on hand, which she really loves, nada.

This started Saturday very early in the am, at first I thought maybe she was picking up on my stress, definitely was a HUGE bunch of that going on or missing Monkey.
Now the stress is gone, Monkey is home and she still doesn't want to eat. She ACTS like she does but when I put the stuff in front of her, nada.

Here are my thoughts... that whatever almost killed Monkey is making her vaguely sick as well. Monkey IS on Metronidazole for something...

I phoned the EVEC and they said that likely Monkey does not have anything contagious but perhaps I should bring them both in for even more blood work.
Ummm, no. As long as Baby Kitty is interested in food at least and is still drinking and acting normally I will wait this out for HER.

OR I have a new theory on what might possibly be going on, I use Petcetera and/or CatIt Silica Crystal Litter, I buy it in bulk when it goes on sale.
However the last batch I bought was the Petcetera brand (imo slightly less good than the CatIt) and it was really quite broken up and dusty, much more than usual. There is almost a stream of blue dust that pours out with the white crystals.

Do you think that this is possibly what is wrong? Monkey has loose bowels, not so good at balancing and digging/covering so he ends up with more silica dust on his massive 6 toed paws and ingests more dust than Baby Kitty who is also feeling and acting off. I have 3 litter boxes btw.

Whatever you think of my possibly way out to lunch theory I AM returning the unopened bags to the store. I am also going to try and exchange the Royal Canin for BG or Wellness.

Problem 2) Although Monkey is active and drinking and happy, he doesn't want to eat the Gastro. I was thinking of maybe mixing in a tiny bit of Wellness in with it to see if that would help... Yea or nay?

Should I get a big syringe (read the syringe feeding article) and feed him or her or both with that?
I do NOT want him to go back to the ER. Obviously.

Wouldn't it be funny (not really) if it turns out that Monkey is actually a picky eater after being such a greedy little pig that eats ANYTHING?

I am also going to try and get in ASAP to the Holistic Vet tomorrow.

Thanks again you guys, you have been so patient with me, and my kabillion questions!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old August 1st, 2011, 12:49 PM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
1) Baby Kitty[/B] is barely eating now, she IS drinking and ate a few kibbles of Orijin this am.
Hmmm, not good. Can you try offering her some other types of food, like plain chicken baby food (Heinz brand from Safeway is good), or low sodium canned salmon, lightly broiled chicken breast, etc? Doesn't have to be cat food, just something that will help jump-start her appetite again. Temptations cat treats can also do the trick (just watch out that she doesn't get addicted to them). Sometimes cats get into a vicious circle where they don't eat for a day due to whatever (maybe even stress), but then the empty stomach makes them feel a bit nauseous and now they really don't feel like eating. You want to try to break that cycle by frequently offering small bits of something irresistible until they pick up the slack on their own.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
She does not appear lethargic or dehydrated, is not avoiding me but IS quite grouchy, hissing at Monkey and Gracie which is NOT like her at all.
Could be that the vet smell on Monkey has caused her to feel anxious and she's lashing out at everyone in defence. Time should help with that, but also try offering everyone treats when they're together to disperse the tension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
I phoned the EVEC and they said that likely Monkey does not have anything contagious but perhaps I should bring them both in for even more blood work.
How do they know? Have they determined what it was that made Monkey sick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
As long as Baby Kitty is interested in food at least and is still drinking and acting normally I will wait this out for HER.
If she acts interested in the food but still doesn't eat it, that sounds possibly like she's nauseous. Does she lick her lips frequently, especially when she smells food?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
OR I have a new theory on what might possibly be going on, I use Petcetera and/or CatIt Silica Crystal Litter, I buy it in bulk when it goes on sale.
However the last batch I bought was the Petcetera brand (imo slightly less good than the CatIt) and it was really quite broken up and dusty, much more than usual. There is almost a stream of blue dust that pours out with the white crystals.
Uh-oh. Hard to know if the litter is the cause of the current problems you're having, but I do have to say that the silica litters are not the best choice for cats, ESPECIALLY when they're dusty like that. The inhalation and ingestion hazard they pose is significant. Glad to hear that you're returning the other bags. I personally prefer the plant based litters like World's Best (corn) or Feline Pine or Feline Fresh (both pine based), or if clumping isn't a top priority, Healthy Pet Dust Free Fibre litter is really good. Lots of people like Swheat Scoop (wheat-based) but I thought it smelled funny and really gummed up the litter box, making it hard to clean.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
Problem 2) Although Monkey is active and drinking and happy, he doesn't want to eat the Gastro. I was thinking of maybe mixing in a tiny bit of Wellness in with it to see if that would help... Yea or nay?
The food ain't gonna do any good if he doesn't eat, so I would feed him what he will eat. You can mix the Wellness in, or sprinkle the top with some freeze-dried 100% meat treats like PureBites or Halo Liv-a-Littles. A more natural way to deal with GI issues is to mix 1/4 tsp of slippery elm bark powder into some wet food a couple times a day. It's soothing to the lining of the intestinal tract, as well as helping balance moisture levels in the feces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
Should I get a big syringe (read the syringe feeding article) and feed him or her or both with that?
Unless you have very docile cats, syringe feeding is way to stressful and should be a last resort, IMO. I'd try different foods first, then treats, then if necessary an appetite stimulant if nothing else works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chloe_close View Post
I am also going to try and get in ASAP to the Holistic Vet tomorrow.
Good luck! Hopefully they have some suggestions.
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old August 1st, 2011, 04:18 PM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
Hmmm, not good. <snip>
Sometimes cats get into a vicious circle where they don't eat for a day due to whatever (maybe even stress), but then the empty stomach makes them feel a bit nauseous and now they really don't feel like eating. You want to try to break that cycle by frequently offering small bits of something irresistible until they pick up the slack on their own.

Good news (sorta) on this front, I brought home BG canned (1, 2 and 3) and fed her the Salmon #2. She ate a bit. She was licking earlier, seems not to be now. I also bought Halo Spot's Stew several different flavours just in case. So hopefully THAT is resolved. I will get some slippery elm too, I know I've seen it a few different times at one of the 1000 stores I've been to over the past week, lol!


Could be that the vet smell on Monkey has caused her to feel anxious and she's lashing out at everyone in defence. Time should help with that, but also try offering everyone treats when they're together to disperse the tension.

Thanks for the tip. I hope that it will resolve soon, poor lil' Monkey is all YAYYY let's playyyy! And Baby Kitty's having none of it.


How do they know? Have they determined what it was that made Monkey sick?

Good question. no they did not, not conclusively anyways. I guess this is something I still have to worry about. Hopefully the new vet will be able to help with that.


<snip>
Uh-oh. Hard to know if the litter is the cause of the current problems you're having, but I do have to say that the silica litters are not the best choice for cats, ESPECIALLY when they're dusty like that. The inhalation and ingestion hazard they pose is significant. Glad to hear that you're returning the other bags. I personally prefer the plant based litters like World's Best (corn) or Feline Pine or Feline Fresh (both pine based), or if clumping isn't a top priority, Healthy Pet Dust Free Fibre litter is really good. Lots of people like Swheat Scoop (wheat-based) but I thought it smelled funny and really gummed up the litter box, making it hard to clean.


I came home with Petcetera Bentonite
Oops. TBH though I am pretty sure they didn't have Feline Fresh there. Not a fan of the corn one or the Swheat one but I only bought small amounts so if it is no good I will get something else you rec'd next.
I also bought Nature's Miracle No Tracking Paper but I haven't opened it yet. I put a tiny bit of the open bag of CatIt brand on the bottom of 2 litter boxes and covered it w/ 3" of the bentonite. The last one I just used bentonite (also the one that both of them use the most ) with baking soda on the bottom. It's GOT to be better than the silica stuff.



The food ain't gonna do any good if he doesn't eat, so I would feed him what he will eat. <snippity>

More good news, I mixed in a bit of BG with it and he ate. Normally.


Unless you have very docile cats, syringe feeding is way to stressful and should be a last resort, IMO. I'd try different foods first, then treats, then if necessary an appetite stimulant if nothing else works.

Good to know, last resort. Check.


Good luck! Hopefully they have some suggestions.

Thanks!
To encourage drinking, I also bought a water fountain at Petcetera, the CatIt one is on sale for $19.99 and the pink one, which I bought, of course, is a breast cancer donation thing. Monkey likes it, Baby Kitty not so much, but she ONLY drinks with her right paw and likes to splash around in the big bowl I have for her first before she drinks so whatever. It was mainly to make sure HE stays hydrated.

I'm feeling all smart again cuz I did this before I got your message, it appears that I am learning. Maybe.

You rock sugarcatmom!!! so very very much.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old August 2nd, 2011, 12:56 PM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
Bad night last night

Monkey Update: Bad night last night. Was up 3x with him due to crying/ vomiting. Would not eat today.

Just got back from the vet, could not get into Holistic Vet until next week!!

So I took him to Ottewell Vet Clinic and I was really impressed. REALLY.

Dr. Pattie was awesome, I highly recommend this place, staff was very friendly and understanding, Dr. was very thorough, explained very clearly what the steps should be etc. Did not try to push more tests or food on me, I really liked her a lot.

She injected fluids subcutaneously (he did NOT care for that) and reviewed the stuff the ER did.

Sent me home with some FortiFlora (good bacteria to put in his food). Told me to boil a chicken breast and feed him tiny bits of broth with the FF sprinkled in until he stops with the vomiting and diarrhea.

I have to take him back later today for more fluids. Doing it this way is MUCH cheaper than IV therapy and at least he gets to be at home. Soooo exhausted right now I can barely function.

Some good news: Baby Kitty ate well this morning and seems to have come around on the Monkey front, when he starting crying/screaming in the night BOTH of us jumped out of bed and ran to him, she seemed just as concerned as I was.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old August 2nd, 2011, 01:06 PM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,299
Awww, poor Monkey just can't seem to get a break! I hope the FortiFlora helps. I do wonder if he's eaten something he shouldn't have and it's still causing some irritation or who knows what. One of my cats is a power-chewer and will eat pretty much anything that fits in his mouth. I'm lucky in that he tends to barf up whatever it is a few days later, but I worry about what sorts of things he may be accumulating in that bottomless pit of his.

Great that Baby Kitty is eating again. You certainly don't need to be dealing with 2 sick kitties!
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old August 2nd, 2011, 10:23 PM
chloe_close chloe_close is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 36
Thank you , yes it is a HUGE relief that Baby Kitty seems fine now. She looks a fair bit thinner which bothers me. Still a little cranky as well.

Monkey is doing okay on the broth thing, does the FortiFlora have a taste? Because if it's just broth with that in it he really doesn't want to eat/drink it. He's supposed to get a package a day (tiny little bag) but I don't know if that's going to happen. She also suggested yogurt. But I think I'll stick with what we've got going on for now.

I put in a tiny, TINY amount of the boiled chicken breast and rice in it (as Dr. Pattie suggested) every once and awhile and he likes that a lot more. Still feeding him only about a tsp. every hour or so.
He was even good with the syringe thing (yeah I had to resort to that a couple times at first, unfortunately. The ER vet gave them to me this morning when I went to pick up his file and x-rays).

I had him wrapped up really good in a blankie and facing away from me on my lap and he didn't fight it.
I think that's just a testament to how cruddy he was feeling, that he 'tolerated' it so well. At least I know I can do it again if I have to.

Thanks again for all your help and support.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 8.33%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:50 PM.